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When does history stop becoming important in modern day football?

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by johnybig32, Jun 16, 2012.

  1. johnybig32

    johnybig32 Just doesn't shut up

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    Wimabigclub??

    Are we? Why? When?
     
  2. PumpKing

    PumpKing Just doesn't shut up

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    N E V E R.

    English foorball history is more important than anything this so called modern day football has to offer. Imagine what is now being left to our children as history. Greed, selfishness, criminal activities by club owners etc., crazy entrance prices, and players who will only play for personal gain and not club loyalty.

    History is all that is left I`m afraid and we must hold on to it as an example of what we need to return to as a matter of urgency..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2012
  3. cannockwolves

    cannockwolves Just doesn't shut up

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    It's a very good question. There are a lot of things wrapped up in that. Does our history matter or help now, is it a disadvantage now?

    My view is it gives you a platform a base level. Even when we were in the 4th division the fact we were wolves gave us an edge in attracting players. If also gives you potential platform for larger support. I believe these advantages to be real, but it must be coupled with a desire to live in the here and now - and have a plan for growth. We can only become established in the premier if we have the best academy producing better players and we have better scouting picking up bargains from all over the world.

    So our history helps relative to other clubs but we are not a big club and are simular to Derby or the likes of Forrest

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
     
  4. johnybig32

    johnybig32 Just doesn't shut up

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    The right sentiments but wont happen.

    In my lifetime we have spent most of the time in the second tier of football. Yet people, WWFC fans, think wimabigclub.
     
  5. PumpKing

    PumpKing Just doesn't shut up

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    This is a greater subject than just Wolves history IMHO. It should cover the whole of football history and not just our own.
     
  6. SOUTHBANK_BULLY

    SOUTHBANK_BULLY Just doesn't shut up

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    look at the trophies we have won and come back with that stupid comment

    we also invented european football ffs , small club ?? MY $$$$

    in my lifetime i have seen us win back to back promotions , a trip to wembley to win a cup , no matter how small the cup is its still a cup , ive seen us win a play-off final and ive seen us win the championship

    no where near a small club , try supporting walsall if you want to see a small club :wavey:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2012
  7. johnybig32

    johnybig32 Just doesn't shut up

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    When was all that SB? That is why im asking so get off your aggressive high horse.

    Why will the next generation and the generation after that think we are a big club?

    Are Honved still a Euro Super Power?
     
  8. Dewsburywolf

    Dewsburywolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Sad to say Wolves are (currently) a second tier club with aspirations of lower level first tier. Money rules & unfortunately we can't (or won't) compete at the right levels to do ourselves justice
     
  9. SOUTHBANK_BULLY

    SOUTHBANK_BULLY Just doesn't shut up

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    the last trophy was won the last time we went up

    yes we are a 2nd tier club again but with history you also have to have ambition , and thats what our club have , some people might not agree but we do , people should be proud of our history , in the late 80's were were damn lucky to still have a club , the ground was a dump and falling to the ground but thats history , the trophies won ,the players we had , thats something to be proud of , teams dont have to be constantly winning trophies to be a big club

    in the championship i see the likes of forest,leeds and derby big clubs as well
     
  10. Dewsburywolf

    Dewsburywolf Just doesn't shut up

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    History (unfortunately) is entirely that = the past, it can't really help you in the present & can in fact be a millstone round your neck
     
  11. Mutchy

    Mutchy Administrator

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    To us we'll always be a big club.
    To people who follow the game as a whole we'll be seen as a big club - or at least a sleeping giant - because of our past achievements and place in football history.
    To those who have grown up with the success of Man United and Chelsea, and who base their footballing overview on the league tables of more recent years, we won't be seen as a big club.
     
  12. Dewsburywolf

    Dewsburywolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Go into any school playground in England & ask every child to name 10 teams who've played in the Premier League & see what the stats are
     
  13. StefanWolves

    StefanWolves Just doesn't shut up

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    I really admire your passion/enthusiasm, Fair play
     
  14. Bankswolf II

    Bankswolf II Guest

    Unless you are into football to the extent that you recognise the past achievements of teams other than you're own then we must be classed along with the likes of forest, Liverpool etc

    Unfortunatly people many fans are brought up to believe that football didnt exist until the prem started so by that basis we aren't a big deal it's all Sky's fault
     
  15. Sephiroth

    Sephiroth Has a lot to say

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    Id say when there arent any fans alive who can remember those times anymore.
     
  16. SOUTHBANK_BULLY

    SOUTHBANK_BULLY Just doesn't shut up

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    im not on any high horse and im not being agressive

    its FACT that wolves invited european clubs over to play us in friendlies , we played a major part in inventing european football

    honved might not be the major force they once was but they were at the time

    we have a history to be proud of

    for instance another thing to be proud of

    billy wright of wolverhampton wanderers
    1st player to win 100 caps playing for his country in the WORLD ,not europe the WORLD
     
  17. johnybig32

    johnybig32 Just doesn't shut up

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    So history will outweigh everything in your opinion then?

    What is happening to Rangers now will have no impact on their status?
     
  18. SOUTHBANK_BULLY

    SOUTHBANK_BULLY Just doesn't shut up

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    your missing the point ..........
     
  19. reanswolf

    reanswolf MolMix's Manchester United Cheerleader-in-Chief

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    I think if you believe anyone in the prem is a big club, well yes then we are a big club. I have never seen us as such and I believe only about 10 teams are. We are quite a big club in my eyes, but never been a "sleeping giant". Not with out crowds. Infact I cringed when I saw those banners at Cardiff with the "The sleeping giant has awoken" or whatever they said. I know a lot of poeple remarked at the time how up our own derriere's we were.

    Obvioulsy its great to have a history of winning things, but at the same time when you have fallen away so consistently as we have, it actually hinders us due to over-expectation. Thankfully, the generation who live in the past are increeasingly not with us, so i think that poisonous expectation is gradually diminishing. Having said that, our support at times is fantastic.
     
  20. Sutton Wolf

    Sutton Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I agree with that statement,I believe history is important as long as there are people around that remember the 50s and 60s and it is up to us to pass on our memories of those times to make up for the glory hunting kids of today.
     
  21. SOUTHBANK_BULLY

    SOUTHBANK_BULLY Just doesn't shut up

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    the coming season we will be one of the teams to beat , wolves,blackburn and bolton , big fish in a small pond type comes to mind

    like i said people should be proud of our history , might have happened a while ago but it still happened
     
  22. long ball man

    long ball man Just doesn't shut up

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    Great subject.

    Being slightly fatuous my reply would be 'when history is not in living memory' My old man was a teenager when Wolves were all conquering in the 50s and I suppose anyone under 45 (I am 42) has no real memory of a consistent top half top flight Wolves team. So my rough reckoning is that if you assume that the next 30 odd years bring no silverware then that's about the amount of time we have left to claim 'wimabigclub'.

    As to does it matter?

    Well yes. Look at 'big clubs' who have dropped into the 3rd of 4th tier be it us, Sunderland, WBA, Sheff U, Southampton etc and of course Man City. They always get back to top flight because of fan base and don't stay amongst the Southends and Torquays for very long.

    On the other hand take a look at the PL now. I would contend that the obvious 'Big Six' aside that actually taken as a whole there are bigger clubs in the Championship. Would anyone describe Reading, Swansea, Norwich, Fulham, QPR, et al as 'natural' top flight clubs? This is where history can be a millstone. if 'wimabigclub' the pressure to get from Champship to PL is intense. I still say a passing game a la Wigan and Swansea wouldn't find favour at Wolves or many other biggish clubs because the fans wouldn't give it the 3/5 years necessary to embed.

    History...a boon and a problem.
     
  23. Vietnam Wolf

    Vietnam Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    To most football watchers (and I use that term rather than the word 'fans') football started the day Richard Keys introduced the first televised EPL (and I use that term deliberately) game on Sky Sports 1.

    Anything before that is largely irrelevant
     
  24. Hebburn Wolves

    Hebburn Wolves Just doesn't shut up

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    In todays media football history only starts from the begining of the premiership.

    Wolves arnt a big club any more havnt been since the 60s/70s
     
  25. vega recollection

    vega recollection Just doesn't shut up

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  26. Jungleee

    Jungleee Just doesn't shut up

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    Good summary.
     
  27. Big Nosed Wolf

    Big Nosed Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    History can never be classed as unimportant to any club.

    Historical events make the club what it is.

    I wasn't around in the late nineteenth century but I understand and can relate to some of the events that went on back then. You only have to read an account of the day out at the club's first FA cup success to realise that.

    In the eighties it was the tradition and history which helped to ensure enough people were determined to save the club from oblivion. Many clubs with less 'previous' would have folded back then IMO.

    The club has enriched the City, the area and the game with it's history. History can be used to learn what can make it successful (a pity many of the current decision makers dont understand it fully).

    It matters not a bit how succesful (or big) the club is, that is a seperate issue.

    WWFC has tradition and history dating back to origins of organised football in the country. This should never, and proably will never, be forgotten.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2012
  28. NewarkWolf

    NewarkWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I know it starts to become more important when a club gets relegated and needs something to cling onto to believe they still are a massive club.....................
     
  29. WV10Wolf

    WV10Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Nuneaton have won the Birmingham Senior Cup more times than us....does that make them bigger than us? :p

    Banter aside. Like someone posted earlier, in all the years I've seen Wolves (my first games were during the 88/89 season) We've spend all but 4 of them out of the top flight. In that respect we're not a big club. However I love history. (I've got a degree in it I love it that much) and the following points from our history just make me proud to be a Wolves fan.

    Founder members of the Football League
    First team in the league to score a penalty
    The floodlight friendlies (so yeah, we basically invented the European Cup)
    Three times league champions (during the era of the supposed all conquering Busby Babes)
    Four times FA Cup Winners (Including the lowest placed league team to lift the trophy)
    Two times League Cup winners (Both times beating odds on favourites to lift the cup)
    First team to win all four professional divisions.
    Taking 50,000 fans to the final of a tournament for Third and Fourth Division Sides. (That attendance of 80,000 has got to be a world record for a match between two fourth tier teams
    Billy Wright
    Steve Bull

    I could go on and on. At times the history can be a burden and a brickbat to beat us with, but it should always be respected, taught and celebrated. It makes us the club we are.

    Half the clubs in the Premier League would crawl over broken glass with their flies open to achieve half of what we have.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2012
  30. rincewind

    rincewind Just doesn't shut up

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    Would you rather have Wolves history or Wigans league position?
    Personally I think our history marks us out from clubs like that and I wouldn't swop.
     
  31. WonderWolf

    WonderWolf WoWoWoobsykins

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    History is what makes us what we are, it is always there....

    When we achieve something as a club it is what is recalled and used to define us in a way.

    We should be glad and celebrate the fact we are and always will be considered to be easily in the top 15 clubs in the country in terms of historical status...
     
  32. johnybig32

    johnybig32 Just doesn't shut up

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    Norwich, Wigan and Bolton all have spent more seasons in the Premier League than us yet I think of them as small clubs but in modern day history, they have been more successful than us then??

    This is why I ask when does it stop?
     
  33. WonderWolf

    WonderWolf WoWoWoobsykins

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    Well the answer to that is that it doesn’t 'stop'....it is constantly being made.

    It is subjective in that it is about the individual and their opinion based on their relevance and relationship to the 'subject'......a bit like 'beauty being in the eye of the beholder.'

    In our case as regards history, it will will show that as a former superpower and 'big player' in English football we spent 3 seasons back where we belong but could not progress.....until the next time that is! ;):D
     
  34. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I'm not sure SS would have come over to manage say Peterboro or even Crystal Palace or Bristol City. History is a major part of any club and SS said that he knew of Wolves as a child and our tradition/achievements must have been a massive attraction for him. We have a glorious history and as a Wolves fan it's something I'm very proud of. Yes, as time moves on and as we languish yet again outside the Premier League our heritage possibly matters not a jot and being in the top flight is how a club is judged but would I rather support Wigan or Reading or Swansea - never.
     

  35. Your right, lets all settle for being a has been club and all stop expecting us to try and get back where we once so proudly were for many years.

    Goodbye history and all the fans that believed in our club and helped give this club some. It's time to move backwards and become happy with lower league obscurity with fans that think the Premiership is way beyond our expectation levels.
     
  36. Hebburn Wolves

    Hebburn Wolves Just doesn't shut up

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    If it goes on past glorys is newcastle a big club as they have won $$$$ all in the past
     
  37. reanswolf

    reanswolf MolMix's Manchester United Cheerleader-in-Chief

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    Sorry but anyone but this is not what i am saying. We are all proud of our history, but thats where it has to stop. We all want Wolves back where we flippin well could be, but the poison of an expectant crowd has long been to our detriment. Wolves have under performed consistently and we should hope & strive (not expect) to be in the top flight.

    But again, we are quite a big club, but in my opinion not big (but that depends where you draw the line). But we are no sleeping giant.
     
  38. Gornal

    Gornal Senior Member

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    The fact is that Peterboro, Crystal Palace & Bristol City are the level that Wolves are at. SS would've jumped at the chance to join Wigan, Reading or Swansea simply because they are at a higher level. I find this wimabig club attitude pathetic & it's why we are viewed as a laughing stock by so many. Everyone needs todrop the my knobs bigger than your **** attitude and just accept our level and then hope that the new manager turns out to be a masterstroke who can bring in the right players and tactics to get us to the middle/upper reaches of the premier league where we all WANT to be but do not DESERVE to be at the moment. On the pitch is the only place that matters and i'm sorry to say we are currently very much second tier!
     
  39. Ralphdog

    Ralphdog Guest

    I think expectation has been replaced by desire. Because of what we once had we desire to get it back. I will never settle for being a 2nd or 3rd tier club. This is what separates us from Walsall, etc. who consider getting in the Championship as success. Our history feeds this desire which should rub off on the players every time they walk through the corridors of Molineux. We ARE a big club even if that is only in the heart and mind of our fans, players and staff. Anyone with a different mind set may like to consider a trip to Bescot or whatever its called this week.
     

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