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The happy days are here again, hopefully no more repeated arguments, transfer thread

VancouverWolf

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But all you are saying is that we strengthened and that is proved by the fact that they bought players. You are failing to assess whether on balance, with departing players, we were strengthened overall.
If you read the appropriate posts that you are reacting to, you see that what you post wasn’t germane to what you post here.
Therefore, I’m not failing at all.
 

Evthewolf

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Has the model always been sell to buy though? On the evidence I can see it’s a resounding no. Look at all the fantastic talent, Fosun have brought to the club. Apart from Jota, who’s fee was pretty much wiped out against Fabio, who else have we sold for decent money to offset against the money spent?

Next best is Doc and Rui and that wasn’t ‘big’ money. I have noticed that we generally tend to hang on to our assets. If Fosun have genuinely always had this policy, it begs the question, why didn’t we sell, Raul, Traore and Neves 3 years ago?

I am not saying we should have done. Quite the opposite in fact. I would have been distraught at the prospect of that happening and for the critics of Fosun. If they didn’t care/were in it for the name/etc,etc. Then why didn’t they insist these players were all sold and replaced with budget buys?
 

VancouverWolf

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Its not strengthening the side when you sell proven good players and replace them with inferior!
You do realize that nobody knew how good the new players would be?
Its a lousy thing to condemn the Wolves mgt. for transfers in hindsight……..they didn’t have that luxury when they signed some players.
All transfers are a gamble.
 

Bill McCai

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Well you derisk the 'gamble' by signing players who you feel are of a certain quality and can fit into your team. Look at somebody like Luis Diaz (or even Jota) for Liverpool. Both hit the ground running and are worth far more than they paid. On the other hand you look at the money Man United have 'burned through' on players who are not a good fit. However to derisk successfully you need a coherent approach to the transfer market. I'm not sure we have that.
 

CologneWolf

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Well you derisk the 'gamble' by signing players who you feel are of a certain quality and can fit into your team. Look at somebody like Luis Diaz (or even Jota) for Liverpool. Both hit the ground running and are worth far more than they paid. On the other hand you look at the money Man United have 'burned through' on players who are not a good fit. However to derisk successfully you need a coherent approach to the transfer market. I'm not sure we have that.
It’s quite possible we do not have that at the moment but even minimising the risk does not equate to any certainty that a transfer will work out. I’m sure there have been many examples of well thought-out transfers from highly respected clubs in the transfer market that didn’t translate into success for whatever reason.

For arguments sake let’s say we keep Neves, remarkably strengthen both CM and CB, and get in a proven CF to compete with Raul and Fabio. Everyone is gonna be giving it the biggun, look how fantastically well Wolves have done in the transfer window. A successful window one might say.

But what happens if it does not translate to on field success and there is injuries or the players don’t settle or can’t cope with the rigours of PL football?

Even though we all thought and agreed Fosun did a great job getting in the right players, In hindsight was the window still a success?

We can only know after the fact. No club goes in with the intention of of wanting to make poor transfers, it just turns out that way.
 

Chisels_n_ommers

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Well you derisk the 'gamble' by signing players who you feel are of a certain quality and can fit into your team. Look at somebody like Luis Diaz (or even Jota) for Liverpool. Both hit the ground running and are worth far more than they paid. On the other hand you look at the money Man United have 'burned through' on players who are not a good fit. However to derisk successfully you need a coherent approach to the transfer market. I'm not sure we have that.
You can't have a coherent approach to the transfer market if you "Sell to Buy" because you're always relying on the sell aspect of the equation.
And when that sell aspect happens to be to clubs like Barcelona or Man Utd (who are for varying reasons unreliable to say the least) then you're stuffed
 

Fenrir_

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I thought Neto and Jordao cost around £18 million combined.
£16m for Neto and £8m for Jordao were the reported figures, though it's kind of perceived that that was more for FFP purposes and of the £24m for the two it was a bigger chunk on Neto and a smaller one on Jordao. Neto had played about 107 minutes of professional football though, so while it's worked out wonderfully for us with him, it could easily be argued that we overpaid at the time (but this is the whole thing now with paying for potential)

I mean, comparing Neto to Cutrone, we spent £16m on each player in the same window, got them both from Serie A, one had two full seasons at AC Milan under his belt including one where he'd scored double figures and had a full international cap for Italy, the other had played 55 minutes across five sub appearances in his two seasons at Lazio. So basing it on what we actually bought at the time, if we overpaid on anyone it was Neto! I think when you look at it now, we could have spent the whole £24m on Neto and not too many would be arguing with what we got

It is what it is with transfers, not all of them will work out, some will end up being a waste and some will end up being a bargain with most falling somewhere in between. Our hit rate under Fosun is pretty good though, far more successes than failures and I can't think of any really that we've massively overpaid on which comes back to the crux of it where Shi won't pay more than he thinks a player is worth to us


(The outlier is Silva but if Silva was to play regularly and bang in ten goals next season he's suddenly a £50m+ target for teams so then was it an overpayment? Or did we get what we paid for and it was just a gamble that he'd fulfil his potential?)
 
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SquaddieWolf

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Mods is this a forum or a one sided view forum . Disappointed as looked at this and another site for years but really thought a forum you get a chance to post . Maybe you our that in the small print before people commit to the site .
I had the same frustrations when I joined I'd write a post when something had happened and by the time it was on it was irrelevant lol, don't worry tho it doesn't last long soon your posts will appear immediately.
 

Eastyorksyeltz

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I had the same frustrations when I joined I'd write a post when something had happened and by the time it was on it was irrelevant lol, don't worry tho it doesn't last long soon your posts will appear immediately.
Probably the best time to be in Pre-mod, because literally nothing is happening and the current arguments are so old they will be none the worse for the wait.
 

old wittonian

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£16m for Neto and £8m for Jordao were the reported figures, though it's kind of perceived that that was more for FFP purposes and of the £24m for the two it was a bigger chunk on Neto and a smaller one on Jordao. Neto had played about 107 minutes of professional football though, so while it's worked out wonderfully for us with him, it could easily be argued that we overpaid at the time (but this is the whole thing now with paying for potential)

I mean, comparing Neto to Cutrone, we spent £16m on each player in the same window, got them both from Serie A, one had two full seasons at AC Milan under his belt including one where he'd scored double figures and had a full international cap for Italy, the other had played 55 minutes across five sub appearances in his two seasons at Lazio. So basing it on what we actually bought at the time, if we overpaid on anyone it was Neto! I think when you look at it now, we could have spent the whole £24m on Neto and not too many would be arguing with what we got

It is what it is with transfers, not all of them will work out, some will end up being a waste and some will end up being a bargain with most falling somewhere in between. Our hit rate under Fosun is pretty good though, far more successes than failures and I can't think of any really that we've massively overpaid on which comes back to the crux of it where Shi won't pay more than he thinks a player is worth to us


(The outlier is Silva but if Silva was to play regularly and bang in ten goals next season he's suddenly a £50m+ target for teams so then was it an overpayment? Or did we get what we paid for and it was just a gamble that he'd fulfil his potential?)

This was widely reported:

Wolves have completed the signing of Portuguese duo Pedro Neto, 19, and Bruno Jordao, 20, from Lazio for a fee in the region of £18million.
Not £24 million.
 

The Wolf Of Wombourne

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You do realize that nobody knew how good the new players would be?
Its a lousy thing to condemn the Wolves mgt. for transfers in hindsight……..they didn’t have that luxury when they signed some players.
All transfers are a gamble.
Vancouver are you honestly saying that the management team should take no responsibility or criticism for sanctioning poor transfers.

They scout these players and spend a lot of money on analysis and get paid handsomely to do so, you think I wouldn’t get criticised if I made **** decisions in my job?
 

Evthewolf

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A lot of the frustration seems to stem from the fact that we had a great chance to qualify for the Europa and badly blew it and I get that.

The general consensus seems to be that if we had brought in a couple of players, a Europa place would have been guaranteed. Well, you can never say that in football.

I am more than prepared to trust Fosun based on what they have done so far and I try to look at a scenario from all angles to try and get a logical and balanced view.

For what they are worth, here are my views on why we didn’t strengthen in January. Of course, just my opinion and speculation.

My view is, they hadn’t planned to do this at the start of the season. The team overachieved in terms of reality and due to other teams underachieving, Wolves then found themselves in an unexpected position.

The management were then faced with a dilemma. Risk all and get 2 players in, at all costs or stick with the players that got us into that position. Imo, the stick outweighed the twist so we now have to look at the hypothetical scenarios that could have arisen.

If we had gone all out on 2 players and put them straight into the first 11. They may have taken time to adjust or not fitted into our system. We would have had to pay big money and big wages to tempt them. Bruno doesn’t rotate much so 2 players to be dropped (depending on positions supposedly strengthened) could have been Raul, Coady or Mouts. How would that have gone down in the dressing room and affected things? All that to think about and no guarantee it improves results.

The flip side is we did that and just managed to scrape into the Europa but the general opinion was that one of the 2, wasn’t a massive upgrade. We would then have been left probably still needing to add the same amount of players that we are looking for now because we would have needed more strength and quality to cope with extra games but we’d have spent the money that was intended for this transfer window.

Of course, there is the argument that if we had qualified for the Europa, it would have increased revenue and perhaps help to attract bigger names. All swings and roundabouts as always and yes, we all want Wolves to have the best 25 players in the world but we have to be realistic.

You could spend £200,000,000 in this window with no guarantee of finishing in the top half of the table. That’s the reality of where football is nowadays. Unless the owners have money to burn, you have to accept where you are.

The only thing I hope for, is that we can sustain our stability and play more attractive football and recapture that bit of magic and excitement that we had under Nuno in those first 3 seasons.
 

The Wolf Of Wombourne

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A lot of the frustration seems to stem from the fact that we had a great chance to qualify for the Europa and badly blew it and I get that.

The general consensus seems to be that if we had brought in a couple of players, a Europa place would have been guaranteed. Well, you can never say that in football.

I am more than prepared to trust Fosun based on what they have done so far and I try to look at a scenario from all angles to try and get a logical and balanced view.

For what they are worth, here are my views on why we didn’t strengthen in January. Of course, just my opinion and speculation.

My view is, they hadn’t planned to do this at the start of the season. The team overachieved in terms of reality and due to other teams underachieving, Wolves then found themselves in an unexpected position.

The management were then faced with a dilemma. Risk all and get 2 players in, at all costs or stick with the players that got us into that position. Imo, the stick outweighed the twist so we now have to look at the hypothetical scenarios that could have arisen.

If we had gone all out on 2 players and put them straight into the first 11. They may have taken time to adjust or not fitted into our system. We would have had to pay big money and big wages to tempt them. Bruno doesn’t rotate much so 2 players to be dropped (depending on positions supposedly strengthened) could have been Raul, Coady or Mouts. How would that have gone down in the dressing room and affected things? All that to think about and no guarantee it improves results.

The flip side is we did that and just managed to scrape into the Europa but the general opinion was that one of the 2, wasn’t a massive upgrade. We would then have been left probably still needing to add the same amount of players that we are looking for now because we would have needed more strength and quality to cope with extra games but we’d have spent the money that was intended for this transfer window.

Of course, there is the argument that if we had qualified for the Europa, it would have increased revenue and perhaps help to attract bigger names. All swings and roundabouts as always and yes, we all want Wolves to have the best 25 players in the world but we have to be realistic.

You could spend £200,000,000 in this window with no guarantee of finishing in the top half of the table. That’s the reality of where football is nowadays. Unless the owners have money to burn, you have to accept where you are.

The only thing I hope for, is that we can sustain our stability and play more attractive football and recapture that bit of magic and excitement that we had under Nuno in those first 3 seasons.
So what about actively weakening the squad by loaning out Adama on the worlds ****test deal? That for me was criminal and undermined the whole season.
 

Mugwump

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I still think there are certain players that we have targeted that we could have got but didnt invest in them. Dias is probably the obvious one, it was clear he was going to top yet even being owned by an investment company, we didnt put our money where our mouth was. Nunes is the same, so was Botman.
 

Evthewolf

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So what about actively weakening the squad by loaning out Adama on the worlds ****test deal? That for me was criminal and undermined the whole season.
Again, we can only speculate because we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. Perhaps Bruno (and more so Adama) didn’t see his future at Wolves and if the loan had worked out, we probably wouldn’t be questioning it now.

I love Adama but there are plenty on both sides of the fence. If we had said “no, you are not going to Barcelona”, do you think he’d have put his heart and soul into remaining at Wolves? I am not saying he wouldn’t have, just interested what you think,
 

cannockwolves

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So what about actively weakening the squad by loaning out Adama on the worlds ****test deal? That for me was criminal and undermined the whole season.

It's was just a gamble that didn't come off.

Adama really wanted to go to Barcelona (who wouldn't!) and he was not signing a new deal here. If we had got a suitable off from someone other than Barcelona what makes you think Adama would have accepted it? As far as I am aware we didn't get an offer so in the light of the options available played the percentages - if he had performed well and we had got that £30m everyone wins.

OK so it doesn't look like it's going to work out as planned, but Adama may well show us some good will on either a new contract extension or only accepting a financial offer acceptable to us.

On the outside its looks a poor deal, but I just think they were trying to be creative. Doesn't look to have worked, but I give them credit for trying.
 

The Wolf Of Wombourne

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Again, we can only speculate because we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. Perhaps Bruno (and more so Adama) didn’t see his future at Wolves and if the loan had worked out, we probably wouldn’t be questioning it now.

I love Adama but there are plenty on both sides of the fence. If we had said “no, you are not going to Barcelona”, do you think he’d have put his heart and soul into remaining at Wolves? I am not saying he wouldn’t have, just interested what you think,
It's was just a gamble that didn't come off.

Adama really wanted to go to Barcelona (who wouldn't!) and he was not signing a new deal here. If we had got a suitable off from someone other than Barcelona what makes you think Adama would have accepted it? As far as I am aware we didn't get an offer so in the light of the options available played the percentages - if he had performed well and we had got that £30m everyone wins.

OK so it doesn't look like it's going to work out as planned, but Adama may well show us some good will on either a new contract extension or only accepting a financial offer acceptable to us.

On the outside its looks a poor deal, but I just think they were trying to be creative. Doesn't look to have worked, but I give them credit for trying.
Guys respectfully Barca were never going to stump that money up, we all knew that and loads said it at the time, they just didn’t have the money and we knew that and did the deal anyway, we should have sold him elsewhere if we were going to let him go and reinvested in the squad, that deal was just inexcusably insane.

I don’t have an issue with him wanting to go and us letting him go but we should have at least got some cash out of it.
 

Mugwump

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Guys respectfully Barca were never going to stump that money up, we all knew that and loads said it at the time, they just didn’t have the money and we knew that and did the deal anyway, we should have sold him elsewhere if we were going to let him go and reinvested in the squad, that deal was just inexcusably insane.

I don’t have an issue with him wanting to go and us letting him go but we should have at least got some cash out of it.

We did it to put him in the shop window because we thought he would do a lot better than he did.
 

Evthewolf

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Guys respectfully Barca were never going to stump that money up, we all knew that and loads said it at the time, they just didn’t have the money and we knew that and did the deal anyway, we should have sold him elsewhere if we were going to let him go and reinvested in the squad, that deal was just inexcusably insane.

I don’t have an issue with him wanting to go and us letting him go but we should have at least got some cash out of it.
Perhaps not but at that time, we were still hopeful (or at least hadn’t decided) if Trincao was an option. Okay that didn’t work out but if it had, Adama may have been a bargaining proposition.
 

Eastyorksyeltz

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A lot of the frustration seems to stem from the fact that we had a great chance to qualify for the Europa and badly blew it and I get that.

The general consensus seems to be that if we had brought in a couple of players, a Europa place would have been guaranteed. Well, you can never say that in football.

I am more than prepared to trust Fosun based on what they have done so far and I try to look at a scenario from all angles to try and get a logical and balanced view.

For what they are worth, here are my views on why we didn’t strengthen in January. Of course, just my opinion and speculation.

My view is, they hadn’t planned to do this at the start of the season. The team overachieved in terms of reality and due to other teams underachieving, Wolves then found themselves in an unexpected position.

The management were then faced with a dilemma. Risk all and get 2 players in, at all costs or stick with the players that got us into that position. Imo, the stick outweighed the twist so we now have to look at the hypothetical scenarios that could have arisen.

If we had gone all out on 2 players and put them straight into the first 11. They may have taken time to adjust or not fitted into our system. We would have had to pay big money and big wages to tempt them. Bruno doesn’t rotate much so 2 players to be dropped (depending on positions supposedly strengthened) could have been Raul, Coady or Mouts. How would that have gone down in the dressing room and affected things? All that to think about and no guarantee it improves results.

The flip side is we did that and just managed to scrape into the Europa but the general opinion was that one of the 2, wasn’t a massive upgrade. We would then have been left probably still needing to add the same amount of players that we are looking for now because we would have needed more strength and quality to cope with extra games but we’d have spent the money that was intended for this transfer window.

Of course, there is the argument that if we had qualified for the Europa, it would have increased revenue and perhaps help to attract bigger names. All swings and roundabouts as always and yes, we all want Wolves to have the best 25 players in the world but we have to be realistic.

You could spend £200,000,000 in this window with no guarantee of finishing in the top half of the table. That’s the reality of where football is nowadays. Unless the owners have money to burn, you have to accept where you are.

The only thing I hope for, is that we can sustain our stability and play more attractive football and recapture that bit of magic and excitement that we had under Nuno in those first 3 seasons.
Excellent and we'll thought out post. Good to read something that tries to find realistic motivation behind what we can see from the outside, rather than creating fanciful conspiracy theories and demanding immediate knee-jerk reaction to them.
 

The Wolf Of Wombourne

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We did it to put him in the shop window because we thought he would do a lot better than he did.
But with 1 year left on his contract no matter how well he did it wasn’t going to increase his value. January was the time to sell.
Perhaps not but at that time, we were still hopeful (or at least hadn’t decided) if Trincao was an option. Okay that didn’t work out but if it had, Adama may have been a bargaining proposition.
I think we might as well still do that swap as Trincao on a long contract is more valuable than a year of Adama.
 

Mugwump

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But with 1 year left on his contract no matter how well he did it wasn’t going to increase his value. January was the time to sell.

I think we might as well still do that swap as Trincao on a long contract is more valuable than a year of Adama.

Nobody wanted him. We had no other offers at all for him plus he wanted to go to Barca. We didnt really have a lot of choice about what to do really. The time to sell was probably when he repeatedly refused our contract offers. At the moment, even at a knockdown price we still have no concrete offers for him. All thats happened is that bad deal from Barcelona has just got worse because he wasnt anywhere near successful there. If he did well there somebody would have taken him by now.
 

The Wolf Of Wombourne

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Nobody wanted him. We had no other offers at all for him plus he wanted to go to Barca. We didnt really have a lot of choice about what to do really. The time to sell was probably when he repeatedly refused our contract offers. At the moment, even at a knockdown price we still have no concrete offers for him. All thats happened is that bad deal from Barcelona has just got worse because he wasnt anywhere near successful there. If he did well there somebody would have taken him by now.
Spurs wanted him didn’t they?
 

Mugwump

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Spurs wanted him didn’t they?

I think you are right actually. I think they put in a bid for him, but it was a very lowball offer. Once Barca came in anyway he wasnt going anywhere else. They are the club that constantly seems to get linked to him but i think most of it is just lazy paper links from when Nuno was there.
 

The Wolf Of Wombourne

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I think you are right actually. I think they put in a bid for him, but it was a very lowball offer. Once Barca came in anyway he wasnt going anywhere else. They are the club that constantly seems to get linked to him but i think most of it is just lazy paper links from when Nuno was there.
I think we could have got 30 mil in the summer out of them but the club wanted more as they thought he might sign a deal (if my memory serves me right). Either way I just don’t think the club have handled him very well at all.
 

koplex

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Fosun do NOT treat Bruno badly, they do NOT lie to him nor do they abuse the trust.

I get you think you’re right but that doesn’t make it factual.
Bruno keeps making outlandish statements just before every widow about the number and quality players we hope to get in.

So either he enjoys looking like a tit, or he's only publicly stating what he has been told by his overbosses.
 

Mugwump

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I think we could have got 30 mil in the summer out of them but the club wanted more as they thought he might sign a deal (if my memory serves me right). Either way I just don’t think the club have handled him very well at all.

They left it too long. It was clear he wasnt going to sign a contract a long time ago. Should have disposed of him then.
 

Halesowen wwfc

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It was all very odd with traores unveiling at barca. He was introduced to the fans with great fanfare, not someone they intended to bring in for 6 months as a try before you by. I do believe there was a gentlemans agreement in place to buy him, but we have been shafted, plus our commitment to the trincao deal went off the table as well.
 

Hot Fuss

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You do realize that nobody knew how good the new players would be?
Its a lousy thing to condemn the Wolves mgt. for transfers in hindsight……..they didn’t have that luxury when they signed some players.
All transfers are a gamble.
Bizarre. So by your logic no transfer can ever be criticised.

“Unlucky on Bob Taylor Jez, you didn’t have the benefit of hindsight and couldn’t possibly have had any idea how good he’d be. Not your fault pal.”
 
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