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The most telling figures of all

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by goldeneyed, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. goldeneyed

    goldeneyed Just doesn't shut up

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    Setting aside points achieved the goal differentials at the top of the table show just how far away from being a potential promotion side we are.

    F A
    Bournemouth 65 32 + 33
    Middlesbrough 48 20 + 28
    Derby 58 28 + 30
    Ipswich 50 31 + 19
    Watford 63 37 + 26
    Norwich 59 36 + 23

    Brentford 46 42 + 4
    Wolves 38 40 -2

    Even Blackburn with 0 and Forest (after a terrible season) + 1 are ahead of us on goal difference.

    When you think we are still only mid February this is a huge gap in performance and the only thing which is surprising is that we are not much further off in terms of points from 6th place.

    In only 31 games Bournemouth have scored 27 more goals than us and also conceded 8 less. That is in anyone's language a huge gap. If it hadn't been for that terrible run of five heavy defeats in a row things would be looking better of course. However our lack of goals has been telling all season. Take away that 4-1 win away at Huddersfield last week and we can't point to one significant scoreline where we have been entirely comfortable rather than scrapping a win.

    The above surely shows precisely how far we are behind these clubs. Our defence has had its ups and downs but at the moment is just about ok. Our midfield has deteriorated after a fine start and is now a major cause for worry with no reinforcements coming in. Our forward line has effectively consisted of Dicko until he was injured. Now Afobe and Dicko. Perhaps we should be surprised we have amassed 38 goals.

    The club should take these figures to heart and forget the points issue as a major barometer. We need a huge injection in attack and in midfield to be serious promotion contenders in the future. Perhaps four new players to add to the midfield/attacking mix and they need to be better than what we have got. A long summer awaits.
     
  2. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    More chance of lord lucan appearing on shergar down waterloo road than us investing heavily this summer I'm afraid
     
  3. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Like I've said we're pretty much the best of the rest, not a bad platform to build from.

    KJ has brought in 15 players in 18 months not including Hause or any other academy player, people seem to forget that.
     
  4. BrummieNick

    BrummieNick Just doesn't shut up

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    How many players have left during that 18 month period ?
     
  5. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    Most of them for peanuts or on free transfers. I struggle to think of any club we have gone into competition with to sign a player competing at a higher standard than the spotted ferret inn who we have managed to " gazump" as we don't compete on wages with any of them. All we seem to promote is " the wolves way " which involves cheap and cheerful players coming in hope they may improve and if we sign enough of them by logic some may scrape into the first team stopping Morgan spending significantly
     
  6. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    No idea, but he's been backed & allowed to sign players. Shall I name some top championship midfielders who all cost less than Saville?

    So name me some big money players the top 7 have signed?
     
  7. Jonzy54

    Jonzy54 Just doesn't shut up

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    None have spent mega bucks but certainly Derby and Midds have picked up some decent loanees.
     
  8. Matt

    Matt Just doesn't shut up

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    Taken from the Telegraph:

    Bournemouth
    Callum Wilson (Coventry City, Undisclosed), Dan Gosling (Newcastle United), Junior Stanislas (Burnley), Andrew Surman (Norwich)

    Middlesbrough
    Enrique Garcia (Real Murcia, £3.5m), Richard Smallwood (Rotherham United, £175,000), James Husband (Doncaster Rovers, Undisclosed + swap), Tomás Mejías (Real Madrid, Undisclosed), Emilio Nsue (Real Mallorca, Undisclosed), Adam Clayton (Huddersfield Town, Swap + Undisclosed), Damia Abella (Osasuna), Kenneth Omeruo (Chelsea, Loan), Ryan Fredericks (Tottenham Hotspur, Loan), Patrick Bamford, Jamal Blackman (Both Chelsea, Loan), Jelle Vossen (Genk, Middlesbrough, Loan), Yanic Wildschut (Herenveen, Undisclosed)

    Derby
    George Thorne (West Bromwich Albion, £2m), Cyrus Christie (Coventry City, Undisclosed), Alefe Santos (Bristol Rovers, Compensation), Alban Bunjaku (Sevilla), Jonathan Mitchell (Newcastle United), Zak Whitbread (Leicester City), Ivan Calero (Atlético Madrid), Alefe Santos (Bristol Rovers), Leon Best (Blackburn Rovers, Loan), Omar Mascarell (Real Madrid, Loan), Mark O'Brien (Motherwell, Loan), Ryan Shotton (Stoke City, Loan), Jordon Ibe (Liverpool, Loan), Tom Koblenz (Hoffenheim)

    Ipswich
    Bartosz Bialkowski (Notts County, Undisclosed), Alex Henshall (Manchester City), Cameron Stewart (Hull City), Jonathan Parr (Crystal Palace), Darren McQueen (Tottenham Hotspur), Kévin Bru (Levski Sofia), Balint Bajner (Borussia Dortmund), Conor Sammon (Derby County, Loan), Anthony Wordsworth (Rotherham United)

    Watford
    Juan Carlos Paredes (Granada, Undisclosed), Rene Gilmartin (St Patrick's, Undisclosed), Heurelho Gomes (Tottenham Hotspur), Gabriel Tamas (Doncaster Rovers), Craig Cathcart (Blackpool), Lloyd Dyer (Leicester City), Matej Vydra (Udinese, Loan), Daniel Tozser (Parma, Loan), Keith Andrews (Brighton & Hove Albion, Loan), Odion Ighalo (Udinese, Loan), Rene Gilmartin (St Patrick's, Undisclosed), Gianni Munari (Parma, Loan)

    Norwich
    Cameron Jerome (Stoke, £1.5m), Anthony Pilkington (Cardiff City, £1m), Conor McGrandles (Falkirk, £1m), Louis Thompson (Swindon Town, £600,000), Vadis Odjidja-Ofoe (Club Brugge, Undisclosed), Lewis Grabban (AFC Bournemouth, Undisclosed), Carlos Cuéllar (Sunderland), Kyle Lafferty (Palermo, Undisclosed), Gary O'Neil (Queens Park Rangers), Ignasi Miquel (Arsenal, Undisclosed), Jos Hooiveld (Southampton, Loan)

    Brentford
    Jota (Celta Vigo, Undisclosed), Moses Odubajo (Leyton Orient, £1m), Scott Hogan (Rochdale, £750,000), Andre Gray (Luton Town, £500,000), Jose Peleteiro Ramallo (Celta Vigo, Undisclosed), Alan Judge (Blackburn Rovers, Undisclosed), Marcos Tébar Ramiro (UD Almeria), Daniel O'Shaughnessy (FC Metz), Tommy Smith (Cardiff City), Alex Pritchard (Tottenham Hotspur, Loan), Jon Toral (Arsenal, Loan), Betinho (Sporting Lisbon, Loan)

    Wolves
    George Saville (Chelsea, Undisclosed), Tommy Rowe (Peterborough United), Rajiv Van La Parra (Heerenveen)

    So in short, pretty much all of the top 7 spent quite a bit on combined fees and wages compared to us.
     
  9. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    The OP does highlight some glaringly obvious issues and on recent performances the problems still persist. I would be amazed if KJ doesn't know there are issues but he seems unable to resolve them right now?

    For me the reason KJ hasn't done anything, on the surface, to sort the problems is I still think he doesn't know his best team, tactics or formation.
     
  10. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Yeah & we picked up some $$$$ ones but I'd be willing to bet Graham & Sagbo were on just as much if not more money than Ibe, Lingard, Bamford, Ince & various foreigners M'Boro have. Obviously depends what % the deals were but Grahams reported wage is 40k p/w after his big money move from Swansea.
     
  11. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    Why do you keep referring to other clubs to back up your argument? Bournemouth spent 3 million on Wilson , a player jackett wanted but morgan wouldn't sanction. Brentford have spent over 4 million this season on jota ,Odubajo, Hogan etc. Derby have heavily invested, they spent 2 million on thorne alone , Boro have spent over 7 million on players including the likes of kike , Forshaw , clayton tomlin etc .. shall I go on?

    None of these clubs have the millions of parachute payments coming in yet our marquee signing is a player with 5 goals in 40 odd championship games .. as I said jackett is massively overachieving as we have and always will be blown out of the water every transfer market until Morgan decides to finally sell up
     
  12. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Cheers for this Matt. Only just saw it after I'd made my post.

    Looking at the majority of names on that list I'm not the slightest bit bothered Wolves didn't sign them but likewise there are a fair few I wish they had. Other than adding Afobe to that list of Wolves players then overall Wolves dealings look poor.

    When you take into account more players have left then joined and that of those that have joined 50% of them are unavailable for differing reasons it really is no wonder Wolves are failing to compete.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2015
  13. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    You're right , the agreed 54 day loan for graham shows fantastic ambition from morgan especially as Sunderland were contributing to his wages for all of the 54 days and nights.
     
  14. gewolf

    gewolf Senior Member

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    ''Watford - Keith Andrews (Brighton & Hove Albion,''

    There we are then - that's what we missed and why we are rubbish.........
     
  15. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    So you don't think that we have paid as much (more) for the total of Sagbo & Graham compared to other clubs & their loans? Just like we didn't spend more than 23 other club in the January window I suppose :rolleyes:

    The budget is there as much as anyones, KJ is just not spending it that well it's plain to see.

    You're slagging Van Gaal off on the Preston thread for Man Utd's efforts this season yet he spent £155m.
     
  16. Sedgley Gold N Black

    Sedgley Gold N Black Just doesn't shut up

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    As Matt's list shows it's pretty clear why we are so far off those above and why Brentford have managed to catch us up despite the difference last season.

    They have each brought in numerous players which have improved their XIs and squads with the exception of Bournemouth, who were in a similar position to what we are going to find ourselves in this summer, with a squad a year more experienced and knowing exactly what is needed to improve - they went and got that.

    We've done it ourselves before, from 2007/08 - 2008/09, we actually averaged less goals in that season than we are now but a few key additions in the summer particularly Stearman, Jones and Iwelumo, transformed us (although we did also waste a few quid too that summer).
     
  17. Wolves Heathen

    Wolves Heathen Has a lot to say

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    Some of those figures are out of date though still useful to compare, for instance havent Derby signed Darren Bent, Jesse Lingard and Steven Warnock ? all on loan to bolster there promotion push.
    I am prepared to cut KJ some slack for this season, due to the bomb squad and assesment of players that we have.

    However for next season thats a different ball game, we can all see we have players that are not good enough, for a pass and move game, with good technique, and that for me is the minimum requirement for both the Championship and Greed League. How many times did i hear on sunday when watching the Vile game that Villas midfield were simply NOT going past there forwards Bentele and Weimman, so therefore offering NO alternatives when they attacked, how many times do Macca/Price/Evans get in front of Dicko or Edwards, to get the second ball ? it seems to me we have similarities with Villa in that we both have poor scoring records.
    There is NO need to go out and spend millions Ipswich have proved it can be done on a budget, last year Burnley proved the same, so spending millions does NOT automatically bring success though it does help.

    Its my firm belief the best system is 3 5 2 stroke 5 3 2 a fluid system within that being when we dont have the ball we go 5 3 2, but when we have possesion its 3 5 2, this means we have 2 wide men at all times, and always have a midfield three supporting both attack and defence. I am a firm believer in possesion football, but the right players comfortable on the ball are needed for this, something Wolves have lacked over the seasons.

    I hope to see some more additions to the squad, in the close season with at least a couple of midfielders included, and another decent wide player who can not only beat his man, but do something with the ball after he has done that.
     
  18. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    What do you mean " the money is there but kj isn't spending it" He has already stated he had a list of players he wanted to come but "they haven't materialised ". What more can Jackett do then go for players like Wilson so clearly the money and more importantly the wage structure isn't there or they would be at wolves wouldn't they. Do you think we haven't brought these players in because Jackett has said " Despite the fact ive gone on public record wanting to bring you in, I've now changed my mind and don't want to spend morgans available money?" .. laughable
     
  19. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    Mr Wolf... what has van gaal and united got to do with anything. Everytime you have no answer to a question you try to draw parallels with something unrelated almost akin to a politician trying to slither out of giving an answer. Are you suggesting because van ghoul at united hasn't a clue what his best formation is after spending significant money then that strengthens your argument the no spending philosophy of accrington Stanley / Mansfield can be just as fruitful? We all know spending money unwisely is no guarantee of success but we also know spending next to nothing relying on an academy status a third of the entire league have as a " revolutionary way forward" is utterly deluded and farcical. As usual you don't accept there is a middle ground which wolves don't adopt and no doubt you will revert to type with " it isn't football manager and " some people wouldn't be happy if we signed messi" argument again like a broken record screeching out through the fog in an effort to convert a few nodding zombies with eyes rolled back into the head droning in unison that rome wasn't built in a day
     

  20. Do you feel the onus/obligation is on Morgan to invest money or do you think the club should be self sufficient. Do you blame the coaching staff or the recruitment team for us not emulating the likes of Bournemouth. In short what is the cause of us being where we are? Money or People?
     
  21. Somebody should put up a chart explaining how much we have had to spend on wages the past two seasons compared to what is coming in and then contrast it all with our competitors. Add in the relegation to L1 and the lower revenues that came from that and you begin to see how far we have to catch up to even compete on a level playing field.
     
  22. BrummieNick

    BrummieNick Just doesn't shut up

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    But we're talking about Wolves I don't know either but I'll gaurentee it's more than he's bought in. Saville has been a real disappointment but I still think he could come good in the future. The fans Parliament mins clearly state that were not pushing the boat out to sign players but of course that's KJs fault isn't it.
     
  23. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I have saw you use this argument across various threads and to a point you are right. However whilst there was no fees involved, Derby forked out the wages for Darren Bent, Tom Ince and Jesse Lingard. Players that would have undoubtedly improved our first 11. I admire the fact we are trying to put together a tight knit group on similar wages given what went wrong in the past, but would just one of those really effected the philosophy that much? I am not one of those that is gonna rant and rave over us not signing 5 new players for a combined £10m - I just worry we have become far too stubborn in our approach to recruiting.
     
  24. In terms of spending power we cannot compete with teams like Derby and Bournemouth just yet. We are not an attractive proposition to these players as a result of that.
     
  25. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Is there actually a legitimate reason for that though? I know Derby have been building for a few years, but as I say above those transfers were all loans which I am sure some was subsidised by the parent clubs, so finance should not have came into that, so there is no reason we should not have at least attempted to sign them.

    As for Bournemouth, they signed Callum Wilson who has been a revelation at £3m and 20 plus goals to boot. £3m is not out of our price range. That is Benik Afobe plus George Saville and probably a similar wage to Leon Clarke. So again, what stopped us there?

    I think we have simply became too stubborn to new players.

    Wilson has today been linked with Chelsea by the way.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2015

  26. Yes, two relegations, falling revenues and about ten players all on high wages that don't/didn't actually feature in our playing squad. How many Bournemouth players earn as much as soon to be off on a free Sako?
     
  27. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    There you have said it yourself middle ground, sign a young talent £2m play some of our own prospects. Sign a midfielder £1m play some of our own prospects. Loan in some Premiership players, get a couple of decent (on paper) free transfers in. Keep hold of a player on 25k per week whilst forking out 100k on some other wasters per week, middle ground you see it now.

    Some fans just won't be happy until Morgan gives another manager £15m & £10m wage budget to blow once again.
     
  28. Matt

    Matt Just doesn't shut up

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    Slightly off topic but re loans I think we need to rethink our strategy on those. It's my understanding that we won't sign anyone on loan unless there's a chance of making it permanent - why? Who really gives a $$$$ if we bring someone in on loan, they help us to promotion and go back to Arsenal/Chelsea/United? I'm not saying build a team around loanees but I think we've got that completely wrong.
     
  29. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Fair points, although you didn't include parachute payments of, what, £30m across the past 3 years? Surely that more than evens it out.

    *figure of PP could be more or less, I am never entirely sure what it is.
     
  30. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I think Wood was KJ's first choice & cheaper also as Wilson was seen as similar to Dicko who cost a 12th of that price.

    We had a bid of £3m accepted for Delort don't forget.
     
  31. There'll be calls for Harry Redknapp and a war chest come May.
     
  32. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    With the benefit of hindsight I just don't want KJ to make the same mistake again with a player we have every right to bring in.
     
  33. goldeneyed

    goldeneyed Just doesn't shut up

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    On the money side its about finding the right balance - when to go the extra mile to get in a player and when to show restraint. Its understood that the bomb squad have been a terrible drag on our finances this season. Due to past incompetence and failure where the two Ms played a major part. However understandable if that restricts our immediate financial possibilities. However, the club have had months to see how best to work around this and to at the very least set up a couple of top class loans in the way Middlesbrough have done.

    Saville was always a strange signing for me and so far seems to have frittered away a precious £1m that could have been used usefully elsewhere to prop up some loan deals for players who might actually have made an impact. Rowe and Van La Parra were frees. Only the latter has added anything and that very intermittently. Afobe - good move but the very least that should have been expected with our ridiculous paucity of strikers. Derlort? Thelwell recommended spending £3m on him? Very lucky escape.So on the money side 6/10 and could have used whatever resources we had much better.

    The rest is down to KJ and his coaching team. After a bright start we hit a wall, had a disastrous November and five successive heavy defeats and have since then only half recovered. At home we are meeting poor teams with one striker and finding it very hard to break down teams. Away we are more comfortable. The defence has tightened a bit but depends on two defensive midfielders to help keep it afloat. Not surprisingly as a result goals are few and far between (bar the Huddersfield match). Again 6/10
     
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  34. JOSWolf

    JOSWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I question our scouting and recruitment team. Brentford sign the likes of Pritchard, Jota and Gray and we end up with Saville, Clarke and Rowe!
    Enough said! They must take some of the blame here, in my opinion.
     
  35. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I've said before I think SM wanted the Group 3 players off the wage bill before he would loosen the purse strings which I suppose is fair enough. Under these circumstances I also think SM would have been content with a mid-table consolidation season bringing the youngsters on. The fact that we had such a great start has not altered SM's thinking at all and he has stuck to his guns. I believe that he doesn't expect promotion from this squad and would be content with an 8th place finish but with the clear out complete at end of season he will be more likely to give KJ the money to then strengthen the squad.
     
  36. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Well those are the facts Jos. KJ has final say on transfers, he picks & sets up the team & he tells them how to play. The rest is pretty much all conjecture & personal opinion. I believe this, Moxey has told him that, Morgan won't give him this when in reality you don't know what goes on & some of you are sick enough to believe the board don't want the club to be in the Premier League.
     
  37. reanswolf

    reanswolf MolMix's Manchester United Cheerleader-in-Chief

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    I think you are misinterpreting what everyone is saying. Of course they want us to be in the premier league, just not that badly.

    We know they can't splash the cash big time, but as Goldeneyed so eloquently highlighted in his post above - its just that little extra bit of effort to bring in a bit of quality (perhaps on loan) where it is so desperately needed, that they seem so blind too.

    It is fairly indefensible, but bizarrely you continue to defend anything and everything.
     
  38. Perton Wolf

    Perton Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Jackett needs somebody above him as the Director of Football who knows as much about the game and transfer market as he does at least.

    Thelwell doesn't, and Moxey still has too big of a say in transfers, there lies a big problem.
     
  39. ProudWolf

    ProudWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Jez doesn't have a say in who we buy. He does the deals after they all get together and decide how much is right to spend on said player.
     
  40. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Again what do we know? All summer we wanted a striker, we didn't get one. Forgetting what people think they know about the money the fact is we didn't sign 1 single forward for any type of budget. This was the one definite player we needed, you can blame the board for not giving KJ £5m but imo he's the one to blame for not upgrading Clarke all summer then failing with Sagbo & Graham. Strange as this sounds to some but money was there for bids for Wood, Maguire, Delort, Saville & wages/fee's during the loan window.

    Again the summer before, Morgan backs him with a Murphy bid of over a £1m, Clarke, Henry, McDonald, Dicko, Golbourne, Ricketts etc.

    This window he spends £2m on Afobe, he says he's happy with a small squad, he says he doesn't like loaning other teams youngsters, he has shown over the summer his failure to deal with a glaring hole in the team for 4 months & now some of you are telling me it's the boards fault for not backing him.

    All the evidence points to KJ & that recruitment team in my eyes for the failure to address these gaps in the squad.
     

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