Why the **** do we do it?

[Bacon Sandwich]

There was a moment in the first half today when we had the ball outside the West Ham box. "Watch," I said to my wife. "We'll work this back to Sa before we put it in the box."
Yep, that's what happened.
A few minutes later we have a throw-in level with the West Ham box. Three passes later and it's back with Jose Sa.
Seriously, why the **** do we do it? Why are we so slow in our build up?
Honestly, I just don't know.
Are we frightened?
Is it the coaching?
Is something in the Portuguese mentality?
Is it Coady? Neves? Moutinho's influence?
Someone tell me, cos I don't have a clue. Although I do know it ain't the way to win football games

 

[Royal wolf]

If you watch Coady closely he’s always screaming for the ball to be played back to him.

 

[MasWolf]

There was a moment in the first half today when we had the ball outside the West Ham box. "Watch," I said to my wife. "We'll work this back to Sa before we put it in the box."
Yep, that's what happened.
A few minutes later we have a throw-in level with the West Ham box. Three passes later and it's back with Jose Sa.
Seriously, why the **** do we do it? Why are we so slow in our build up?
Honestly, I just don't know.
Are we frightened?
Is it the coaching?
Is something in the Portuguese mentality?
Is it Coady? Neves? Moutinho's influence?
Someone tell me, cos I don't have a clue. Although I do know it ain't the way to win football games

This was exactly the same under Nuno. I think this is because the modern game inspired by Man City in recent years puts an emphasis on retaining possession and really only going for goal when you have a definitive opening rather than pot luck chances. Whilst I see how well this can work, it's incredibly frustrating. Trying to walk the ball in the net for every goal is ridiculous and in my mind contributes massively to our lack of goalscoring.

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

It has to be on the orders of Bruno otherwise they wouldn't do it, the amount of times today we passed it back when in a good position was just so Wolves.
Even Watford have scored more than us. Will we break the 30 goal barrier before the season ends ?

 

[Jd132]

I think this is much more important than the formation we play. Most other teams play (relatively hopeful) 50-50 balls to turn defences and get them running towards their own goal. It works! We did it with applomb against Sheff Utd but stopped it as soon as we started.

Not everything has to be short and into feet and if it does, maybe it would be worth buying some players who can actually hold the ball in the pockets. Either be more direct or buy some 10s who can play tiki taka. Doing neither is beyond useless and a big reason why we aren't scoring enough imo.

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

It’s anti-football. Portuguese national team play it and despite one of the most talented squads in the world, they are dreadful to watch.

I’ve had enough of this now. In nearly 50 years as a fan I’ve bought season tickets, merchandise and even donated to the club in the 1980’s and all of that money I have given in support probably comes to £20,000. Enough to pay for Trincao’s wages for a day. Just think about that!

I would quite literally rather be watching Kennedy and Newton in the championship than Trincao and Hwang in the Premier League.

We’re going to **** about playing anti-football for a few more years until someone makes a massive balls up and we
get relegated. What’s the point?

 

[old wittonian]

It has to be on the orders of Bruno otherwise they wouldn't do it, the amount of times today we passed it back when in a good position was just so Wolves.
Even Watford have scored more than us. Will we break the 30 goal barrier before the season ends ?

In the dying seconds we were still passing it back.

 

[Ian C]

It’s not changed since Nuno.

There‘s no point in 100% possession in your own half. It’s as boring as ****.

 

[TheConcourse]

Bruno clearly wants his players to pass the ball forward, so they either aren’t listening or they don’t have the confidence to hurt teams.

Either way this is the real summer of the new cycle. There will be 4-5 out and as many faces coming in. Massive job ahead.

 

[I'm the Wanderer]

I was yelling at my tele in the closing minutes,"are you effing mad?!?!?" While kilman played it to sa who played to coady.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Im ok working it one side of the pitch, passing it backwards then to switch it to the other side to open the play up but to go all the way back to then hoof the ball back down the middle to lose it does baffle me

 

[Jd132]

I was yelling at my tele in the closing minutes,"are you effing mad?!?!?" While kilman played it to sa who played to coady.

I would really like to know the thought process behind not simply putting it in the mixer!

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

I don’t get it. same happened Thursday after a corner . Moutinho could have got a cross in but played it back then we went back to sa .

So from a potential cross / header , or a corner , we went to arsenal winning the ball on our half way line

GET IT IN THE MIXER

 

[Metal Wolf89]

Players not playing one twos, not forming triangles to pass around players, and no confidence in taking players on or playing risky passes in fear of losing the ball..

 

[DasWolf]

Donk does it because he lacks confidence. Even when you can see the forward pass is there, he'll play it back.

Not the only one however.

It happens in the final third, from corners, free kicks. We have this bizarre fascination with defending our opponent's goal for them.

It doesn't create anything. In fact today numerous West Ham chances were created after we passed back from attacking positions, came under pressure from the high press, and lost the ball or were playing around the 18 yard mark.

It's baffling.

 

[Bostin]

I think they do it to try and draw the opposition out, but the trouble is we’re not good enough to play through their press!!!

The goal against Sheffield United where Podence opened up the whole pitch with that turn and pass from deep is what I think they are trying to achieve.

 

[Fifty Niner]

This was exactly the same under Nuno. I think this is because the modern game inspired by Man City in recent years puts an emphasis on retaining possession and really only going for goal when you have a definitive opening rather than pot luck chances. Whilst I see how well this can work, it's incredibly frustrating. Trying to walk the ball in the net for every goal is ridiculous and in my mind contributes massively to our lack of goalscoring.

Difference is Man City and Liverpool attack with pace as a team and have goals scorers all over the pitch. We dont.

 

[Poztin]

Donk received a ball in the box with acres of space back to goal. Instead of turning and getting a shot away he first time passed it straight back out of the box. Today in a nutshell

 

[waveney wolf]

Probably captain Coady yelling at them to pass it to him

 

[Ercall Wolves]

It’s not changed since Nuno.

There‘s no point in 100% possession in your own half. It’s as boring as ****.

Oh behave

 

[Royal wolf]

Players not playing one twos, not forming triangles to pass around players, and no confidence in taking players on or playing risky passes in fear of losing the ball..

This is the issue. Football is such a simple game but when confidence is low it becomes difficult. Pass and move, pass and move. We struggle with the basics at times. Podence is the only real player who looks to do this.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

Bruno clearly wants his players to pass the ball forward, so they either aren’t listening or they don’t have the confidence to hurt teams.

Either way this is the real summer of the new cycle. There will be 4-5 out and as many faces coming in. Massive job ahead.

In the first 5 minutes Hwang had a chance to cross/pass inside , 3 men in the box and he was around 40 yards from the the corner flag. He passed back into our own half.

It was the first time this happened in todays game (with many other examples from many other players following throughout).

Hwang is a new signing that Bruno likes and has never played for Nuno.

 

[Mel Eves on a bike]

I thought what is a bit puzzling alongside this is Lage did that interview with Sky saying how we are trying to play down the middle and not so much with wingbacks getting crosses in. So that’s fine but why completely lose the ability for attacking down the wings by playing Marcel and Hoever. We just didn’t have much of an outlet. It’s not until Podence comes on where we start to have more movement and so start moving them around a bit.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Players not playing one twos, not forming triangles to pass around players, and no confidence in taking players on or playing risky passes in fear of losing the ball..

But we lose the ball a lot anyway.
To me, it’s on Bruno. Same with the lack of goals. It’s practically March and still there little improvement with scoring chances and mostly that’s thanks to Podence and not Bruno.

 

[RMNottm]

The answer is lack of pace

 

[Contrarian]

Im ok working it one side of the pitch, passing it backwards then to switch it to the other side to open the play up but to go all the way back to then hoof the ball back down the middle to lose it does baffle me

Also, if done using one-touch, at speed, can move the opponents defenders out of position. But that's not the way we do it. It's always stop and look around a bit, then roll a slow pass back. Other than Donk who is invariably facing our goal and when he receieves a pass , pings it back instantly to where it came from, before running off somewhere where he can be sure he won't be receiving it again.

 

[Contrarian]

This is the issue. Football is such a simple game but when confidence is low it becomes difficult. Pass and move, pass and move. We struggle with the basics at times. Podence is the only real player who looks to do this.

A bit too much inside our own half at times. Over compensation for the others maybe?

 

[Living at other WWFC]

We are bad at it
It is dull
It is frustrating and counter-productive.
I hate it.
It does not make me feel proud of the team.

 

[Jamwolf]

We must be the only team playing for time when we're a goal down in the 94th minute.

 

[SA Wolf]

It's a combination of tactics, coaching, mentality and confidence. When our wing-backs get forwards there is often no one to pass to so they turn back which inevitably means passes across the back line to the opposite side of the field. Why is there no one to pass to? Because we often play with two defensive midfield players who are behind the wing-backs. We need the attacking midfielder (s) that we have been crying out for, for years.
When the wing-backs get forwards, they can't play a a ball into the box, because again, there is often no one there. Raul has come deep so is behind play and there is no support. Ergo, they play it back. We have been doing this since Jota went. When he and Raul played together, we broke at speed and often there was two players or three players (Raul, Jota and one of the wing-backs) carrying the ball. We've never replaced Jota so again, a lack of presence ahead of the ball.
We've also adopted a safety-first mentality. Rather than take a chance (no risk, no reward), players will play the safe ball rather than one which is more risky, but which may force an opportunity.
Whatever the reasons, as many have said, it's boring, frustrating and while we are in a decent league position, ultimately is unsuccessful as matches against Arsenal and WHU have shown.

 

[Lisas Husband]

This drives me nuts. I do get very shouty.

Also, our passing out from the back from goal kicks. Save time and just let Sa pass it to the opposition.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

People are over thinking this. By far the main reason we go backwards is because the majority of the time that’s where all players bar our line forward are. Won’t change until we drop 5 at the back and sign a forward thinking midfielder.

In Donks case it’s simply because he isn’t very good.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

It's fear of losing the ball, which comes from the coach and his right hand man, Coady. We have a talented squad but are massively impotent and boring as hell to watch because of the way we play. If we play like this till the end of the season I will just pack in going and not renew my ST. Life's too short for this complete *******s

 

[AndyY]

People are over thinking this. By far the main reason we go backwards is because the majority of the time that’s where all players bar our line forward are. Won’t change until we drop 5 at the back and sign a forward thinking midfielder.

In Donks case it’s simply because he isn’t very good.

It’s not about 5 at the back but it is about a midfield which does not provide options for the defence to pass to, does not break up,the opposition play in the midfield and does not pass forward to the strikers.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

It's been very noticeable in the last couple of games how slowly we move the ball compared to our opponents, we give them too much time to set themselves and it makes us easy to defend against

 

[NorthWestWolf]

It's been very noticeable in the last couple of games how slowly we move the ball compared to our opponents, we give them too much time to set themselves and it makes us easy to defend against

Many times yesterday we had a potential for a break with West Ham out of position. But due to our slow build up play they all just trotted back into position without having to break sweat. Madness.

 

[Ian C]

Oh behave

Why so?

We ain't scoring goals playing like that, I always understood that scoring goals won matches, well more goals than the opposition anyway?

We've got pace up top still but we don't exploit it, instead trying to pick our way through a defence that's had time to get back in shape, with some kind of stupid back heel or a cross to nobody.

 

[Contrarian]

It's been very noticeable in the last couple of games how slowly we move the ball compared to our opponents, we give them too much time to set themselves and it makes us easy to defend against

The only part I'd change in that is that it's not just "the last couple" of games. Last 100 or more, mostly. It's become entrenched since the Jota and Doc departures, though there were definitely times even in the seasons before, where we were too slow, safe and cautious, allowing defences to reorganise.

Having said that, this season, there have been times when we've snapped out of it. With mixed results, unfortunately. Part of it might be that when we move the ball quicker, we invariably lose it in the final third. Very noticable how much better Arsenal (and Leicester, too) were than us at quick , precise passing in the danger area. There's were to feet. Ours are weird backheels or overhit or misplaced leaving the reciever no chance. Repeatedly. By now, I've given up and think what you see is what you are going to get and our current players just don't have that quality. Which forces us to slow it down to a pace they are more comfortable at. "But - Podence"... yes, exactly. About 1 in 20 or so of the things he tries actually works. Whatever the number "throw enough mud at a wall and some sticks" is not good enough for top 6. It's got to be "most" of the things they try come off, not one or two per match.

So rather than continually losing the ball, risking getting hit on the break, we slow things down. And our midfield and defence stay deep, also, to avoid getting hit on the break. Think about it. How often do we concede on the break? Hardly ever in 4 years. COmpared to how often we score on the break, which is far, far more. I think we've evolved a style that fits the current players strengths and avoids their weaknesses and the only way out of it is significant new signings.

TBH I often don't understand how we get the results we do! Even that second season when we were 7th, we did not play "good football" most of the time. I've just got used to us playing disjointed, dour football for nearly 4 seasons now, yet somehow scraping enough results to keep ahead of the likes of Southampton, Brighton etc. They must be even more frustrating to watch is all I can add

 

[JOSWolf]

Has to change in the upcoming games and Bruno has to take the handbrake off as if he really thinks we have played well in the last few games then he is sadly mistaken. Playing like we did at Arsenal and West Ham would be unacceptable against Palace at home.

 

[lobodelsur]

But - Podence".. yes, exactly. About 1 in 20 or so of the things he tries actually works. Whatever the number "throw enough mud at a wall and some sticks" is not good enough for top 6. It's got to be "most" of the things they try come off, not one or two per match.

A bit unfair to single out Podence who is currently the only player who looks like he has the imagination and skill to unlock a defence. Hardly his fault if the rest of the team don't see the possibilities that he does. Maybe if we had another 'Podence-like' player we wouldn't be having this debate ?