But what will they do about the gap between the Bull and Cullis?
Maybe seats in lower tier on the corner then solid wall or big screen in upper tier - works well at Ibrox
But what will they do about the gap between the Bull and Cullis?
To get rid of the crank in the upper tier, you’d have to build a thin, angled structure up from the ground behind the new lower tier, in front of upper tier to create a flat line at the level of the first seats of the upper tier. If you look at my rough sketch above, you can see the shape required. In practice this would likely be the rear part of the new lower tier and incorporate the front of the new hospitality area. Then on top of the existing upper tier, bolt on a frame that would start at the rear of the new straight lower tier rear, and continue backwards, filling in the hollow created by the existing crank. New gangway entrances would be created in this frame, linking back to the existing gangways behind. At the top, this new straight upper tier would then extend a little further back in the middle of the stand to meet the rear cranked line of the stand. Essentially the old upper tier would be buried under this new straight upper tier. Then you’d modify the roof to extend the middle part so that the front of the roof was straight, matching the new lower tier.No idea how you could possibly get rid of the 'crank'. The entire structure is built that way. I think you would just end up either replicating the crank in the lower, or building it straight amd leaving a gap between the middle seats and the upper tier. Not ideal, but not a massive issue. I'd imagine any changes to the roof would massively add to the cost, so I can't see the quadrant being finished. Not actually sure how they'd do it anyway in that corner as even JL1 had to go, so presumably they can't build it all the eay down?
What is a 'crank' and when is the work to demolish the lower section of the Steve Bull stand starting?
Someone who spends too much time debating something that won't happen.What is a 'crank' and when is the work to demolish the lower section of the Steve Bull stand starting?
Can't help thinking you've made that sound much easier than it really is. For example is this something like the temporary stand in terms of the walkways, you surely couldn't build it in concrete like the other stands? I can't see how you'd build it up straight without the back line joining the ends of the current stand, losing a load of seats in the middle. You'd also probably have to provide more room per seat negating any gain from the lower. Massively problematic and needing an expensive bespoke solution, or just leave a small gap...To get rid of the crank in the upper tier, you’d have to build a thin, angled structure up from the ground behind the new lower tier, in front of upper tier to create a flat line at the level of the first seats of the upper tier. If you look at my rough sketch above, you can see the shape required. In practice this would likely be the rear part of the new lower tier and incorporate the front of the new hospitality area. Then on top of the existing upper tier, bolt on a frame that would start at the rear of the new straight lower tier rear, and continue backwards, filling in the hollow created by the existing crank. New gangway entrances would be created in this frame, linking back to the existing gangways behind. At the top, this new straight upper tier would then extend a little further back in the middle of the stand to meet the rear cranked line of the stand. Essentially the old upper tier would be buried under this new straight upper tier. Then you’d modify the roof to extend the middle part so that the front of the roof was straight, matching the new lower tier.
If you were to then look down at the stand from above, you’d see the same rear line at the back of the SBU as today, but the front of both the upper and lower tiers would be straight, and the lower tier would end closer to the pitch.
Can't help thinking you've made that sound much easier than it really is. For example is this something like the temporary stand in terms of the walkways, you surely couldn't build it in concrete like the other stands? I can't see how you'd build it up straight without the back line joining the ends of the current stand, losing a load of seats in the middle. You'd also probably have to provide more room per seat negating any gain from the lower. Massively problematic and needing an expensive bespoke solution, or just leave a small gap...
Given Liverpool’s main stand dev came in at 110m and the smaller anfield road is now 80m, i’m hoping the 19m is not the whole lot.. It wont go very far these days !IMO I'm not expecting a new SBS roof for the £19 Mill figures being quoted
Given Liverpool’s main stand dev came in at 110m and the smaller anfield road is now 80m, i’m hoping the 19m is not the whole lot.. It wont go very far these days !
This is all purely academic I think, but surely you're not far off doubling the weight of the structure if you're going to build it in concrete. So a 45 year old concrete base with a significant increase in loading, that sounds unlikely to me (not a structural engineer). The steel works would be substantial if they had to take the load and transfer it down. Anyway, even the simple version is quite unlikely IMO, the idea we're going to rebuild the upper tier and the roof, basically just using the basic concrete support sounds like it might be more expensive than starting from scratch!The steelwork would all be custom, but manufactured off site using precise measurements to a 3d design to achieve the end result described. It’s not a temporary structure and wouldn’t feel like one. You create an entirely new upper tier seating deck and gangways out of steel and poured concrete, just like they did building the north bank. The only difference, is that it’s sitting on top of the old core, so it doesn’t need to be demolished first. That assumes that structurally the old core is sound and can take the additional weight. That’s something for structural engineers to determine.
At the back of the new upper tier, because the new deck is straight, but the rear wall cranked, you’d end up with a few extra rows at the back of the middle (eg J4 to J7) which do not run from one end of the stand to the other.
Because the deck is new, then the pitch could be improved to match modern stadiums. While this means less seats per sq metre, remember that the new upper tier is also bigger in surface area, since the middle of the front rows would be much further forward, but the rear would be where it is today. Hence the same number of seats could be incorporated. In fact when Russell talks about adding 1100 seats, he may mean in total across the whole stand rather than just in the lower tier.
As for the NE Quad. They may just leave that as is. Or they could modify the Steve Bull roof to remove the sight line restrictions on some of the upper seats, freeing up a little capacity there. It’s also possible that they could take advantage of such roof work to build a small extension to the side of the Steve Bull Upper to fill in the gap to the NE Quad. It needn’t have anything below the seating deck, with fans just accessing from the J1 gangway. Different to what Morgan planned to finish the quad, but would also work.
Thanks SW. better manage expectations then. Definitely more repair shop than Grand Designs.. ) Not my area of expertise but thought just the internal fit out of a huge stand like the Steve Bull would consume a lot of that budget unless they are shopping in the outlets.It is the whole lot. Russell said it covered the 9 point plan they have in mind.
The Anfield work is on a whole different scale. That’s basically building a new stand behind the existing stand and integrating that into the old stand. Work described on the Steve Bull would be almost the opposite really. Replacing the small, cheap bit at the front, and then renovating the rest. The end result could still look quite different, and almost like a new stand, but it would mostly be the same Steve Bull stand underneath.
This is all purely academic I think, but surely you're not far off doubling the weight of the structure if you're going to build it in concrete. So a 45 year old concrete base with a significant increase in loading, that sounds unlikely to me (not a structural engineer). The steel works would be substantial if they had to take the load and transfer it down. Anyway, even the simple version is quite unlikely IMO, the idea we're going to rebuild the upper tier and the roof, basically just using the basic concrete support sounds like it might be more expensive than starting from scratch!
Remember how long it took to replace a very simple temporary stand!
Thanks SW. better manage expectations then. Definitely more repair shop than Grand Designs.. ) Not my area of expertise but thought just the internal fit out of a huge stand like the Steve Bull would consume a lot of that budget unless they are shopping in the outlets.
That Steve Bull Lower Tier looks sorted!Breaking News
Wolves have bought in a crack team of architects, with experiece of football stadium design, to re-model the Molineux.
With no expense spared, the detailed plans outlined at the recent Ask Wolves event have already been turned into a detailed model.
View attachment 28240
Yes prob along the lines of North Bank WV1 barThere are 2 big points that most people seem to be missing with all this. Part of the new lower tier will not be a permanent structure and removable for events like gigs.
So it's either retractable or a temporary stand similar to the Graham Hughes.
Plus the fact that it sounds like they will use J1 to J3 as the away section. 1/3 of a 10k seater stand gives the full allocation so there will be no way that the corporate areas will be part of this.
Maybe the way they level things off to make it flush to the pitch is by having the corporate area in the middle of the stand.
Again, these won't be boxes
Hmmm!.. Not sure about that North Bank roof keeping anyone in NL2 Dry... Before you build it, could you buy a 50p bottle of water and carry out a few simple tests?Breaking News
Wolves have bought in a crack team of architects, with experiece of football stadium design, to re-model the Molineux.
With no expense spared, the detailed plans outlined at the recent Ask Wolves event have already been turned into a detailed model.
View attachment 28240
Indeed, unless I’m missing something it may well end up looking like a dogs dinner. The ground needed a comprehensive redevelopment- looks like that will never happen and the NB will always look odd.The Steve Bull stand needs to be to the profile of the Stan Cullis stand. I don’t see how this would work and all seem mismatched
Yes prob along the lines of North Bank WV1 bar
Can you imagine - pay for expensive corporate seats and you have the sun in your eyes all the match and sunburn!There are 2 big points that most people seem to be missing with all this. Part of the new lower tier will not be a permanent structure and removable for events like gigs.
So it's either retractable or a temporary stand similar to the Graham Hughes.
Plus the fact that it sounds like they will use J1 to J3 as the away section. 1/3 of a 10k seater stand gives the full allocation so there will be no way that the corporate areas will be part of this.
Maybe the way they level things off to make it flush to the pitch is by having the corporate area in the middle of the stand.
Again, these won't be boxes
Free visor with every seatCan you imagine - pay for expensive corporate seats and you have the sun in your eyes all the match and sunburn!
There are 2 big points that most people seem to be missing with all this. Part of the new lower tier will not be a permanent structure and removable for events like gigs.
So it's either retractable or a temporary stand similar to the Graham Hughes.
Plus the fact that it sounds like they will use J1 to J3 as the away section. 1/3 of a 10k seater stand gives the full allocation so there will be no way that the corporate areas will be part of this.
Maybe the way they level things off to make it flush to the pitch is by having the corporate area in the middle of the stand.
Again, these won't be boxes
All of that makes perfect sense Until you realise Jeff paid 36 million for Silva ?????Well, it's their money, not ours. On the one hand, yes, Fosun themselves have the money to pay 50m right now and get the Steve Bull and South Bank done. And then convert that debt to equity the same way they did recently with the 100+ million. But what is the value to them in doing that? increasing the equity would really only benefit them if/when they sell. The very fact they have such money on the first place is because they make smart investments. And applying to be involved in a 2028 bid would mean getting access to outside funding, and not needing to stump up the cash themselves, which is smart.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Fosun did exactly what you suggest. If I won 100 million on the euro millions tomorrow, I'd be straight on the phone to Jeff offering to fund it, because I'm a Wolves fan and heart-over-head. But I don't think it's fair to read anything into their commitment levels for not doing it, when they have clear and proven business models.
All of that makes perfect sense Until you realise Jeff paid 36 million for Silva ?????
Good luck with that! I'll give it another five years before it's considered an overused argument.People really need to let go of that
Even if Silva never makes it and is given away at then end of his contract (and better judges tgan me think the jury is still out), I still reckon you'd struggle to find a top half Prem team that didn't spend £30+m in a player who turned out to be a flop. Everton could probably name an XI. I think the main issues with Fabio are the suspicions that Jeff was involved and that we were somehow 'doing Mendes a favour'.Good luck with that! I'll give it another five years before it's considered an overused argument.
Everyone just needs to look at it differently. Especially with sales amongst mendes clubs. We will get favours and also have to repay these favours.Even if Silva never makes it and is given away at then end of his contract (and better judges tgan me think the jury is still out), I still reckon you'd struggle to find a top half Prem team that didn't spend £30+m in a player who turned out to be a flop. Everton could probably name an XI. I think the main issues with Fabio are the suspicions that Jeff was involved and that we were somehow 'doing Mendes a favour'.
They’re still saying it’s too expensive to replace our 32” ‘big’ screens. There are literally non-league clubs with bigger.Christ alive.
We’re a top flight elite football club, charging top dollar for tickets. We’re acting like we’re saving up for a sodding conservatory.
I thinks Jones was (maybe deliberately or perhaps not) mixing up the idea of “match day experience” and “match atmosphere” .They’re still saying it’s too expensive to replace our 32” ‘big’ screens. There are literally non-league clubs with bigger.
You can’t see or hear anything in the ground. And yet Jones is surprised people don’t think the matchday experience is any good.
I was thinking this too. The height of the 'new' Steve Bull lower could only be high enough to allow the first row of the current Steve Bull upper tier an unobstructed view of the near-side touchline, which means the 'new' lower tier would probably be only half as tall as the Stan Cullis lower tier.I was looking at the drawings back from 2010, in those designs the ‘height and angle of the lower tier of the Stan Cullis is replicated along the ‘new’ Steve Bull stand.
The height of the Stan Cullis Lower is significantly more than the Lower Tier of the current Steve Bull.
Do we think the ‘9 point plan’ will have the same effect?
@WwFC @Russell Jones - Can you please publish pictures please?
Blame whoever is in charge of the mixer that is an easy fix. Its basically twisting a few nobs.I am not quite sure how they managed it, whether it was a special order, but the North Bank tannoy system seems to have been specifically designed to make any music blisteringly loud to the ears yet all speech and announcements an unintelligible mass of mumbling
About 100 of those posts are people saying what you’ve just repeated!Over 3000 posts on a subject that Fosun don't care about. What we've got is the best we're going to get so you can all forget any ground improvements.