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Chelsea and Mancienne

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix Archive' started by A wanderer from Bristol, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. A wanderer from Bristol

    A wanderer from Bristol Just doesn't shut up

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    Just wondering if Terry's red card stands and the the F.A. investigate Alex's alleged stamp, might they recall Mancienne from loan as short term cover?

    I think Carvalho is still injured, but I don't know for how long.

    I guess, on the other hand, the January transfer window is nearly upon us and also Scolari has said he doesn't think Mancienne is ready for the Prem. So if he doesn't think he's ready then Scolari will look elsewhere.

    And... given the form of Collins, will Mancienne make the team for boxing day anyway?
     
  2. Jonzy54

    Jonzy54 Just doesn't shut up

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    The 3 games Terry will miss are Boxing Day,Sunday,when mancienne is still with us and then the FAcup game
     
  3. A wanderer from Bristol

    A wanderer from Bristol Just doesn't shut up

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    So effectively the only game of terry's ban they could recall him for is the FA cup game which will be lower priority. Far better for them to leave him with us and continue his development.

    Thanks Jonzy. I must have pre xmas nerves - looking for something to worry about :D
     
  4. johnybig32

    johnybig32 Just doesn't shut up

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    If MM is fit...he will play...
     
  5. sy king

    sy king Guest

    which does seem to go against Mcarthy's ethic of if you get the shirt you keep it on merit.. that said, even as good as collins was on saturday (judging by reports), i'd still rather mancienne played againt Sheff U, than Collins
     
  6. Sedgley Wolf

    Sedgley Wolf Guest

    Then again, Collins was absolutely outstanding at Bramall Lane and coped with their aerial threat admirably.

    Would Mancienne, for all his undoubted attributes, be better qualified to take on the likes of James Beattie?
     
  7. johnybig32

    johnybig32 Just doesn't shut up

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    Despite his size, MM is very good in the air. He has a great leap and in comparison to Collins, there is none im afraid IMO.
     
  8. Mancwolf

    Mancwolf Guest

    I tend to agree with you there. If you were to pick the best two defenders to cope with that threat I'd actually go with Mancienne and Collins. Collins, like you say, is by far our best centre-back aerially. Combined with his physical strength I'd say he's best suited to cope with Beattie. And however well Stearman's been playing, you have to admit that Mancienne's the better player. It will certainly be interesting to see who he goes for.
     
  9. Bend It Like Dennison

    Bend It Like Dennison Just doesn't shut up

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    Dont be surprised to see Collins keep the shirt though.

    Keogh shouldnt have kept his shirt for the last 2 games... but he did.
     
  10. leedswolf

    leedswolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Like he did at Cardiff after the Swansea home fixture you mean?
     
  11. basher

    basher Guest

    It's a no brainer you retarded nobbers!!

    Mancienne over Collins every single time.
     
  12. Elephant Pyjamas

    Elephant Pyjamas Has a lot to say

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    :d
     
  13. sy king

    sy king Guest

    Why... Collins is a way better defender?
     
  14. basher

    basher Guest

    Stop embarrassing yourself.
     
  15. sy king

    sy king Guest

    how am i?
     
  16. Pengwern

    Pengwern Just doesn't shut up

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    Collins' header was a classic - something hardly any modern players can do. Dougan, Gilzean and all the great headers of the past could always twist their head perfectly to direct an aerial ball into the right place in the net, altering the ball's trajectory. Hardly any aerial goals compare to that nowadays - a lot are off shoulders and the ones that come off the head don't involve a player twisting his neck to re-direct the flight of the ball. They don't have the timing or the courage to do that. Collins is technically superb at exactly that and he will probably score half a dozen each season of these goals at whatever level he plays once he is fully matured as a footballer. If he can improve his footwork over the next season or so and cut out the mistakes he makes with the ball at his feet, he will be a fantastic centre back. I hope he gets to play for Scotland (my other team). Once he has overcome the barracking and the weaknesses in his game, this and his courage will make him captain material.
     
  17. Elephant Pyjamas

    Elephant Pyjamas Has a lot to say

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    Would you play him ahead of Mancienne on Boxing day?
     
  18. SaleWolf

    SaleWolf Guest

    If Mancienne is fit, he has to start.

    Mancienne - Potentially one of the best defenders England have got

    Collins - A very average, mistake prone Scot with no class at all.
     
  19. Toon Wolf

    Toon Wolf Guest

    The only one demonstrating no class here is you. What a toolbag post.
     
  20. haden-wolf

    haden-wolf Guest

    If MM is fit he starts as per the agreement with chelsea
     
  21. Kenny-11

    Kenny-11 Guest

    We have no agreement with Chelsea, bar that we will keep him until the 29th December
     
  22. fullmoon

    fullmoon Guest

    Still with every match at stakes, i would still go for MM and Stearman.
    Its great to see Collins playing well too. Goes to show the team depth are coming in age. Still,if Collins is called upon to play, i am sure he would not dissapoint us;).
     
  23. SaleWolf

    SaleWolf Guest

    Why?

    Collins may have been playing ok in his few performances of late but certainly has no class, especially when you compare him to Mancienne.
     
  24. Kenny-11

    Kenny-11 Guest

    Its 2 different type of defenders though.

    Mancienne is the better of the 2, no doubt at all. Its not Collins fault he doesn't have the same class as Mancienne though.

    What Collins is though is a 100% committed player who I would back when our backs are against the wall. He had a dreadful season last time around. Mainly due to him playing at left back, losing his confidence and having the crowd on his back (to the extent of getting boo'd when he came on in a pre-season at Walsall). The season before he proved he was a decent defender for this level and he is proving that again this season.

    He went from preparing for bench duty to a sudden call up and earned MOTM at the weekend. Mancienne will more than likely start v Sheff Utd but if Collins gets the nod I won't be to upset.
     
  25. Sedgley Wolf

    Sedgley Wolf Guest

    Thoughtfully put :rolleyes:

    No-one's denying that Mancienne is a better player than Collins.

    The point that's been made however, and rightly so, is that Neill Collins has already shown he can cope with a player like Beattie when called upon.

    To drop him would be very harsh considering he's our best defender in the air and hasn't put a foot wrong in a good while.
     
  26. JR's Boots

    JR's Boots Just doesn't shut up

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    Will Mancienne definitely be returning to Chelsea after 29th Dec or is there a chance his loan will be extended?
     
  27. Wolv3nsam

    Wolv3nsam Just doesn't shut up

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    I'm rather surprised that seeing as we're apparently interested in Scott Sinclair and have had contact with Chelsea regarding his availability, we haven't asked them about extending Mancienne's loan. I was hoping that would have been sorted by now.
     
  28. haden-wolf

    haden-wolf Guest

    Not the way I hear it Kenny, I wouldn't normally comment as people end up getting slaughtered but it is from a pretty good source.

    I don't know anything about the extension of the contract, apart from the mancienne bit the main gist of the conversation I had was pretty much all of the squad have never known a better atmosphere at a club and feel like it's playing with their mates, rather than team mates
     
  29. MobNet Wolf

    MobNet Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Seen the contract then have you? I don't think you can be quite so sure. Not saying there is one, but you can't rule out such an agreement so easily. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is a clause that stipulates if Mancienne is fit he must play.
     
  30. johnybig32

    johnybig32 Just doesn't shut up

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    We have Shackell and Craddock too...IMO COllins is behind them in turn of ability!
     
  31. haden-wolf

    haden-wolf Guest

    If there IS such an agreement (which I am lead to believe there is - Remember NC was also given an improved contract just before MM came in?)

    It's not harming our team from a results point of view and it's not halming morale either. It's resulted in a pacey (which was the main requirement most on here wanted) central defence, we then have two back up players in Collins and Shack who are capable at this level, plus Craddock on the mend if really needed.

    IMHO if we don't extend mm's loan we'll bring someone else in, but it seems as long as big phil is in charge at the bridge MM is surplus to requirement. I'd have thought the biggest danger to our prospects with him if he's used as a make weight in some deal
     
  32. Poztin

    Poztin Just doesn't shut up

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    Yea players these days just let it bounce off their head and hope for the best...

    (You could leave your front door unlocked in those days too etc etc)
     
  33. NathanP100

    NathanP100 Guest

    Mick implied that there is no agreement when talking about bringing Sinclair in on loan:

    “These players need to play, it’s like Mark Davies going from us to Leicester. I would never give anyone a guarantee – they have to earn the right to play – but when you’re taking loan players, you’re taking them with a view to playing them."

    http://www.expressandstar.com/2008/12/17/wolves-interested-in-sinclair/
     
  34. leedswolf

    leedswolf Just doesn't shut up

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  35. Atlas 1951

    Atlas 1951 Guest

    I was one of the first to join the Mancienne love-in; in fact, I started it, selling loose threads from his debut shirt to pilgrims on the road to Damascus (buses were very slow), writing epistles to the apostles about the elegent curve of his trapezius and his sly-boy/shy-boy smile. I would still buff his hairless obsidian ass to a shine with a chamois leather if he asked me to (or, failing that, if he raised no objections to a go-between's unsubtle advances) but, as a unit, Mancienne-Stearman is not suited to every Championship game. Richard and Michael are too similar, in my view; both players have more footballing attributes than one can rightly demand in a centre-back, but the desire to let the ball bounce and dribble out of defence Beckenbauer-style can be counter-productive, especially given what I perceive to be a weakness in the centre of midfield. I have a feeling we'll need more Scylla than Charybdis vs. the Blades.
     
  36. Simon Osborn

    Simon Osborn Guest

    There's a case for both players to be included on Friday.

    Collins would be good to deal with the physical and aerial game that Sheff Utd will no doubt bring.

    However, if they park the bus and try to catch us on the break, the pace of Mancienne will useful.
     
  37. Kenny-11

    Kenny-11 Guest

    Bearing in mind we turned down this type of agreement when trying to sign players last season, I doubt we would change our mind this.
     
  38. North West Wanderer

    North West Wanderer Just doesn't shut up

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    I'd go with Collins simply because he's more physical. Just for this game mind. Mancienne was struggling a little against Jerome and Bent if I recall.
     
  39. Bertiewolf

    Bertiewolf Has a lot to say

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    Thank you Stuart Hall!
     
  40. sy king

    sy king Guest

    Mick has said on several occasions no one is guaranteed a first team place, including loan players...

    Kenny your spot on about collins, i wouldnt be dissapointed if NC starts on friday
     

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