Bust up

[lobodelsur]

Whether the board back will Bruno’s hard line with the players or fire him is the crucial point to be played out.

Its going to be interesting.
Fosun are trying to grow the Wolves 'brand'. But brands only work as a (perceived) reflection of success and style - think Ferrari, Rolex etc. Bruno may be considered a success, (taking us to 8th), but its hardly been done with the sort of style that Fosun recruited him for - fast attacking football...

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

There's a conundrum here and it could go 2 ways. But.... I believe Fosun are ruthless enough to not let it go to far. Whether they are savvy enough to sort it correctly is up for debate.

 

[Norman Bell]

Clough & Fergie knew they were more valuable than any one player.

Quite a few of our squad earn more than Bruno.

For all the blah blah blah if someone is paid more than you it’s because they’re rarer & more valued, that makes it very hard for a manager to win this kind of battle.

Jim Smith " The Bald Eagle " ( what a character he was and a damn good man manager of players as well ) predicted in his autobiography that there would come a time when player power would totally take over as Jim said something like " A player on a least 10 times what you are on is just going to tune you out as he knows the Board will find it easier to explain to the fans the Manager has been sacked than 5 first team players are on the list for not bothering ! "

 

[WickedWolfie]

I preferred their earlier stuff, when they were Wirelesshead.

Where did Transistorhead fit in?

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Jim Smith " The Bald Eagle " ( what a character he was and a damn good man manager of players as well ) predicted in his autobiography that there would come a time when player power would totally take over as Jim said something like " A player on a least 10 times what you are on is just going to tune you out as he knows the Board will find it easier to explain to the fans the Manager has been sacked than 5 first team players are on the list for not bothering ! "

I saw an interview with the Gillingham manager today. He said 7 players are under contract and they will be leaving because they are not good enough. Easier to do in the lower leagues i know, but it is possible...

 

[Bognor_Wolf]

I've changed my tune a little in light of this bust up being confirmed. A club can't function if the players don't trust the manager. He clearly deserves more time because he's done a 7/10 job (even if our xG doesnt tally with our position), but if the players and he don't get on, there isn't much more to say. You can't get an entirely new team.

Has it actually been confirmed though? All I've seen is rumours after a really bad defeat like someone else has said surely if it is as bad as some are making out (Ryan Leister on twitter for example) surely it would have come out a bit sooner rather than coincidently after a big defeat....

It could all be true and if so Lage is in trouble but think some are willing it to be true and already talking like it is fact!

Think we will know more over the next couple of days...

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

There's a conundrum here and it could go 2 ways. But.... I believe Fosun are ruthless enough to not let it go to far. Whether they are savvy enough to sort it correctly is up for debate.

I genuinely feel we would of gone down this season under Nuno if he had the same lack of support as what Bruno has received from Fosun.

Problem is I can see us having the same struggles next season under Bruno as the new manager bounce is well and truely over.
Last thing I want is another short term fix though. We need a big name manager even if it costs us £10m a year

 

[oldgold4ever]

Since the news of this rumpus sprouted, I have been thinking back to the Ruben Neves interview with Dave Edwards. Fast forward to 14;37 when Edward asked Neves about leadership at the club. Neves goes on to say “it’s not hard to be a leader at this club because of the dressing room they have, every one wants to go to the same direction and when someone doesn’t want to go the same way, we will make sure he goes with us, if not he will not be welcome in our dressing room and everyone know that…”
Firstly I’m not saying that Neves runs the dressing room or overrides the manager, actually far from it as I tend to believe his words are directed at incoming players, but it is evident from what he says that the players have a certain code and the likes of himself and Coady are strong voices in the dressing room.
The bit that is starting to trigger, is Bruno talking up the inevitable sale of Neves this summer. Perhaps Bruno wants his own leaders and voices. Some players have been at the club for 4 or 5 years, much longer than Bruno, and because they are born leaders, they naturally feel my they are the ones that set the tone. It would not be the first time in football that a manager wanted his own men and also the first time a group of players failed to click with a talented manager, ie Leeds and Cloughie. An incredible decorated set of players and manager that would go on to lift the European cup twice.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

I genuinely feel we would of give down this season under Nuno if he had the same lack of support as what Bruno has received from Fosun.

Problem is I can see us having the same struggles next season under Bruno as the new manager bounce is well and truely over.
Last thing I want is another short term fix though. We need a big name manager even if it costs us £10m a year

We'll never know on the former...

 

[WickedWolfie]

Since the news of this rumpus sprouted, I have been thinking back to the Ruben Neves interview with Dave Edwards. Fast forward to 14;37 when Edward asked Neves about leadership at the club. Neves goes on to say “it’s not hard to be a leader at this club because of the dressing room they have, every one wants to go to the same direction and when someone doesn’t want to go the same way, we will make sure he goes with us, if not he will not be welcome in our dressing room and everyone know that…”
Firstly I’m not saying that Neves runs the dressing room or overrides the manager, actually far from it as I tend to believe his words are directed at incoming players, but it is evident from what he says that the players have a certain code and the likes of himself and Coady are strong voices in the dressing room.
The bit that is starting to trigger, is Bruno talking up the inevitable sale of Neves this summer. Perhaps Bruno wants his own leaders and voices. Some players have been at the club for 4 or 5 years, much longer than Bruno, and because they are born leaders, they naturally feel my they are the ones that set the tone. It would not be the first time in football that a manager wanted his own men and also the first time a group of players failed to click with a talented manager, ie Leeds and Cloughie. An incredible decorated set of players and manager that would go on to lift the European cup twice.

Leeds and Clough was quite different. Don Readies had let the team grow old together and had done no rebuilding. Compare that to Shankly at Liverpool.

Clough hated the Revie way and made that clear on arrival. The cosy club (and yes we seem to have one of those) weren't having that. They got their way and the club was in trouble a few years later. I hope that doesn't happen to us.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Since the news of this rumpus sprouted, I have been thinking back to the Ruben Neves interview with Dave Edwards. Fast forward to 14;37 when Edward asked Neves about leadership at the club. Neves goes on to say “it’s not hard to be a leader at this club because of the dressing room they have, every one wants to go to the same direction and when someone doesn’t want to go the same way, we will make sure he goes with us, if not he will not be welcome in our dressing room and everyone know that…”
Firstly I’m not saying that Neves runs the dressing room or overrides the manager, actually far from it as I tend to believe his words are directed at incoming players, but it is evident from what he says that the players have a certain code and the likes of himself and Coady are strong voices in the dressing room.
The bit that is starting to trigger, is Bruno talking up the inevitable sale of Neves this summer. Perhaps Bruno wants his own leaders and voices. Some players have been at the club for 4 or 5 years, much longer than Bruno, and because they are born leaders, they naturally feel my they are the ones that set the tone. It would not be the first time in football that a manager wanted his own men and also the first time a group of players failed to click with a talented manager, ie Leeds and Cloughie. An incredible decorated set of players and manager that would go on to lift the European cup twice.

It's an interesting point but i'm sure he is referencing players not the manager.

 

[oldgold4ever]

It's an interesting point but i'm sure he is referencing players not the manager.

I agree. He’s definitely referencing the players. But it’s also clear from what he’s saying the dressing room has it leaders. Remember John Terry at Chelsea? After Jose, Terry and a few others ran that dressing room despite a succession of managers believing they were in charge.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

I agree. He’s definitely referencing the players. But it’s also clear from what he’s saying the dressing room has it leaders. Remember John Terry at Chelsea? After Jose, Terry and a few others ran that dressing room despite a succession of managers believing they were in charge.

Yes i remember, but not sure our lot are as mercenary as he was. We are all surmising though as we can't know for sure what is going on at the heart of the club. The rumours aren't what you'd want to see from a club on the cusp of Europe with 4 games left though!

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Whilst the coach should set the tactics one can’t help thinking that Moutinho has more international caps than Bruno has managed first team games. Similarly, Coady, Neves, Saiss and several others all understand the Prem and what works. It does smack though of the squad vs Stale but this squad has better quality.

 

[Elvis Wolf]

If these rumours are correct, then that would explain our current demise.
The players are disgruntled and unhappy with Bruno, for whatever reason.
Totally ignoring his sidelline gestures, to push up and attack .
There's no hope if the players no longer want to play for him.
Coady should be the one urging the players on but yesterday he was non existant and conspicuous by his very low- key performance !
The players are to blame, not Bruno.

I don't blame him for saying that the supporters were right to boo the players non performance yesterday.
They showed very little interest and commitment.
Something's got to change, or Div 1 will beckon next season .

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Well I was giving you an excuse - if you want to tell me you watched every minute and just know bobbins about football fair enough.

We got 3 points when Adama toe punted the winner off the bar then the keeper - that doesn’t change the fact we were awful that game it just means we were lucky. If you don’t understand the difference fair play but the world must be a confusing place for you.

Oh more charm, nice.
So to recap, your first claim was that we 'nearly got relegated', even though we finished 17 points clear of Fulham and were never below 14th in the table.

Then you told me not to make up my own facts.

Then you said we were the worst team in the league for 2/3 of the season, even though in the last 2/3 of the season we still got as many points as Sheff Utd or Albion got in the whole season.

Apparently you must watch every minute of every team, to decide in your entirely subjective opinion that we were the worst team in the league. Still you're the expert (in your unbiased opinion).

 

[VancouverWolf]

This ‘bust up’ may be nothing more than a few heated words…….players venting, is all, probably.
Morale is low due to recent losses and people get frustrated, things get said but probably soon forgotten.

I wouldn’t get my hopes up yet if you want Bruno gone. We have NO idea the relationship between Jeff and Bruno. They might have a totally different slant on issues than the fans do.

In the last 24 hours there’s been quite a few rumours bandied about…….I’m gonna take those with a grain of salt.

But it does feel like we’re in limbo.

 

[John de Wolf's hairdryer]

I think we need a manager who can instantly earn the players respect and has no issues with shipping out any big names who fail to fall in line

Such a head coach is not available on Fosun’s tu'penny ha'penny budget.

They really are trying to get champagne results on beer money these last three years.

 

[wwbug]

Tool being the operative word....ones a great rock band the other is a bloke pretending to be a footballing director.

Given a job above his pay grade .

 

[VancouverWolf]

Such a head coach is not available on Fosun’s tu'penny ha'penny budget.

They really are trying to get champagne results on beer money these last three years.

That’s a bit unfair. Wolves, like many other PL clubs don’t have the revenue that the big guys do.
Plus, even if Wolves offered a £10m salary, how many top flight coaches would want to come?
The best coaches only want to go to the biggest clubs with huge transfer budgets.

 

[NottsWolves]

None of us know what will happen in the summer, who’s to say there isn’t going to be changes to the squad, perhaps a number of players know they are on their way out. It’s still no excuse to perform (or not as was the case yesterday) as the players did.

For me the squad is largely the same the last 2 seasons. They are the common denominator here and IF there has been a bust up over tactics, it still doesn’t excuse their lack of effort. For me it’s unforgivable.

 

[Evthewolf]

Who knows how much truth is behind all the rumours but for me this has possibly been a problem for a fair while.

If you look at Raul, his body language and demeanour has been so off at times this season. We’ve been putting it down to something that may have affected him after the injury but I think it’s more than likely just total frustration at the system and lack of support.

I am not the most observant when it comes to noticing what players do when they haven’t got the ball but I noticed several things yesterday because it was blatantly obvious. Jonny, not making any attempt to get back for their third being the standout among several others and not trying is something I could never have accused him of beforehand.

 

[KBWWFC]

but not sure our lot are as mercenary as he was.

Unsure, 4 years in a row they all turn up for the shop window games Vs Liverpool, City, United, etc then do a disappearing act Vs Burnley, Norwich, Huddersfield etc.

They're pure mercenary.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Who knows how much truth is behind all the rumours but for me this has possibly been a problem for a fair while.

If you look at Raul, his body language and demeanour has been so off at times this season. We’ve been putting it down to something that may have affected him after the injury but I think it’s more than likely just total frustration at the system and lack of support.

I am not the most observant when it comes to noticing what players do when they haven’t got the ball but I noticed several things yesterday because it was blatantly obvious. Jonny, not making any attempt to get back for their third being the standout among several others and not trying is something I could never have accused him of beforehand.

On the third goal there were 7 Wolves players (plus Sa) in the box and not one of them tried to block the shot. That is strange indeed...

 

[KBWWFC]

f you look at Raul, his body language and demeanour has been so off at times this season. We’ve been putting it down to something that may have affected him after the injury but I think it’s more than likely just total frustration at the system and lack of support.

Traumatic Brain Injury often results in personality and temperament change. Frustration,anger,agitation etc what we've seen from Raul this season is a textbook side effect of a TBI.

 

[Evthewolf]

On the third goal there were 7 Wolves players (plus Sa) in the box and not one of them tried to block the shot. That is strange indeed...

I also thought Sa would be very disappointed to have let that in from that distance. It looked one of the softest goals I have ever seen on about 6 counts.

Couple that with Saiss needlessly sticking an arm out for the first penalty. Then Boly having to gift them another and little or no attempt to stop Trossard’s goal and hmm.

Any suspicious betting patterns Billy Hill?

 

[Oliwolf44]

What if the bust up is just Bruno saying to Raul he is going to be sold/hasnt been playing well enough, and then jonny his best mate backing him up? Its something a lot of members have called for, selling raul or at least dropping for silva? Now the manager may have done it people calling for the managers head! We will never know what the bust up was about though

 

[Darvo]

On the latter you are correct. Won more points from losing positions than anyone a couple of seasons ago. No way would people leave the ground until the final whistle then.
You have to hope Jeff Shi was watching and listening yesterday. It would have been very sobering for him.

I ain’t so sure ... the ‘brand’ is growing exponentially ... all is good.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Traumatic Brain Injury often results in personality and temperament change. Frustration,anger,agitation etc what we've seen from Raul this season is a textbook side effect of a TBI.

This is true, but it’s also just as likely that he’s frustrated in himself and not being able to replicate his pre injury form.

 

[Norman Bell]

On the third goal there were 7 Wolves players (plus Sa) in the box and not one of them tried to block the shot. That is strange indeed...

I was talking to a Mate today and we both picked up on Garry Birtles on the Sky commentary saying this about the third goal " Is anybody going to close him down, is anybody going to try and get a block in, no they are not there is nobody near him and that sums Wolves up today "

 

[Darvo]

Well I was giving you an excuse - if you want to tell me you watched every minute and just know bobbins about football fair enough.

We got 3 points when Adama toe punted the winner off the bar then the keeper - that doesn’t change the fact we were awful that game it just means we were lucky. If you don’t understand the difference fair play but the world must be a confusing place for you.

Isn’t the world a confusing place for everyone right now?

 

[Darvo]

There's a conundrum here and it could go 2 ways. But.... I believe Fosun are ruthless enough to not let it go to far. Whether they are savvy enough to sort it correctly is up for debate.

The key question here, is whether they are prepared (or allowed) to seriously invest in the team any longer. I’ve got some serious doubts ... in which case, next season might be tough.

 

[CologneWolf]

Isn’t the world a confusing place for everyone right now?

Off topic but perhaps there is a bit of Bill Murray in all of us.

“The world is different than it was when I was a little kid. What I always thought was funny as a little kid isn’t necessarily the same as what’s funny now. Things change and the times change so it’s important for me to figure it out.”

Murray added: “I think it’s a sad dog that can’t learn anymore. I don’t want to be that sad dog and I have no intention of it.”

(Addressing claims he acted inappropriately on the set of his latest movie.)

 

[Darvo]

Off topic but perhaps there is a bit of Bill Murray in all of us.

“The world is different than it was when I was a little kid. What I always thought was funny as a little kid isn’t necessarily the same as what’s funny now. Things change and the times change so it’s important for me to figure it out.”

Murray added: “I think it’s a sad dog that can’t learn anymore. I don’t want to be that sad dog and I have no intention of it.”

(Addressing claims he acted inappropriately on the set of his latest movie.)

Very off topic ... but if I were to delve more deeply into mankind’s treatment of our home (the world) ... I dare say I’d be carted off to pre-mod or worse.

Best to leave it there.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

I ain’t so sure ... the ‘brand’ is growing exponentially ... all is good.

Apparently!

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

I was talking to a Mate today and we both picked up on Garry Birtles on the Sky commentary saying this about the third goal " Is anybody going to close him down, is anybody going to try and get a block in, no they are not there is nobody near him and that sums Wolves up today "

Yea. Not seen this squad do what they did yesterday for a long time. Something is certainly up but we don't really know, despite the rumours.

 

[Manic88]

Oh more charm, nice.
So to recap, your first claim was that we 'nearly got relegated', even though we finished 17 points clear of Fulham and were never below 14th in the table.

Then you told me not to make up my own facts.

Then you said we were the worst team in the league for 2/3 of the season, even though in the last 2/3 of the season we still got as many points as Sheff Utd or Albion got in the whole season.

Apparently you must watch every minute of every team, to decide in your entirely subjective opinion that we were the worst team in the league. Still you're the expert (in your unbiased opinion).

Blah blah blah blah Nuno was making us **** on purpose and he’d have fixed it this season boo Bruno blah blah blah blah zzzzzzzz

 

[Manic88]

I genuinely feel we would of gone down this season under Nuno if he had the same lack of support as what Bruno has received from Fosun.

Problem is I can see us having the same struggles next season under Bruno as the new manager bounce is well and truely over.
Last thing I want is another short term fix though. We need a big name manager even if it costs us £10m a year

And looks now like we’ll likely go down next under Bruno

But…this time next year we’ll have posters saying how we didn’t have a bad game this year and ran Arsenal close for 4th. Self deception is very powerful.

 

[Evthewolf]

The team picked to start against Chelsea, may tell us more. Although, it’s a struggle to know who’s fit, who’s half fit, who doesn’t want to play, who only wants to play half a game.

 

[NewarkWolf]

Him getting a red card on a one on one vs the keeper outside the box was ridiculous?

It wasn't a red....

It was a second yellow for not winning the ball at speed and clattering the player that did....