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Is the squad really too weak?.....

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by RJs Tankard, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. RJs Tankard

    RJs Tankard Just doesn't shut up

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    Just intrigued to hear opinions really.

    At the moment, some are saying the squad is holding us back - others seem to think that Jackett's negativity and/or team selection has been holding us back.

    Personally, I feel we're about where we should be for a promoted side and with the players that we've got. I never expected promotion at the start of the season - and still don't. Realistically, 8th-10th would have been my expectations.

    However, I also feel that we've started off much better than I expected in terms of league position - but we could have been even higher still if the lineup and/or system was better.

    Personally, I feel that the negative line-up today resulted in 3 points lost. Reading were fairly average - and a draw was definitely possible. A win wouldn't have been out of the question with a more positive bench where there were more attacking options to come on and change things round. Instead, we had a keeper and 3 defenders.

    It's about the third game this season where I've felt that we could have had a minimum of a point or possibly three - but came away with nothing. Simply down to team selection and/or the system we played.

    When we drop points, most of the time, its not because we're not good enough and we're being outclassed. Its because the team has been unbalanced and average teams have made us look poor.

    Sure, we've had a bit of a run prior to today - but even when we haven't lost points, we've been a bit lucky - we've not played particularly well.

    Personally, I feel that we could be a couple of positions higher in the league if the tactics and/or team selection had been chosen better - and that would have been the case regardless of whether we'd had new players or not.

    Yes, I think the squad is too weak for promotion - but I don't think its too weak to beat bang average teams like Reading.

    Just my two cents.
     
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  2. Professional

    Professional 'Unprofessional'

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    Mid-table is what we are. Happy with that. I don't know . Suppose.
     
  3. DasWolf

    DasWolf Has a lot to say

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    Before the season started, we'd all have been very happy with our current position.

    There's a few factors at play:

    1) The league this year is fairly even.
    2) Wolves had a very good start, and have shown they can compete with the better teams when they play well (see Watford especially).
    3) We outclassed Brentford completely last year, and they are now above us, despite us having resources they can dream of (bigger club, better facilities, more money etc.). Why? Because they strengthened instead of $$$$ing about during the summer.

    3 is the real kicker, because if Brentford did that from being below us, we could have done the same. Still, they deserve credit for a job well done.
     
  4. NewarkWolf

    NewarkWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    We have shown due to the General standard of the opposition that our current group ( before afobe ) was capable of being top 6. We then got found out and aren't cute enough to find another way of being as successful. We then added afobe without improving the area of the pitch that was the main issue once we got 'found out' in the midfield. KJ has loaned players out in the case of Price and after being a relitive success a Yeovil for crying out loud deemed him good enough to then be able to compete with top champ players where he's totally out of his depth due to his limited game. Pressure is put on young Evans who in patches has shown he could grow into a very good player at this level but isn't consistant enough to be a mainstay in a team fighting for what we want, potentially he looks a prospect and a much better one than price though. McDonald has been found wanting as he's struggled to impose himself due to far less time in the ball meaning quicker decisions being needed when in possession, he needs to adjust and quickly, Edwards has at times been vital to us in the role he has matured into, is he good enough to play that role for a top 6 club week in week out? Not really but again there's no plan b so the pressure is on him. I feel we have an average keeper, an above average defensive group, a below average midfield triangle, above average wide players and we afobe and dicko we have above average striking options for this level. What a shame that we put so my emphasis on our play through thr weakest part of the team! Jackett has come to a dead end idea wise imo and is slightly lost in what to do. He proclaims the squad is good enough for promotion, he isn't far wrong in that respect I guess as we were flying at the start of the season, has he seen the weaknesses I mention develop in the midfield areas?? I'd have to say no as he's carried on proclaiming it's all rosy and not attempted to improve that area at all. I feel he's levelling out back to the manager he always has been and always will be but the improvement in his reputation has been down to working with better players than he has had at other clubs, he's hot a brick wall now in terms of ideas to win games, he's resorting to setting the team up not to lose rather than to win and that's all well and good for a team happy to be between 8-16 in the championship. We aren't happy with that. He will get until October/November next season and if we're not top 5/6 he'll be rightfully dismissed.
     
  5. reanswolf

    reanswolf MolMix's Manchester United Cheerleader-in-Chief

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    OP is similar view to other thread about KJ - both posters whose views are to be respected.

    Personally i think we do have some pretty good players in the squad, but probably not prem standard. I do not think the tinkering helps, but were our performances any better the past few games? I not sure they were results aside.

    The team needed strengthening in 2 key areas - striker (Afobe purchased) and central midfield. The latter is our trademark achilles heel I am afraid. It is one of those key positions that could transform the balance of the team. Do I think we can adress that weakness from within. Definitely NO.
     
  6. Ercall Wolves

    Ercall Wolves Just doesn't shut up

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    Agree with what you have said regarding we have lost a number of points this season due to poor team selection and or poor tactics. That is down to one person KJ. A better manager would have us in the top six with the current squad of players.
     
  7. NewarkWolf

    NewarkWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Bang on!! 100%. He's out of depth at top end of table.
     
  8. NewarkWolf

    NewarkWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Changing my mind if we do drop away so that play offs are more and more unlikely would it be better to replace KJ so that someone has till end of season and the summer to assess current crop? Just don't see the point in KJ wasting time here when he's not up to the task
     
  9. reanswolf

    reanswolf MolMix's Manchester United Cheerleader-in-Chief

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    Its interesting to see that some think we should be capable of making the playoffs with the existing squad - it seems to split opinion.

    Can some clever bod to a poll?

    Is the existing squad capable of making the play offs?
     
  10. Tring Wolf

    Tring Wolf MolMix Poster of the Season Winner 2011-2012 and r

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    I personally don't think he is underperforming with this squad of players. I've consistently said I think this squad is good enough to finish 10th-12th with an outside chance of the play-offs if we invested well (which I don't think we particularly did in either window - for which Jackett does take a portion of the blame).

    I don't think he is out of his depth in this division. Everyone says that Mick is the master in this League yet Jackett with predominantly a League One squad and, crucially 18 months less in this division, is only six points behind him. I'd also argue that of the teams above us, only Brentford are massively punching above their weight. Watford for example have a first team squad of around 35 players and have genuine quality competition in each position. Bournemouth have made a few quality additions to their League One promotion side but again their players have benefitted from an additional 18-months experience in this League. For comparison purposes, they finished 10th last year.

    KJ has undoubtedly made some strange selection decisions but I can usually understand the logic behind it. We had a spell where we were far too easy to play against, hence the priority was tightening up at the back. We then had a recent run of games where we struggled to break teams down at home so I can understand why he wanted to play the more creative Evans there yesterday (even if I personally would have played Price). With the exception of Evans and Doherty, the other selections for yesterday's starting XI were either enforced (Kuszchak and Hause) or justified (Sako and Afobe who was man of the match). The reason he is 'tinkering' is that we don't have the quality in the midfield areas where 2/3 people have consistently put in performances which demands they keep their place.

    As to whether the squad is good enough, I guess you have to ask who we think is good enough to play for an automatic promotion side. I personally think it's only Ikeme, Golbourne, Stearman, Sako and potentially Iorfa and Afobe.

    Will Jackett get us promoted? The statistics suggest probably not. But I think his record so far (plus that of the majority of other sides in the Championship who have shown some patience such as Derby, Bournemouth and Ipswich) suggests he deserves at least another year and more backing to do so. Plus, I can't think of anyone else out there who would come in and do a hugely better job.
     
  11. NewarkWolf

    NewarkWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Squad is good enough for play offs imo. Tactics stifle them and we've dropped 7/8 points through this justifying my play off claim.
     
  12. Hebburn Wolves

    Hebburn Wolves Just doesn't shut up

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    the current squad is good enough for mid table finish in the championship or maybe play off at an outside chance, but imho the squad isnt good enough for promotion.

    the club wants to build on the young crop of players they have and whats they can bring through the academy, this may be a gamble but i guess splashing the cash is a gamble also. i guess the club are looking to build on the youngsters and are happy to gradually build a squad for promotion even if this takes x amount of season to achieve.
    sell the odd gem they find to fund the club and future transfers
    would the fans be happy to wait and would they be happy with this policy the club wants to bring in.
     
  13. Taffywolf

    Taffywolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I don't think we are.. Defensively we are not a hard team to score against, we are playing with a midfield 3 and only 1 of those is genuinely good enough, but currently his level is being brought down due to him having to do the work for his partners as well. The front 4 will cause problems for most teams but as for movement off the ball when we are in possession in lacking.
     
  14. RosehillWolf

    RosehillWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Trouble is with being happy with mid table is that it's all too easy to get sucked into a relegation battle
     
  15. Sedgley Gold N Black

    Sedgley Gold N Black Just doesn't shut up

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    We're just short in a few key positions.

    We needed another forward like Dicko and got one 6 months too late, then let Clarke go who although isn't brilliant was perfectly fine as third choice - now we are still a striker short.

    We need a no.10, we all expected Jacobs to step up but it hasn't happened. The club have now had a loan window and the January window and haven't acted.

    And I feel we are short of a winger too, 3 people challenging for 2 key attacking positions isn't enough imo and it's annoying that there have been plenty of ideal wingers available for loan so far this season who would have been great.

    I think we'd all agree we're well covered across the defence now with Iorfa and Hause's emergence and I can see why some think we need a midfielder but I just think KMac needs to step it up and a better no.10 would improve the central midfield 10 fold.
     
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  16. Tring Wolf

    Tring Wolf MolMix Poster of the Season Winner 2011-2012 and r

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    Or you could argue that the tactics have picked up an additional 7/8 points through clean sheets and wins at places like Fulham, Sheffield Wednesday, Blackburn and Watford.

    For what it's worth, I think we are too defensive at the moment due to a lack of quality in the midfield/Number 10 area, hence why Jackett is trying to find his most effective combination in those positions. I don't think he's out of his depth though. As I said earlier, MM is widely regarded as the Master in this division and he is only 6 points ahead despite having had an extra 18 months with his squad his this division. Similarly, another 'proven Championship Manager' in Holloway is fairing far worse with his more attacking approach at Millwall than Jackett did with the same resources.

    Has he made mistakes? Yes. Is he out of his depth? I personally don't think so. Needs some time and to bring in different personnel in certain areas.
     
  17. Perton Wolf

    Perton Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Disagree, our central midfield is crap. Need to be playing 4-4-2 at this level yet we are too weak in the middle to do so.
     
  18. NewarkWolf

    NewarkWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    See where your coming from Tring but in that respect if he has to sacrifice attacking play to gain 3 points by overloading defensively to gain 1 it's strange but moreso how he repeatedly says the squad is good enough. It's fine for me to be wrong but him? If and he's said it enough he thinks that squad he's built is good enough to gain promotion then he's set himself up for a fall imo if that fails.
     
  19. we8wba

    we8wba Just doesn't shut up

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    We put half our squad in yesterday from off bench

    Resulted in first defeat in two months vs bang average side

    So yeah fairly weak I'd say
     
  20. NewarkWolf

    NewarkWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    It is crap. It's the worse area of our team and th area we play through for our style..: I've said all that earlier in this thread I think. That squad is better than only mustering 4/5 shots on goal at home though. It's the tactics doing that
     
  21. wvwolf

    wvwolf Groupie

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    I think its more with the style of play, patient possession football is fine if you have an element of creativity and flair but we don't seem to play with that.
     
  22. Wagstaffe Was Magic

    Wagstaffe Was Magic Just doesn't shut up

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    It's a weak Division this year relatively and therefore a golden opportunity to get back to where we were!

    We put ourselves in a good position to kick on and are now undoing all that was achieved in the early season, mainly by our failure to beat very average opposition at Molineux!

    The midfield axis of McDonald Price/Evans and Edwards is not good enough. Saville was the major investment to deal with this. We all know how that went!

    FEAR permeates the team selections and when you're a club as big as Wolves,with all it's facilities and resources, fearing the Blackpools and Charltons and Readings is not inspired management!

    It's not unreasonable to conclude that this job may be too big for KJ. He was a 'safe pair of hands' for what was needed post Solbakken and Saunders. However, 'safety' as a mentality can only take you so far. There's a bigger, bolder, more imaginative requirement in order to make the quantum leap!
     
  23. GAWAZZ

    GAWAZZ Just doesn't shut up

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    At the beginning of the season I said we would finish 10th.

    Now I am getting more and more disappointed because we are so close to the play offs.

    Look at it like this - Is our squad good enough to beat Reading at home? IMV Yes! THe issue is whether its the manager or players holding us back. I love KJ but sometimes his tactics and subs leave me mystified, we were 2.1 down yesterday and (IMV) still only played one up!
     
  24. WS10Wolf

    WS10Wolf MolMix Poster of the Season 2013-14

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    Come on now Tring, there's far too much sense in this for a post defeat discussion...
     
  25. OLDGOLD

    OLDGOLD Just doesn't shut up

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    For god sake breathe man :D

    I agree with most of your pints, but don't get the Evans love in. If I am being charitable I can see a player that has potential buy being young is prone to mistakes which hopefully he can cut out. It is a straight choice i suppose, the more defensive short passing Price or the more flamboyant Evans. Sadly, whatever we do at the moment the midfield spine is not good enough.
     
  26. bod101

    bod101 Admin & No.4

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    we simply dont play the same game as we did second half of last season, we dont press the opposition when without the ball and dont play at any sort of tempo or move enough with. kj appears to fear other teams too much in this div and looks like he has team setup in a very cautious way. if we got our tempo back the formation and many of our players will look way better. we have players who can run at defences so lets get back to doing that and scare teams. if we go one up dont sit back and try and defend the lead inviting pressure. simple stuff that we seem to have stopped doing due to fear
     
  27. WS10Wolf

    WS10Wolf MolMix Poster of the Season 2013-14

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    McDonald and Price- not good enough (apparently).
    McDonald and Evans- not good enough (apparently).

    Spot the common denominator here folks. We can argue Evans or Price until the cows come home, it won't make a blind bit of difference unless McDonald bucks his ideas up.
     
  28. OLDGOLD

    OLDGOLD Just doesn't shut up

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    Bod I think one of the problems is that we don't have anyone who can run at defences through the middle of the park.
     
  29. Jameswwfc

    Jameswwfc Just doesn't shut up

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    I'd love to know what Jacobs has done. If he's not good enough why have him on the bench every week.
    At the start of the season I'd of been happy with a 10th-12th finish yet having seen how average the league is its annoying that we haven't the ambition to have a proper go.
     
  30. bod101

    bod101 Admin & No.4

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    i reckon jacobs could if given the encouragement to do so possibly others too but only if the teams mentality is such and that is whole problem for me.
     
  31. Perton Wolf

    Perton Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Well McDonald hasn't been great either, but he's still our best option in there by a mile. Says it all for the alternative options in Evans and Price.
     
  32. OLDGOLD

    OLDGOLD Just doesn't shut up

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    Players mentality or KJ's I wonder?
     
  33. bod101

    bod101 Admin & No.4

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    i would say kj's mainly and player confidence a distant second. this season we are playing safe and getting caught out. i've noticed players bring the ball forward into space then holding it up so everyone gets back in position. Up the tempo encourage movement and attacking player far too much pre prescribed positioning.
     
  34. Wolf316

    Wolf316 Just doesn't shut up

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    We should have signe Gued on loan.
     
  35. Hebburn Wolves

    Hebburn Wolves Just doesn't shut up

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    the 3 clubs you mention there are also ex premier league clubs
     
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  36. JW

    JW Just doesn't shut up

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    +1
     
  37. wwfc9

    wwfc9 Has a lot to say

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    Our defensive record over the 7/8 games previous to the Bolton game was almost faultless , the physical and athletic ability of Hause and iorfa contributed to this greatly , so why start tinkering when golbourne was again available!!
    I don't care if he's our first choice you shouldn't start changing something that is consistently working !! I also believe dickos strength , movement and hold up play is a major part of how we play yet when Kenny brings someone new in they are shoehorned in upsetting the rhythm !!
    I like afobe and he will score goals but I think if it's 1 up top it's dicko and afobe coming on last 20/30 mins not the other way round , the tinkering is frustrating as you can't help but think we could be so much better off than we actually are ...
     
  38. Tring Wolf

    Tring Wolf MolMix Poster of the Season Winner 2011-2012 and r

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    The 'fear' thing is an interesting point. We haven't actually had a go at teams since Mick's Championship winning season. In fact, my biggest criticism of MM was that he was overly conservative when we went up. I could understand it against the top teams but it used to infuriate me when we'd line up against Wigan or Stoke or Birmingham with two defensive midfielders (Henry and Mancienne/Castillo) with Foley right-midfield.

    As with MM, I just don't think this squad has the quality in midfield or the Number 10 role to really go at teams yet so he is having to try alternative combinations before getting the balance right.
     
  39. Wolf Pack leader

    Wolf Pack leader Has a lot to say

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    Looking at the list of players on the back of the programme yesterday, the 18 on duty were listed

    Apart from that there was

    Ikeme & Rowe injured

    Saville on loan

    Ricketts & Jacobs who are not in managers plans and a couple of kids like Flatt, McCarey and Keita

    We only have 21 players to pick 18 from so we virtually have a situation where if you are fit you play !!

    There is therefore very little competition for places.


    As far as I can see the only choices the manager has is 1 from 2 in the following positions: right back,left back, Price or Evans, RVLP or Henry

    The rest of the team [picks itself

    This is not good enough and the last three home games has demonstrated as clear as day that only bringing in Afobe was not enough and a huge opportunity has been lost
    The squad is minimum two players light of what it should be
     
  40. Edgmond Wolf

    Edgmond Wolf MolMix Poster of the Season Runner Up 2011-2012

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    Is the squad good enough....no.....if we know that so then does Jacket

    We have just had a transfer window.....hence why I am $$$$ed at our lack of ambition
     

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