Time for refs to be relieved of timekeeping duties?!!!

[WWFC4EVA]

With all the changes that have taken place in the game in recent times, I'm frankly amazed that the on field referee still determines the time added on at the end of each half.
Not that I'm suggesting it would've made a blind bit of difference today but the time added on, certainly in the second-half, wasn't relative to the time lost in the game, due to substitutions, stoppages, timewasting etc.
Despite acknowledging, on numerous occasions of Norwich timewasting and doing so by booking at least one, if not more of their players for doing so, the referee then seemed to fail to add a great deal on, to account for this.
It's not the first time it's happened at Molineux this season either, that game against Brentford was something else!
Surely a referees job would be made somewhat easier, if the timekeeping was controlled by an off field official, much like I believe to be the case in Rugby.
Not only can it be bloody frustrating to watch the ridiculous gamesmanship and yes, I know our boys aren't without sin, it's also robbing the fans of the very product they pay pretty handsomely for.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

One of the few highlights for me was Neves running up to the ref and shoving 4 fingers (sadly all on one hand) up. I mean, how many subs? going mad at their CH for pretending to have cramp (after stopping for lace tying and pretending to take a free kick only to then run off and leave it for the keeper), booking the LB. I was thinking 6 or 7. Not sure we'd have scored yet if we were still playing though.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

You aren’t allowed to moan about that on here

 

[WWFC4EVA]

You aren’t allowed to moan about that on here

Oh, sorry, didn't realise! Lol

 

[RMNottm]

Would like to see play forty each way and stop clock when ball goes dead, game ends when time up and ball goes dead. More respect for ref and var decisions explained to crowd, drinking allowed in the ground.

We could also allow a few more robust challenges.

The flight of the ball has been made more random by the changes to design abd weight- we could tweak the shape.

The man u middlesborough game shows there is mileage in allowing more handling- we have seen enough let go!

Finally a few more players would even things up

 

[WWFC4EVA]

Would like to see play forty each way and stop clock when ball goes dead, game ends when time up and ball goes dead. More respect for ref and var decisions explained to crowd, drinking allowed in the ground.

We could also allow a few more robust challenges.

The flight of the ball has been made more random by the changes to design abd weight- we could tweak the shape.

The man u middlesborough game shows there is mileage in allowing more handling- we have seen enough let go!

Finally a few more players would even things up

Sarcasm at its finest! Lol

 

[Netherton Wolf]

I always time the extra time, today he played 3mins 50seconds!!!

 

[Wolf of Wall Heath]

That ref was an absolute drip. We’ve had our share of bad refs but he was the weakest I think I’ve seen at our place.

 

[Contrarian]

Also, I think it's time we stopped this ordinary time + injury time nonsense. Just have a stopwatch and stop the clock every time there is a stoppage. Play 45 minutes actual time. Same principle as just about every other sport does. Again, I hate going down the conspiracy route, but the fact that *nobody* knows when the match is really going to end works in favour of allowing a bias to a favoured club.

Probably 40 minutes each half of "in play" football would be the ideal and easy to manage, no new technology needed.

 

[WWFC4EVA]

I always time the extra time, today he played 3mins 50seconds!!!

I was genuinely expecting 6 or 7 minutes, on the basis that there were 6 substitutions, so by my reckoning that's 3 minutes alone. He therefore added a mere 1 minute for all the timewasting he'd clearly acknowledged throughout the second-half. Baffling!
That aside, I thought his all-round performance was woeful!

 

[Parkfieldswolf]

Really good point. With so much at stake in the games these days why do we have to rely some twerp in black to determine added time? VAR can pinpoint an arm hair but we can’t sort out time added on accurately? Bizarre

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Can we really moan at this with some of our antics this year? Come off it

 

[manchesterwolf17]

One of my pet hates in football - When one side is hugely ahead, lets say 5-0 up. So as an act of sympathy, despite injuries, subs, goal celebrations etc - The ref adds 1 or 2 minutes on at the end.

Just play the actual amount. Why does it matter? Another could be scored during that justified time which impacts the course of a league position. I look at Man City being 6-1 up against Villa in 2019/20 as an example - Zero minutes added. Well why?

Lets say a few months down the line, there's a goals difference required toward the title or someone staying up, suddenly that becomes relevant.

It's such a simple thing to keep attention to. Really annoys me.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

As the law currently stands, the referee is the sole timekeeper. I agree that sometimes the time added on does cause problems, either too much or too little depending on which perspective it's being looked at from. But my concern is if it taken out of the referees jurisdiction, then who monitors the time. The fourth official? That would be the logical solution, but would lead to the same accusations made against the VAR referees.

I don't think there is an easy answer as it has been a problem for years, perhaps if the referee just added on the correct amount of time taken for injuries, substitutions and blatant time wasting then it would help.

I shan't hold my breath....

 

[WWFC4EVA]

Can we really moan at this with some of our antics this year? Come off it

We are indeed guilty of it, as acknowledged in my original post, however, I feel that if more accurate timekeeping was in place, that took all of the ridiculous gamesmanship into account, you'd soon see it reduced, if not eradicated from the game.
Take away the potential reward and increase the possible jeopardy and it would soon stop it being coached into players!
Two of our worst games this season for it, as I recall, were the Liverpool game and Brentford away. I seem to remember pretty sizeable chunks of added time at the end of each game, due presumably to our somewhat underhanded attempts to see those games out and the official on the day acknowledging the fact. It cost us a point in the Liverpool game and could've cost us a couple at Brentford.
There has been at least one other game but I'm unable to remember which, where we've blatantly time wasted, only for us to concede late within the period of added time allowed for it.
I'm not bemoaning our luck at having said added time go against us on these occasions, it's the right way to go about it, in my opinion...but only if it's consistent throughout all games.
The point made in a post above is a good one also, didn't Man City pip Man Utd to the league title on goal difference in 2012?
I'm sure teams have probably been relegated due to similar. Small differences over a season, that could make a huge difference to things.....though I am aware that Man Utd have never gone without their fair share of added time over the years! Lol

 

[IrchyWolf]

Also, I think it's time we stopped this ordinary time + injury time nonsense. Just have a stopwatch and stop the clock every time there is a stoppage. Play 45 minutes actual time. Same principle as just about every other sport does. Again, I hate going down the conspiracy route, but the fact that *nobody* knows when the match is really going to end works in favour of allowing a bias to a favoured club.

Probably 40 minutes each half of "in play" football would be the ideal and easy to manage, no new technology needed.

I'd love to see the 'chess-clock' approach being introduced but I remember seeing some sports science document a few years back which actually investigated this and in a 45 minute half it actually averaged out at something like 35* minutes of the ball actually being in play in the Premier League.

*Can't remember the exact figure but it was lower than I'd previously imagined.

 

[epic]

I always time the extra time, today he played 3mins 50seconds!!!

Given that he booked the keeper for wasting time in those 3mins 50seconds and even then didn't add any more on !!

 

[Archiwolf]

The average time the ball is in play is generally at our around 60 minutes per match. Would love to know what that figure was for the Brentford game. I thought the ref was weak in response to Norwich today and the additional time allowed was farcical. I don't think it changes the result though, as we were poor.

We keep getting the 'best League in the world' nonsense ranmmed down or throats by the media, but in reality the way most middle to lower teams operate in this league is with s*** house cynical tactics. Norwich are a prime example. Constantly yo yo'ing playing decent football and then this year there way to break the cycle is to become the East Coast Burnley.

We pay a premium to watch this stuff and it seems to be lost in those that run the game that it exists for our entertainment.

 

[PumpKing]

With all the changes that have taken place in the game in recent times, I'm frankly amazed that the on field referee still determines the time added on at the end of each half.
Not that I'm suggesting it would've made a blind bit of difference today but the time added on, certainly in the second-half, wasn't relative to the time lost in the game, due to substitutions, stoppages, timewasting etc.
Despite acknowledging, on numerous occasions of Norwich timewasting and doing so by booking at least one, if not more of their players for doing so, the referee then seemed to fail to add a great deal on, to account for this.
It's not the first time it's happened at Molineux this season either, that game against Brentford was something else!
Surely a referees job would be made somewhat easier, if the timekeeping was controlled by an off field official, much like I believe to be the case in Rugby.
Not only can it be bloody frustrating to watch the ridiculous gamesmanship and yes, I know our boys aren't without sin, it's also robbing the fans of the very product they pay pretty handsomely for.

To have the game timing taken out of the refs responsibility is something that should have been done years ago.
Refs could then concentrate more on what is actually happening in the game.
To be fair to refs these days, the game has moved on, and with so much more scurrilous player activity going on, they do need to focus more, and have eyes in the back of their heads.

While we’re on about a rule change subject, why not have four linesman, each one running their half of the line on their side. That is of course if it’s too much for one the run the whole length in his own.
How a linesman can make any valuable contribution to a ruling for something that’s happened on the far side of his end of the pitch is ridiculous in my view.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I'd love to see the 'chess-clock' approach being introduced but I remember seeing some sports science document a few years back which actually investigated this and in a 45 minute half it actually averaged out at something like 35* minutes of the ball actually being in play in the Premier League.

*Can't remember the exact figure but it was lower than I'd previously imagined.

Chess clock is a great idea, managers on the halfway line banging a switch every time possession changes. 30 minutes with the ball for each team, that would sort Man City out, let them tap it about for 30 minutes and then we'd get 30 minutes to attack where they wouldn't be able to have the ball.

 

[Hawkguy]

This is the only sport where the coaches, pollsters, and viewers don't know what the time means. I'm not sure if it's supposed to add drama or what but it's dumb.

Some games will run 2-3 minutes longer than stoppage time. Others will run shorter. The first half is usually massively undercut It pretty much never makes sense. And in reality it's completely unfair.

Games should have an official time keeper. Whether just add time or stop time when the ball isn't in play, I don't care. It would probably cut out quite a few unsportsmanlike penalties too.

If I was a ref, I would warn time wasting once and then it would be a card each and every time. For any infraction. I hate how the refs allow and benefit time wasting. It's second worst to diving.

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

Also, I think it's time we stopped this ordinary time + injury time nonsense. Just have a stopwatch and stop the clock every time there is a stoppage. Play 45 minutes actual time. Same principle as just about every other sport does. Again, I hate going down the conspiracy route, but the fact that *nobody* knows when the match is really going to end works in favour of allowing a bias to a favoured club.

Probably 40 minutes each half of "in play" football would be the ideal and easy to manage, no new technology needed.

With all the technology available today the stopwatch idea is a good one within reason. I think for professional games there should be a minimum of 45 minutes elapsed and a minimum of 35 minutes inplay if that is the historical average for professional games.

As an example the Brentford game was only 51 minutes ball in play overall. So the ref That would have needed to added 19 minutes in play on top of the 5 minutes the ref allowed. An extra 19 minutes would have been about right for the Bretford game but the point is it would kill most of the unnecessary timekeeping as it would be pointless apart from disrupting the flow of the game.

It would also mean that biased "fergie time" where more additional time is always given to the top 6 when they need a goal would be ended. The refs and the FA actually enjoy the ability to introduce bias though so it will be an uphill battle.

 

[JadeWolf]

Maybe @Jonzy54 can help me out but what does the 4th official actually do? I know he holds the board up for added time and subs, but apart from that? Is there not a way he could be in charge of added time? He could have a watch with him which he pauses every time there’s a longer than normal stoppage (injuries, var, players walking off when subbed instead of running, stuff like that) then say it gets to 45 minutes on the main clock but his watch says 36, you add 9 minutes on. Am I missing anything or is it as simple as that?

 

[Ercall Wolves]

I always time the extra time, today he played 3mins 50seconds!!!

I’m the same as soon as the board goes up I start the stopwatch on my phone and yes I commented at the final whistle he blew after 3 mins 50 seconds when it should have been a MINIMUM of 4 mins

 

[jackdusty]

To have the game timing taken out of the refs responsibility is something that should have been done years ago.
Refs could then concentrate more on what is actually happening in the game.
To be fair to refs these days, the game has moved on, and with so much more scurrilous player activity going on, they do need to focus more, and have eyes in the back of their heads.

While we’re on about a rule change subject, why not have four linesman, each one running their half of the line on their side. That is of course if it’s too much for one the run the whole length in his own.
How a linesman can make any valuable contribution to a ruling for something that’s happened on the far side of his end of the pitch is ridiculous in my view.

Which one flags for offside, or do both have too for it to be called by the Ref ?

 

[Jonzy54]

Maybe @Jonzy54 can help me out but what does the 4th official actually do? I know he holds the board up for added time and subs, but apart from that? Is there not a way he could be in charge of added time? He could have a watch with him which he pauses every time there’s a longer than normal stoppage (injuries, var, players walking off when subbed instead of running, stuff like that) then say it gets to 45 minutes on the main clock but his watch says 36, you add 9 minutes on. Am I missing anything or is it as simple as that?

It might work if the referee indicated to stop his watch which could be conveyed .How it usually works is that the Referee has 2watches -one just runs for the 45 minutes and the other he stops for stoppages and one of the AR’s does the same when he indicates for him to do so .The Referee then looks at the respective AR’s on 45/90 minutes who indicate how many minutes by signalling down the side of their shorts which is then conveyed to the 4th official .Obviously at the top level ,with the advent of the mic such information can be conveyed verbally .I would prefer the time keeping to remain with the Referee because he can judge the flow of the game .Much the same as VAR ,decision making should remain on the pitch and not pitch side or indeed 100’s of miles away

 

[glorybox]

It’s a very valid point that we pay a lot of money to watch football and so an average of 2/3 of it being actual action is very poor.