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Wage structure

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by Grizzled Wolf, Dec 15, 2008.

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  1. We have been in the Prem once before and if it should happen again we have got our own experience and have seen what has happened to other teams to draw some ideas from...I am wondering how others feel about the vital area of players wages. Ignoring for the moment the transfer fees involved...I always feel that the wages demanded have the most bearing on whether or not we can afford a player.

    It seems almost a stone cold certainty that we would have to raise the wage ceiling if we got promoted...in light of this reality what do you guys think it should be set at?Bearing in mind that this same wage structuring has scuppered several clubs in the past.

    To my mind, figuring out what level of wages the club can stand without breaking the bank... is one of the hardest things that CEO's have on their plate.
     
  2. glasgowwolf

    glasgowwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    We have to be serious in who we want, we also have to ensure the current players are looked after.

    Kights, SEB, Foley, etc all need to be given the increase.

    For me we have to be looking at 50k a week plus bonuses
     
  3. PL jaspa888

    PL jaspa888 Has a lot to say

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    According to a broadsheet I was reading a few weeks ago, wages as a percentage of total revenue is c.70% currently in the PL - an unsustainable level. This compared with 45% in 1992. The point was that of the large pot of sky gold, most had gone to the players (and related agents).

    The first task for any promoted club is to convince better players to join them, meaning increasing running costs. In addition to new signings, many existing players will also receive increased wages due to promotion clauses being triggered in their contracts.

    The large percentage of the increased TV revenue from Sky will probably be spent on transfer and signing on fees. Increased revenue from larger gates/higher prices will be used to off-set increased wage costs.

    The real problem for a promoted club is not attracting highly-paid PL mercenaries, but budgeting for and affording them in the crucial second season. Since 70% of promoted clubs are relegated at the end of their first season, they will only receive Sky parachute money (50%) the following season.

    Most of the aforementioned mercenaries will not entertain a reduction in wages, and so the clubs will be stuck with highly-paid players in the CCC who are not even that committed to the cause as they consider that league beneath them.

    The way forward for Wolves would be to sign promising players on decent wages, but with clauses in their contracts causing a 50% reduction in wages on relegation.

    We wouldnt be able attract the best players with this policy, but it would safeguard the club financially.
     
  4. The Bear

    The Bear Just doesn't shut up

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    You think we should raise SEB's wages from currently under £10k to £50k?
     
  5. Wolf Pack leader

    Wolf Pack leader Has a lot to say

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    50k a week is unrealistic at present, we need to get up and stay up to afford those wages.

    Even if we doubled current players wages they would all still be on less than 25k per week.

    To then buy players and pay double the wages would be devisive.

    Max 30k per week. I know it will restrict who qwe can sign, but we cannot afford to destroy the current harmony in the squad
     
  6. djackl

    djackl Just doesn't shut up

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    50k a week? Mad.
     
  7. glasgowwolf

    glasgowwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    If we go up, and are serious in trying to tempt good premiership players, we should be increasing there salary's not to the to earners of 50K, but linked with goals performances, etc, if he scored 20 goals plus in our 1st season, the certainly yes he should be put up there with them.

    What we can't do is go and buy players on 10K a week, unless we want to do an Albion
     
  8. Wolv3nsam

    Wolv3nsam Just doesn't shut up

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    £50k a week? Do you want us to end up like West Ham?
     
  9. glasgowwolf

    glasgowwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Average Premier league Salary ?

    Not far off......


    What's Crouch, Defoe, Parker etal on.

    We are competing with

    West Ham
    Portsmouth
    Wigan
    Fulham
    Blues

    For players we need to match them.

    Or we could do what we did last time, and what the Albion have done this time.....

    Depends how much of a go we want to give it. We have Morgans millions, if we come down then trim the wage bill, but if we want to stay up we need to compete, otherwise this season will have been in vain.
     
  10. Wolv3nsam

    Wolv3nsam Just doesn't shut up

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    The difference being Crouch, Defoe and Parker wouldn't want to play for us. You're living in a dream land, we can't afford to pay out £50k per week unless you want us to end up like West Ham. Even Liverpool and co. pay some of their players £40k.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2008
  11. crocos

    crocos Has a lot to say

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    50K a week?? Glasgow, that Turkish sun is addling your senses. We'd be insane to pay that much, no way.

    We'd want to go above the 10K mark I agree, but there's no call for 50K.
     
  12. Bedford Wolf

    Bedford Wolf Guest

    Surely you'd have it written into the contract that the player gets £XX,000 per week if we stay in the prem, but £y,000 per week if we end up back in the CCC? Plan ahead, and all that.
     
  13. PL jaspa888

    PL jaspa888 Has a lot to say

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    Let's do a Leeds, eh?

    £50k per week?

    That is the equivalent of 6,000 ST monies for ONE player.
     
  14. glasgowwolf

    glasgowwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I thought the question was Salary Cap / Ceiling, not average.

    I am in no way expecting every player to be on 50K.

    I am not suggesting Crouch or Defoe would join us, they are 2 players who could move to top 5.

    I do think we need our salary cap, to be on a par with the Blues, Reading, West Ham (who are not in the $$$$ because of salary's but because of Tevez), Fulham, Wigan etc.

    We need to be realistic, we need to look at our competitors.

    We lost some players to Portsmouth for salary reasons last time, we need to match other teams to have a chance of staying up.

    If we don't match them, don't sign these players, we would be as well staying in the Fizzy pop league.

    Salary's will decrease ( or rather stand still) but until this hits the teams we have to compete
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2008
  15. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    As well as having confidence in this team I have great confidence in SM and his management team. This issue will have been discussed at board meetings from day 1 and there will be a workable plan in place that will not bankrupt the club.
    I would expect SM to have agreed a sensible top wage which our current 'stars' will go onto if we get promoted and we will have the summer months to recruit the required players to fit within the wage policy. Players from say Scotland, overseas may be very happy to join us and play for our wages.
     
  16. buddyrich

    buddyrich Senior Member

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    surely all of the first team players would be getting a substantial pay rise? If I was a Wolves player who'd achieved promotion and wasn't offered a fairly decent pay rise that was at least commensurate with players of lower status premiership teams, I'd be a bit miffed. I'd imagine that Morgan would be prepared to shell out on the wage bill to make Wolves attractive to potential signings whilst keeping the current squad happy. We can't expect to compete without upping the wage ceiling.
     
  17. Maybe if we took a look at teams who have got into the Prem and stayed there...it might give us some insight into what we would need for a wage structure!

    Personally, I am a big believer in paying a man what he is worth...up to the club wage limit anyway...I honestly don't think that just because we would be newbies in the Prem that it would stop players from signing for us. Everyone is looking for the best deal in salaries these days and you can't blame players from wanting the same.

    I would hope that Morgan and Jez have had some long talks about this because if we should go up it will immediately become of paramount importance.
     
  18. crocos

    crocos Has a lot to say

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    With respect Grizz, paying a man "what he is worth" is from another debate. If that's our yardstick, I imagine many of us on this board do work that is "worth" way more in terms of our contributions to society / other people than 90% of footballers - and we get paid, oh about a zillionth of what the average football player is on. "Worth" is a meaningless term as it's relative only to itself.
     
  19. I beg to differ grasshopper...many on this board probably do less in contributions to the company...as opposed to society. If you think that "worth" is a meaningless term then you are most likely to get fired in the near future.

    Worth to me means contributing to the success of the company and producing work that is beneficial to the whole. Without naming names we have had players at Wolves who I would not have paid in washers...as against people like Foley who I would give the best salary possible.

    If you think that "worth" is a meaningless term" I am glad I am not employing you matey!
     
  20. Adrian_Monk

    Adrian_Monk Just doesn't shut up

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    Firstly, wage structure is different to wage ceiling. If it was agreed between the manager and CEO that the addition of one player would make £25,000 per week difference then I think all parties would be satisfied with that, including the existing playing staff (much is made of players on high wages disrupting team spirit- personally I think this is only ever applicable at your Manchester Uniteds and Arsenals) as most players, as one poster correctly pointed out, have it written into their contracts that they will earn significantly more as premiership players than as championship players. I can't imagine George Boateng and Geovanni are earning much less than this at Hull as internationals and established premiership players and there is no shortage of team spirit there.

    I believe this is the kind of major addition Mick will go for if they are available as well as a few promising players in their early twenties. Regardless of whether we go up, stay up the following season or come straight back down, these young players we have in our side at the moment need to grow together as a team. We bought them as players with potential and the idea is to fulfill their potential with us if possible or generate a big sell on fee and do the same again. Bringing in a load of new players on between £20-50,000 pw is ludicrous and totally unrealistic. We aren't in the ball park for players like Scott Parker, etc and we aren't competing with West Ham, Fulham or Portsmouth. There is no way we can go out and spend £15m on two strikers even before we've started on the rest of the side like Fulham did pre-season and neither can we afford the wages of players like Lucas Neill and Diego Tristan. We couldn't even go and spend £8m on a striker like Bolton did. Expectations here are getting ridiculously out of hand, we are barely half way to promotion and already I'm reading garbage like this........unbelievable.
     
  21. Chiswick_Wolf

    Chiswick_Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I'd be disappointed if we payed more than £25-30k per week on a player's wage. It is perfectly possible to pay less and get the right players to come. If one was to cherry pick a team of players from the bottom 10 clubs in the Premier League, I think you could still create a competitive squad. I think that maintaining the same squad attitude that we have now should we go up will be very important.

    ...but then, if we turned it around and come the summer Robbie Keane would be prepared to sign for us on £50k per week plus a big bonus if we stay up, would people's opinion be different?
     
  22. PabloWolfo

    PabloWolfo Guest

    Spot on. The original comment about 50k were the rantings of a FM playing fool who's opinions only make sense in his/her deluded mind.

    If Robbie Keane wanted 50k to play for us, I'd honestly say no thanks. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see RK back at t'Mol but we won't need to spend that kind of money to stay up...If that were the case, it almost wouldn't be worth the financial risk to get promoted and try and stay in the Prem!
     
  23. crocos

    crocos Has a lot to say

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    Okay Grizz, we're coming from different angles - so as to say. But if we keep Foley as an example, there will be numerous different conceptions of what he is "worth" - his, ours-as-fans, and the company's for a start, let alone what other clubs might decide he is "worth". The "best salary possible" may fall short! So for me, "paying a man what he is worth" sounds good but it doesn't actually mean much in concrete terms. If you see what I mean by it.

    But to hell with that, I agree that Foley is a player we should struggle to keep & I just hope his & the club's ideas of his worth coincide!
     
  24. djackl

    djackl Just doesn't shut up

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    'Worth' in this context is nothing but a buzzword.

    You can't independently define what worth is, and it will be entirely subjective to every single character in the ground; some will be close to the truth, others will be darn silly. Just ask Stewarton what he thinks of Keogh's worth to the team, for example.

    As such, when we see you saying that "we should pay what a player is worth", we might as well be staring into a pitiless void, because you're essentially saying nothing. Thank god I'm not employed by you.
     
  25. Del Woppio

    Del Woppio Guest

    Jesus wept. Glasgae, can we at least just get promoted before we saddle the club with ludicrous wages and spiral down the divisions?

    At the end of the day, the long term security of the club is the most important thing. 'Breaking the back', and the long term risks associated with that policy isn't for me - and I don't think it'll be for Jez either. Look at Sunderland - they have a huge, experienced and expensive squad. If they go down, they are $$$$ed. It's just not worth the risk. Your total wage budget should be c35% more than what is sustainable in the Championship. Then, if you go down, one or two sales will make up the shortfall and ensure that you're still in a relatively healthy position. Look at what Albion have spent - c£20m, and some big wages - it's not how much, it's on what. Any talk of £50k per week is about 5 years and UEFA Cup campaign too soon.
     
  26. glasgowwolf

    glasgowwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Never played Football managers game in my life.

    The question ws about a wage structure, I believe as we want to stay in the Premier league, we need a structure in place to allow us to compete.

    It seems people want the same as last time, where we lost players to Portsmouth because of Wages, they have wone the FA Cup, and played in the Uefa cup, we are still trying to get out this league.

    They have increased their salary cap for want of a better phrase.

    We at least need to have a similar cap in place to Wigan, etc......

    Unless we are happy to do an Albion, in which case I will agree that a Salary cap of 15, K a week, will comfortably allow us return to the Championship, lose SEB, Kites, Foley, Ikeme, Hennesey... and re-build and wait yet another three years.

    Before we go back up continue to $$$$ around paying top Championship salary's attracting championship players, only to get relegated.

    Doing it Cheap didn't work last time it is not going to work this time.

    If we get the opportunity to talk to someone who is also having talks with Blues, Reading, Wigan, West Ham, Blackburn et al, I don't want to see them go somewhere else, and we sign Silas, Uncle Bulgaria, Okonorwonko.

    This time I don't want to have to go into work having been stuffed by all and sundry, I want us to make a fist of it, the only way we can do this is to match what our competitors do.

    Not every one will be on that amount, however we need to match what others do not only on the pitch but off it
     
  27. Broseleywolf

    Broseleywolf Guest

    To be honest, I do not want us to be like Portsmouth because they can't sustain the stupid wages they are paying out. Granted, they have won the F.A Cup, but they may well live to regret the big signings and massive wages. There is no way they can sustain a wage bill that is higher than their turnover. They may well turn out like Leeds have done.
     
  28. Clifton Wolf

    Clifton Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Are you on drugs?
     
  29. PabloWolfo

    PabloWolfo Guest

    Glasgow, your points are essentially sound, it's just that £50k is a $$$$-take salary to want to pay in a first prem season. There's doing things on the cheap, there's a salary cap of £50k and there's a whole continent of middle ground in between.
     
  30. glasgowwolf

    glasgowwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I agree, we have to compete, I would hate us to have a salary cap of 25K, only to miss out on Scott Parker who went to Blackburn because they offered him 35K.

    We just need to compete, and if competing means matching others for a Player MM really wants, then so be it.

    All I want is for us to be a lower mid table Prem club, I honestly do not think we will ever make a challenge for Uefa cup, because the salary bill will be to big.

    But a maximum of 50K a week, will allow us to compete with those clubs we need to finish above to stay in the premiership
     
  31. Del Woppio

    Del Woppio Guest

    A £50k per week cap is ridiculously large for a newly promoted club, Glasgow. It really is absurd.
     
  32. steve morgan has talked about a 10 year plan for the club and i think he will have thought this through on numerous occasions with jez and the rest of the board. he has a lot of money (tried to take over liverpool) and i think IF we get promoted he will do everything he can to keep us up, which won't be players on 50k a week nor will it be like 2003-4 as 'PabloWolfo' said 'there's a whole continent of middle ground in between'
     
  33. glasgowwolf

    glasgowwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Lot of money Del, huge amount of money.

    Are we serious about staying up?
    I am not advocating every player having that amount, what I am saying is this, it gives us more bargaining power.

    Players being out our league would no longer be out of our league, we may have 1 we may have none, it just allows us to bargain.

    I remember Geoff Thomas moving out the old Div 1 for us, that was a hell of a coup, who's to say we could not shock the hell out the lower teams and football by getting one big name, experienced central midfielder in as our Captain, to guide us to safety
     
  34. Broseleywolf

    Broseleywolf Guest

    Geoff Thomas is not the best example, he did not help us to get out of the division. Mark Atkins was also a 'coupe' at the time, but he was rubbish, old and on stupid wages.
     
  35. Del Woppio

    Del Woppio Guest

    We can be serious about staying up without putting the long term future of the club in the balance. You can't gamble on survival, as there's a 70% chance that a promoted club will go straight back down - for that reason your wage budget can't be too far removed from Championship sustainability, or you risk the very existance of the club.
     
  36. Pengwern

    Pengwern Just doesn't shut up

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    Team spirit, citizens, is what we have and what we need in the Prem. 'One or two big names' would disrupt that and if one or both got injured for a long time it would be a total waste. Others before us have simply raided the Championship for the players with a team ethic but with ability & potential - Big Ron the 'I'm not a racist' did this with Wednesday a couple of decades ago & I believe it can still be done. 5 or so top Scottish PL & Championship Players like Berra, Scott Brown, Surman, Boddie, Beavor, Watson, McAnuff, Hunt - not these specifically but the ones we need in the positions we are weakest in - would mean a fairly flat wage structure, a good team spirit, plenty of talent and energy. Championship sides need to lose our fear of going up otherwise we become either financial fodder or psychological fodder. Do you really think Kites, Stearman, Jarvis, SEB, Foley & Hennessey etc would not be able to compete in that League? We need to strengthen, but if we do so too dramatically we'll lose what we have.
     
  37. Mugwump

    Mugwump Guest

    I dont see what the issue is with a 50k a week wage myself. If we could get some real quality in in key positions and we stayed up it would be money well spent. Of course, any player we sign on that kind of money would have to accept a massive wage drop as part of the contract if we got relegated. As wop has said, we cant risk the long term future of the club by having a squad full of overpaid players who probably wouldnt fancy playing in the championship anyway.
     
  38. Adrian_Monk

    Adrian_Monk Just doesn't shut up

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    It's totally unrealistic. The only players on £50k a week who would come to wolves are the ones that aren't anywhere near earning it, players that cashed in on the silly money pre credit crunch period at west ham or newcartle and are looking for another club stupid enough to pay it to them again. The ones worthy of £50k per week, that would actually potentially make £50k per week difference, will go to a club that is challenging for honours. The sooner we all get back to the real world and accept our level, the sooner we start appreciating our club a bit more and you never know, maybe even stop pillioring the players and club.
     
  39. Mugwump

    Mugwump Guest

    Its not urealistic for us to sign top class players. Look at the likes of Bolton, Middlesboro fulham and wigan. They have managed to sign some very good players over the last few years and they are not glamour clubs by any stretch of the imagination. Bolton signed Anelka so dont say its unrealistic. It wouldnt be easy, but it can be done. Its up to the manager to convince players to join us.
     
  40. Wolv3nsam

    Wolv3nsam Just doesn't shut up

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    To be honest I think Hull are going the right way about it. Aren't they paying the likes of Geovanni fairly good wages, but if they consequently get relegated they're either free to leave the club or take a cut in wages? I'm sure someone posted the article on here.

    However I am in agreement with Adrian - a £50k cap is beyond us, as is signing the likes of Scott Parker which Glasgow suggested on another thread. People need to get out of this dream land.
     

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