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Direction of the club - upward or downward?

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by Sammy Chungs Tracksuit, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Sammy Chungs Tracksuit

    Sammy Chungs Tracksuit Just doesn't shut up

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    Following on from the fans parliament thread where the club are unwilling to spend money fixing the PA system and will only sanction money on a somewhat less than adequate scoreboard if it more than pays for itself in advertising revenues by pointing at the TV cameras and will not even be visible to 5000+ seats in the stadium itself, it got me thinking about the general direction that Morgan and Moxey are taking the club at the moment.

    IMO the club's direction is a complete shambles. It does not not fill me with any confidence for the future especially post parachute money IF we fail to get promoted. I'd say we currently have at best a 50% chance of reaching the play offs which themselves are a lottery so maybe a 12.5% chance of promotion this season hence the chances are that we will be in the Championship next season.

    Turnover in the accounts just released were £32m of which £16m was parachute money. This season turnover will probably be around the £24 to £26m mark with the same again next season and it will fall to maybe around £16m to £18m when the parachute money runs out.

    Theoretically with the bomb squad moved on we should be in a better position to fund new signings next season however with just a year of £8m parachute money remaining I cant see us pushing the boat out on transfer signings as Moxey and Morgan will have an eye on the likelyhood of even leaner times ahead. Much as I have great confidence in Jackett the only way out of this mess is if he works miracles and gets us up this season or next despite him being underfunded.

    Also assuming that Morgan is unlikely to be putting his hand in his pocket to fund the club any time soon, I cant see that running a CAT 1 academy will be sustainable because the FA stipulates a minimum annual budget of £2.5m must be spent. So 2 years down the line I would expect us to surrender CAT 1 status on the academy on budgetary grounds because you cant afford to spend £2.5m on an academy and remain competitive in the championship on a turnover of just £16m to £18m. There is also the possibility that income may slide as we start becoming a mid-table championship side going nowhere fast. Will Morgan really care if the academy loses its CAT 1 status? I doubt it once the nearby housing development is fully completed. Who knows, maybe some of the academy land could even be developed in future too if the academy is scaled back in the name of necessary cutbacks to keep the club afloat.

    Thats my concerns about the direction that the club is taking. Do other fans think I being unduly pessimistic negative or just realistic?
     
  2. BlahBlah

    BlahBlah Just doesn't shut up

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    I see it a bit like this, over the last 30 years. Ironing out the peaks and troughs, the promises , the plans, the strategies, occasional brief highs and lows :

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  3. goldeneyed

    goldeneyed Just doesn't shut up

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    Realistic. There is every reason to believe that we are heading for a decade of second division stagnation. A turnover of £16-£18m in today's football world is pathetic, utterly pathetic for a club of our potential. The gap between us and even the lower half Premierships side is likely to become a chasm.

    The two Ms have shown not the slightest urgency this season to push on and I doubt things will be much different next season when we will have lost Sako for nothing. Our best players like Iorfa won't want to hang around a second division side that is simply coasting from one season to another. It will be Lescott all over again. Once your best players go then what upward trajectory can be expected?

    A very different sound needs to emanate from Morgan and quickly if this dire prediction is not to be fulfilled. KJ will keep us in the division as things stand but that is about it.
     
  4. Jonzy54

    Jonzy54 Just doesn't shut up

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    Like I posted on the Parliament thread why aren't we vigorously working on bringing people in to lighten the load financially?Morgan can't plead 'poverty' as far as the club is concerned and then not actively pursue a way of taking the club further.
     
  5. wwbug

    wwbug Just doesn't shut up

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    Floating , head down.
     
  6. RosehillWolf

    RosehillWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    We are no longer a big club, and we need an owner who shares the same passion of the fans. We are just treading water now, and we will be in this Division for a very long time unless some serious cash is given to buy the players to get us to the PL. This malarkey about the academy is pie in the sky, and I'm afraid all I see is an average roduct, played by average players in a lop sided ground. The potential is there , and thats undeniable... but we are stuck with these two in charge as there seems no alternative
     
  7. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    Lets face it, this mystical "cat one" academy status is a bit like the tale of the emperors new clothes with people gawping at the glittering gold robes marvelling at how resplendent the naked emperor looks deluding themselves there is actually anything of substance there. Over 30 clubs in the football league have cat one status so what makes our fantastic blueprint of success any better than these other clubs other than blind hope? People point out to the fact we have young players from the academy playing, but that hardly endorses anything when due to lack of adequate investment we wouldn't have a team to put out if these young/hungry/ cheap alternatives didn't play.

    The academy is merely an excuse peddled out by the powers that be to mitigate lack of spending where it really matters.. the first team, as Morgan knows there will always be people believing in the building plan/ rome wasn't built in a day nonsense with glory apparently awaiting like a modern day Ajax in 3005. Even if we do produce these fantastic young players people allude to, they will simply be sold on as no talented player will want to ply his trade at a stagnant championship club displaying no ambition watched by a fanbase left over who is happy to "consolidate" year after year incase lord forbid " we do a portmouth".

    Unfortunately our owner is unwilling to spend not just his own money but money coming into the club from player transfers.. we sold Jarvis fletcher etc for over 30 million and invested less than half. People talk about 2 million for afobe simply quoting the same paper that stated we paid over 8 million for Johnson and over 5 million for O Hara 3 years ago which wasn't true either. It's my understanding the DEAL was 2 million but this is composed of numerous clauses such as promotion etc with the initial fee around 650 grand. Every transfer window we have a list of players that are apparent targets but we aren't going to sign them so don't understand why anyone raises their hopes of doing so.

    One final comment I would like to make regards Jackett and don't understand why he receives the abuse he does regarding not strengthening the squad. He is not in charge of finances, Morgan/ Moxey is and we know Jackett submitted a wish list of players such as callum Wilson etc but Morgan wouldn't sanction these transfers. Do people honestly believe after Jackett stating he wanted Wilson, he would suddenly say " well I don't want him cos his wages are too high even though I don't pay them" The truth of the matter is, if we had a half decent owner, we would have acquired these players but as we haven't people are screaming for Jackett to leave which is grossly unfair as he is massively over achieving with this poorly invested squad
     
  8. Sammy Chungs Tracksuit

    Sammy Chungs Tracksuit Just doesn't shut up

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    I dont think Morgan pleads anything though Jonzy. There is just a void of comment from him. I get the feeling that he wants the club to remain 100% under his control and to pay its way so I cant realistically see him opening the doors to external investment any time soon. I do think Morgan would like to see us promoted in an ideal world but not if it involved significant additional investment from himself or diluting his stake in the club,

    Moxey's comment about the renaming of Molineux. (i.e. only if his boss tells him to) was slightly concerning too. Not an outright denial that this would be considered so I cant help but think that this will probably be on the cards soon now that SJH is not around to voice any objections.
     
  9. Leigh72

    Leigh72 Just doesn't shut up

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    Stagnation im afraid, no ambition to even try to compete in the upper echelons of the game, very very sad.
     
  10. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Can somebody tell me of all the clubs receiving Premiership money how many of them were in the playoffs last week?
     
  11. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Newcastle have a ground thats complete, 50k fans everyweek, decent prices, decent City, a fan in charge of them? How are they doing?
     
  12. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    In the playoffs last week? The playoffs are in May and positions change on a weekly basis so using the argument that Cardiff, Fulham who are massively underachieving as evidence our philosophy as a club is fit for purpose is a weak argument
     
  13. BrummieNick

    BrummieNick Just doesn't shut up

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    This summer is extremly important for us with high earners all gone and a streamline squad and parachute payment to come ,also good figures regards FFP so we could make a loss without getting in any trouble. We should be to give Kenny the room to bring 4 good first team signings. I'm not holding my breath.
     
  14. tf7

    tf7 Senior Member

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    We are currently lop sided , just like the NEW north bonk....
     
  15. Sedgley Gold N Black

    Sedgley Gold N Black Just doesn't shut up

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    After seeing the notes yesterday regarding transfers it seems now that we aren't going to proactive in chasing promotion (which is exactly the opposite of what everyone at the club has been feeding to us) and are simply banking on one season where everything just falls right.

    That happens, see Burnley last season, and could well happen for us next season but there are equally plenty of teams who've waited half a decade or longer for that and it hasn't even come close for them yet.

    I really thought given their comments regarding aims that we would be going for it next year after identifying the few gaps this season but that looks unlikely now.

    Disappointed to say the least.
     
  16. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    They're in the premier league , a place we wont see probably for another generation with the young and hungry academy consolidating indefinitely on a rolling contract and no completion date in sight. As another poster alluded to on a separate thread, its always tomorrow with wolves and never today
     
  17. Sandwell Wolf

    Sandwell Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Their fans are worse than ours.
     
  18. Jonzy54

    Jonzy54 Just doesn't shut up

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    I meant it figuratively hence 'poverty'.I mean it in the light that we have drawn our horns in and are not pushing the boat out to make much needed signings.
     
  19. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Wolves, Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn, Cardiff, Fulham with only Norwich just sneaking in after the sacking of their manager & Brentfords seemingly crazy approach to theirs.

    What about last season, Leicester/Burnley nope & a very lucky playoff win for QPR.

    Money in this league is not everything. The right manager getting the right players in is.
     
  20. Bumbamuffin

    Bumbamuffin Just doesn't shut up

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    Stagnant until the parachute money goes and then backwards until we get a change in ownership.
     
  21. Jonzy54

    Jonzy54 Just doesn't shut up

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    Many of their fans don't consider him a fan as he was born in Buckinghamshire and they have wanted him out for ages.
     
  22. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    How much money did Solbakken spend 2 years ago? What about the SJH years?

    KJ has brought 15 players in, oh but he should have spent £5m of Adam Forshore who had Wigan in the bottom 3.
     
  23. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    Morgan once said " If the fans don't want me here I will leave".. yet another broken promise along the lines of " we wont be here again" after Blackburn and completing the ground etc. I hope people realise the limitations Jackett is working under when we cant compete with clubs in our own division for players instead of drawing up lists of people who could do any better under the 2 Ms. As the famous phrases states " The definition of insanity is repeating the same action over and over again expecting the same result".. the manager(s) at wolves haven't been the problem just the owner. Sadly there is always a large percentage of people scared we may do a Portsmouth and continually referring to clubs doing worse than we are to mitigate morgans failure instead of top flight clubs better run than we are.

    When we were in the premier league , our attendances were ranked 12th in the division and bearing in mind our ground capacity/ low expectations illustrate we have a premier league size club/ fanbase but a conference standard owner who is an absolute disgrace IMO and the sooner he leaves the better
     
  24. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    You hear that all you none West Midland people ;)
     
  25. Sandwell Wolf

    Sandwell Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I can't wait for Wolves to be back in the Premier League where we lose over 50% of the time and there will be even more expectation on the manager, more negativity posted on here and more fair weather fans back in the ground. Can't wait.
     
  26. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    We lost our two best players Fletcher/ Jarvis and Morgan and reinvested less than half of it to " strengthen" with a net spend of minus 15 million... is that evidence of ambition in your opinion? Sell over 30 millions worth of player and invest half of it at best. Maybe if we sold sako for 3 million in January and reinvested 1 million that would be evidence we were on our way to doing a Portsmouth ?
     
  27. @Nat_WWFC88

    @Nat_WWFC88 Has a lot to say

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    I view Wolves like a swing. Completely devoid of real football people.

    "Let's throw money at a foreign manager and change our philosophy - that's not working after six months, sack him"

    "Let's grow our own talent and invest little money into the first team"

    "New stadium - uh oh, relegation, scrap that"

    Here's the thing. It's all about balance. You cannot just have the Academy, you've got to invest in the first team. It's not even about the money per se, it's about how we spend it.

    I have been very, very surprised, for instance, at Kevin Thelwells input this season. Our recruitment given our resources has to be up there with one of the worst in the division. Not only in terms of players in, but in terms of missed targets and lack of back up plan. Thank good Delort didn't come off, as Wigan are holding that award currently. That's a real concern. One i feel will be addressed in the Summer. If it isn't i think Wolves have shown a real signal of no intent.

    One thing i will say, is that fans do need to realign their expectations. Wolves are a huge club, but it really means nothing. Potential gets you nowhere. Huge clubs are in a worse position than ourselves at the moment.

    The key indicators for the senior board members, i feel, are: Are Wolves losing money? Is the academy bringing success?

    Everything is financially driven. Can we compensate for that with getting our recruitment right? Presently, i don't think so.
     
  28. Sammy Chungs Tracksuit

    Sammy Chungs Tracksuit Just doesn't shut up

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    Not many to be fair but Middlesborough are owned by a rich fan who is willing to stick his hand in his pocket to support his passion. Bournmouth are owned by an ambitious Russian oligarch, Derby and Brentford are both willing to invest in players, Watford's italian owner also owns Udinese in Italy and Granada in Spain and is keen on getting Watford promoted. That leaves only Ipswich who are maybe run on a similar basis to Wolves. Norwich, Fulham and Cardiff all have another 3 years of premiership money ahead of them and seemingly far more ambitious owners than we have. No doubt the relegated clubs will be in a good position too with 4 years of better parachute money than we got ahead of them. No other prem relegated club has ever got relegated to L1 wasting valuable parachute funded premiership bounce back-ability time.
     
  29. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    We know there is a direct correlation between league position and wages for players so to vindicate your argument using teams who have all enjoyed more success in recent years than wolves as evidence we are going about things the right way is madness. Wigan have won the FA cup ffs 3 years ago.. imagine us achieving that under Morgan, utterly laughable. Cardiff have a brand new completed stadium , maybe Morgan will finish ours this lifetime although I doubt it . Brentford have a bizarre approach to their manager but are comfortably above us so whats your argument? That because you can mention Fulham ( who have had more recent years in the prem than we have or will ever have under Morgan) and Blackburn who are one game away from Wembley this season are worse run? There are always going to be examples of worse run clubs , you cant keep trotting out lists of other clubs to vindicate our pathetic owner and his actions. There will always be " a blackpool" etc for the easily pleased but what about the southamptons, swanseas, west broms of this world that you conveniently leave out of your post.

    I'm thankful you don't work on the jury service as if an individual was convicted of murder ,you would probably advocate a conditional discharge stating " never mind guys" what about jack the ripper and ted bundy , he isn't as bad as them so it could be worse." A crazy argument ..
     
  30. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    I know, the trips to Rotheram and Brentford this season have been a blast haven't they. Lets not show any ambition and just pray for the odd day of glory against these footballing powerhouses and a giant killing against the baggies in the cup
     
  31. Mr Wolf

    Mr Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Because you're on about spending money like that is what gets you up when it's shown that it doesn't.
     
  32. Mutchy

    Mutchy Administrator

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    Steve Morgan has genuine respect and affection for Sir Jack, and his grief at Sir Jack's loss is very real. I would be surprised if he is in any rush to do something that would go against Sir Jack like that.
     
  33. Sammy Chungs Tracksuit

    Sammy Chungs Tracksuit Just doesn't shut up

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    Maybe but if the manager is so restricted that most of his targets are unattainable it makes it hard or impossible to get the right players in as they have to settle for 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th choice free transfers that other clubs dont want or maybe even nobody at all.

    Jackett wanted Wilson in the summer who was sold for £3m. Our board were not willing to compete with Bournemouth to sign him and with the benefit of hindsight he has been a key part of Bournemouth's success this season. Maybe if we had signed him in the summer this season would have been very different.

    The comments from the parliament say it all about the boards ambition. An exception was made to sign Afobe. Why is it considered an exception to sign a single player that was so deperately needed with only 1 effective striker at the club? Moxey and Morgan are always looking to do the absolute minimum that is deemed necessary (with the exception of the rushed signings under Solbakken after selling Fletch, Kites and Jarvo so late. They clearly thought these would be enough to bounce straight back up again!)
     
  34. Sammy Chungs Tracksuit

    Sammy Chungs Tracksuit Just doesn't shut up

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    Well I hope you are right Mutchy. Moxey clearly is less sure though otherwise he could just have said that Molineux would never be renamed for commercial gain.
     
  35. sensiblewolf

    sensiblewolf Banned

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    What part of there being a direct correlation between wages and league position don't you grasp? It isn't about transfer fees, Leicester / QPR last season were two of the top wage payers and Burnley were an anomaly .. if your argument is true why are blackpool bottom of our division when for most of the season they had a team full of kids / free transfers / low wages. Are you honestly saying our blueprint of bringing kids into the team who will be sold anyway when a prem clubs comes calling and spending peanuts on wages is the way forward? We may as well buy a ladybird book of witch spells as our main hope for the future , start reciting that and be done with it.. of course spending money doesn't guarantee anything but our footballing philosophy if anyone dare call it that is doomed to failure
     
  36. Jim Bowen

    Jim Bowen Just doesn't shut up

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    Yeah it's much better to drop to the third division where we can batter teams every week who have attendances of 4000 and budgets that wouldn't look out of place in non-league football.
     
  37. Sedgley Gold N Black

    Sedgley Gold N Black Just doesn't shut up

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    The problem is that won't happen whilst the club continue to feed us lies about aiming for promotion just as they have done this season.

    If they were honest, came out and said look we simply can't afford it were laying out x plan for the next 3/5 years to bring through a team and slowly develop it and that means it's unlikely we'll be challenging for promotion for a few years.

    They would get a lot of questions and yes probably a lot of immediate backlash but I think most supporters would appreciate the honesty and would be far more realistic about things.
     
  38. @Nat_WWFC88

    @Nat_WWFC88 Has a lot to say

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    That's a fair point. With that in mind, do the club honestly believe they have enough in their playing personnel to gain promotion?

    Would fans still buy season tickets if the club came out and were so brutally honest?
     
  39. Matt

    Matt Just doesn't shut up

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    Absolutely 100% this, +1, this in spades etc etc. Nail on the head for me.
     
  40. Ewok vs Wolf

    Ewok vs Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    As much as some of us would love the honesty i don't think the majority would accept that, we don't have a divine right for promotion but people expect us to certainly be challenging.
    I still think this season is a great year for promotion - It's only going to get tougher next season. I like your point and it's bang on but would you really trust the current manager and board to have a successful plan like that in place over 3-5 years? I'm not sure.
     

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