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Net Transfer Outlay

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by Sedgley Gold N Black, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. Sedgley Gold N Black

    Sedgley Gold N Black Just doesn't shut up

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    In the latest Parliament minutes Jez claims we have a 'massive net purchase of players' under Morgan.

    It's a bit difficult given the majority of our deals (both in and out) are undisclosed but does this really stand up?

    In his first season we brought in quite a few and didn't really sell anyone for a decent sum, I'd estimate around £3-4m spend.

    Second season we brought in Berra for a couple of million and Shackell probably wasn't too cheap either and then a couple of others for smaller amounts but we sold Seyi for a huge amount (£3m?), Eastwood for more than £1m, Mark Davies and a few others for smaller amounts. I'd say that's about £2m profit maybe more.

    Then came our first season in the PL, so obviously there was a lot of investment in playing staff. Doyle the bulk of the outlay with a handful of players around the £1-2m mark. So I'd guess a spend of £12m?

    Second season in the PL and further investment including a record signing, Fletcher, along with Mouyokolo, Hunt, Hammill and of course VanDamme who came and went. Shifted on some of the fringe players for probably around £1.5m. I think an estimate net spend of £12m is reasonable with JVD cancelling himself out.

    3rd Season JOH was made permanent for around £5m and Roger was signed for figures reporting from £4-7m but I think it was generally accepted to be around £5m? De Vries on a free and Egg for a nominal fee made up out permanent in comings (no wonder we fell short!). Recouped some money through Halford and Keogh around £1.5m combined I believe. Estimated net spend £8.5m

    Then following relegation a busy window with huge money being recouped from prized assets and a few other out of favour I'd say anything between £25-28m would be a reasonable estimate. Spent big too for a championship club with Sako, Boukari, Sig ect. costing around £10m. Back to a profit approx £16m

    A few more incomings but shopping in a much cheaper market our most expensive outlay was Leon supplemented by a number of signings around the 250k-500k bracket. Recouped some big money though with Hen, Griffiths and Henry all departing for around £5m combined. I'd estimate a 2.5m profit on player trading here.

    Then finally this season, £2m on Afobe adding to the £1m on Saville in the summer with some brought in from Ward, Davis, Forde and Doumbia probably pushing a £1m between them at best? So a £2m net spend.

    So I make that an approx. net spend of £18m being generous we'll round it up to £20m considering that we've had three years in the Premier League is that massive?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2015
  2. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    That equates to a third of Di Maria!!!!!!!!
    I don't believe a word Jez Moxey says. It's his job to put a positive spin on everything. If we'd bought well we'd be where Stoke and Swansea and Soton are now and not swilling around in Lg 1 and trying to make the Champs POs?
     
  3. maws

    maws Just doesn't shut up

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    Still never spent the £30m he promised has he, the stand was covered money before someone throws that in
     
  4. spittlep

    spittlep Senior Member

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    Stoke only got where they are after getting rid of Moxey.
     
  5. Smithy

    Smithy Has a lot to say

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    It's pretty big considering only three seasons were in the prem. By your figures our premier league net spend was £32.8m. Pretty significant amount. If fact pretty sure that figure is on the slim side...
     
  6. hankin

    hankin Groupie

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    I think that our net spend is quite a bit higher than that. For example, we got nothing for Karl Henry (didn't the £1 million fee go to him in respect of a loyalty payment?) and I never believed that we got that much for Jarvis, Kightly & Fletcher, especially given that the figures banded around probably included appearance money etc (and the first 2 failed at their new clubs didn't they so our fees would be much less than hoped for). Surely we didn't get £1.5million for Halford and Keogh either! On top of all this is agents fees and signing on fees as well.
     
  7. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Love the convenient things that have been missed out in the OP. Signing on fees being one, not to mention the outlay on the wages for some of the 4/5 year contracts. Also the fact it was made very clear from day one Morgan put £30m straight into the clubs balance in 2007.

    But no, back to the main agenda - Morgan has no ambition, out out out etc..
     
  8. justanotherwolf

    justanotherwolf Senior Member

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    Sorry but this has been done to death over the last few years. Most independent figures showed that we were 5th-6th highest net spenders in terms of transfer fees in the Premier League for the three years we were there. i.e. far higher than some other clubs.

    Then we got relegated but covered the wages of some of the highest earners. Then we got relegated again but still covered those wages (even though by now most of them were out of the first team picture).

    We also built a stand AND built a state-of-the-art academy facility: imho pressing on with the academy despite being relegated showed a fantastic long-term commitment to the club.

    Even this year we've paid at least 6 months of Premiership-level wages to Johnson and Doyle.

    We all know Morgan made some bad football decisions 18-36 months ago (hence we now have Thelwell making those decisions) but money-wise, it's impossible to doubt his commitment if you look at it objectively.

    EDIT: sorry just to add that I haven't quoted any numbers for transfer fees in or out because none of us really know the total costs involved so it's pointless to guess, but even using the OP figures Morgan has spent a decent whack and that's not including agents fees, player bonuses etc etc...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2015
  9. WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax

    WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax Moderator

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    Yes especially in the Prem we spent a relatively high amount, the problem was too much quantity too little quality. It would have been easy to just bank money when relegated but we did spend on replacements, on paper the likes of Sako, Boukari, Siggy etc should have bounced us straight back up. Once it all went to $$$$ we cut back on spending but still Jackett has been backed, he must have signed 15 or so players in less than 2 years? I don't really see how our spend under Morgan can be criticised myself. The actual players it was spent on, ok, criticise that!
     
  10. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    We've been so bad over the past 6 seasons (admittedly on the up now from a very low place) that it's staggering to believe how much we must have spent/wasted on players in that time? WABOC is right to say we tend to buy in quantity and not go for quality. This past year this trend has been partly bucked - we've bought neither in quantity nor quality (Afobe ???), that's why I'm praying we still might get a quality singing in in the next few weeks?????
     
  11. Ponty

    Ponty Just doesn't shut up

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    I think Coates millions might have more to do with their success!
     
  12. goldenwolf69

    goldenwolf69 Senior Member

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    I DO NOT agree Jackett has been backed financially.

    You say 15 or so players may have come through the doors since KJ became manager (costing in total approx. £6.5million).

    What you have forgotten to mention is the fact he has overseen 19 or so players go out the same doors (bringing in approx. £6.3million).

    Of the 15 signings, one can argue only L. Clarke was the only bad buy and maybe M. Jacobs (played a vital role last season)
    The only other 2 players with ??? are T. Rowe and G. Saville but neither has had a long enough run in the team to make judgement yet.

    I think KJ has done extremely well considering Clarke, Saville and Afobe cost approx. £4million between them.
    He has therefore spent just over £2million on 13 other players !!!!

    Dicko's value has probably increased by 5000percent minimum and will continual to go up.

    K. Hause, K.Mcdonald, J.Henry and S.Golbourne's values have increased

    RVLP signed on a free is worth a few bob now, and Afobe's value will
    soar if he continues scoring goals.


    If we were to sell all the players he has bought we would show a very handsome profit indeed.
    Overall absolutely fantastic player purchasing by him.

    Just imagine what he would achieve with a real war chest.

    Had he been backed before this season started, we would now be sitting pretty and about 10pts clear at the top of the table.

    It's not too late to acquire 2 or 3 decent loan signings, the minimum he deserves to have a decent chance of play-off success.
    I very much doubt they will be sanctioned though.
     
  13. WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax

    WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax Moderator

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    You've tailed off into another point there (which I agree with, he's bought really well), my initial post was saying even with that number of players leaving we've still been lumbered with the infamous bomb squad and it could have been tempting to say Jackett can't sign many players until they'd been shifted and/or make him utilise them. That didn't happen, of late they've departed en masse but for 18 months or so he was allowed to spend whilst they were still on the books. In League 1 terms he had a formidable budget afforded to him, despite the Group 3 millstone
     
  14. Clifton Wolf

    Clifton Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Dicko worth 15mil? You sure?!
     
  15. Timberwolf

    Timberwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Since the start of the 07/08 season, Wolves have spent nearly £60m in transfer fees. Recouping £39.4m. So the OP wasn't too far wrong with his original estimates.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2015
  16. Barnet Wolves

    Barnet Wolves Just doesn't shut up

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    Apparently it turns out how much we spent on player salaries is the key indicator on how well a team performs ( according to the studies cited in soccernomics)
     
  17. goldenwolf69

    goldenwolf69 Senior Member

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    I meant 5 fold, not 50 fold. extra 0 by mistake
     
  18. goldenwolf69

    goldenwolf69 Senior Member

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    yep.

    my thread on 10-01-2015 " How much will we actually spend this transfer window" highlighted the same information.
     
  19. cowshed

    cowshed Groupie

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    I am sure that Steve Morgan actually came out and said that Mick spent 83M Pounds on 29 players. He didn't say how much was recouped on sales
     
  20. maws

    maws Just doesn't shut up

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    That's an average of £3m a player, I can only think of 4 over that amount, fletch Doyle JOH Rodge the bodge. Lots were £1.5 m ish, like the Hoff Castillo Freddie Van Damme, so think £83m is on the high side ,ay be over his 6 years but not just in prem
     
  21. North West Wanderer

    North West Wanderer Just doesn't shut up

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    A couple of points.
    IMO you've made the fatal error of judging being backed by the amount of money spent.

    Also we've suffered consecutive relegations which means inevitably we'd need to sell players.

    Finally, even if we do go by money, he's been more than backed IMO for league 1!
    And again going by money, did anyone spend £2m in January? If so, not many.

    While fans continue to judge a manager being backed by how much is spent, it will never be an accurate and worthwhile discussion IMO.
     
  22. reanswolf

    reanswolf MolMix's Manchester United Cheerleader-in-Chief

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    Exactly. A far better indicator.
     
  23. Sedgley Gold N Black

    Sedgley Gold N Black Just doesn't shut up

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    I agree yon can't read too much into transfer fees but Jez made the point that we have are massively net in purchasing players.

    My issue is more with Jez A) thinking around £20m over (it's not going to be too far from that sum) 7 seasons including 3 in the PL is a massive net spend. B) fobbing supporters off again with political answers by avoiding the actual question throwing in a subjective and largely untrue 'fact' to give it substance.
     
  24. Bumbamuffin

    Bumbamuffin Just doesn't shut up

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    So we've not spent that much on buying players or on wages either....
     
  25. @Nat_WWFC88

    @Nat_WWFC88 Has a lot to say

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    Wages.

    3-5 year contracts, averaging 15-40k a week in the PL. You do the maths.

    However, i will say i think Wolves have always aired on the side of caution with Jez in charge. He does receive a lot of unwarranted stick from fans who want it every which way and then some. That's consumers for you ;)
     
  26. mikic

    mikic Just doesn't shut up

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    At last, a voice of reason
     
  27. Golden Arrow

    Golden Arrow Just doesn't shut up

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    Really, I thought Mr Coates held the purse strings.........

    Funny old game this football.
     
  28. Sheriff Woody

    Sheriff Woody Just doesn't shut up

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    And his daughter Denise is the reason why he's got so much disposable cash to throw at Stoke.
     
  29. Sedgley Gold N Black

    Sedgley Gold N Black Just doesn't shut up

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    I could have added signing on fees on but that would have been a complete guess as to how much they are but I've also omitted many of our nominal outgoings which would soon begin to add up over 7 or 8 seasons.

    As for wages, Jez said net player purchasing in his response so no I haven't conveniently left those out they just don't have a place in working out net player trading.

    and finally where I said anything about Morgan's lack of ambition or his initial £30m investment? So back to the agenda anyone who challenges something the board say must be calling for Morgan out...
     
  30. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    When I read net player purchasing I thought he might have been on about the sheer number of players in & out. But if it wasn't for the 2 inflated fee's for Jarvis & Fletch we'd be in right $$$$.
     
  31. Penk Wolf

    Penk Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Got a bit of time on my hands:

    Year 1

    M Jarvis -£750k
    D Ward - £250k
    F Eastwood - £1.75
    S Elliott - £750k
    K Foley - £250k
    S Ebanks-Blake £1.5
    D Edwards £675k
    G Elokobi -£250k

    £6.175M

    Year 2

    In
    S Vokes - £500k
    R Stearman - £1.6m
    D Jones - £1.2m
    C Iwelumo - £400k
    J Shackell - £1m
    M Hill - £250k
    G Friend - £350k
    C Berra £2.3m

    Out
    F Eastwood - £1.2m
    C Mulgrew - £300k
    S Olofinjana - £3m
    J Bothroyd - £300k
    R Edwards - £150k
    S Elliott - £250k
    M Davis - £1m

    £1.4m

    Year 3
    N Milijas - £2.6m
    K Doyle - £6.5m
    A Surman £1.2m
    G Halford £2m
    R Zubar £2.5m
    S Maierhofer - £1.8m

    £16.6m

    Year 4
    A Guediora - £1m
    S Fletcher - £6.5m
    S Mouykolo - £1.5m
    S Hunt - £1.5m
    A Hammill £1m

    £11.5m

    Year 4
    J O'Hara - £3.5m
    R Johnson - £2.5m
    E Jonsson - £200k

    G Halford - £1m
    S Maierhofer - £1.8m

    £3.4m

    Year 5
    B Sigurdarson - £2.4m
    G Margrietter - £500k
    R Boukari - £1.5m
    B Sako - £2.7m
    T Doumbia - £2m

    Out

    A Guedioura - £1m
    M Kightly - £1.5m
    M Jarvis - £10.75m
    S Fletcher £14m

    -£18.15M

    So, I reckon Morgan has spent £21m in total, but as has been pointed out that doesn't take into account loan fees and signing on fees.
     
  32. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    And of those players I would class just 7 as having been a success. Our record in the transfer market was appalling and buying from o/seas has been disastrous. You can see why SM is trying to promote youth?
     
  33. goldenwolf69

    goldenwolf69 Senior Member

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    North West Wanderer

    How much did we spend pre-season when it was of utmost importance coming back into The Championship ??
    £800k I believe; come on be reasonable, even Brentford shamed us.
    £2m on Afobe was too little, far too late.

    The season before, about a dozen players were sold/released raising approx.£4.5m.
    Was KJ not entitled to spend just over half of this in an attempt to rebuild the squad ??
    Or did you expect him to work with 10 professionals and some youths ??

    I stand by my argument that KJ has not been backed that well considering all the real facts.
    He has virtually re-built the whole squad, more or less with a zero transfer deficit; a job absolutely superbly done !
     
  34. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    GW69 perhaps you can answer as nobody ever has yet, the big spenders in this league are all outside the top 6? Why do you think it's about money?
     
  35. goldenwolf69

    goldenwolf69 Senior Member

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    I am not saying it is all about money Mr Wolf.

    I am simply debating the fact that I feel he is not being backed financially and have given my reasons, in response to a comment by someone.

    Is this allowed on this website ??????
     
  36. maws

    maws Just doesn't shut up

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    Derby haven't spent?? Could of fooled me, I bet they shelling out £60k a week on Bent and Ince
     
  37. Ponty

    Ponty Just doesn't shut up

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    It doesn’t look great but are the majority of clubs any better? I think it is easy to look at your own club and think they are useless but I suspect many clubs have similar strike rates.

    The thing that struck me most looking at that list is we recouped £1.2m for Freddie Eastwood!
     
  38. maws

    maws Just doesn't shut up

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    No no no

    £3m for Seyi!!! As my mate said at the time Moxey deserved a horn job for that bit of business!
     
  39. North West Wanderer

    North West Wanderer Just doesn't shut up

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    As I said you've made the fatal error of judging being backed by how much money has been spent

    Our two best signings last year were free and £250k
    Our worst £750k.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2015
  40. Ponty

    Ponty Just doesn't shut up

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    True, but £1.2m for Eastwood is on a par.
     

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