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The same old, same old, repeated arguments transfer thread

CologneWolf

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Then I will be happy and pleased. As I said previously, I’ve defended our transfer business a lot, and in the last two windows, I stuck with it until deadline evening, only to be left disappointed. I will be very happy not to experience that again.
Must have been harrowing.
I’m joking of course.

Anyway I must apologise, I had some clever answer to your original question I wanted to say but it’s escaped me now.

In an inarticulate form it was basically saying

“So what if we don’t strengthen in the window?”

Nothing happens and that’s the end of it. 11 men will represent wolves and try to be better than another set of 11 men.

Which coincidentally is the same answer if we do strengthen.

I think I was trying to make a point about its all the same until after the fact. no one knows what will happen either way. . I.e not strenghten and somehow finish 6th or go nuts in the window and still get relegated.

So again, Sorry Sussex and anybody else who managed to finish my incoherent rambling for wasting your time.
 

Sussex Wolf

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What if they do? Will some folks on here apologise and be content? I'll answer my own question.... no, because these sad individuals can never be happy or satisfied.

If your comment was directed at me, then apologise for what? I just asked a simple question.

For the record, I was one of the last on here to actively defend our transfer business until the evening at the end of last summer’s window, when it finally became clear that none of the rumoured deals would land. I will very happily laud it if we strengthen this summer.
 

CologneWolf

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Must have been harrowing.
I’m joking of course.

Anyway I must apologise, I had some clever answer to your original question I wanted to say but it’s escaped me now.

In an inarticulate form it was basically saying

“So what if we don’t strengthen in the window?”

Nothing happens and that’s the end of it. 11 men will represent wolves and try to be better than another set of 11 men.

Which coincidentally is the same answer if we do strengthen.

I think I was trying to make a point about its all the same until after the fact. no one knows what will happen either way. . I.e not strenghten and somehow finish 6th or go nuts in the window and still get relegated.

So again, Sorry Sussex and anybody else who managed to finish my incoherent rambling for wasting your time.
1FFBAA64-5196-41F4-8A7F-346DC74F33EC.gif D924F228-6247-4A28-BE2B-F843FC9EAB5A.gif 19CA2677-9E97-47F0-99CF-B80B03520225.gif
 

Sussex Wolf

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Must have been harrowing.
I’m joking of course.

Anyway I must apologise, I had some clever answer to your original question I wanted to say but it’s escaped me now.

In an inarticulate form it was basically saying

“So what if we don’t strengthen in the window?”

Nothing happens and that’s the end of it. 11 men will represent wolves and try to be better than another set of 11 men.

Which coincidentally is the same answer if we do strengthen.

I think I was trying to make a point about its all the same until after the fact. no one knows what will happen either way. . I.e not strenghten and somehow finish 6th or go nuts in the window and still get relegated.

So again, Sorry Sussex and anybody else who managed to finish my incoherent rambling for wasting your time.

No worries. My question was simple, and perhaps a little rhetorical. The post I responded to was asking for support and patience for the club against the current negativity. That’s a fair request, but my point was what happens if that patience is not rewarded by deadline day?

You’re right, when the season starts, our team will go out and play, and we will all be behind them, whoever is on the pitch. Thats different from how we may feel about our owners and their representatives, and the two shouldn’t really be conflated. We love our club, but we may or may not respect our owners, depending on how they treat our club.
 

wolfslair

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Dude are you ok?
He has just found out his ex the love of his life has managed to get the hammer he thought was destroyed and gone forever and may be living her best life without him……

Thor, then has to deal with it being the summer blockbuster….

I would be a mess too!

Stay strong brother!
 

CologneWolf

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No worries. My question was simple, and perhaps a little rhetorical. The post I responded to was asking for support and patience for the club against the current negativity. That’s a fair request, but my point was what happens if that patience is not rewarded in the end?

You’re right, when the season starts, our team will go out and play, and we will all be behind them, whoever is on the pitch. Thats different from how we may feel about the club, and our owners, and the two shouldn’t really be conflated. We love our club, but we may or may not respect our owners, depending on how they treat our club.
Totally get ya. And exactly to your point, if patience is not rewarded in the end. That’s all it is. How we feel about it doesn’t change the outcome.

It’s for each person to decide how they react to outcomes but I think what bothers a lot of people, myself included is that when there is a general negative/pessimistic attitude to things that have not even yet happened.

I understand many base this on our recent transfer history and that’s fair. But it’s also just as fair to say “Let’s wait and see” with out needing a response that continues the argumentative cycle.

This is not directed at you or any individual by the way. Just my thoughts
 

Summer_Wolf

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Some interesting points and definitely some valid ones.
However, I disagree with you when you say since the summer of 2018, every single window since then we haven’t strengthened at all. All the transfer are on record and can be checked any time.

I agree that the last two season performances were terrible although I am sure that Covid had a lot to do with that. Had it not been for that, we may very well had another top 10 finish or a decent cup run.
As for last season, we’ll, yes injuries played a part but I wonder if Bruno is going to be much better this season.

Give me an example of a window where we bought players that have strengthened the first eleven. There hasn't been one.

Jan 2019 - signed Johnny permanantly (who was already here) and signed Campana, another one who'd not kicked a ball for us.

Summer 2019 - Vallejo and Cutrone, the less said the better. Jordao no. Neto yes okay, we struck lucky with that one.

January 2020 - Podence. Again, is this a player who has significantly strengthened the side? I'm not convinced.

Summer 2020 - Jota and Doc out, Silva, Marval, Hoever, Semedo in. Overall, with the goals/assists we lost in the two that left, none of those players strengthened the side from the previous season.

Jan 2021 - Willian Jose - what more is there to say? We may as well have stuck a traffic cone up front instead.

Summer 2021 - Jose Sa was an upgrade on Rui yes. Hwang no, Trincao no, Mosquera no.

Jan 2022 - the raw Chiquinho brought in, Adama let go. No other strengthening.

Apart from Sa and Neto, a grand total of two signings out of the last seven windows who you could say strengthened the first 11. For all these windows, the squad's spine has been neglected. No quality centre half, no quality midfielder(s), no quality striker to compete with Raul. A wafer thin squad. We have not strengthened properly since the first window we came up - and that is a hell of a long time to buy players and not improve the starting 11. Staggering incompetence in fact. It's just not good enough at all.
 

VancouverWolf

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Give me an example of a window where we bought players that have strengthened the first eleven. There hasn't been one.

Jan 2019 - signed Johnny permanantly (who was already here) and signed Campana, another one who'd not kicked a ball for us.

Summer 2019 - Vallejo and Cutrone, the less said the better. Jordao no. Neto yes okay, we struck lucky with that one.

January 2020 - Podence. Again, is this a player who has significantly strengthened the side? I'm not convinced.

Summer 2020 - Jota and Doc out, Silva, Marval, Hoever, Semedo in. Overall, with the goals/assists we lost in the two that left, none of those players strengthened the side from the previous season.

Jan 2021 - Willian Jose - what more is there to say? We may as well have stuck a traffic cone up front instead.

Summer 2021 - Jose Sa was an upgrade on Rui yes. Hwang no, Trincao no, Mosquera no.

Jan 2022 - the raw Chiquinho brought in, Adama let go. No other strengthening.

Apart from Sa and Neto, a grand total of two signings out of the last seven windows who you could say strengthened the first 11. For all these windows, the squad's spine has been neglected. No quality centre half, no quality midfielder(s), no quality striker to compete with Raul. A wafer thin squad. We have not strengthened properly since the first window we came up - and that is a hell of a long time to buy players and not improve the starting 11. Staggering incompetence in fact. It's just not good enough at all.
You have quite list there of players who were brought in to strengthen the side. Whether they all worked out to your satisfaction is irrelevant to me.
The point we were discussing is you said we didn’t strengthen at all……but we did.
And the proof is that they are all mostly on the payroll.
 

Jayjaywolves

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What if they do? Will some folks on here apologise and be content? I'll answer my own question.... no, because these sad individuals can never be happy or satisfied.
That's a huge generalisation.
I think most folks would be happy with just one signing that competes for a starting 11 position.
If we are shipping out quality, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a little bit of quality to replace them.
Our squad has been treading water for a couple of seasons. We are walking a fine line.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

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That's a huge generalisation.
I think most folks would be happy with just one signing that competes for a starting 11 position.
If we are shipping out quality, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a little bit of quality to replace them.
Our squad has been treading water for a couple of seasons. We are walking a fine line.
Sorry, although I agree with the sentiment, you can't tread water and walk a fine line at the same time.
 

Mugwump

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But that doesn’t matter. He wasn’t signed as a senior player and went into the U23 squad. He is not like Jonny, Semedo, Boly et al. Many of our U23 players are similar - products of another academy or lower league team and brought into our U23 or Grasshoppers team first before graduating to the senior squad.

I think development players and Academy players need to be treated differently tbh as the recruitment is a fair bit different. Development players that go into the u23's are generally later bloomers or players coming from another system where they havent quite hit the mark. The academy boys generally are in our system from a much younger age and we bring them through. You do need both avenues of recruitment and development.

I think its fair to say the likes of Kilman, and going back further somebody like Hennesey are development players and not academy players, they havent come through our system like say a MGW, Murray or a Mark Davies.
 

Ian

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You have quite list there of players who were brought in to strengthen the side. Whether they all worked out to your satisfaction is irrelevant to me.
The point we were discussing is you said we didn’t strengthen at all……but we did.
And the proof is that they are all mostly on the payroll.

Its not strengthening the side when you sell proven good players and replace them with inferior!
 

Mugwump

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I seriously doubt a multimillion investment company like Fosun is in any way effected by critical voices at MolMix...
In fact I'm quite sure they don't care much about the overall opinion of any fans at all.
In some ways its good because they should run the club in the best possible way and not ust to appease fans.
On the other hand its a worry because if this continues there will come a time when most of us would wish they cared about fans opinion.
And no I don't want them gone. But I do want them to know I'm quite worried at the direction of the club.

Lets be honest, they havent really copped a backlash from the support yet. I think this could be the year it happens if this window gets stuffed up.
 

Oh Robbie Robie

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Give me an example of a window where we bought players that have strengthened the first eleven. There hasn't been one.

Jan 2019 - signed Johnny permanantly (who was already here) and signed Campana, another one who'd not kicked a ball for us.

Summer 2019 - Vallejo and Cutrone, the less said the better. Jordao no. Neto yes okay, we struck lucky with that one.

January 2020 - Podence. Again, is this a player who has significantly strengthened the side? I'm not convinced.

Summer 2020 - Jota and Doc out, Silva, Marval, Hoever, Semedo in. Overall, with the goals/assists we lost in the two that left, none of those players strengthened the side from the previous season.

Jan 2021 - Willian Jose - what more is there to say? We may as well have stuck a traffic cone up front instead.

Summer 2021 - Jose Sa was an upgrade on Rui yes. Hwang no, Trincao no, Mosquera no.

Jan 2022 - the raw Chiquinho brought in, Adama let go. No other strengthening.

Apart from Sa and Neto, a grand total of two signings out of the last seven windows who you could say strengthened the first 11. For all these windows, the squad's spine has been neglected. No quality centre half, no quality midfielder(s), no quality striker to compete with Raul. A wafer thin squad. We have not strengthened properly since the first window we came up - and that is a hell of a long time to buy players and not improve the starting 11. Staggering incompetence in fact. It's just not good enough at all.
And despite this, 7th, 7th, 13th and 10th.

Absolute staggering incompetence.
 

Sussex Wolf

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I think development players and Academy players need to be treated differently tbh as the recruitment is a fair bit different. Development players that go into the u23's are generally later bloomers or players coming from another system where they havent quite hit the mark. The academy boys generally are in our system from a much younger age and we bring them through. You do need both avenues of recruitment and development.

I think its fair to say the likes of Kilman, and going back further somebody like Hennesey are development players and not academy players, they havent come through our system like say a MGW, Murray or a Mark Davies.

I think that’s fair. My comment was really that the way our recruitment has evolved, we have more of a blend of this now, but I agree they are different development paths. I was really trying to differentiate between these paths, and first team ready signings like Semedo, Sa, or Hwang, to name a few of the more recent examples.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

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The Sun saying we’re after Connor Roberts from Burnley (as well as maintaining interest in Collins) and MGW likely to go to Forest for £20m.

The Roberts’ of this world are generally dismissed on here but I think he’s be a good signing at a decent price - say £6-7m.

Got a bit about him and I’d say we are one wing-back short now.

Selling MGW for £20m would be scandalous. Let’s hope that’s not true.
 

Adrian_Monk

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23 pages since the “new” thread started, and still sweet fa Wolves transfers to talk about. Even the rumours have dried up now.
I thought today might be the day, looked on the official site and was greeted by 'Dendoncker's Daily Routine'
 

SoCal_Wolf

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And despite this, 7th, 7th, 13th and 10th.

Absolute staggering incompetence.
During Covid and EUFA sanctions. I also like how people enjoy being Captain Hindsight—easy to say now that players we brought in didn’t work out. Trincao…highly rated; Vitinha…highly rated; even Cutrone had the signs of a good striker. I was excited for all of them—why do people hammer the club for trying to bring these players in??? There’s no guarantee that any transfer will work out.

The fact is that, even under true difficult budget constraints, the club has brought in players every window—every summer we’ve seen 4-5 new signings. Why would this summer be any different?!
 

VancouverWolf

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During Covid and EUFA sanctions. I also like how people enjoy being Captain Hindsight—easy to say now that players we brought in didn’t work out. Trincao…highly rated; Vitinha…highly rated; even Cutrone had the signs of a good striker. I was excited for all of them—why do people hammer the club for trying to bring these players in??? There’s no guarantee that any transfer will work out.

The fact is that, even under true difficult budget constraints, the club has brought in players every window—every summer we’ve seen 4-5 new signings. Why would this summer be any different?!
You ask a very valid and timely question……

why do some fans criticize the club if transfers don’t work out?
 

bod101

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Mods is this a forum or a one sided view forum . Disappointed as looked at this and another site for years but really thought a forum you get a chance to post . Maybe you our that in the small print before people commit to the site .
Did you read this thread stickied at the top of this forum?

 

Mugwump

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During Covid and EUFA sanctions. I also like how people enjoy being Captain Hindsight—easy to say now that players we brought in didn’t work out. Trincao…highly rated; Vitinha…highly rated; even Cutrone had the signs of a good striker. I was excited for all of them—why do people hammer the club for trying to bring these players in??? There’s no guarantee that any transfer will work out.

The fact is that, even under true difficult budget constraints, the club has brought in players every window—every summer we’ve seen 4-5 new signings. Why would this summer be any different?!

I agree, not every transfer will work out, but when your model is sell to buy, you cant afford to bring players that you will actually lose money on. It puts the pressure on the recruitment team to get the majority right.
 

SoCal_Wolf

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I agree, not every transfer will work out, but when your model is sell to buy, you cant afford to bring players that you will actually lose money on. It puts the pressure on the recruitment team to get the majority right.
Right. And we’ve hit on some good ones, too (RAN, Sa, Neto, Kilman). BUT, that also means that we can’t just bring in any old player just so you can avoid being accused of faffing about. They have their carefully researched targets with probably some precise valuations on future value—they will not overpay for anyone. Moral of the story: let’s give them to do due diligence and get the best deals.
 

Mugwump

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Right. And we’ve hit on some good ones, too (RAN, Sa, Neto, Kilman). BUT, that also means that we can’t just bring in any old player just so you can avoid being accused of faffing about. They have their carefully researched targets with probably some precise valuations on future value—they will not overpay for anyone. Moral of the story: let’s give them to do due diligence and get the best deals.

Tbh, they should be well prepared anyway. Its not like they would have just started looking for players when the season ended. I dont think anyone should be making any excuses for us not having players in in the next 2 or 3 days. They have had plenty of time.
 

reanswolf

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You have quite list there of players who were brought in to strengthen the side. Whether they all worked out to your satisfaction is irrelevant to me.
The point we were discussing is you said we didn’t strengthen at all……but we did.
And the proof is that they are all mostly on the payroll.
But all you are saying is that we strengthened and that is proved by the fact that they bought players. You are failing to assess whether on balance, with departing players, we were strengthened overall.
 

Fenrir_

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Really?
Silva, Cutrone, Hoever & Semedo immediately spring to mind.

There's a big difference between a player not proving to be worth what you paid and overpaying for a player at the time you sign them, and the only one of those you've listed that you can really say has been a waste of the money spent is Cutrone

But we didn't overpay for Cutrone (a 21 year old with a full Italy cap to his name) or Semedo (26 year old, top class full back playing for an elite club and country). Maybe we did a bit for Silva and Hoever but no more than when we shelled out £24m for two Portuguese lads who'd barely kicked a ball in professional football. But because one of them has been a huge success, nobody mentions the fact that we laid out an eye popping £24m on Neto and Jordao, two players that nobody had heard of and had about 200 minutes of professional football between them
 

old wittonian

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There's a big difference between a player not proving to be worth what you paid and overpaying for a player at the time you sign them, and the only one of those you've listed that you can really say has been a waste of the money spent is Cutrone

But we didn't overpay for Cutrone (a 21 year old with a full Italy cap to his name) or Semedo (26 year old, top class full back playing for an elite club and country). Maybe we did a bit for Silva and Hoever but no more than when we shelled out £24m for two Portuguese lads who'd barely kicked a ball in professional football. But because one of them has been a huge success, nobody mentions the fact that we laid out an eye popping £24m on Neto and Jordao, two players that nobody had heard of and had about 200 minutes of professional football between them
I thought Neto and Jordao cost around £18 million combined.
 

Wombourne Wolf

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Nixon (I know) has linked us to another Burnley player this morning. Not sure who it is as it's behind a paywall.... Wouldn't mind McNeil though... It's been very quiet so far about him.
 

JadeWolf

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Connor Roberts.
He’s decent but he’s a RB/RWB isn’t he, and my question would be is he better than Semedo/Jonny?

As mentioned above I’d have a look at McNeil but he did have a really poor year last year. Wouldn’t want to spend more than £13m-£14m on him.
 

AndyWolves

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I'd have Charlie Taylor over Connor Roberts every day of the week.
 

The Wolf Of Wombourne

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Bruno knows very well that clubs don’t always have a good window but that doesn’t mean Wolves treated him badly.
Yes, Jeff would have the final say on incoming players but I don’t think that Bruno is kept out of the loop.
We haven’t had a good window since 2018, that’s the issue.

Also Jeff having say on players is also a problem, what qualifies him to judge the value and ability of players, his football knowledge isn’t there to be making decisions around a top half premier league side!
 
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