Welcome Notice

Hello and welcome to Molineux Mix a forum for Wolves fans by Wolves fans.

Register Log in

The same old, same old, repeated arguments transfer thread

5150

Has a lot to say
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
1,639
Reaction score
1,854
He will be worth double that in a year. Club must keep him and get him to sign a new deal as the season goes on and play him. Cant believe we could be about to potentially lose MGW. It just sums up the way the club is going at the moment. Just zero good news.
£40 million player on the back of decent year in the championship? Seriously?

Wow !
IMO
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
17,271
Reaction score
18,533
Last year is irrelevant.

I listed three examples of players in the Championship who cost £20m from clubs in that division. When you're buying from a Premier League side it should be more.

The best players in the Championship cost £20m four years ago.

He was one of the best players in the Championship. Imagine if someone said Neves wasn't worth £20-25m after a year with us because it was 'far from guaranteed' he could do it in the Prem. I presume, and hope, you'd have laughed them out of town.

A little different. When Neves came to us, he had already played in the Champions League so there was some basis for him performing at a higher level before he played in the PL.
 

JOSWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
60,375
Reaction score
29,921
If he stays I can’t see him being a guaranteed starter and if he goes to forest and they get thumped every week he won’t see enough of the ball to show anything

He would be a guaranteed starter for me if he stayed in a more positive attacking formation as a no10. I also doubt Forest will be thumped every week just as Brentford werent last season. They look to be doing some decent business and seem to have a good head coach.
 

Ponty

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
8,377
Reaction score
4,643
Last year is irrelevant.

I listed three examples of players in the Championship who cost £20m from clubs in that division. When you're buying from a Premier League side it should be more.

The best players in the Championship cost £20m four years ago.

He was one of the best players in the Championship. Imagine if someone said Neves wasn't worth £20-25m after a year with us because it was 'far from guaranteed' he could do it in the Prem. I presume, and hope, you'd have laughed them out of town.
Neves barely put a foot wrong in the Championship whereas reports about MGW suggest he tried a lot of flicks and tricks and often they didn’t come off. He probably gave the ball away more in some games than Neves did in a season! Comparing the two is verging on comical.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
6,035
Reaction score
11,472
The point isn’t which club owns him, the point is where has he played. His breakout years have been in the Champ, so that’s the basis for valuation. If he had played like he did for SU but in the PL, then likely he would be worth 30-40m now. That’s yet to be demonstrated. So it’s a gamble. Take 20m and risk he does his stuff in the PL, or keep him and risk that he cannot replicate his form in the PL.. There are examples of both outcomes and I’m not sure which will be the case with him if I’m 100% honest.
I know what you're saying but I think it's wrong.

Marc Guehi cost Palace £18m after one good season with Swansea on loan from Chelsea. Do you think Palace pay £18m if he was a Swansea player? I highly doubt it.

Same player, nothing changes but I don't think for one minute he costs the same price.

Also, in terms of the gamble, top Championship players, which MGW is, go for £10-15m even if they've failed in the Premier League (Rhodes, Wilson, McCormack, Assombalonga etc.)

So, it's not really that much of a gamble is it? We keep him for a year and worse case scenario he goes for £10-15m to a top Championship side.

We keep him, he could potentially become a key player and be worth £40m+.

It should be the easiest decision ever if they offer £20m - tell them to **** off. If it's £30m, we have a tough decision to make.
 

Matt

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
7,144
Reaction score
8,612
The point isn’t which club owns him, the point is where has he played. His breakout years have been in the Champ, so that’s the basis for valuation. If he had played like he did for SU but in the PL, then likely he would be worth 30-40m now. That’s yet to be demonstrated. So it’s a gamble. Take 20m and risk he does his stuff in the PL, or keep him and risk that he cannot replicate his form in the PL.. There are examples of both outcomes and I’m not sure which will be the case with him if I’m 100% honest.
Who owns him does have an impact on his value though. If he was on loan from Walsall last season, he wouldn’t be going for £20m.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
6,035
Reaction score
11,472
Neves barely put a foot wrong in the Championship whereas reports about NGW suggest he tried a lot of flicks and tricks and often they didn’t come off. He probably have the ball away more in sone games than Neves did in a season! Comparing the two is verging on comical.
Why are you debating with me when you haven't seen him play? 'Reports' ffs.

I saw him play 10-15 times. He was outstanding in the Championship and the Sheffield United fans will tell you the same.
 

JOSWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
60,375
Reaction score
29,921
Put it this way. What I want to see us do next season with MGW.

As it stands, Raul or Fabio up top with MGW, Neto and Podence behind, two in central midfield and 4 at the back.


Attack lined up like,


Neto MGW Podence

Fabio/ Raul


More creativity and more chances created for Fabio and Raul.
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
17,271
Reaction score
18,533
He would be a guaranteed starter for me if he stayed in a more positive attacking formation as a no10. I also doubt Forest will be thumped every week just as Brentford werent last season. They look to be doing some decent business and seem to have a good head coach.

That may be so Jos, but Forest may also find it challenging to break down PL defences and that will make Morgan look like a blunt instrument at this level. If there is one thing about the PL, it’s that the defences are tighter than any other league. That’s why some Bundersleague superstars struggle here. Not saying that Morgan will fail, just that it’s not certain by any means.
 

WickedWolfie

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
31,141
Reaction score
30,473
He would be a guaranteed starter for me if he stayed in a more positive attacking formation as a no10. I also doubt Forest will be thumped every week just as Brentford werent last season. They look to be doing some decent business and seem to have a good head coach.
Brentford, had they not signed Erickson, would be starting this season in the Chump
 

JOSWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
60,375
Reaction score
29,921
Sorry Jos, had you said "he may be worth double" l would have agreed but "will"? He has it all to do to prove himself at PL level. I think that he will but it is by no means certain.

We will see mate. I am quietly confident he is all set for an excellent season with or without us and it will be a sad state of affairs if we sell him.
 

Ponty

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
8,377
Reaction score
4,643
Why are you debating with me when you haven't seen him play? 'Reports' ffs.

I saw him play 10-15 times. He was outstanding in the Championship and the Sheffield United fans will tell you the same.
I’ve seen him, not as many times as you but enough to know comparisons with Neves are ridiculous. SU fans loved him but they also acknowledged he regularly tried too much fancy stuff. I hope he stays but if we’re sticking with a back 3 I’m not sure he fits well anywhere.
 

Rauls Headband

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
66
Reaction score
106
I agree the broad thrust of your post but not all the detail. As an example Trincao flopped at Barca in 19/20 almost as badly as Hwang did in Germany.
I do not agree with every one of your player assessments but in general you make a good point.

Good point about Trincaos 19/20 season though I think it was still a reasonable business decision at the time.

We all have different views on players so expected some disagreement but that’s the fun of football!

With time and patience I think Trincao could have gone on to do good things, but he did seem to struggle with the physicality of the league so maybe not.

As much as we’d all love ‘PL Ready’ players to strengthen the squad the reality is as a club we’re trying to do that without the deep pockets and draw of the Sky 6 which means having to be creative but also really savvy with money.

When we were a ‘project’ in the Championship the majority of the players we signed were fringe players who weren’t exactly pulling up trees at the time. Very few you would have called out as ‘PL Ready’ (Mouts and Rui) but what we could offer them at the time wasn’t just a project but also regular or even guaranteed game time.

That approach doesn’t work so well for us now as fringe players with potential will still be fringe players trying to force their way into a first team so convincing them to come is harder.

Not to mention even ‘PL ready’ players can take time to bed in e.g. Somedo

Also worth pointing out that even Man U, with all their money, new well respected and high profile manager, European football, and with something that is the definition of a ‘project’ are struggling in the transfer market.

Would really like to see us do some business that gets everyone excited but I also like the fact the club is being managed in a financially responsible way and not splurging cash for the sake of change (though I’d agree some change is needed).
 

JOSWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
60,375
Reaction score
29,921
£40 million player on the back of decent year in the championship? Seriously?

Wow !
IMO

Read what I said mate. I said after next season. A bit of a difference. My feeling is he will do really well next season whether with us or elsewhere. Reminds me very much of Gallagher from Chelsea. How much would you value him at after his season at Palace last season? I reckon MGW will do similar next season to what he did last.
 

5150

Has a lot to say
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
1,639
Reaction score
1,854
Why are you debating with me when you haven't seen him play? 'Reports' ffs.

I saw him play 10-15 times. He was outstanding in the Championship and the Sheffield United fans will tell you the same.
He started well but he dropped off during the final games (when they needed him most).
He went missing in games and the "arm waving" started.
Don't get me wrong, would love to see him come back,get his head down and work for the shirt. But some see him as the saviour (sure JOS mentioned building a team around him...!!!! If not you apologies JOS)

Just don't see him stepping up as many do.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
6,035
Reaction score
11,472
I’ve seen him, not as many times as you but enough to know comparisons with Neves are ridiculous. SU fans loved him but they also acknowledged he regularly tried too much fancy stuff. I hope he stays but if we’re sticking with a back 3 I’m not sure he fits well anywhere.
The Neves point was purely that he was also 'unproven' in the Premier League but we all knew he was brilliant. It should be the same here.

I'd rather go to a back four but in the current setup I believe MGW & Neto off Jimenez is the best we have.
 

Rabid Wolf

Groupie
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
261
Reaction score
343
That’s probably because we own half of them and loan them out. So not surprising at all.
It's worse than that it seems their president, Sun Sky, is signing players without input from the recruitment team and also seem to be running the club from China.
 

5150

Has a lot to say
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
1,639
Reaction score
1,854
Read what I said mate. I said after next season. A bit of a difference. My feeling is he will do really well next season whether with us or elsewhere. Reminds me very much of Gallagher from Chelsea. How much would you value him at after his season at Palace last season? I reckon MGW will do similar next season to what he did last.
Regardless of however many seasons, he will never IMO be a £40 million player.
And Gallagher is streets ahead of him
 

Woburn Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
7,140
Reaction score
2,152
MGW returning was the silver lining of this crap window so far for me and now even he's leaving.

Trying to be level headed at the moment but it's difficult.
I disagree. If he wants to leave and we can get a good fee for him, let him move on. It will help fund improvements.
 

JOSWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
60,375
Reaction score
29,921
Regardless of however many seasons, he will never IMO be a £40 million player.
And Gallagher is streets ahead of him

I totally disagree and we will see what happens with MGW over the next 18 months. Will be star for us, in my opinion, if we play a proper attacking formation next season. Will be massive shame to sell him.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
6,035
Reaction score
11,472
He started well but he dropped off during the final games (when they needed him most).
He went missing in games and the "arm waving" started.
Don't get me wrong, would love to see him come back,get his head down and work for the shirt. But some see him as the saviour (sure JOS mentioned building a team around him...!!!! If not you apologies JOS)

Just don't see him stepping up as many do.
Think that's very harsh, he was excellent at the City Ground when Sheffield United were really up against it.

I have no problem with people thinking he won't step up, I disagree, but that's your opinion, completely fair enough.

My point is his value has to be more than £20m, it simply has to be, because of the reasons I've outlined. Whether you think it's right or wrong, the reality is it's lower than the going rate for players who have done what he has.

So if we sell for such a price it's because we're desperate, which brings it's own worries.
 

JOSWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
60,375
Reaction score
29,921
I disagree. If he wants to leave and we can get a good fee for him, let him move on. It will help fund improvements.

Trouble is who will we sign with that money? Another Hwang or two? Would have to be some very good signings with that money to justify letting MGW go.
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
17,271
Reaction score
18,533
I know what you're saying but I think it's wrong.

Marc Guehi cost Palace £18m after one good season with Swansea on loan from Chelsea. Do you think Palace pay £18m if he was a Swansea player? I highly doubt it.

Same player, nothing changes but I don't think for one minute he costs the same price.

Also, in terms of the gamble, top Championship players, which MGW is, go for £10-15m even if they've failed in the Premier League (Rhodes, Wilson, McCormack, Assombalonga etc.)

So, it's not really that much of a gamble is it? We keep him for a year and worse case scenario he goes for £10-15m to a top Championship side.

We keep him, he could potentially become a key player and be worth £40m+.

It should be the easiest decision ever if they offer £20m - tell them to **** off. If it's £30m, we have a tough decision to make.

And I agree with that. That’s why it’s his choice. Because we are will to take the relatively small hit if he fails with us in the PL and is then sold for 5-10m less.

As to the owning club making a difference. This is true, but not because it’s PL vs Champ. It’s because of finances. A Champ club has turnover of perhaps 60-70m, whereas a PL club, 2-3x that. A big six club, 5-10x that. So Chelsea can take a position based largely on the potential value of a player. A Champ club, could see the money as the basis for a squad rebuild. A smaller PL like Wolves, something in between depending on current squad / cash needs.

So it’s not a given that a PL club gets to sell MGW for more than a Champ club unless the PL club is so comfortable financially that they can take it or leave it. Unfortunately we are not that comfortable financially, so we sit in the group of being somewhat ambivalent between selling for a fair fee based on his Champ performances and keeping him on the hope that he replicates them at this level. I honestly think 20m is that pivot point where he gets to choose.
 
Last edited:

NottsWolves

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jul 2, 2015
Messages
4,521
Reaction score
3,896
All about opinions on here but genuinely cant believe some are so happy to sell MGW. Anyone would think we have quality players lined up to replace him and incoming or have already signed them.

One of our own and he is quality and yet happy to sell. Find it very strange.
But it’s not that simple. If he won’t sign a new contract (which is his choice) then we should look to sell, otherwise this is another Traore situation, where plenty of people want to criticise the club for the fact he’s running down his contract and we won’t get anything in return.

Unless I’m missing something have Forest actually bid. Everything seems to suggest they have an interest. Well we apparently have interests in players yet it means **** all until they have signed a contract.
 

Halesowen wwfc

Has a lot to say
Joined
Jun 12, 2018
Messages
1,392
Reaction score
2,327
I know what you're saying but I think it's wrong.

Marc Guehi cost Palace £18m after one good season with Swansea on loan from Chelsea. Do you think Palace pay £18m if he was a Swansea player? I highly doubt it.

Same player, nothing changes but I don't think for one minute he costs the same price.

Also, in terms of the gamble, top Championship players, which MGW is, go for £10-15m even if they've failed in the Premier League (Rhodes, Wilson, McCormack, Assombalonga etc.)

So, it's not really that much of a gamble is it? We keep him for a year and worse case scenario he goes for £10-15m to a top Championship side.

We keep him, he could potentially become a key player and be worth £40m+.

It should be the easiest decision ever if they offer £20m - tell them to **** off. If it's £30m, we have a tough decision to make.
With 1 year left on his contract if u kept him for 1 more year, he wouldnt be worth 15m.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
6,035
Reaction score
11,472
But it’s not that simple. If he won’t sign a new contract (which is his choice) then we should look to sell, otherwise this is another Traore situation, where plenty of people want to criticise the club for the fact he’s running down his contract and we won’t get anything in return.

Unless I’m missing something have Forest actually bid. Everything seems to suggest they have an interest. Well we apparently have interests in players yet it means **** all until they have signed a contract.
Cornwall said on here a fee had been agreed, although no figures mentioned.
 

Woburn Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
7,140
Reaction score
2,152
Trouble is who will we sign with that money? Another Hwang or two? Would have to be some very good signings with that money to justify letting MGW go.
Who knows but unless he really wants to be here we are better off without him.
 

Ponty

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
8,377
Reaction score
4,643
Think that's very harsh, he was excellent at the City Ground when Sheffield United were really up against it.

I have no problem with people thinking he won't step up, I disagree, but that's your opinion, completely fair enough.

My point is his value has to be more than £20m, it simply has to be, because of the reasons I've outlined. Whether you think it's right or wrong, the reality is it's lower than the going rate for players who have done what he has.

So if we sell for such a price it's because we're desperate, which brings it's own worries.
Eze cost £17m and was at least as impressive for QPR as MGW was for SU. I’ll leave it at that other than to say if he’s so highly rated why aren’t teams better than Forest lining up to sign him and competing to push the price up to £30m?
 

westside wolf

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
813
Reaction score
445
My issue with selling MGW or any other first team squad player right now, is the very real danger we actually just won’t replace them. The number of times in the last few years where someone left, and we all blindly assumed they would be replaced, but actually they never were. The history of us weakening the squad for no retrospective benefit is shocking.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
6,035
Reaction score
11,472
Eze cost £17m and was at least as impressive for QPR as MGW was for SU. I’ll leave it at that other than to say if he’s so highly rated why aren’t teams better than Forest lining up to sign him and competing to push the price up to £30m?
And Benrahma joined West Ham in a deal that's worth £25-30m. So QPR were probably a few million short at least, but they're completely different to us as we're Premier League and some fans (me included) see Forest as rivals. Those factors change the dynamics of a deal massively.

Do you think we could sign Brennan Johnson for £20m?

The Athletic said the other day that six teams are interested in him but I don't care about driving the price up. We shouldn't even be listening until they offer around £30m.
 
Last edited:

sc91

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
13,895
Reaction score
11,747
Think that's very harsh, he was excellent at the City Ground when Sheffield United were really up against it.

I have no problem with people thinking he won't step up, I disagree, but that's your opinion, completely fair enough.

My point is his value has to be more than £20m, it simply has to be, because of the reasons I've outlined. Whether you think it's right or wrong, the reality is it's lower than the going rate for players who have done what he has.

So if we sell for such a price it's because we're desperate, which brings it's own worries.
The last sentence is the current regime, desperate.
 
Top Bottom