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Today’s games - 2021-22

Tring Wolf

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How can a VAR official decide whether a defender has deliberately played the ball or not? Are they mind readers?

Fabinho slides in to get the ball and knees it into Benzema’s path. For me that’s a goal.

Completely agree. And the touch before that has also come off a Liverpool player.

The rule can’t be that he didn’t intend to pass it to Benzema. Otherwise, theoretically any misplaced pass back to a keeper intercepted by a striker in an offside position would have to be disallowed as the defender didn’t intend to it.

Both Liverpool challenges were intentional attempts to tackle and win the ball.
 

manchesterwolf17

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Wouldn't surprise me if the VAR was solely focusing on whether Benzema was in line with Van Dijk and completely overlooked the rest.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

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Peter Walton thinks it's simple. No Peter, that's you. Whatever **** up the ref makes he's right.

Nobody thinks he's offside, except he probably is initially, but in the bonkers situation you've produced that probably doesn't count.

Confused, you will be!
 

SingleMalt

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Well... I'll give it a stab. Not that I agree with what I'm about to say.

The ball breaks free off Alisson's knee and both Konate and Fabinho go in for the loose ball. Konate then knocks the ball onto Fabinho's knee and breaks to Benzema. As such, the VAR ref has decided the ball wasn't played deliberately by Fabinho. My argument, if that is the case, is that Konate deliberately plays the ball.
This is how I see it too.
 

Jonzy54

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How can a VAR official decide whether a defender has deliberately played the ball or not? Are they mind readers?

Fabinho slides in to get the ball and knees it into Benzema’s path. For me that’s a goal.
It all hinged on whether it was played by a Liverpool player as opposed to a deflection
I thought it was a legitimate goal
 

sedgwolf1980

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I’m not sure what thread to put it on but that Heineken advert is one of the most horrendous pieces of television I have ever seen in my entire life.
 

SingleMalt

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Completely agree. And the touch before that has also come off a Liverpool player.

The rule can’t be that he didn’t intend to pass it to Benzema. Otherwise, theoretically any misplaced pass back to a keeper intercepted by a striker in an offside position would have to be disallowed as the defender didn’t intend to it.

Both Liverpool challenges were intentional attempts to tackle and win the ball.
It’s not that he didn’t intend to play the ball to Benzema, but that he didn’t intend to play the ball at all.

I don’t agree with this interpretation and I think that the rule is nonsense tbh.
 

Fenrir_

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Well... I'll give it a stab. Not that I agree with what I'm about to say.

The ball breaks free off Alisson's knee and both Konate and Fabinho go in for the loose ball. Konate then knocks the ball onto Fabinho's knee and it breaks to Benzema. As such, the VAR ref has decided the ball wasn't played deliberately by Fabinho. My argument, if that is the case, is that Konate deliberately plays the ball.
The thing is, who was the last Real player to touch the ball? Benzema! So Benzema has his pass intercepted and the ball comes back to him via a few Liverpool deflections, and he's given offside!!
 

Contrarian

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What and.when has deliberate ever ever been used it's a clear goal ?

Yes, I didn't used to matter whether deliberate or not. Changing that has added yet more subjectivity, when a few years ago, definitely recall senior refs talking about the need to remove subjectivity from decision making. Hence the incessant hand ball changes.
 

Wonder Boyo

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It all hinged on whether it was played by a Liverpool player as opposed to a deflection
I thought it was a legitimate goal
To be fair i thought Peter Walton was helpful for once. He said it had to be an intentional pass from the Liverpool player for it not to be offside. It was obviously the Liverpool player who played the ball but it wasn't intentional, unless he wanted to pass it to a Real Madrid player in a goalscoring position.
 

JadeWolf

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It’s not that he didn’t intend to play the ball to Benzema, but that he didn’t intend to play the ball at all.

I don’t agree with this interpretation and I think that the rule is nonsense tbh.
So if he’s not trying to play the ball, what is he trying to do when he’s sliding about in his own box?
 

SingYourHeartsOut

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It’s not that he didn’t intend to play the ball to Benzema, but that he didn’t intend to play the ball at all.

I don’t agree with this interpretation and I think that the rule is nonsense tbh.
As Shankly might not have said, 'if a defender isn't intending to play the ball what's he doing on the pitch'.
 

SingleMalt

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So if he’s not trying to play the ball, what is he trying to do when he’s sliding about in his own box?
We’ll I suppose the idea is that he’s trying to get to the ball when the attacker has knocked it onto him.

I do wish we could go back to the old offside rule before all this nonsense was tagged onto it.
 

Spitfire

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To be fair i thought Peter Walton was helpful for once. He said it had to be an intentional pass from the Liverpool player for it not to be offside. It was obviously the Liverpool player who played the ball but it wasn't intentional, unless he wanted to pass it to a Real Madrid player in a goalscoring position.
But he went to intentionally play the ball and did so. Irrelevant whether he meant to play it to Benzema or not.
Not arguing with you, just the incompetent ******s who have made the laws ridiculously complicated. :triumph:
 

JadeWolf

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We’ll I suppose the idea is that he’s trying to get to the ball when the attacker has knocked it onto him.

I do wish we could go back to the old offside rule before all this nonsense was tagged onto it.
So he is trying to play the ball then, it’s just bad luck that it rolls straight to Benzema.

Not having a go at you btw, just think it’s such a strange explanation.
 

Fenrir_

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To be fair i thought Peter Walton was helpful for once. He said it had to be an intentional pass from the Liverpool player for it not to be offside. It was obviously the Liverpool player who played the ball but it wasn't intentional, unless he wanted to pass it to a Real Madrid player in a goalscoring position.
But... if it was played back by the Liverpool player then Benzema was offside from his own pass, because he was the last Madrid player to touch it - so how can he be offside from his own pass?
 

Wonder Boyo

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But he went to intentionally play the ball and did so. Irrelevant whether he meant to play it to Benzema or not.
Not arguing with you, just the incompetent ******s who have made the laws ridiculously complicated. :triumph:
I agree they are really complicated. He did go to play the ball but it came off his knee and that wasn't the ball he intended. I mean it's ridiculous that it's that complicated and I don't really disagree with you.
 

Contrarian

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We’ll I suppose the idea is that he’s trying to get to the ball when the attacker has knocked it onto him.

I do wish we could go back to the old offside rule before all this nonsense was tagged onto it.

Same for the hand ball rule.
 

SingleMalt

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So he is trying to play the ball then, it’s just bad luck that it rolls straight to Benzema.

Not having a go at you btw, just think it’s such a strange explanation.
I agree with you it doesn’t make any sense but it appears to be the argument that’s being made.
 

Wonder Boyo

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But... if it was played back by the Liverpool player then Benzema was offside from his own pass, because he was the last Madrid player to touch it - so how can he be offside from his own pass?
I think because another player played the ball after the Benzema pass, it just happened to be an unintentional pass! I need a lie down. Nurse! Nurse!
 

Tring Wolf

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The explanation is in this tweet, have a read. I think the officials actually got it right.


Interesting. I always thought the deflection rule was based on if an attacker was passing it through and it unwittingly hit a defender on the way through, it wouldn’t change the offside.

I’d need to see it again but I thought Konate is trying to clear the ball forward (deliberately) and the ball deflects off Fabinho who is sliding in to tackle (deliberately). I didn’t think a Madrid player touched it between Benzema and…er…Benzema.
 

SingleMalt

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But... if it was played back by the Liverpool player then Benzema was offside from his own pass, because he was the last Madrid player to touch it - so how can he be offside from his own pass?
I’ve not seen a replay (only adverts on here during half time). Did the other Madrid player not get a touch of the ball?
 
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