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The same old, same old, repeated arguments transfer thread

Hot Fuss

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It was all very odd with traores unveiling at barca. He was introduced to the fans with great fanfare, not someone they intended to bring in for 6 months as a try before you by. I do believe there was a gentlemans agreement in place to buy him, but we have been shafted, plus our commitment to the trincao deal went off the table as well.
Could be wrong but I think they do that with every signing.

If we are working on gentleman’s agreements (I doubt it) we deserve shafting.
 

CologneWolf

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So what about actively weakening the squad by loaning out Adama on the worlds ****test deal? That for me was criminal and undermined the whole season.
What about it? Did you ever try something and it didn’t come off? That’s all that happened in this case. It didn’t come off how Wolves envisioned so it reflects poorly. Big deal. It happens at every club.
 

koplex

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You can't have a coherent approach to the transfer market if you "Sell to Buy" because you're always relying on the sell aspect of the equation.
And when that sell aspect happens to be to clubs like Barcelona or Man Utd (who are for varying reasons unreliable to say the least) then you're stuffed
Incorrect. All three elite Portuguese clubs do that every season. They are all sell to buy clubs, but have already scouted (and in many instances already have signed pre-agreements) multiple platers as chraper replacements. And they rarely get it wrong as they can't afford to.

We need to replicate their scouting and player recruitment if we want to successfully adopt this strategy - having Sellars and Hobbs in charge doesn't fill anyone with confidence.
 

hollo

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Most of us said it was crazy with no obligation to buy, and the likely prospect of traore running his contract down.

After having to fork out with add ons 35 million for semedo you would have thought we could have had a favour reciprocated.
But no, we then pay 4.5 million loan fee for trincao.
 
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Summer_Wolf

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You have quite list there of players who were brought in to strengthen the side. Whether they all worked out to your satisfaction is irrelevant to me.
The point we were discussing is you said we didn’t strengthen at all……but we did.
And the proof is that they are all mostly on the payroll.

My satisfaction? It's got nothing to do with my satisfaction. The bare facts are that none of these players strengthened the first eleven.

We strengthened the first 11 with two players in the last 7 windows. That's not good enough.
 

Summer_Wolf

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And despite this, 7th, 7th, 13th and 10th.

Absolute staggering incompetence.

The first window in 2018 has got us by. We've got away with it due to this, nothing to do with Fosun's non existent investment since. Two managers for the last 3 years have constantly asked for signings, and not got them.
 

Kashmire Hawker

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Seeing the way this thread is doing it's thing, I feel good that at about Teatime on Wednesday that I shall be at Silverstone for Grand Prix weekend and therefore don't intend to regularly looking at it from that point.

Of course though, it would be typical if everything gets going the rear end of next week! :sweatsmile:
 

Black Country Wanderer

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My satisfaction? It's got nothing to do with my satisfaction. The bare facts are that none of these players strengthened the first eleven.

We strengthened the first 11 with two players in the last 7 windows. That's not good enough.
The point hes trying to make is thats your opinion not absolute fact
Id argue that Jonny,Neto,Semedo,Podence and Sa have improved us to a degree,but thats my opinion too lol
 

NottsWolves

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Not what id call a good source at all,but several minor ones like TeamTalk and the Forest News
I live in Nottingham and have several friends who are season ticket holders for Forest, they haven’t heard anything about him coming to them.

Only thing I’ve seen is the sun reporting it today - not the best source.
 

Black Country Wanderer

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I live in Nottingham and have several friends who are season ticket holders for Forest, they haven’t heard anything about him coming to them.

Only thing I’ve seen is the sun reporting it today - not the best source.
I hope your right as i do rate him,if his head is on right
Just passing on what ive seen today,as i said not the best sources at all
 

wolfgar

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Be pretty rubbish to see a talented young player like MGW prefer a move to a promoted side rather than sign a new deal here. Hardly like our squad is stacked. The sources aren’t the most credible, but my hunch is that he leaves
 

sc91

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Jeff does want a new yacht, so chances are he goes.
 

Bill McCai

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Frenkie De Jong is leaving Barcelona according to Gerard Romero. This means Utd have put the money up. We should know relatively soon if their interest in Neves is real or not.
 

Hanbury_Wolf

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Be pretty rubbish to see a talented young player like MGW prefer a move to a promoted side rather than sign a new deal here. Hardly like our squad is stacked. The sources aren’t the most credible, but my hunch is that he leaves
Where is that info coming from?
 

Wednesbury Wolf

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There have been loads of players in the Championship who have done really well only to fail miserably in the Premiership so before we talk about MGW being a top player we need to see him doing it at a higher level.
For that reason if he goes which looks very likely let's hope we get a few quid for him
 

Wolf316

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Frenkie De Jong is leaving Barcelona according to Gerard Romero. This means Utd have put the money up. We should know relatively soon if their interest in Neves is real or not.
They’ll use that cash for Bernardo Silva.
 

WickedWolfie

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There have been loads of players in the Championship who have done really well only to fail miserably in the Premiership so before we talk about MGW being a top player we need to see him doing it at a higher level.
For that reason if he goes which looks very likely let's hope we get a few quid for him
Agreed. Stick a sell-on clause in too if he goes. I'd rather keep him but we need to cover the bases if he wants to go.
 

Chisels_n_ommers

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Incorrect. All three elite Portuguese clubs do that every season. They are all sell to buy clubs, but have already scouted (and in many instances already have signed pre-agreements) multiple platers as chraper replacements. And they rarely get it wrong as they can't afford to.

We need to replicate their scouting and player recruitment if we want to successfully adopt this strategy - having Sellars and Hobbs in charge doesn't fill anyone with confidence.
"All three Portuguese Clubs do that every season".

Correct.

They don't suddenly pitch up and do it, it's a long term strategy, honed over a period of time. And they certainly don't rely on basket case clubs with financial irregularities (who happen to have played them already with a player) to fulfil the strategy.

And they sell from a position of strength (ie remaining squad in place, European qulafication, almost guaranteed league positions). In other words, they don't need to sell and don't need to buy - a fundamental difference to our situation.
 

JayStringer

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Most of us said it was crazy with no obligation to buy, and the likely prospect of traore running his contract down.

After having to fork out with add ons 35 million for semedo you would have thought we could have had a favour reciprocated.
But no, we then pay 4.5 million loan fee for trincao.

The Trincao loan was the reciprocated favour.
 

thommo1984

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it's a long term strategy, honed over a period of time. And they certainly don't rely on basket case clubs with financial irregularities (who happen to have played them already with a player) to fulfil the strategy.
Or do it from a starting point of a hugely lopsided and depleted squad. It's madness.
 

rincewind

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That’s fair.

"All three Portuguese Clubs do that every season".

Correct.

They don't suddenly pitch up and do it, it's a long term strategy, honed over a period of time. And they certainly don't rely on basket case clubs with financial irregularities (who happen to have played them already with a player) to fulfil the strategy.

And they sell from a position of strength (ie remaining squad in place, European qulafication, almost guaranteed league positions). In other words, they don't need to sell and don't need to buy - a fundamental difference to our situation.
Agree with most of what you say but they most certainly do need to sell most years.
 

Rauls Headband

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Something I think considering is the incoming on our transfer windows without the benefit of hindsight, and also considering whether at the time, they could be considered good business. Some examples:
  • Ait Nouri - clearly talented, good reputation, good investment potential, low risk, can argue good business
  • Sa - reputation as a solid keeper at Olympiacos, however played 2nd or even 3rd fiddle to Patricio in the national side, moderate risk so 'ok' business
  • Trincao - Barca player, youth and snr international, technically gifted, loan to buy option, huge ceiling, low risk, can argue good business
  • Mosquera - Columbian Youth International, didn't cost much, good investment potential, low risk, can argue good business
  • Chiquinho - same profile as Mosquera, low risk, can argue good business
  • Bolla - similar to Mosquera and Chiquinho, maybe not as high ceiling, so 'ok' business
  • Hwang - S. Korea International, 2 decent seasons with Salzburg, but flopped at RB Leipzig, loan to buy, so 'ok' business at that point, decision to buy in Jan, not good business
  • Cutrone - established youth and senior international, good record with Milan, high ceiling, cost not extortionate, low risk, so can argue good business
  • Toti - complete unknown, loaned immediately to Grasshoppers, WTF, not good business
  • Silva - 'Generational Talent, established youth international, hardly played senior football, high ceiling, insane transfer fee, high risk, not good business
  • Semedo - senior international, solid player for Benfica and Barca, paid market rate at the time, low risk, 'ok' business
  • Podence - youth and senior international, can be talented when he wants to be, however indifferent season at Olympiacos, useless at Sporting, paid over market rate, not good business
  • Neto - youth international, complete unknown, barely played senior football, potential high ceiling, paid way over market rate, high risk, not good business
  • Vallejo - youth international, had already been loaned out by Real Madrid twice, loan, medium risk, maybe 'ok' business
Without the benefit of hindsight none of the above really points to 'incompetence' or a recruitment team that doesn't know what they're doing, just that it proves that pure numbers, stats, xG, (blah etc) don't lead to a good signing. Nor does it show a recruitment team not attempting to build a good football team, or neglecting to do so. The above is what we know, who knows what deals were being discussed that didn't happen.

Another point worth making is that professional footballers now are considering their ENTIRE careers (and as Neves has pointed out these are very short) and the monetisation of those careers.

The Premier League is the most intense, aggressive, physical (and arguably even now technical) football league in the world that has swallowed up and spat out many incredibly talented footballers to the detriment of their careers, and subsequent earning potential.

Any footballer in any other league in the world is going to be considering whether their style of play suits the PL, whether they're ready for the PL, what the potential risk is to their earning potential is if they don't make it etc. Its not as simple as wanting to play in the 'best' league in the world, so players need to be convinced its worth the risk when they're balancing up a decision on their earning potential (and of course, unfortunately, the earning potential for their agents).

As an example I'm happy for Vitinha because he's managed to see his time at Wolves as a 'blip' and fortunately his spell in the PL hasn't affected his potential earnings or his mindset. Maybe he'll come back to the PL when he's ready, or he may decide his style of play is better suited elsewhere (but still keep his earning potential).

Cutrone, however, is an example of a player with huge potential who was chewed up and destroyed by the pressures of the PL, and destroyed the mindset of someone who clearly is a confidence player. If he'd scored that sitter against Man City who knows........

In hindsight, have many of these signings strengthened the first team?

Unfortunately not, and its absolutely ok to call this out and discuss why and what went wrong.

But I do think its unfair to criticise the club for not trying, or to criticise them for running the club like a business. Whether we as fans like it or not, with the sums of money involved, this is what they are.
 

Fenrir_

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This was widely reported:

Wolves have completed the signing of Portuguese duo Pedro Neto, 19, and Bruno Jordao, 20, from Lazio for a fee in the region of £18million.
Not £24 million.
It's always been £24m, never £18m. In fact on Transfermarkt (which is usually reliable for factual things such as transfer costs), they have Neto at €17.9m and Jordao at €8.9m. Or just check out Bill McCai's post (#1178) which has a link to them costing a combined €27.5m

So whatever you saw wasn't widely reported at all
 
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