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Hoddle’s past

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by SOA Wolf, Feb 21, 2006.

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  1. SOA Wolf

    SOA Wolf Guest

    This is a link to a story about Hoddle from the Observer....it is a long piece, but with some interesting points and plenty of quotes...I have copied out a few below as examples.


    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,6903,1053332,00.h tml


    Tony Cascarino described the effect of Hoddle's man management. 'Grown men feel as if they are being treated as children,' he wrote. 'There is a coldness to him... If Chelsea won, it was because of his decisions, and if we lost, it was our fault - never his.'


    There is little doubt that he lost the respect of a number of senior players because of the diary. This is David Seaman: 'We thought it was wrong for him to use us as material for his book without our knowledge. None of us like the way the book singled out players and picked on their bad points. It did not help morale at all.'


    The way in which he shifted the spotlight of blame for England's defeat on to Beckham after the sending off against Argentina; his tendency to belittle players for their technical limitations; his eagerness to display his own skills - 'If he was chocolate,' one England player observed, 'he would eat himself'; the betrayal of confidences in his diary - all these were about a lack of personnel skills, errors that were made worse by Hoddle's refusal ever to accept that they were errors.


    On leaving, most of them launched well-aimed attacks on Hoddle's management style. He was prone to sulking, they said, and would cold-shoulder anyone who disagreed with him. He would call team meetings, ask for the players' input and then tell them that they were wrong. Tim Sherwood appeared to sum up the feelings of a large part of the squad, when he said: 'No one at Tottenham would shed a single tear if Glenn Hoddle was sacked tomorrow. The dressing room is not together and there is no team spirit. He has absolutely no man-management skills.'


    Behind only Chelsea, Tottenham were the biggest net investors in players this summer. Yet somehow Hoddle managed to buy three strikers - Helder Postiga, Freddie Kanouté and Bobby Zamora - without securing a defensive midfield player. There is not one ball-winning midfielder in the squad. The fact is, any team will struggle if Darren Anderton is the nearest thing it has to a midfield stopper.
     
  2. Markwolf

    Markwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Sounds all too familiar doesn't it?
     
  3. wolfan

    wolfan Guest

    All very similar to this post. I'm Hoddled out now, it's all been said, even when we win it's not fun to watch any more.[​IMG]
     
  4. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Doesn't sound good and a few of his recent comments makes it seems as if blaming the players is becoming a more common trend for him.
     
  5. Black Suit

    Black Suit Guest

    At the foot of the article it says that he won the FA Cup in his second year at Chelsea? I thought that they got twonkedby Man Utd! He won a promotion with Swindon Town, but that's all I'm sure.


    Classic thick dick statement, 'At this moment in time, I never said them things.'


    11th, 14th, 11th and 11th, at Chelsea. He is a legend in his own mind.


    His success at Monaco was sponsored by the state which afforded the stars to move to the principality of dreams in Monte Carlo, in a pretty weak French competition at 'that moment in time.'


    He deserves respect for his achievements at Swindon and Southampton, without doubt. Sadly though, he then left for pastures new. A pattern that would repeat again and again without the successes.
     
  6. Swindon Wolf

    Swindon Wolf Guest

    Hoddle's success at Swindon was partly down to the fact that he was still playing and so was able to influence things on the pitch directly.


    At Southampton he walked intoa decent set up with a good squad.He only needed to keep things ticking over really as Southampton had very little ambitionbeyond finishing mid table.
     
  7. fenella

    fenella Guest

    All this stuff about his bad man-management skills doesn't seem to quite fit at Wolves though does it? I've read quotes from lots of players saying they really like him andhis training and appreciate what he's doing but I haven't heard any murmurings of discontent from players (and such murmurings normally get out into the public domain pretty quick).
     
  8. peckhamwolf

    peckhamwolf Guest

    I think to be fair he did turn things around at Southampton and their decline since his departure, albeit with a brief respite under Strachan, says as much.


    That said, the day he leaves I will throw a party in the office. FACT.
     
  9. westlyNTR

    westlyNTR Guest

    It can't be FACT if you are predicting something in the
    future due to factors out of your control i.e. the office
    may no longer be there or you may be locked in a
    padded cell.

    ACTUAL FACT
     
  10. basher

    basher Guest

    I'm not concerned about his past (that's been well documented) I'm more concerned about his present and the future!
     
  11. peckhamwolf

    peckhamwolf Guest


    I'm already locked in a padded cell IN the office, so I will be there. FACT.
     
  12. westlyNTR

    westlyNTR Guest

    But there may be a fire and the office may be burnt
    down the day before he leaves so you may not be
    there then,

    ABSOLUTE FACT
    Edited by: westlyNTR
     
  13. Sunday October 5, 2003



    nice to see you breaking the news SOA.....


    </font>
     
  14. SOA Wolf

    SOA Wolf Guest


    Not meant as new news SW, this was just ONE of the articles I read before we appointed square jaw and went towards the reasons why I had doubts about the logic of the decision.....saying that I did post saying I would give him a chance, but after 5 or 6 matches it was clear to me, and many others that the man was clueless...mainly by what we saw on the pitch which was no different from what we see now....but still the majority of people 'saw' a manager who was great and a wonderful coach improving players. It shows that most people will see what they want to see and not what is there. Had we had a football person on the board I am pretty sure some of this would have risen to the surface before we appointed him....the fact that other clubs do have people with more knowledge may be one of the reasons he has struggled to get back into the game before we came along.


    I say again, getting rid of Hoddle may cure the sympton, but not the cause of our problems...this information about how poor a manager he has been and his general attitude was available to anyone who wished to find out....if I were appointing the most senior post in my business, these are the sort of investigations I would do...and having seen all this would have not offered the man £500k and begged him to come, this is the sort of person you only offer the job to with a 'this is a chance to rescue your career' type scenario to....we appear to have been mugged and the people who have appointed him seem to be the ones who have really failed us.


    BTW as for the players not complaining....well there are little comments seeping out, but generally it appears he has convinced these guys that if their prozone stats look good then they must be playing well....


    'well Mr Kennedy, you made 100 passes in the match, that's a fabulous figure...and 90% success...remarkable...you really are playing well.....that figure?...oh that justtells youthe player you passed to most frequently.....don't worry about that one....well if you must know it was Postma....anyway Mark....'
     
  15. fenella

    fenella Guest

    SOA, I like the way you have cut and pasted lots of quotes slagging him off but not the ones like:


    'We all respected him so much,' one player recalls. 'He was distant, but not aloof.'


    "Steve White, a striker with Swindon, recalls simple, clear briefings. 'Every player knew absolutely 100 per cent what his job was all over the pitch.' "


    'My mother died recently,' says Hazard, 'and Glenn sat for two hours consoling me. That's the mark of a special man.'


    To get to the top you have to be selfish and his management style would come from that.'


    Waddle disputes the popular image of Hoddle as arrogant. 'It's not arrogance, it's confidence. I know people a lot larger than Glenn. I think he's down to earth. He's not a centre of attention. He's not Billy Big Time.'


    Just remember, there's two sides to every story.
     
  16. Deutsch Wolf

    Deutsch Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Roy Keane once said "Never believe a word Tony Cascarino says". I stand by that, the man is an absolute tool.
     
  17. basher

    basher Guest


    That depends on what agenda the other person has??
     
  18. westlyNTR

    westlyNTR Guest

    Roy Keane - the king of storytelling.

    Wouldn't believe anything that word twister says.
     
  19. what are the little comments seeping out from players SOA, i appear to have missed those?



    while i appreciate your comment about appointing a senior post in
    business, do you honestly think employing a football manager is like
    say appointing a company director/MD/2nd in command? there are surely a
    range of other factors that come into play here - most important being
    reputation. a small part of a business appointment, but absolutly
    enormous on football manager appointments. how the bloke goes down with
    the fans is crucial. e.g. was megson maybe best suited to getting us
    up? quite possibly, but we backed of employing him because of his WBA
    heritage.
     
  20. SOA Wolf

    SOA Wolf Guest

    Fenella, IF I had wanted to have created a one way argument I would not have posted the link.....I was pasting items that have been noticable in our own situation, but the size of the article made it a bit difficult to paste everything...I was not trying to hide anything and linked the article so you could getthe balanced view.


    Deutsch, you may say that about Cascarino, but first Keane was, I believe,reacting to Cascarino's admittance of his Irish ancestory...or lack of it...which, ta least he did own up to in the end....but then you have positive quotes from Steve White, the man who dived to get the penalty which ultimately got Swindon promoted in the play-off final and had a reputation of 'play-acting'...I was at the game when he went down holding his face and got Shane Westley sent off...so anything he says his doubtful in my book.


    Scottish, comments from Kenny about Hoddle in training on Soccer AM come to mind, I would have to look through some comments to find others....but to your point about the appointment...two of the things you commented on:


    most important being reputation. a small part of a business appointment, but absolutly enormous on football manager appointments. how the bloke goes down with the fans is crucial.


    Well surely that is the point this article is making, his reputation was not as great as many would have us believe....one cup final and a promotion....not exactly the greatest haul for a manager...and his repuation with players...dodgy to say the least. As for going down with the fans....again this has been spun, he was NOT popular before he was chosen...not many wanted him and this was reflected in the muted response when introduced to the crowd against Millwall. But, despite, what some would have you believe, Wolves fans are VERY supportive and rallied behind him and it is to their credit that they continued to back him for a year whilst watching this dross....complete blind support...as so many pointed out but so few wished to acknowledge until even they had to say...yep...it has been cr*p.


    Had Moxey...for it was he that wanted this man...had any idea what he was doing with regard to appointing a manager then Hoddle would never have been appointed.
     
  21. Wonder Boyo

    Wonder Boyo Just doesn't shut up

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    One of the reasons I originally wanted Hoddle to sign a new contract after last season was the general positive statements our players were making. I know you often have to take what players say about their manager with a pinch of salt, after all they want to keep him happy and stay in his good books......however many players came out and declared how much they were learning,training was more interesting, and their game and tactical awareness was improving. Most of them genuinely seemed to like Hoddlethen. DaveJones seemed to have difficult relationships with many of our squad.


    I also seem to remember Moxey (or maybe Rick) say how hard he was working, spending sometimes 12-14 hours a day at work and never leaving anything to chance. Things were organised down to the finest detail and players knew exactly what was expected of them. I don't know if things have changed since he signed his contract but everyone seemed happy with hismanagement style back then. Thelocal media have had a swipe at his lack of communication with fans but then the media will complain about anyone who doesn't have much to do withthem.


    For me the jury is still out, the football and tacticsrecently have been pants and it makes me question everything. Then again I hopeone day it may just click into place. Maybe we do need to be consistent with a manager and look long-termand give Hoddle time. The problem with this is that I don't thinkhe sees his time with Wolves as long-term and so that undermines everything and is the reason why the club and the fans want immediate success.Promotion had to happen soon with Hoddle orthe relationship was bound to fall apart.
     
  22. SOA, whoever we got - they are not going to have won much as otherwise
    they would be at a premiership club. which manager who has actually won
    anything would come to wolves? name them. its a stupid stupid worthless
    arguement against hoddle. and also completely ignores the fact
    that he is the 2nd most successful england manager on stats (i know you
    like your facts).



    reputation with players - well its considerbly more high profile
    because he was england manager. i suspect a few people didnt rate one G
    Taylor very highly on his man mngt - but many on here think he was a
    good manager for us who was unlucky. what would you say on that? every
    high profile manager has their detractors amongst the players. look at
    Arry now?



    i didnt comment on how he went down with the fans - i said reputation
    was part of selecting a manager. i think you would have found the
    response to megson might have been even more 'muted'. also in terms of
    the football being played the last 8 weeks of last season, most people
    were very happy with our play. we went unbeaten for a long time, and i
    seem to remember the biggest complaint you had was we couldnt keep a
    clean sheet, rather than crying for the head of hoddle. well now we can
    keep a clean sheet at least - you should be pleased [​IMG]



    those miller comments being dragged up again eh? great evidence mate -
    these were the comments he made in the middle of being injured werent
    they? when his mind was on moving elsewhere? id trust his off the cuff
    comments....
     
  23. basher

    basher Guest

    Fair do's SOA, you've been consistent in your denouncement of Hoddle from the very start.


    I'll admit I was less than impressed by his appointment, but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.


    Sadly the last three months performances have made my mind up for me. Along withhis reluctance to change his tactics and formations to benefit the players he has at his disposal.
     
  24. fenella

    fenella Guest

    SOA, the main criticisms of Hoddle that come out of that article is that he tends to treat old, experienced players like children and he has poor judgement when given £40m quid to spend on players.


    He has performed very poorly this season with what is mostly players that he has inherited who are struggling to fit into his prefered formation.


    However, looking long-term at the club, it is obvious that we are going to be relying on nurturing the talent that our academy produces - something that I don't think we've been at all successful with in recent years. The decision on whether Hoddle is the right man for the job therefore depends on how well you think he will be able to bring in and develop these youngsters and turn them into accomplished Championship or Premiership players. I don't know.


    I'd like to hear what young players like Ledley King, Robbie Keane and Mark Davies think of Hoddle rather than what Cascarino, Sherwood or Seaman think as this will give us a better idea of whether Hod is up to the job. I suspect that young players appreciate his coaching and man-management abilities.


    Again, in the long term, if we are going to persist with Hod and his 4-3-3 formation, we need to get the academy and reserve teams playing the same formation and slowly develop youngsters who are confident playing this way. It may just work.
     
  25. good points fenella



    oh id also forgotten about sherwood slagging off hoddle. oddly enough -
    after he was dropped? but then again im sure its a balanced point of
    view and not bitter at all. lets take it at face value
     
  26. SOA Wolf

    SOA Wolf Guest

    Cheers Basher.


    Wonder Boyo, I appreciate the fact that these comments were made...trouble is that surely I do not have to convince anyone about spin coming from the club do I? So all this 'I'm working hard, he's working hard, they are working hard we are working hard' garbage that gets rolled out regularly means nothing....just be effective people....you get paid a lot of money...people should remember that the current set of groundrules which football is run under, with high pay etc, were NOT created by the fans, or their expectations, but by those who run the game...they created the FA Premiership, the Championship, the high wages...most people in the game are paid far more than any other industry with a similar income level.


    Scottish...you did make comment aboy the fans, that's why I quoted you...but to answer the question about a manager who wins things...sorry you were the one who mentioned using repuation as a reason for appointing someone...so what was the reason for appointing Hoddle....his success in this division......years ago with Swindon? or the fact he had walked out on Swindon, then Chelsea, then Southampton or been a complete failure at Spurs? Or possibly because he was an ex_England coach....? So that is it? Hang on hadn't we been down this road before.....now maybe you can tell me how many ex-England coaches became successful managers in their first English club appointments....Not Taylor...failed with us...not Robson, had to go abroad first, not Venables, not Greenwood, not Revie...not even Ramsey.....not great is it.


    Do not forget we chased this man and had to offer him a lot of money...he set the criteria.....the expectation, him and those who appointed him.


    As for trusting off the cuff comments, frankly I trust those more than the pre-prepared spin we get.
     
  27. SOA Wolf

    SOA Wolf Guest

    Good points Fenella, I too would love to hear what the younger players have to say.
     
  28. Del Woppio

    Del Woppio Guest


    me being one of them. If i look through some of my previous posts, my support for Hoddle was bordering on obsessive gayness. It's now, thanks to SOA [​IMG], that I realise Hoddle is a tool.
     
  29. SOA Wolf

    SOA Wolf Guest


    Surely not?!!?[​IMG]
     
  30. Del Woppio

    Del Woppio Guest

    slight exaggeration, but you get the point!!
     
  31. goldeneyed

    goldeneyed Just doesn't shut up

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    At the end of the day all I am interested in at the moment is results. He appears rather cold on the surface and he certainly hasn't made any effort to connect with the fans but if he can do a good professional job and get us up I couldn't care less.


    But so far Hoddle's team have produced cr*p for most of the season. The formation (whatever it actually is)does not work, our goal tally, particularly at home, is pathetic. He has failed to get in the young, agressive defensive midfielder we so obviously needand persisted in playing the likes of Miller, Cort and Clarke out on the wing. The team have looked poorly motivated in general and key players like Lescott, Seol, Naylor etc have deteriorated to an extraordinary degree. He has failed to ignite Olo andgambled our whole transfer budget on the 31 year old Pole while starving him of any proper support or service.


    Whatever the players are saying or not saying about his management style the product out on the pitch has so far been abysmal.


    If he gets us into the play offs by getting the team on a late impressive winning runhe can have one more go at it next season (even if we don't get up this time). If not, then out.
     
  32. Wonder Boyo

    Wonder Boyo Just doesn't shut up

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    I think that's a fair point, it's in the best interests of the club to say how hard everone is working. I still think some of the players were genuinely happy and don't think they said that under pressure from the club....but we will never really know. However I do think what you say is a fair point as now the the rumblings from the club are ones that are distancing them from Hoddle, so it seems theywill say what ever suits that at the time. I can't imagine he's changed his work ethic over night.
     
  33. Scottish...you did make comment aboy the fans, that's why I quoted
    you...




    quoted yes, taken out of context - a yes as well




    "but to answer the question about a manager who wins
    things...sorry you were the one who mentioned using repuation as a
    reason for appointing someone...so what was the reason for appointing
    Hoddle....his success in this division......years ago with Swindon?"




    so success years ago with swindon means nothing, but a load of
    tittle tattle from dropped players in 2003 is gosepl? lets have some
    consistency SOA




    "or
    the fact he had walked out on Swindon, then Chelsea, then Southampton
    or been a complete failure at Spurs?"




    so - failure at one club? hmm - show me 5 managers who havent failed at one club




    "Or possibly because he was an
    ex_England coach....? So that is it? Hang on hadn't we been down this
    road before.....now maybe you can tell me how many ex-England coaches
    became successful managers in their first English club
    appointments....Not Taylor...failed with us...not Robson, had to go
    abroad first, not Venables, not Greenwood, not Revie...not even
    Ramsey.....not great is it."




    again you take me out of context SOA - seems to be a habit of yours
    developing there? You say he has no reputation, i was merely pointing
    out he is the second most successful england manager on stats








    "Do not forget we chased this man and had to offer him a lot of
    money...he set the criteria.....the expectation, him and those who
    appointed him. As for trusting off the cuff comments, frankly I trust those more than the pre-prepared spin we get."




    ok - we agree to disagree on this. back to your point, can you
    provide evidence of players making comments as you said in your post?
    or is it just a couple of quotes from miller, which it seems to be. a
    huge body of evidence there...




    also - you didnt really answer any of my questions. and it continues
    to amuse me that you blast the concept of spin, when in fact you post
    like a politican, not answering other peoples points but belathering on
    about your own agenda.
     
  34. Kris Kringle

    Kris Kringle Has a lot to say

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    Same here. Thaks for showing me the light SOA Wolf. [​IMG]

    Edited by: Kris Kringle
     


  35. oh my god he's like the bloody pied piper grooming you all.....
     
  36. peckhamwolf

    peckhamwolf Guest


    Quite why I'm arguing with you whenmy point was todemonstrate my amusementthat posters seem to think using the word FACT at some point in their posts adds credibility I don't know. Perhaps I'm in one of those 'pick a fight with anyone' moods....
     
  37. Kris Kringle

    Kris Kringle Has a lot to say

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    All Hail SOA Wolf [​IMG]

    (Until we go on a 6 game winning run)



    Edited by: Kris Kringle
     
  38. Kris Kringle

    Kris Kringle Has a lot to say

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    FACT
     
  39. Deutsch Wolf

    Deutsch Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Only four games to go......


    dw [​IMG]
     
  40. westlyNTR

    westlyNTR Guest

    I would have thought you should have learnt your
    lesson as you have just come back from a ban....but
    there's no helping some people.

    TRUE

    Anyway back on topic.....
     
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