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Steve Froggatt on BBC WM on Morgan

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by WalsallWolf, Feb 4, 2015.

  1. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Not sure if anyone just heard but Froggy was talking about how he yesterday spoke to Steve Morgan about his future plans for the club and his ambitions going forward. Morgan told Froggatt that the plans going forward is the academy, millions have been spent on the academy on the back of failure of not achieving success by doing it a different way (I would imagine that is referring to big fees spent on Doyle/Johnson/O'Hara etc) and that is now the blueprint going forward. This is something the owner completely adheres to and wants to see the benefits of, short term and long term. He even mentioned a team that has entirely come from the Academy.

    Now that should not be a massive shock. But I think for some it does need spelling out a little. I do believe we should have signed one of Ince or Lingard on Monday night, because neither one of those would not have hurt or damaged the philosophy we have.

    Steve Morgan clearly does have ambition and that above is his ambition and I cannot imagine the initial cost, the running cost and the cost to keep that going would be "doing it on the cheap" either. I think we should just accept and respect that fundamentally that is the Wolves way and in many ways it actually always has, traditionally - and I respect Steve Morgan for having that vision.

    I guess my point is we could have many, many worse owners than Steve Morgan, trust me.
     
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  2. Rhoswolf

    Rhoswolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Or a great vision develop talent and then sell it it at a profit. In the meantime invest in the infra-structure and you have a saleable asset. Which is right, time will tell.
     
  3. JOSWolf

    JOSWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I understand this view but surely this shouldn't stop us investing in much needed players when we need them?
    Such as a no10. Someone like Nick Powell could make a massive difference.
    I would now hope to see a couple of more young lads in the first team squad such as Eusebio, Graham, Wilson, Reid, Keita etc.
     
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  4. Hrothgar

    Hrothgar Just doesn't shut up

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    Have to agree with your point, absolutely so. However Im not sure how realistic it is to build a home grown team good enough to challenge for promotion to the PL ( if indeed that is still part of the plan as such?) - it does however surely make sense to try wherever possible to grow our own rather than waste countless millions upon second rate mercenaries from abroad ( or UK for that matter) Some posters are going to have to radically reassess their own expectations though, that much is abundantly clear!
     
  5. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    It is Steve Morgan's money remember. He made a promise to SJH to invest a minimum of £30m which went directly into the Wolves books and I would presume with the stand/training ground/academy he has now exceeded that. What he spends in the future is now absolutely his prerogative to do what he wants.
     
  6. JOSWolf

    JOSWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    He clearly wants the academy to bear fruit and I do like that idea and we do have talent.
    Time for Kenny to turn to some of the young attacking players and stick one or two on the bench.
    Morgan will be judged though on how we do on the pitch and his philosophy will have to deliver.
     
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  7. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I didn't hear it WW so thanks for posting this.

    The idea sounds great and if it were to work then truly fantastic for the club in so many ways. My concern though is this seems very much a case of placing all your eggs in one basket. What if it doesn't work? Is there a plan B?

    As you know I often say I want my concerns about Morgan to be proven wrong and this plan might well work but could take several years to come to full fruition. What's going to happen in the meantime? I certainly don't relish the thought of seeing the club relegated again and whilst that might not be likely now I'm sure many of us felt that after relegation from the PL.

    All in all a great idea as I say but I sincerely hope Morgan hasn't put all his eggs in one place.

    As for the comment about worse owners, I fully agree but likewise believe there are better as well.
     
  8. MolineuxMixer

    MolineuxMixer Just doesn't shut up

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    You don't win anything with kids!
     
  9. JOSWolf

    JOSWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Also we need to keep players. If we start selling the likes of Iorfa etc then it will all seem pretty poor.
    We will have to get promoted in the next couple of seasons, really or lose all the best young players anyway.
     
  10. SingYourHeartsOut

    SingYourHeartsOut Just doesn't shut up

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    It is ridiculous to imagine that an entire team can come from the academy. Some players will not make it, some will be in competition for the same places. For example how long will Hause (not academy I know) and Ebanks-Landell wait for Baath and Stearman to make way for them? We don't seem t have anyone coming through to play no.10. Good defenders can be coached if they have the right physical talents IMO whereas strikers are harder to coach and harder to find. Everyone loves a good academy product, Iorfa is a great example, but you need some signings too (which in fairness is why we signed Afobe).
     
  11. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Well when you look at clubs like Blackburn, Norwich, Cardiff, Wigan, Fulham, Forest all with multi million pound squads & players that cost over £5m in their teams not doing much at all in this league it's no wonder that for less than the price of an Assombalonga, Hooper, Rhodes etc we have built a top academy.

    No reason why we can't pluck the odd Afobe out also to build as we go.

    What am I saying, I mean Morgan out typical just using it to build up his portfolio so he can sell up & not invest. There is no was anything of what SJH has done or how he has seen the fans & people of wolverhampton react to his death has rubbed off on him :rolleyes:
     
  12. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Very fair response Essex and the most important point you have made about all eggs in one basket, I certainly hope (expect!) that Morgan would not be so naive to think that, although I know you could counter that and say he has been naive in the past with some of his decisions - although to me this is less of a knee jerk one. In any case the impression you got from Froggatt was not that it was the be all and end all, simply a blueprint to go from. I for one would love to finally see some quality youngsters come through.
     
  13. molinew

    molinew Senior Member

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    I think it's a sort of utopian idea that runs along the 'shoot for the moon and you'll end up among the stars' way of thinking.

    We probably won't ever have a full team of academy players, but if that is the ultimate dream scenario, we should always have some young lads in and around the team which is a huge positive as far as I'm concerned
     
  14. Vita45

    Vita45 Groupie

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    So Froggy was at Sir Jack's funeral - according to a write-up by somebody called Keith Harrison in the Distress and Star funeral supplement today, "Carl" Froggatt was among the former players in church.Don't think David Instone would have made a mistake like that.
     
  15. PREM.L.L

    PREM.L.L Just doesn't shut up

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    If Morgan is the devil and is in it for the money, he's going about things the wrong way. I like the guy and think he's going about things in the right way.........wouldn't of minded a couple more through the door like!
     
  16. Jonzy54

    Jonzy54 Just doesn't shut up

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    I passed both him and Ally Robertson on the way to the ground and they both said 'Hello'
     
  17. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Spot on. If the academy does produce a player that makes the grade then no point in selling them on and just becoming a production line for the benefit of others. Fair enough selling those on who aren't what's needed or good enough but a club needs to keep the best if they truly want to progress.

    Agreed and whilst I suppose it's possible I reckon the odds are very high.



    Fully agreed WW. If Morgan does carry on down the naïve route he won't do anything to endear those of us who already have doubts. Let us all hope he has not only learnt lessons from his mistakes but that he doesn't repeat them and his idea shows dividends.
     
  18. Jim Bowen

    Jim Bowen Just doesn't shut up

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    I always see the academy as something you can bulk up the squad with, you may get a few players good enough for the first team and a few as cover but that's usually about it. You may even get one or two players every 10 years or so who are good enough for the Premiership but if you don't buy good players to put with them and get promoted quickly then they'll be snapped up by someone in the Premier League.

    If the plan is to build a team with players from the academy that's going to get us up then keep us there then I think we are in for another long stint in the Championship.
     
  19. wallace

    wallace Just doesn't shut up

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    if that's the plan then he is deluded.
     
  20. Sandwell Wolf

    Sandwell Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    My thoughts on Steve Morgan have been well documented. During the Premier League I feel he was massively out his depth as a chairman, and as we fell into the Championship and then League One, he, along with Jez Moxey, made some absolutely awful decisions that could have cost the club massively and set us back years.

    Thankfully, in Kenny Jackett, they appointed an excellent manager who has got us out of the mess (they created) at the first time of asking, and is also moulding together a very good football team capable of competing at the top end of the 2nd division and hopefully even higher.

    As it is now, whether simply down to luck or (I hope this is closer to the truth) due to the board taking a long hard look at themselves, I feel they are starting to learn from their mistakes and I for one am wholeheartedly behind putting money into a top class a academy and bringing through our own excellent players.

    The likes of Danny Batth, Carl Ikeme, Jack Price & Dominic Iorfa, and to a certain extent Lee Evans... I love watching these players play for Wolves. I don't mind paying my money to watch players who, for everything they may lack in top quality, give everything for that Wolves shirt and you can't ask for much more.

    I also feel that having local lads in our shirt such as some of the above alongside other fairly locals in Richard Stearman and Dave Edwards... The passion seems to be passed on to the foreign lads, and it certainly helps the likes of Sako, Dicko and co to understand what Wolves is about. You can see that togetherness and I'm so happy the bond is back between players and supporters.

    Jackett was a fantastic appointment, and I do feel he has been backed well by the board (so far anyway). If we could lower the ticket prices behind the goals to the £20 mark next season and if we manage to make the play offs this year, Morgan and co will have gone a long way to earning back some of my trust. The damage isn't fully repaired but they are going the right way currently about fixing the problems they created themselves, and long may it continue.

    Everyone deserves a second chance, I just really hope Morgan learned from his mistakes the last time we were in the top flight, and more importantly, I hope he understands that he is lucky to be in charge of Wolverhampton Wanderers, he should feel honoured to have that privilege, to be the chairman of one of the greatest football clubs in the world, I hope he knows that.
     
  21. we love jez moxey

    we love jez moxey Just doesn't shut up

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    Why? We can already put out a more than adequate back 5 totally home grown, why can't we expand on that?
     
  22. Paul76

    Paul76 Just doesn't shut up

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    Long term strategy. What about short term?
     
  23. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Well if he doesn't know by now (which he should) then he should absolutely bloody know that given the events throughout the last month. He looked understandably overwhelmed by the tributes to SJH at the Blackpool game so if it didn't sink in then the gift he has been given then words fail me. I always go back to the point that SJH did choose him for us though lets not forget, a decision that took him a good 4 years.

    Good post btw Sandwell.
     
  24. BlahBlah

    BlahBlah Just doesn't shut up

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    It's a big gamble, Football isn't the same sport it was 20yrs ago and we are in a weaker position financially compared to the place we want to be at.
    We can put out a Championship backline, no good teams are really interested in our players because they're not Premier League class...we're muddling along in 7th place.
    We are a financial minnow, and if we produce good players they'll be poached...the economic gap is vast and a massive fee for Wolves wouldn't even make the bigger teams blink.

    Stoke City now bring in more than Lazio, they've made a fortune by consolidating and investing in good players and if we remember, this was the "example" Moxey said he wanted to follow a few seasons ago, then didn't, mainly because of the bad investments by McCarthy and the lack of tactical nous to progress....one more season and we'd have been embedded in the Premier League but we blew it.
    We got the manager wrong, not the idea of knowing you need to invest to move forward.

    Would an academy produce two players for every position? Maybe if we're in Div 1. No way in hell could we do that in the Premier League.
    It's a nice idea, but is it an actual plan or just an aspiration like so many of Wolves previous "plans".
    You need a mixture of both i reckon.
     
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  25. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I said a couple of times during the window discussions on here SM needs to come out and tell us fans what his plans are on the way ahead. It is clearly obvious that with the money spent on the youth system he wants results and a Wolves team full of academy graduates. It's also self-evident he's not going to be happy with the money $$$$ed against the wall for the likes of RJ and JOH. Whilst I'd love to see a Wolves team full of young lads from Wolverhampton it ain't realistic and it ain't going to happen, unless SM is content to see us languishing mid-table in the Champs at best.
    SM also needs to remember in the last 20 years we've produced just 2 quality players - JL and RK. Just because we've now got a shiny new building with loads of pitches and coaches in flashy kits it does not necessarily follow that we will buck the trend and start to find a squad of decent talent?
     
  26. Sammy Chungs Tracksuit

    Sammy Chungs Tracksuit Just doesn't shut up

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    The days of "The Lions of Lisbon" and home grown teams have long gone other than at League 1 level and below. There is no way Wolves can be successful based completely on the acadamy. If we are lucky it will yield 1 quality player per year on average and the FA stipulate that a Cat 1 academy has a minimum annual budget of £2.5m. As a premier league club it makes sense to have a Cat 1 academy, as a championship club it could prove to be unsustainable long term especially when the parachute money dries up as £2.5m will be a substantial part of our turnover. The jury is out as to if it can work for the club and it may be 4 or 5 years down the line before we discover the answer to that.

    I do believe youth development is important but with 20+ other Cat 1 academies in England statistics would suggest that it is impossible for them all to be cranking out an endless stream of quality players no matter how much investment is made.

    I would question if Steve Morgan genuinely believes in his own mind that the academy will work or is it just his current front/excuse for minimal investment in the transfer market. Also even if it works at championship level does he seriously believe that any academy can provide the players to survive at premiership level?
     
  27. rincewind

    rincewind Just doesn't shut up

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    A first 11 from the academy is probably more of an aspiration than expectation. However if we ever want to do more than just make up the numbers in the Premiership, we need a good number of home grown players with a few good transfers. Rather like Southampton.
     
  28. oldwulf

    oldwulf Groupie

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    Wolves traditionally have produced good home-grown players, but supplemented them via an excellent scouting system, poaching promising young talent from other clubs.

    Thinking of the great team I first watched in 1957, the two real giants were Wright and Broadbent: Wright was a one-club man (apart from an amatuer spell at Cradley Heath) while Broadbent was signed from Brentford as a 17 year old. The goalie Finlayson was signed from Milwall at the age of 26. Stuart was spotted in South Africa and came over as a 19 year old, while Harris, Clamp, Flowers, Deeley, Murray, Mason and Mullen all joined Wolves as their first professional club. So it was very much a home-grown team, with just Broadbent, Finlayson and Stuart as imports (and not at big money either).

    Spurs were one of the first to splash the cash in the early 60s, with considerable success, and Wolves were forced to delve into the transfer market, coincidentally or not nosing into decline at the same time.

    Would this system of essentially home-grown talent work today? Who knows, but it is apparently Morgan's vision. By not paying out on massive transfer fees could we afford to pay big wages to our top young stars to hold the lure of money-bags clubs at bay? Could be the dawn of a new football financial era.
     
  29. Sandwell Wolf

    Sandwell Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    To the doubters of this system, what about Athletic Bilbao?
     
  30. Big Nosed Wolf

    Big Nosed Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Without astute signings at the right time it is a recipe for the club to end up 'feeding' from the second division.
     
  31. jrpb-3

    jrpb-3 Just doesn't shut up

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    Looking at other signings we've made I think that the acadamy isn't just going to be about developing local kids its also going to be buying players with potential in the teens to early 20s and looking to bring those through to first team via the academy and by loaning them out to get some experience. Also Id expext there to be a fair turnover of players not all who show potential will contine to improve and break into first team so they will need to be moved on.A whole team of acadamy graduates seems unlikely but no reason why we cant bring through enough to make the core of the team, but will need to buy in players for positions where we dont have youngsters coming through or they arnt good enough or not ready
     
  32. Chungster

    Chungster Just doesn't shut up

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    Please don't confuse self sufficiency with ambition.
     
  33. spittlep

    spittlep Senior Member

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    I've got nothing against Morgan, I just wish he would get rid of Moxey and get some football people in at boardroom level.
     
  34. DawleyWolf

    DawleyWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Southampton is the model here - not a bad model at all - as others have mentioned the cheque book policy of teams like QPR has not worked - I like SMs approach, long may it continue - with the occasional strategic signing of course
     
  35. North West Wanderer

    North West Wanderer Just doesn't shut up

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    Your last paragraph sums it up. There's zero patience in this world. And this philosophy requires it
     
  36. BrummieNick

    BrummieNick Just doesn't shut up

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    Ajax are a feeder club for Europes elite wouldn't mind being like them.
     
  37. WonderWolf

    WonderWolf WoWoWoobsykins

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    +1.

    There is no way you can produce an academy team capable of delivering the quality required to be progressive in the 'great competition and the best league in the world' and compete for the top six. The stated objective should not change but the understanding of what it will take has to, and it can't be totally about the academy.

    Morgan has to accept that what screwed us was the model we went with through the man we had in charge. It was his game-plan and acquisitions that made us what we were in the PL.....spending big on the wrong type does not then make it a false/wrong stratagem.

    The ONLY model to follow is that of Swansea and Southampton for a club of the stature of WWFC. It is then going to be about getting the product right and making the right decisions at every stage.....and this will be about 'true' ambition with relevant nous and financial injections.

    Any embarrassing talk again of following the likes of a relatively tinpot outfit operating from the outskirts of Brum should be treated with the disdain it deserves. #'wearewolves!
     
  38. MattySadler

    MattySadler Senior Member

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    I am all for spending money on the academy and trying to focus on young/ local players. I think it is admirable and the English game certainly needs more of it. I would be so, so, so proud of Wolves if they were able to become a steady Premiership club with a strong core of academy grown players, particularly locally born ones. There are examples of teams who have done it over the years/ tried to do it, but the most recent, good, example is Southampton.

    Cba reading all the posts, but I'm sure many have already made the point, investment in senior players is still very important in a project like this. It is all well and good having a number of talented youngsters, but they will need some experience and older heads to help them, particularly in "core" positions.
     
  39. hankin

    hankin Groupie

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    But Morgan has never taken a penny out of the club - he could have done so during the Premiership years when we were making profits. No doubt that in the future he will want a profit on his £30 million but there is nothing necessarily wrong with that. He was never likely to be another Sir Jack. As the previous poster said, we could do a LOT worse than Morgan - just ask fans of Blues, Portsmouth, Rangers, Watford, Cardiff, Blackburn, Coventry, Blackpool, Leeds, etc..
     
  40. Metal Wolf89

    Metal Wolf89 Just doesn't shut up

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    Developing a young home grown side is a great thing, but a team will always need to buy players to add experience or if the right quality player comes along for the right price I would still expect wolves to sign that player.
     

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