Do we deserve to be classed big enough for PL

[SmokeyGB]

While sitting in a caravan and a monsoon outside, I was thinking.

Do we deserve to be classed big enough for PL??

Reason for thinking behind this question was that when we were promoted the media and fans included were saying Wolves back where they belong, but after 3 years i don't think we do belong there.
We are in our current rightful place in league below.
Yes yes we could go on history of a club, but some other clubs done bigger/better things than us and not there and some bigger stature clubs

Leeds, Forest, Derby, (Recently Middleboro euro cup finals and fa league cup finals) Sheff Wed/United.

A Team like Wigan do belong in the top flight (7 season on a spin)....

So until the top men at WWFC really want to make a fist of it we can say we not as big as we think we are.

 

[Lycanthrope]

It amazes me the amount of Wolves fans around who think we're the equivalant of Crystal Palace in stature.

Read some history and open your eyes. Wolves are not just a big club, it's an institution.

 

[SmokeyGB]

It amazes me the amount of Wolves fans around who think we're the equivalant of Crystal Palace in stature.

Read some history (I know my history) and open your eyes. Wolves are not just a big club, it's an institution.

So what, Does not answers the question put out. PNE were massive one time but are now struggling in league 1.

I did not put us on a level of C.Palace and I have opened my eyes to current state of Football and can admit to myself, were are at a level were we belong until the club try and move to the next level.

 

[PeteWolf]

Every club deserves to be where they are due to what they've done on the pitch. Currently we're a Championship club because of McCarthy and Connor's failure to build/coach the team to a sufficient quality to stay up.

Whether we're bigger and historically more successful than other clubs currently in the premier league is another question, to which the answer is that we are.

 

[WalsallWolf]

Every club deserves to be where they are due to what they've done on the pitch. Currently we're a Championship club because of McCarthy and Connor's failure to build/coach the team to a sufficient quality to stay up.

Whether we're bigger and historically more successful than other clubs currently in the premier league is another question, to which the answer is that we are.

Correct, very well summed up.

 

[Lycanthrope]

So what, Does not answers the question put out. PNE were massive one time but are now struggling in league 1.

I did not put us on a level of C.Palace and I have opened my eyes to current state of Football and can admit to myself, were are at a level were we belong until the club try and move to the next level.

Even if PNE were successfull now they would never be as big as us. Their crowds would still be relatively small with nowhere near the same excitement created in the surrounding area(s) of where the club is based. For an example of that look at Blackburn Rovers in 95.

 

[Tring Wolf]

Are we big enough? Yes. Our achievements, history and fanbase mean that we are one of the great names of English football.

Unfortunately, on the playing side we simply weren't good enough last season and as PeteWolf says, you ultimately end up in the division that you deserve.

 

[Deleted member 4099]

From a supporter and history basis we are a top 10.On the pitch we got relegated so yes we're a championship club. What is the point of this thread?

 

[HUGEWolf]

Criteria to be classed as a PL club...

1. Amass enough points to get promoted from the Championship.
2. Amass enough points to finish 17th or above in the PL every season.

We failed to complete point 2 last season, so we are not in the PL. Simple.

 

[It's Mixu Paatelainen]

Every club deserves to be where they are due to what they've done on the pitch. Currently we're a Championship club because of McCarthy and Connor's failure to build/coach the team to a sufficient quality to stay up.

Whether we're bigger and historically more successful than other clubs currently in the premier league is another question, to which the answer is that we are.

Absolutely right

 

[SmokeyGB]

From a supporter and history basis we are a top 10.On the pitch we got relegated so yes we're a championship club. What is the point of this thread?

The point is of thread is " Do we deserve to be classed big enough for PL "
Yes - Why ? and what reason to back it up
No - Why ?

Only 20 clubs can be in it. But how do you base which clubs always gets the tag ' Rightful place in the PL ' - We hear it given to so many teams.
Idea is not to get into a slagging match with other posters, just the above

 

[reanswolf]

No unfortunately, the last 3 seasons have shown us to be a championship club and thats how most people view us now.

 

[Metal Wolf89]

I think we do, I mean we have the fan base and a potential 50,000 seater stadium. Sadly though we do not have the players.

 

[Jungleee]

Yes, we're by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen.

 

[welshy]

I think we do, I mean we have the fan base and a potential 50,000 seater stadium. Sadly though we do not have the players.

Sorry but we do not have the potential to regularly fill a 50,000 seater stadium, unless we of course sell walk in tickets at around a fiver.

 

[WalsallWolf]

Nobody has a rightful place. You have to earn that place. Personally I cringe at the term "back where they belong" when used in promotion. It almost insults the achievement and that kind of pressure has led to us going from a big sized club (before the 80s) to sadly a small-medium sized club in the eyes of the footballing world as sadly the game has moved on unbelievably in the past 30-40 years and although it is credited still, obviously, but the game pre-official Premier League almost fails to exist.

Potentially because of our following and finances we could go allot further than 5-6 clubs in the PL as we speak but right now we are not a big club.

 

[WalsallWolf]

I think we do, I mean we have the fan base and a potential 50,000 seater stadium. Sadly though we do not have the players.

If you think we could fill a 50,000 seater stadium just because of the plans afoot then you are very naive.

If we sustained a level of success in the PL over a long term period we would manage 35-40,000 but nothing more.

 

[Bankswolf II]

Sorry but we do not have the potential to regularly fill a 50,000 seater stadium, unless we of course sell walk in tickets at around a fiver.

Given the area and the social climate we dont at the minute but dont forget how many were wearing the old gold in the play off final

I think we have a lot of fans just a lot of them got disillusioned quickly with the team and our style of play that plus money makes going to a game not the number one priority

 

[WonderWolf]

Of course we are big enough!.....in fact, bigger than half the teams in the GL!

It just that the decision makers haven't got it right yet.

 

[PeteWolf]

There's probably only 3-4 clubs in the country that could average 50,000+ with current ticket prices (United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs) unless they were achieving notable success (in which case add Chelsea, Everton and Newcastle, maybe Sunderland and Leeds as well), but that's what brings crowds in.

If we were doing well at the top end of the league we could average 35-40,000 and at a push sell out 45-50k for big games. That's about it though. Realistically if we're to finish this ground off, 38k will be suitable in the medium term. Big enough for top flight averages, and not too small for the big games.

 

[reanswolf]

Our successful history is becoming more and more distant, our fanbase is diminishing and largely dormant. I suspect we have a similar potential fanbase to most other midland clubs except villa who are bigger.

 

[Metal Wolf89]

Sorry but we do not have the potential to regularly fill a 50,000 seater stadium, unless we of course sell walk in tickets at around a fiver.

If you think we could fill a 50,000 seater stadium just because of the plans afoot then you are very naive.

If we sustained a level of success in the PL over a long term period we would manage 35-40,000 but nothing more.

Given the area and the social climate we dont at the minute but dont forget how many were wearing the old gold in the play off final

I think we have a lot of fans just a lot of them got disillusioned quickly with the team and our style of play that plus money makes going to a game not the number one priority

I honestly believe with the right marketing and PR we could fill a 50,000 seater stadium. That's if we were established in the premier league though.

 

[welshy]

Given the area and the social climate we dont at the minute but dont forget how many were wearing the old gold in the play off final

I think we have a lot of fans just a lot of them got disillusioned quickly with the team and our style of play that plus money makes going to a game not the number one priority

Can't really base the play off final as a guide to see how many fans we could get into molineux on a weekly basis, every wolves fan and his dog tried to get to Cardiff that bank holiday.

The current financial climate doesn't help but I don't think it's put off 25,000 fans turning up every week.

Our style of play did put off fans last season, we could usually get a solid 28,000 before fans started to get $$$$ed off with the way we were playing, if we were playing well and the financial state were better we would possibly be looking at 35,000.

 

[Lycanthrope]

And I see people have no idea how large our support base really is either.

 

[welshy]

And I see people have no idea how large our support base really is either.

What do you mean ?

Explain.

 

[WalsallWolf]

And I see people have no idea how large our support base really is either.

Please enlighten me to this?

I cant stand it when i hear about this huge fanbase. FFS, we have averaged no more than 27,000 for the past 25 years. Some of those years considerably less. Do people seem to think once we get back to "where we belong" (that is a big IF anyway) we are going to get 30,000 passionate Wolves fans rise from there graves?

 

[Metal Wolf89]

Please enlighten me to this?

I cant stand it when i hear about this huge fanbase. FFS, we have averaged no more than 27,000 for the past 25 years. Some of those years considerably less. Do people seem to think once we get back to "where we belong" (that is a big IF anyway) we are going to get 30,000 passionate Wolves fans rise from there graves?

No the wood work.

 

[NewarkWolf]

We don't deserve to be there. You make your own luck and get what you deserve.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Please enlighten me to this?

I cant stand it when i hear about this huge fanbase. FFS, we have averaged no more than 27,000 for the past 25 years. Some of those years considerably less. Do people seem to think once we get back to "where we belong" (that is a big IF anyway) we are going to get 30,000 passionate Wolves fans rise from there graves?

It's happened at other clubs so why on earth do you think it couldn;t happen here?

You think Newcastle were getting 50k every week in 1990?

 

[NewarkWolf]

Possibly not but their catchment area has always been there. If the team was successful the fans turned up in droves! We can be as successful but we will neve reach over 35k IMO due to the other clubs in our region and of course the big boys

 

[reanswolf]

It's happened at other clubs so why on earth do you think it couldn;t happen here?

You think Newcastle were getting 50k every week in 1990?

No, but they are getting 50000 every week without even doing particularly well. We cant sell 25000 home tickets unless we do special offers.

 

[WalsallWolf]

It's happened at other clubs so why on earth do you think it couldn;t happen here?

You think Newcastle were getting 50k every week in 1990?

Worse example you could have used. Newcastle is in the perfect area for it to attract support and also the fact that we don't come close to there size and never will.

 

[Lycanthrope]

16K average in 1990?

Did 30K 'rise from the dead' then?

We've got an entire City to draw support from plus a huge hinterland with no proffesional clubs. Seriously, it amazes me and saddens me equally to see how some of our fans view our club.

 

[PeteWolf]

It's happened at other clubs so why on earth do you think it couldn;t happen here?

You think Newcastle were getting 50k every week in 1990?

We won't pull 50k through the doors again unless we are in and around the Champions League/title positions.

Don't make the mistake of looking at crowds in the 50s and thinking that was a comparable time to today. That was an era where entertainment options were considerably less, not to mention the lack of personal transport around.

We've always been safely in the third tier of clubs when it comes to crowds, even during the 80s when people who like to take the $$$$ (Albion fans mostly) fail to realise that such was the demise of football throughout the country, even in Division Four we were averaging more than a number of top flight clubs.

The way I see it for maximum averages for a season that their fans would expect to be average (i.e. not chasing the title (except for the tier 1 clubs))

Tier 1: 50,000+ Man Utd. Liverpool. Arsenal. Spurs.

Tier 2: 38,000-45,000. Chelsea. Man City. Leeds*. Newcastle. Everton. Sunderland* Villa* (*being generous)

Tier 3: 28,000-35,000. Sheffield Wednesday. Wolves. Nottingham Forest. Derby. Leicester. West Ham. Birmingham.

Tier 4: 24,000-28,000. Albion. Blackburn. Bolton. Stoke. Middlesbrough. Southampton. Portsmouth. Sheffield United. Norwich. Ipswich.

I think that's pretty definitive.

 

[reanswolf]

Wheres the evidence we can pull similar gates? Our highest average gate was 29000 when we first came back up. When we finished 6th in the top flight in 1980 we only averaged 25000, same in 1970's when finishing 4th we only averaged about 30,000. You have to go way back to see 40-50000 gates with any sort of regularity.

Yes we need to to do better to attract fans, but dont believe this "sleeping giant" nonsense about us. 36000 is a good sized capacity for us "if" we are competing in the top flight with better ticket prices.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

At least we're not 'a sleeping giant' anymore - that phrase (usually uttered by new managers/players) used to really $$$$ me off. I do think, by most measures, we are one of the 20 biggest clubs in the country so if/when we get promoted it will be fair to say 'we are back where we belong'. However at this precise moment in time based on last season's performances we are rightfully where we belong - in the 2nd tier.

 

[reanswolf]

We won't pull 50k through the doors again unless we are in and around the Champions League/title positions.

Don't make the mistake of looking at crowds in the 50s and thinking that was a comparable time to today. That was an era where entertainment options were considerably less, not to mention the lack of personal transport around.

We've always been safely in the third tier of clubs when it comes to crowds, even during the 80s when people who like to take the $$$$ (Albion fans mostly) fail to realise that such was the demise of football throughout the country, even in Division Four we were averaging more than a number of top flight clubs.

The way I see it for maximum averages for a season that their fans would expect to be average (i.e. not chasing the title (except for the tier 1 clubs))

Tier 1: 50,000+ Man Utd. Liverpool. Arsenal. Spurs.

Tier 2: 38,000-45,000. Chelsea. Man City. Leeds*. Newcastle. Everton. Sunderland* Villa* (*being generous)

Tier 3: 28,000-35,000. Sheffield Wednesday. Wolves. Nottingham Forest. Derby. Leicester. West Ham. Birmingham.

Tier 4: 24,000-28,000. Albion. Blackburn. Bolton. Stoke. Middlesbrough. Southampton. Portsmouth. Sheffield United. Norwich. Ipswich.

I think that's pretty definitive.

Good appraisal in my opinion, tho i would say Saints, Boro (often got 34000 in prem), norwich and ipswich in same bracket as us. Palace too potentially, if they ever do/did well.

 

[SimplyTheWolves]

I think you may have the answer to your question in your own post SmokeyGB. And if people keep comparing us with the likes of Derby, Forest, Middlesbrough, Sheffield Utd/Wed etc. then they really don’t know the history of our club. In the few you mentioned above I would class only Leeds as possibly more deserving to be classed big enough for the Prem than us, but if they don't go up in the next few years or so then even that's questionable.

I can understand why you’ve asked the question SmokeyGB, but I can assure you that this club is far more deserving to be classed big enough for the Premier league than a lot of clubs that reside in it now. Yes we’ve been out of the top league for many a year in the last 25/30 years or so but in a way that just makes you realise how big a club we are, as many people still perceived us as a big club during this time, even when we were in Division four.

How many other clubs could have had our recent history and still be classed a big club? Not many, I reckon even some of the so called big guns of today couldn't go through a period as we had and still be regarded as a big club as we were, and still are.

Without doubt we deserve to be classed as big enough for the Premier league, absolutely no question.

 

[WonderWolf]

Petey and Reano have it spot on.

We ain’t massive but when the Moxter gets us 'up there but not up to Manyoo level' as stated, we can get possibly get a bit bigger.

 

[WalsallWolf]

We won't pull 50k through the doors again unless we are in and around the Champions League/title positions.

Don't make the mistake of looking at crowds in the 50s and thinking that was a comparable time to today. That was an era where entertainment options were considerably less, not to mention the lack of personal transport around.

We've always been safely in the third tier of clubs when it comes to crowds, even during the 80s when people who like to take the $$$$ (Albion fans mostly) fail to realise that such was the demise of football throughout the country, even in Division Four we were averaging more than a number of top flight clubs.

The way I see it for maximum averages for a season that their fans would expect to be average (i.e. not chasing the title (except for the tier 1 clubs))

Tier 1: 50,000+ Man Utd. Liverpool. Arsenal. Spurs.

Tier 2: 38,000-45,000. Chelsea. Man City. Leeds*. Newcastle. Everton. Sunderland* Villa* (*being generous)

Tier 3: 28,000-35,000. Sheffield Wednesday. Wolves. Nottingham Forest. Derby. Leicester. West Ham. Birmingham.

Tier 4: 24,000-28,000. Albion. Blackburn. Bolton. Stoke. Middlesbrough. Southampton. Portsmouth. Sheffield United. Norwich. Ipswich.

I think that's pretty definitive.

Tier 3 and 4 can be in the same bracket. Give or take 1 or 2 thousand the examples you have used are all the same size as us, and I include Albion & Stoke in that.