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Sad but true

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by waggys left foot, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. waggys left foot

    waggys left foot Just doesn't shut up

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  2. Professional

    Professional 'Unprofessional'

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    Any club/owner would be mad not to try and get promoted in the current financial climate with the Premier League money. But it is all down to financial risk- there are quite a few owners $$$$ting it about going up because of the contracts involved to stay competitive. We are obviously one of them.
     
  3. RJs Tankard

    RJs Tankard Just doesn't shut up

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    The Championship is fairly "safe" from a financial point of view - which is why I suspect the club don't appear to be showing too much hunger to be promoted.

    It doesn't cost too much to be a "comfortable" team in the Championship - there are a lot of teams in this league that have been there for years, and for the majority of the time, not really looked like getting relegated - or getting promoted. They're consistent. They're stable. They generate a steady income. They have steady expenses. It's quite "comfortable" and safe - with just a fairly modest amount spent on the squad each season.

    Yes, the Premiership has tons of money floating about - but it costs a lot of money to stay there too - with still no guarantees at the end of it, plus, unlike the Championship, you have to keep spending a fair amount each year just to keep up with other teams and to stay in the league.

    It's great while the money is there - but when things go wrong, it causes instability - big expenses with a severe drop in income - like the O'Hara, Johnson and Doyle situation. Premiership wages - without the Premiership income to fund it.

    Now that the big earners have gone, I suspect the squads wages in relation to income is fairly balanced again. The club has a good attendance each game, we get the occasional televised game, and we have a large fan base buying shirts and merchandise. For a Championship club, I would imagine our income is better than most clubs. I suspect the club are content spending a couple of million each year in the Championship and happy being one of the bigger teams in the league - rather than taking millions in the Premiership, but also having to spend millions to compete - and still having the worry of the uncertainty that the Premiership brings.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2015
  4. ricki herberts moustache

    ricki herberts moustache Just doesn't shut up

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    funny thing with football (it seems to me) is that the more glamorous and awash with money the PL gets, instead of any trickle down effect it is quite the opposite: ticket prices go up,merchandise is keeps getting expensive etc players wages continue to skyrocket

    you could be forgiven for thinking some unholy beast driven by greed had been let loose.

    But not only that (it seems to me) that the business model of the PL seems to have unfortunately trickled down to lower divisions and non-league football where ticket prices have gone up for the fans etc.

    It now seems that people in football feel like they have got a "product" so good that they can name whatever price they want and the fans will still line up to see it.

    Personally I think it has all gotten out of hand if even to attend a non-league game you have to fork out a hefty amount at the gate.
     
  5. RJs Tankard

    RJs Tankard Just doesn't shut up

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    That's exactly the problem though.

    Us fans moan about the price of football - but we don't help ourselves by encouraging them.

    If people are prepared to pay £30/£40/£50+ a ticket or replica shirt, clubs will continue to charge it.

    Nobody that runs a business is going to lower prices if people are prepared to pay a higher price. Levi's aren't going to lower the price of their jeans to £30 a pair if people are happily paying £60 a pair.

    If fans all agreed to stay away from their clubs for a season, the clubs would be forced to lower prices. It'll never happen though.

    As for non-league - it's a whole different story down there and the comparisons often appear on here. They can't really be compared though. Realistically, prices should be higher in the Premiership, lower further down the football league, and higher again in the non-league

    It might sound a strange logic, but here's why:

    The Premiership can charge more because the demand is there. Demand = higher prices.

    Non-league doesn't get TV coverage - and the crowd attendances are so low, they don't attract big advertising deals - so the bulk of their income has to come from ticket sales. They still pay players wages - so the ticket prices have to cover that. Reliance on one main income source = higher ticket prices.

    League One is fortunate enough to get the occasional match on TV - and their crowd attendances are also reasonable enough to attract some sponsors too. So they get extra income towards expenses and players wages - and they don't have to rely solely on ticket money as their income, so their ticket prices can be a bit lower because there's less reliance on one source of income - and the ticket prices can be subsidised slightly by the TV income and advertising income.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2015
  6. North West Wanderer

    North West Wanderer Just doesn't shut up

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  7. wanderer24

    wanderer24 Just doesn't shut up

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    Quite right, supply and demand are the governing forces. It fuels the rises by the blind stupidity of the customers paying it but conversely when the numbers drop off, so will the prices and so will the tv contracts. No fans, no atmosphere, no drama and no pay cheque.
    There needs to be regulation but the greedy people running the game won't allow it.
     
  8. ManSolo

    ManSolo Senior Member

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    50% of the TV revenue from the top division was trickled down to the old second, third and fourth division before 1992.

    3% in the 2013-2015 years.

    Quite sad really.
     
  9. BrummieNick

    BrummieNick Just doesn't shut up

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    Ive been saying for years that the greed league is an international competition held in England and not English.

    What about not bothering with promotion and just staying in the Championship and trying to win that every year? Its a safer from a financial point of view,its cheaper to go and watch and there's plenty of English/British players on show. I think if one club did it others might follow.
     
  10. gordonchas

    gordonchas Has a lot to say

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  11. bigbluewolf

    bigbluewolf Just doesn't shut up

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    And that's is exactly why the Premier League was formed. The top clubs for whom relegation was never (or rarely) an issue wanted a bigger slice of the TV revenue.
     
  12. gewolf

    gewolf Senior Member

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    It is a huge risk for owners to go from the Championship to the Prem. There have probably been only seven teams safe from relegation over the past decade or so - Man U, Man C, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, L'pool and Everton. Currently, looking at the table any three of eight could come down and who would bet that N'castle, Stoke or W Ham (not in that eight) will be safe and doing well over, say, the next five years.
    As the gap gets bigger it becomes almost (but not quite - look at Soton) impossible to get AND stay there.
    Oh for the days of the likes of Wolves, Burnley, Derby, Notts F being champions and FA cup finals involving PNE, Blackpool, and W Brom (well, maybe not them but you know what I mean!!).
     
  13. stuj4z

    stuj4z Just doesn't shut up

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    But it won't. People have been saying this since the late 90s. Charlie used to open the first edition of a load of bull every year saying that. While there is money in oil this will never stop.
     
  14. wallace

    wallace Just doesn't shut up

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    the premier league is a playoff between city, united and Chelsea usually. arsenal, Liverpool and spurs come next with everton just behind. the rest are cannon fodder and alternate in the lower positions so not much incentive other than to get the wad of cash to keep a few teams afloat to make up what they laughingly call a competition. all leagues have clubs able to flex their financial muscle but the premiership has become obscene. as has been said, the top teams could be based in any city in the world without any empathy to the local area. gerrard, carragher, scholes, the nevilles, lampard and terry etc represented the last of their kind in the game.
     
  15. SingYourHeartsOut

    SingYourHeartsOut Just doesn't shut up

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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/4773802/Bubble-bursts-for-elite-clubs.html

    I'm sure there are plenty of even earlier examples of how it was all going to end in tears. I actually believed 20 years ago that they would end up virtually paying the fans to attend to keep the atmosphere for TV. Still waiting for that too....
     
  16. Surrey Wolf

    Surrey Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    It'll burst like a puss filled spot eventually & then the $$$$ will hit the fan
     
  17. Alex Rae The Substitute

    Alex Rae The Substitute Just doesn't shut up

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    The Premier League is more & more beginning to represent society in general.

    At the moment it's the top 20% or so who share most of the wealth, with an elite 5% within that group who are super rich.

    Very soon though I fear that 5% will breakaway even further than they are at present and we'll see a reflection of that 1%/99% split we see today in life.

    Maybe a bit ominous and OTT but very soon this will be the case I fear.
     
  18. OLDGOLD

    OLDGOLD Just doesn't shut up

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    The fans might still think of Spurs or Liverpool as their local club – and it’s important to the TV producers wanting pictures of packed stands that they do – but it’s outdated. Everton or West Ham are now units within a global entertainment phenomenon, units that just happen to have a physical presence in Merseyside or London.


    That quote from the article sadly says it all. Fans mean nothing, all about the SKY money
     
  19. Big Nosed Wolf

    Big Nosed Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Stop feeding the monster and stay away.

    A few years ago on this site when the club were in the PL there were posts on here that argued ticketing should be cheaper and money from the PL should be used to reduce all tickets. Also his bit in the piece about Sky writing to clubs concerned about half empty grounds also reinforces what could be done.

    I seem to recall quite a few posts on here with the 'it's the way it is' and it wasn't the clubs fault. All while the CEO was deciding on thirty four quid to 'experience' the building site that was the emerging new North Bank.

    To start 'taking it back' all that is necessary would be an organised, sensible campaign of boycotting en masse a selection of games and the SQ would look different.
     
  20. wolvesinwales

    wolvesinwales Just doesn't shut up

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    Had an email yesterday from Sky supposedly for them to get people views on football, first question was which team do you support with a list of only premiership teams to choose from.
     
  21. Alex Rae The Substitute

    Alex Rae The Substitute Just doesn't shut up

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    And that sums up the attitude of SKY.

    I hate the new adverts where they've paid Thierry Henry to say: "I couldn't imagine my career without the Premier League or the Premier League without SKY" - or words to that effect.

    I like watching football end of, I go to Wolves as often as I can, but in the week I'll watch whatever game is on TV. The way SKY bleat on about their unique coverage and how vital they are to football enfuriates me. I couldn't care less what channel I watch it on, I'd also be quite happy if the transmission started thirty seconds before the match did. I'd rather not pay for it but I do.

    All this nonsense about "Carra and Gary" winds me up too, the way managers refer to it in their press conferences now too is a sorry reflection on the way the whole sport is now marketed.

    The Premier League has no doubt had many benefits to football, but the powers that be at the top need to take a serious step back and analyse how far they want to take things the way they are going as football is more important than just making money for the star players and people at the very top, whole towns (even Wolverhampton to some extent) rely on their club and if they suffer in the long term so does the town.

    Rant over...as you can see I'm somewhat a bit angered/perplexed by this at the moment!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2015
  22. Big Nosed Wolf

    Big Nosed Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    And the sooner that anger is channelled in the right areas the sooner change will come.

    It's not necessarily the money awash in the game that is the bad thing. It's how it's used and how the 'marketing' of football is used for the wrong reasons at the expense of our national game.

    The one we first organised into the 'peoples' game'

    Unless an organised, effective campaign ( twenty's plenty types won't do it) is in the face of the hijackers those like me who stay away will be laughed at.
     
  23. BlackBully

    BlackBully Guest

    I hate the beast that our top flight has become. It is a disgusting, obscene, overbloated perversion of what football traditionally was - the fan's game; the working man's sport.

    Now the fan is treated like complete rubbish. Clubs forget that without them they would not exist.

    I am conflicted about wanting to get promotion, I hate the Premier League. A melange of corporate, sanitised, plastic, elitist nonsense. The Championship is better but still tainted by its influence.

    I love going to the lower leagues, it is a lot closer to the 'heart' of our national game. If someone asked me where to go to experience an 'authentic' English match I would point them to the likes of Kidderminster or Portsmouth. Because I don't think anyone could seriously point to the Premier League and make a case for that...thing...as the epitome of the English game.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2015
  24. JamesWolves

    JamesWolves Just doesn't shut up

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    Anyone see the banner at the Bayern Munich game today ? im jealous of the German football system it works so well and theres us in England being drained of money £35 to watch a Championship game is a joke, the greed is unreal in this country thats why we wont ever progress as a footballing nation
     
  25. QB Wolf

    QB Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I've lost all interest in all football outside of Wolves not watch MOTD or the champions league in years, sky sports went a long time ago. The game I loved has gone forever, it died when the premiership started, it's designed to serve a few clubs with the rest making up the numbers. I have no interest in watching footballers earning 100s of thousands per week. The days of a club winning the second tier and then going and winning the top flight are gone forever, so where is the magic? It's all so very very sad.
     
  26. Floydstreet

    Floydstreet Has a lot to say

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    I love football, I love wolves
    I am ambivalent towards the money league and do worry about when that particular bubble bursts.

    The issues aren't just surrounding money not trickling down to lower leagues, the state of investment in grass roots is a national disgrace. We have footballers (often average) multi millionaires by late teens, clubs going to the wall when trying to keep up with spending and FFP having no impact or being dismissed. Against all of this back drop, all of this money we have kids playing on dog muck, glass infested pitches with constant cancellations due weather / drainage and a meagre amount of 3G pitches (with astronomical costs to hire) available.

    Want to develop our kids ?, grassroots facilities need investing and facilities need getting closer to Europe, at the minute we are failing our kids and way behind elsewhere. The solution, time for a tax on premier league income which goes into grass roots. It will benefit parents, kids and all league levels as these facilities will only enhance players technical development.

    Turkeys will never vote for Christmas however, so this will need centrally imposing. But just think if a tax on Manchester united to benefit grass roots in the north west etc etc. somebody needs to take a lead here and the benefit would be huge.
     
  27. Panthera

    Panthera Groupie

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    It's called capitalism mate.
     
  28. Floydstreet

    Floydstreet Has a lot to say

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    Arguably more akin to the spread of wealth in India i'd say
    A hugely prosperous country, but enormous poverty
    A licence to print money prem league, but clubs spiralling into debt elsewhere and grassroots lacking in any investment.

    Might be capitalism, might be commercialism, might be more like an autocracy
     
  29. ricki herberts moustache

    ricki herberts moustache Just doesn't shut up

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    I thought wages for players in non-league were low and or part time...or am I living in the past?

    and if players wages in non-league are high, how did that come about?
     
  30. wwfc9

    wwfc9 Has a lot to say

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    Many conference players are on 6-7 hundred pound a week and are full time ...
     
  31. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Read through a lot of this and I'm generally sympathetic to the views expressed but we are fans of a club who have had the chance to make it and failed; I bet Soton fans have a different view towards the Prem and esp so if they qualify for the CL with all the money that brings? I've supported this club for around 50 years and if I'm honest I'm losing interest in 2nd division football. I had thought of making the trip up for Rotherham but I've spent my life trekking around watching Wolves at places like Grimsby and Watford and I thought sod it I'll stay at home and take the wife out for a nice meal!
     
  32. RJs Tankard

    RJs Tankard Just doesn't shut up

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    Many non-league teams have been full time for years now.

    How much the players earn is irrelevant. If they have a squad of 20 all earning £500 per week, that's £10,000 per week just on players wages. Then there's the coaching staff, ground staff, running costs, etc - which is a lot of money to pay out when the main source of income is ticket money.
     
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  33. Onlywolf

    Onlywolf Has a lot to say

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    Given the amount of crap they show from the lower divisions whilst BT only seem to show the quality, that surprises me !
     
  34. wolf97

    wolf97 Just doesn't shut up

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    A fan's boycott would send a huge message, but it will never happen because most fans are too stubborn to stop going. Cancelling Sky subscriptions would help too.
     
  35. Onlywolf

    Onlywolf Has a lot to say

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    Strange I'm in your boat - only a few years ago I couldn't imagine not spending ridiculous amounts of time and money following a team that don't give a monkies if I'm there or not - however the total lack of interest from Steve Morgan in making this club a success and the sheer lack of ambition has finally got to me - I can take it or leave it now !

    IMO Steve Morgan is the worst thing that has ever happened to this club on a par with the Bhatti's ! We're going nowhere with Mr Non-descript at the helm !
     
  36. Onlywolf

    Onlywolf Has a lot to say

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    plus the removal of standing - all seaters all but killed it for me !
     
  37. ricki herberts moustache

    ricki herberts moustache Just doesn't shut up

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    Ok thats interesting to know. I mean I figured the conference would be full time but below that it would be part time i thought.

    why has non league gone down the full time path? some sort of wanna-be premier league creep?

    I ask that because even when non league was predominately part time the crowds were small etc why would they go for a full time squad if they dont have the crowds to back it?

    just wondering
     
  38. ricki herberts moustache

    ricki herberts moustache Just doesn't shut up

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    you're bang on= all seating is the pits!
     
  39. gordonchas

    gordonchas Has a lot to say

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    This is the knock-on effect of the huge money available at the top level. At every level below that now there is more than just a clutch of clubs straining to get the (ill-perceived) riches that exist higher up. That raises player wages at all levels so that even modest non-league clubs have to spend more money just to stand still.

    Anyone who hasn't gone to, say, a Conference North match, might be surprised how much it costs to get in.
     
  40. yateleywolf

    yateleywolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Well £35 to watch Norwich away stopped me straight away with the £50 train ticket included.
    I've read a few talk about cancelling sky sport subscription to make a point.I did it for three years and it didnt make a slight bit of difference.
    Its bums on seats that will do it if fans stop going because prices to high than that will make a difference as you pointed out but will it ever happen?
     

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