Ask Wolves

Boss Hogg said:
Watching the Russell Jones one it’s clear that there won’t be any stadium development anytime soon despite all the guff he comes out with.

Interest rates were at their cheapest ever, they are now rising, if it’s such a big risk getting any external borrowing to fund the build, Fosun themselves are sat on hundreds of millions in cash which they could lend off their own balance sheet to Wolves.

The overall impression is that they’ve given up on the club as it’s too expensive to take it any further, it will now be self funded and they’ll just hope we won’t get relegated. They will now **** about with esports and record labels, etc so they can earn some chicken feed in the vain hope of building a brand.
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I can’t get over your take on it. I think he presents some really exciting positive solutions given our financial position and status. And he talks openly about costs and potential dates - fan park this summer or next, 2028 bid

Why can’t we face facts?

We simply can’t match Man City or even Newcastle now, and we’re million miles behind Liverrpool Arsenal Man Utd brands yet we’re being extremely innovative and not simply demanding money from Fosun who are an investment conglomerate

That’s what they are, what they always were

You can shout and stomp about not spending as much money as clubs backed by oil nations for sport washing, but it ain’t gonna happen
 
Wisdomwolf said:
Fosun have dozens of similar ventures please show me any evidence of lining up their own pockets. Happy to be proved wrong but as someone with experience of dealing with the corporate world in the Far East I have a little knowledge.
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There isn't any at all. People seem to be just taking what has been said and making their own version of it up.
What they are doing (fosun sports) is very innovative due to the circumstances of the PL outside of the top 6. Unfortunately unless we are "doing bits" some people will never be happy.
Those people cannot see the wood for the trees....
 
Wisdomwolf said:
Fosun have dozens of similar ventures please show me any evidence of lining up their own pockets. Happy to be proved wrong but as someone with experience of dealing with the corporate world in the Far East I have a little knowledge.
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He can’t because it’s hypothetical

But that won’t stop the tantrums

And as for Fosun one day selling and making profit, again - chelsea just got sold for 4billion and their fans aren’t crying

If Fosun were breaking us up like a VC would, and profiting from each piece then sure tantrum away.

But they’re not. They have far bigger fish to fry. They only care about value of the club increasing long term and everything is geared towards that
 
dragracewolf said:
Remember he said in his first interview that he wanted to be bigger than Man City? Fans and media have been beating him with that stick ever since. So asking him to say the former is just something to keep beating him with it again, and he clearly isn't going to do it.
The rest of what you are asking him to do he is doing, but he's not saying it how you want him to. You are a fan talking, and he is a business man. The way he explains it will not be how you do down the pub, or on here.

I'll say it again, you cannot ask him to spend millions on players, but not grow the revenue of the club outside of Wolverhampton. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. I guess they could put season tickets up 300 quid each season, and double the price of shirts. Even if the fan base gave all their spare money to Wolves it still wouldn't raise the revenue enough, and we'd see even more moaning from sections of the fans.
What he is saying, and the local fan base should be happy about, is he wants "fans" from around the world to be buying into the brand, which means the fanbase grows to a point that big sponsors and investors see that they can sell their products to much more than 200k fans. That in turn brings more money into the club, which allows more money to be spent on the team as our FFP restriction becomes higher. So basically the "fans" that people so despise are actually helping the local fans see their team grow! I'm stunned that some people refuse to see this as it's absolutely what the club should be trying to achieve.
And if 11 videos from all aspects of the club isn't fan engagement then i really don't know what people want. Maybe go round to everyone's house and chat about club matters over a pot of tea?
No other PL club engages the fans like Wolves do with these videos. The only problem is sometimes they just don't tell you what you want to hear. They just tell the truth.
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Shi did make some promises that it looks increasingly unlikely he can deliver on. Let's put that to one side.

His stated business model is to diversify into clothing, music and esports - because like football - they are all entertainment, and to build a fanbase in Asia and South America.

If people overseas like watching the Premier league it might increase the value of the TV package, which benefits all teams, but how much of our revenue is being diverted to build these new business ventures, what new revenue is being generated and how much of this is going to come back to the football club?

If Wolves are poor, because we are forced to field Kawabe and Hwang, and we are just surviving, then who is going to buy the cheap knock-off club shirt?
 
YouGottaRaulWithIt said:
Shi did make some promises that it looks increasingly unlikely he can deliver on. Let's put that to one side.

His stated business model is to diversify into clothing, music and esports - because like football - they are all entertainment, and to build a fanbase in Asia and South America.

If people overseas like watching the Premier league it might increase the value of the TV package, which benefits all teams, but how much of our revenue is being diverted to build these new business ventures, what new revenue is being generated and how much of this is going to come back to the football club?

If Wolves are poor, because we are forced to field Kawabe and Hwang, and we are just surviving, then who is going to buy the cheap knock-off club shirt?
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Speculate to accumulate it called. And it's not so much about revenue generated now. It's about building numbers.
Here's an example. You have 200k people in your brand. To an investor that is worth say 1 million. Or you have 2 million people in your brand. That is then worth 10 million.
It's not about selling stuff to people, it's about selling people to investors and sponsors. More people on board the brand, the more it's worth.
Do you understand that?
 
dragracewolf said:
Remember he said in his first interview that he wanted to be bigger than Man City? Fans and media have been beating him with that stick ever since. So asking him to say the former is just something to keep beating him with it again, and he clearly isn't going to do it.
The rest of what you are asking him to do he is doing, but he's not saying it how you want him to. You are a fan talking, and he is a business man. The way he explains it will not be how you do down the pub, or on here.

I'll say it again, you cannot ask him to spend millions on players, but not grow the revenue of the club outside of Wolverhampton. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. I guess they could put season tickets up 300 quid each season, and double the price of shirts. Even if the local fan base gave all their spare money to Wolves it still wouldn't raise the revenue enough, and we'd see even more moaning from sections of the fans.
What he is saying, and the local fan base should be happy about, is he wants "fans" from around the world to be buying into the brand, which means the fanbase grows to a point that big sponsors and investors see that they can sell their products to much more than 200k fans. That in turn brings more money into the club, which allows more money to be spent on the team as our FFP restriction becomes higher. So basically the "fans" that people so despise are actually helping the local fans see their team grow! I'm stunned that some people refuse to see this as it's absolutely what the club should be trying to achieve.
And if 11 videos from all aspects of the club isn't fan engagement then i really don't know what people want. Maybe go round to everyone's house and chat about club matters over a pot of tea?
No other PL club engages the fans like Wolves do with these videos. The only problem is sometimes they just don't tell you what you want to hear. They just tell the truth.
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Yes I am a fan - but I am also a business leader and C-level executive of a global company with revenue 20 times that of Wolves. So I see it from both perspectives. It is OK to have an aspirational vision like I have described - that is what a vision is for. There is a world of difference between that and the ad-hoc naive rhetoric that Jeff came out with a few years ago. You are right that the rest of what he said is broadly in line with how I structured it - but the issue is the muddled, garbled and divisive way in which the message was conveyed. As the leader of an organisation it is his responsibility to get that right. So while I understand your take on it, I don’t appreciate the immature arrogance. I appreciate it’s a forum and so you have a right to share your view - but I suggest you wind in the misplaced and patronising way in which you provide your input. It lets you down massively.
 
dragracewolf said:
Speculate to accumulate it called. And it's not so much about revenue generated now. It's about building numbers.
Here's an example. You have 200k people in your brand. To an investor that is worth say 1 million. Or you have 2 million people in your brand. That is then worth 10 million.
It's not about selling stuff to people, it's about selling people to investors and sponsors. More people on board the brand, the more it's worth.
Do you understand that?
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That makes good sense actually...
Because I do think that some people thinks that every penny generated from, lets say E-sport is then put into the football department to help that grow. That doesnt seem to be the case though. Rather its used to help that department grow further, by being reinvested back into it.
Good thing for the football department of course is, that it also means, that money generated from football department arent taken out to be used fund other ventures. As far as I can tell, Wolves (The football club) havent spend much football related income, to help fund other areas. Rather Fosun has invested in those apartments, to help them grow to a point where they too are selfsustainable.
 
CodsallWolf said:
Yes I am a fan - but I am also a business leader and C-level executive of a global company with revenue 20 times that of Wolves. So I see it from both perspectives. It is OK to have an aspirational vision like I have described - that is what a vision is for. There is a world of difference between that and the ad-hoc naive rhetoric that Jeff came out with a few years ago. You are right that the rest of what he said is broadly in line with how I structured it - but the issue is the muddled, garbled and divisive way in which the message was conveyed. As the leader of an organisation it is his responsibility to get that right. So while I understand your take on it, I don’t appreciate the immature arrogance. I appreciate it’s a forum and so you have a right to share your view - but I suggest you wind in the misplaced and patronising way in which you provide your input. It lets you down massively.
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Indeed i have, but patronising?
Nowhere in your name does it mention you are a C level executive, so i replied to your post, which in fairness doesn't come across as you are anything do do with being a business leader. I took you from your post as you wrote it.
You are also missing the point that Jeff is Chinese, and the way he puts his words across aren't quite as concise as they would be if he was English. That isn't his fault. I understood exactly what he was trying to convey.
 
DanishWolf said:
That makes good sense actually...
Because I do think that some people thinks that every penny generated from, lets say E-sport is then put into the football department to help that grow. That doesnt seem to be the case though. Rather its used to help that department grow further, by being reinvested back into it.
Good thing for the football department of course is, that it also means, that money generated from football department arent taken out to be used fund other ventures. As far as I can tell, Wolves (The football club) havent spend much football related income, to help fund other areas. Rather Fosun has invested in those apartments, to help them grow to a point where they too are selfsustainable.
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Exactly. I think if people really understood this then they would be much more on board with what the club is trying to do to grow.
 
dragracewolf said:
Indeed i have, but patronising?
Nowhere in your name does it mention you are a C level executive, so i replied to your post, which in fairness doesn't come across as you are anything do do with being a business leader. I took you from your post as you wrote it.
You are also missing the point that Jeff is Chinese, and the way he puts his words across aren't quite as concise as they would be if he was English. That isn't his fault. I understood exactly what he was trying to convey.
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I give up mate. Now I am missing the point that Jeff is Chinese? That’s truly hilarious and irrelevant. I’m done on this thread.
 
CodsallWolf said:
I give up mate. Now I am missing the point that Jeff is Chinese? That’s truly hilarious and irrelevant. I’m done on this thread.
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"I think the whole of the Jeff interview is epitomized in one of the first questions Johnny asks. The question of what the Fosun’s vision is for the club should be bread and butter and should be answered with simple, precise and concise clarity conveying what the aspiration is, and providing the strategic plan in place to pursue that vision."

In bold and what you said. He's Chinese, so his English, although decent, doesn't come across as precise and concise as it would from a native English speaker.
And i'm not your mate fyi.
 
There is an interesting article in The Athletic about Barcelona and Cadiz which could quite easily be about Wolves. It's about how both clubs are trying to develop and make money from their respective global fan bases and sponsors.

In it the Cadiz co-owner says "“The idea was to take a team that’s very local, and drive new revenue streams by making them more global,” the 38-year-old American tells The Athletic over Zoom from China. “We can use this platform where we’re playing against many of the best clubs in the world every weekend to draw in audiences and get them to know our narrative, then ultimately to drive revenue that can improve the standing of the team — to actually use global eyeballs and global capital to benefit our local fans. Because Cadiz has awesome fans.”

I was fine with what Jeff Shi had to say, but maybe if he had just thrown in the line "Wolves have awesome fans" in would have placated some of his critics.

Anyway, its an interesting read.

theathletic.com

Barcelona, Cadiz and changing the way clubs tap into their global fanbase

How to connect millions of fans around the world is high on the agenda for clubs like Barca, but also for others in La Liga such as Cadiz
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 
clivewolves said:
There is an interesting article in The Athletic about Barcelona and Cadiz which could quite easily be about Wolves. It's about how both clubs are trying to develop and make money from their respective global fan bases and sponsors.

In it the Cadiz co-owner says "“The idea was to take a team that’s very local, and drive new revenue streams by making them more global,” the 38-year-old American tells The Athletic over Zoom from China. “We can use this platform where we’re playing against many of the best clubs in the world every weekend to draw in audiences and get them to know our narrative, then ultimately to drive revenue that can improve the standing of the team — to actually use global eyeballs and global capital to benefit our local fans. Because Cadiz has awesome fans.”

I was fine with what Jeff Shi had to say, but maybe if he had just thrown in the line "Wolves have awesome fans" in would have placated some of his critics.

Anyway, its an interesting read.

theathletic.com

Barcelona, Cadiz and changing the way clubs tap into their global fanbase

How to connect millions of fans around the world is high on the agenda for clubs like Barca, but also for others in La Liga such as Cadiz
theathletic.com theathletic.com
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That is a very good point in bold. Maybe the only mistake he made in the interview. I'm sure he does think that, but saying it directly would have helped.
And the article is exactly what i've been trying to put across about Wolves plans.
 
Wisdomwolf said:
Fosun have dozens of similar ventures please show me any evidence of lining up their own pockets. Happy to be proved wrong but as someone with experience of dealing with the corporate world in the Far East I have a little knowledge.
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I never said they were. I said give it time.

What I mean is, they are an investment company, they have invested in Wolves and sooner or later, they will be looking to get their money back.

Either that, or they will look for other people to invest, and those shareholders will definately want to see a return.
 
dragracewolf said:
Speculate to accumulate it called. And it's not so much about revenue generated now. It's about building numbers.
Here's an example. You have 200k people in your brand. To an investor that is worth say 1 million. Or you have 2 million people in your brand. That is then worth 10 million.
It's not about selling stuff to people, it's about selling people to investors and sponsors. More people on board the brand, the more it's worth.
Do you understand that?
Click to expand...
Not really. I don't get the phase 'on board the brand'. You don't get people 'in your brand'.

A quality brand product is something people are willing to pay a premium for. So, people want to see Real Madrid and buy their shirts because they win things and have done for a long time. That can only work for Wolves if we play entertaining football and win matches.

Same goes for potential investors. They will buy shares in a club that is winning and if the TV money keeps growing or more fans come to watch. I think Fosun money to invest and improve the side has stopped.
 
YouGottaRaulWithIt said:
Not really. I don't get the phase 'on board the brand'. You don't get people 'in your brand'.

A quality brand product is something people are willing to pay a premium for. So, people want to see Real Madrid and buy their shirts because they win things and have done for a long time. That can only work for Wolves if we play entertaining football and win matches.

Same goes for potential investors. They will buy shares in a club that is winning and if the TV money keeps growing or more fans come to watch. I think Fosun money to invest and improve the side has stopped.
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If all that was the case there would be 10 clubs in Europe who investors would look at. It's about potential, that is what investors look at. Same as when any investment firm looks at a product or brand and sees it has potential growth, then buys into it to grow it more.
A bit like Fosun did when they bought us in the championship, whilst we weren't winning anything.
You can't see it obviously. That's your choice.
 
DanishWolf said:
I think the term "Legacy fan" is well described by The Atletic here.
It doesn't necessarily have to do with geography. I'd be labelled a legacy fan too, even though I live in Denmark.
New fans of course could of course become legacy fans in due time (We were all new fans at one time).
However from a marketing perspective we aren't (according to Perez) and others worth much attention. We'll be supporting the club no matter what. Temporary supporters (or customers if you like) wouldn't. They need the buzz of seeing their national players play for the club, or in Real Madrids case, sign super stars. Or other consumer designed ventures to get them excited for a while.
Then they'll buy the merch, maybe even go to a game.
They'll not stay loyal of course. But from a marketing perspective that's unimportant, as long as for a period of time, they put money into the "brand."

As for Shi? I think its quite clear what he and Fosun thinks. They don't dislike legacy fans. But our opinion or dissatisfaction is certainly less important. Because we'll stay no matter what..
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I agree that the Super League has created particularly negative connotations for the word "legacy" in particular. A podcast I listen to (Kermode & Mayo's film reviews) recently moved away from the BBC with some rebranding, but they also use the term "heritage listeners" for long-term listeners, which sounds a lot more respectful than "legacy".
 
CodsallWolf said:
Yes I am a fan - but I am also a business leader and C-level executive of a global company with revenue 20 times that of Wolves. So I see it from both perspectives. It is OK to have an aspirational vision like I have described - that is what a vision is for. There is a world of difference between that and the ad-hoc naive rhetoric that Jeff came out with a few years ago. You are right that the rest of what he said is broadly in line with how I structured it - but the issue is the muddled, garbled and divisive way in which the message was conveyed. As the leader of an organisation it is his responsibility to get that right. So while I understand your take on it, I don’t appreciate the immature arrogance. I appreciate it’s a forum and so you have a right to share your view - but I suggest you wind in the misplaced and patronising way in which you provide your input. It lets you down massively.
Click to expand...

I’m a c-level Exec and I’m arguing with fellow fans on the internet, talented guy
 
dragracewolf said:
"I think the whole of the Jeff interview is epitomized in one of the first questions Johnny asks. The question of what the Fosun’s vision is for the club should be bread and butter and should be answered with simple, precise and concise clarity conveying what the aspiration is, and providing the strategic plan in place to pursue that vision."

In bold and what you said. He's Chinese, so his English, although decent, doesn't come across as precise and concise as it would from a native English speaker.
And i'm not your mate fyi.
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Oh give over.I'm not your mate.FFS.That's childish.
 
YouGottaRaulWithIt said:
Not really. I don't get the phase 'on board the brand'. You don't get people 'in your brand'.

A quality brand product is something people are willing to pay a premium for. So, people want to see Real Madrid and buy their shirts because they win things and have done for a long time. That can only work for Wolves if we play entertaining football and win matches.

Same goes for potential investors. They will buy shares in a club that is winning and if the TV money keeps growing or more fans come to watch. I think Fosun money to invest and improve the side has stopped.
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They will also buy into a brand with huge demographic dividend among young people, which is what Fosun are doing by aligning FSG with the most popular culture forms - football, esports, music and fashion. All of that generates the funds to grow the football club.
 
Summer_Wolf said:
The real local Wolves fans, as opposed to the plastics in Mexico, China etc that didn't know who we were a few years ago that Jeff ridiculously refers to as 'fans'. Some esports fanatic is apparently more important than a proper fan who pays good money to go to games according to our Jeffery!
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Ridiculous! He never said that.
 
Wisdomwolf said:
They will also buy into a brand with huge demographic dividend among young people, which is what Fosun are doing by aligning FSG with the most popular culture forms - football, esports, music and fashion. All of that generates the funds to grow the football club.
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Agreed.
 
Summer_Wolf said:
The real local Wolves fans, as opposed to the plastics in Mexico, China etc that didn't know who we were a few years ago that Jeff ridiculously refers to as 'fans'. Some esports fanatic is apparently more important than a proper fan who pays good money to go to games according to our Jeffery!
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Jeff neither said nor implied that.
One of my mates here in Japan now follows the Wolves... and you're saying it's ridiculous for him to call himself a fan? My mate doesn't speak English so well but I think he could manage to tell you to **** off. Failing that, kuso-ttare.
By the way, do you walk around with a little badge that says, "Look at me, I'm a local /legacy fan. I'm important!" ?
 
Japan Wulf said:
Jeff neither said nor implied that.
One of my mates here in Japan now follows the Wolves... and you're saying it's ridiculous for him to call himself a fan? My mate doesn't speak English so well but I think he could manage to tell you to **** off. Failing that, kuso-ttare.
By the way, do you walk around with a little badge that says, "Look at me, I'm a local /legacy fan. I'm important!" ?
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I suggest you watch it again. It's pretty obvious he sees them as more important than the locals - anyone can see that. There's a difference between a follower and a fan - a fan is someone who has roots to the club/invests their hard earned money into actually supporting the team. Putting your crappy sarcastic tone to one side (which shows you have very little understanding of what an actual fan is), local fans are the life blood of any football club, that's a fact. Not saying there isn't room for global fans, that's part of the game. But it shouldn't be to the detriment of the core local fanbase which, at the end of the day, is what is the foundation of any football club.
 
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Japan Wulf said:
Jeff neither said nor implied that.
One of my mates here in Japan now follows the Wolves... and you're saying it's ridiculous for him to call himself a fan? My mate doesn't speak English so well but I think he could manage to tell you to **** off. Failing that, kuso-ttare.
By the way, do you walk around with a little badge that says, "Look at me, I'm a local /legacy fan. I'm important!" ?
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While its great that your mate in Japan now follows Wolves - and he's to be commended for that decision
The reality is that for people who live in Wolverhampton, its their local team who many have followed for years & years. Many of these people (& their families) have spent thousands of pounds over the years watching Wolves.
Out of curiosity, ask your mate why he chose to support WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS
Did he like the name Wolves?
Did he like the badge or the colour of our kit?
Did he like the motto - 'Out of Darkness cometh light?
Did he like one particular player(s)or the colours or was it from watching one player in particular?
Will he always support Wolves or will this just be whilst they are in the Premier League?
 
HowfenWolf said:
While its great that your mate in Japan now follows Wolves - and he's to be commended for that decision
The reality is that for people who live in Wolverhampton, its their local team who many have followed for years & years. Many of these people (& their families) have spent thousands of pounds over the years watching Wolves.
Out of curiosity, ask your mate why he chose to support WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS
Did he like the name Wolves?
Did he like the badge or the colour of our kit?
Did he like the motto - 'Out of Darkness cometh light?
Did he like one particular player(s)or the colours or was it from watching one player in particular?
Will he always support Wolves or will this just be whilst they are in the Premier League?
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Maybe they're missing a marketing/income opportunity, if focusing on global fans maybe introduce an Associate Fans Season Ticket for such fans and include a goody bag of merchandise, allow them to demostrate their support and means to buy into the project. ;)
 
VancouverWolf said:
Not having a go at you…..but it wasn’t obvious at all. Is it possible, …just maybe, that it’s you reading between the lines and misinterpreting what he said?
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It really was to me, he's putting these global 'fans' on a pedestal, almost talking with distain on the local, match-going fans. Plenty of others feel the same way.
 
The bottom line is…..
Wolves need more money to field a better team to consistently get into Europe or maybe win the FA cup.

Even with the local fan base and their ST and the tv revenue, it’s not enough money and Fosun’s rules are….fund yourself, period.

So the obvious answer to a blind man is find some other ways to get some extra loot.

Who could find fault with that?
If Jeff’s answer and delivery wasn’t crystal clear for some……ok….fine but that’s a separate issue from raising the money.
Don‘t roll both issues into one.
 
Summer_Wolf said:
It really was to me, he's putting these global 'fans' on a pedestal, almost talking with distain on the local, match-going fans. Plenty of others feel the same way.
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Ok…..yes, I got that,……..it was that way to you. Now you’re saying distain .

I thought it was clear myself, but….hey.
 
VancouverWolf said:
The bottom line is…..
Wolves need more money to field a better team to consistently get into Europe or maybe win the FA cup.

Even with the local fan base and their ST and the tv revenue, it’s not enough money and Fosun’s rules are….fund yourself, period.

So the obvious answer to a blind man is find some other ways to get some extra loot.

Who could find fault with that?
If Jeff’s answer and delivery wasn’t crystal clear for some……ok….fine but that’s a separate issue from raising the money.
Don‘t roll both issues into one.
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I agree that we need to buy better players, either that or bring some academy players through. My issue is with the strategy.

I can understand Fosun wanting to get into esports if they can see a way to make money. Not so sure about music or fashion. But, how are these ventures being funded and will any profit go back into developing the team?

If we see some quality players coming in this summer to replace the likes of Neves, then I will be happy. I just don't think it will happen. The tap turned off two years ago, due to geopolitical issues, and we are not going to get any more now. Any money made from esports is going back to China.
 
VancouverWolf said:
Not having a go at you…..but it wasn’t obvious at all. Is it possible, …just maybe, that it’s you reading between the lines and misinterpreting what he said?
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You have to stop that. I'm agreeing with you on 3 of your posts!
 
Summer_Wolf said:
Read between the lines and watch it again. It's pretty obvious what he was implying.
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Like VW said, you reading between the lines and taking your own version of what he said does not mean he actually said it.
It's your interpretation!
Man alive..... :rolleyes:
 
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