The buck stops with Jeff Shi @ WWFC

[old wittonian]

Lowest paid manager in the league

Dread to think what the next appointment will be . I quite liked Lage but surely he has to go immediately if we are to have any hope of keeping our better players

What is his alleged wage please.

 

[hollo]

3 million

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Wasn’t there talk of Lage going back to Benfica a few weeks ago?

 

[Hot Fuss]

Can't blame Lage? My ****! Yesterday was the culmination of three utterly woeful games when our "tactical genius" made the same mistakes over and over again. Totally on him.

What mistakes have been made over and over again over the last three games? Genuinely interested to know.

 

[WickedWolfie]

What mistakes have been made over and over again over the last three games? Genuinely interested to know.

Without trying hard: Hwang playing wide. Fabio taken off when others were far worse.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Without trying hard: Hwang playing wide. Fabio taken off when others were far worse.

Didn’t Hwang start more centrally yesterday?

Actually take the point about Fabio, but it’s scraping the barrel to suggest taking him off was our main issue.

Bored of it to be honest, but how folk can’t see that failing to strengthen at centre back, centre midfield and up front in four ****ing years is our main problem is beyond me.

 

[SuperGran]

Can't blame Lage? My ****! Yesterday was the culmination of three utterly woeful games when our "tactical genius" made the same mistakes over and over again. Totally on him.

And yet already got 4 more points than the whole of last season with a much weaker side.

 

[Charlie176]

Lage has always modelled his teams with 4 at the back …to drop Coady (who’s not a CH ) would damage the Wolves brand , you can’t give a manager limited budget and limited say on who is purchased to be able to give the performance that we all want …..with the current crop of players say bar 3 he is trying to get them to perform but it’s out of reach with some of these guys unfortunately….where I sympathise given the above factors , can you expect to exceed expectations every week ?

 

[RMNottm]

No investment in the Prem results in one thing, players age, tire and get analysed.

Fosun are depreciating their investment massively. Noone whats clothes, esports or anything else associated with what we saw yesterday.

 

[Mugwump]

And yet already got 4 more points than the whole of last season with a much weaker side.

The side isnt weaker than last season.

 

[Wolf316]

3 million

According to The Scum.

 

[Mugwump]

Didn’t Hwang start more centrally yesterday?

Actually take the point about Fabio, but it’s scraping the barrel to suggest taking him off was our main issue.

Bored of it to be honest, but how folk can’t see that failing to strengthen at centre back, centre midfield and up front in four ****ing years is our main problem is beyond me.

Its not all on Lage, but plenty of it is at the same time. Its pretty obvious they either arent getting his gameplan, or they dont want to play for him. 9 losses in 14 games is pretty much relegation form. Whatever he is doing, its not working. You cant argue against the results ( and lets not forget the standard of performances ). They make things pretty black and white

And i've been saying it all season, if he isnt getting backed, he should have walked. If he's happy to be a puppet for Fosun then he deserves what he gets. Any manager with integrity would walk away from a job he is trying to do with one hand tied behind his back. The lack of investment is down to Fosun. Thats another thing thats black and white.

 

[SuperGran]

The side isnt weaker than last season.

Nuno had a fit and firing Jimenez until November. Neto wasn’t injured until the end of the season
Bruno hasn’t had a fit and firing Jimenez he hasn’t had Neto either.
Semedo podence boly have all spent considerable time out of the squad
Traore replaced by a kid who hasn’t played
I would say it’s considerably weaker

 

[Mugwump]

Nuno had a fit and firing Jimenez until November. Neto wasn’t injured until the end of the season
Bruno hasn’t had a fit and firing Jimenez he hasn’t had Neto either.
Semedo podence boly have all spent considerable time out of the squad
Traore replaced by a kid who hasn’t played
I would say it’s considerably weaker

The side isnt weaker than last season. You could easily make the same injury claims for Nuno and he was also dealing with still playing in a pandemic. Podence, Boly, Jimenez and Jonny were all injured for spells under Nuno. He had Raul for 10 games and also lost Jota. Neto will have been fit to play for more than 10 games for Lage.

Lets not also forget he also bought in Hwang, Sa, Trincao, Mosquera, Chiquinho, How is that weaker? He also chose to loan out MGW and we had players to offset Traore, who wasnt really a regular under Lage anyway. Lage has had plenty of options, he just hasnt used all of them

This squad just isnt weaker. Both managers have had things to deal. Injuries are part and parcel of the game. You just deal with it.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Its not all on Lage, but plenty of it is at the same time. Its pretty obvious they either arent getting his gameplan, or they dont want to play for him. 9 losses in 14 games is pretty much relegation form. Whatever he is doing, its not working. You cant argue against the results ( and lets not forget the standard of performances ). They make things pretty black and white

And i've been saying it all season, if he isnt getting backed, he should have walked. If he's happy to be a puppet for Fosun then he deserves what he gets. Any manager with integrity would walk away from a job he is trying to do with one hand tied behind his back. The lack of investment is down to Fosun. Thats another thing thats black and white.

You say “they either aren’t getting his game plan or they don’t want to play for him”. Option 3… they just aren’t very good.

As Iv mentioned it’s been four ****ing years since central defence, central midfield or the front line has been improved on.

Also “any manager with integrity would walk away” is a load of *******s, but you already know that.

 

[Hot Fuss]

The side isnt weaker than last season. You could easily make the same injury claims for Nuno and he was also dealing with still playing in a pandemic. Podence, Boly, Jimenez and Jonny were all injured for spells under Nuno. He had Raul for 10 games and also lost Jota. Neto will have been fit to play for more than 10 games for Lage.

Lets not also forget he also bought in Hwang, Sa, Trincao, Mosquera, Chiquinho, How is that weaker? He also chose to loan out MGW and we had players to offset Traore, who wasnt really a regular under Lage anyway. Lage has had plenty of options, he just hasnt used all of them

This squad just isnt weaker. Both managers have had things to deal. Injuries are part and parcel of the game. You just deal with it.

Hwang, Trincao, Mosquera and Chiquinho.

Don’t understand how we aren’t top 4 with that level of recruitment.

 

[Mugwump]

You say “they either aren’t getting his game plan or they don’t want to play for him”. Option 3… they just aren’t very good.

As Iv mentioned it’s been four ****ing years since central defence, central midfield or the front line has been improved on.

Also “any manager with integrity would walk away” is a load of *******s, but you already know that.

But they are good players. They have all proven they are good players. There is no option 3.

And yep, if he had integrity he would walk if he isnt getting the backing. He's been mouthy enough in the press about it, he was clearly expecting players and he didnt get them. Why would anyone with any integrity stay around and let their reputation get ruined by failure thats out of his control. He's basically a yes man and a puppet if he tolerates it. I've got no sympathy for him whatsoever if he doesnt stand up for himself.

 

[SanFranWolf]

Shi is merely following the Fosun plan. Given he never says anything to the fans, I doubt he cares about what anyone other than his boss thinks.

We’re owned by a business who are very likely under pressure from the Chinese government to keep investment (and their UK profile) as low as possible.

Fosun put money into the club at the start of their tenure and have been banking on that being able to keep us in safe, mid table mediocrity ever since. Lucky for them and us, that money has gone a long way.

This squad came to the end of it’s cycle under Nuno two years ago.

Other than the odd outlier, the football is so poor it’s almost unwatchable.

Fosun are at a very obvious cross roads, they have to put money into the club this summer otherwise there is a very real risk we could be in a relegation fight next season.

If they can bring in the players to repeat their trick and start another 4 year cycle, then fair play to them. If they won’t or can’t, I hope they sell us to someone who will.

 

[Mugwump]

Hwang, Trincao, Mosquera and Chiquinho.

Don’t understand how we aren’t top 4 with that level of recruitment.

Thats not the argument. The previous poster was saying the squad is considerably weaker. It isnt. Your boy Bruno seemed happy enough with their signings. He loves the incredibly ineffectual Hwang.

 

[Hot Fuss]

But they are good players. They have all proven they are good players. There is no option 3.

And yep, if he had integrity he would walk if he isnt getting the backing. He's been mouthy enough in the press about it, he was clearly expecting players and he didnt get them. Why would anyone with any integrity stay around and let their reputation get ruined by failure thats out of his control. He's basically a yes man and a puppet if he tolerates it. I've got no sympathy for him whatsoever if he doesnt stand up for himself.

Trincao proven? Hwang? Is Fabio proven? Is Raul still a top level player? Is Saiss a top half premier league player? Dendoncker?

Ok muggy, I’m sure all managers would just walk away from a contract worth 1000s a week, no doubt you’ll be able to give me several examples of premier league managers who’ve done this in the last 10 years.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Thats not the argument. The previous poster was saying the squad is considerably weaker. It isnt. Your boy Bruno seemed happy enough with their signings. He loves the incredibly ineffectual Hwang.

Course he loves Hwang, picks him over some really superb forwards doesnt he? Must be a real problem with all the goal machines in our squad.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Posters decrying the loss of Thelwell are barking up the wrong tree. This was the DoF who secured us Dendonker (half a season of reasonable quality), Cutrone, and in previous years the likes of Saville, Coady as a midfielder etc. Sellars still has a lot to prove but I’m not dreaming of Thelwell’s return from Everton.

I do think the UEFA FFP sanctions have impacted us. Other posters who are ITK have said that we are looking to be busy this close season. If we are then that would be great (and needed). I understand the model they are trying to put in place, it’s not a secret and it’s a risk.

Midfield has been the biggest weakness in terms of strengthening, we have added and changed forwards over the last 3 years - some good, some bad. We’ve also added wingbacks, remember when we had no cover whatsoever for Jonny or Doc. Our Centre Backs have been added to with Kilman coming through, Toti and possibly Mosquera. If you look at most clubs outside of the top 6 most do not have strength in depth.

Whilst Fosun have got things wrong on occasion and could do better and Manager choice is one of them. They’ve got one good one out of 5. Admittedly in that first season they had Lopetgui lined up which could have worked. To me Lage has lost the plot, he is a number 2 or a u23/youth coach who can’t adapt his ideas and style to suit senior first teamers. With youngsters you need to be more directive as they are learning the game but with first teamers you need to give them a framework so that they can express themselves. It looks to me that he is constraining the team with his structures, it works when the opposition are compliant but doesn’t if they don’t.

 

[Mugwump]

Trincao proven? Hwang? Is Fabio proven? Is Raul still a top level player? Is Saiss a top half premier league player? Dendoncker?

Ok muggy, I’m sure all managers would just walk away from a contract worth 1000s a week, no doubt you’ll be able to give me several examples of premier league managers who’ve done this in the last 10 years.

You are just speaking with hindsight now in terms of Trincao, Hwang, and Raul. I doubt you would have been bagging Saiss that much until he came back from AFCON either. They squad probably isnt any better, but its not worse.

Your boy is beginning to fail and you cant handle it. If you want examples you go and look for them yourself. I just cant see why anyone worth their salt would stay in a job they are being set up to fail in. Who knows, Bruno could be the first. The longer he sends out teams serving up the tripe we have witnessed lately the worse his reputation gets.

 

[Mugwump]

Course he loves Hwang, picks him over some really superb forwards doesnt he? Must be a real problem with all the goal machines in our squad.

Or is it this attacking genius of a manager not cut out to get us scoring goals?

You keep trying to deflect the blame from him, maybe he's the issue.

 

[Hot Fuss]

You are just speaking with hindsight now in terms of Trincao, Hwang, and Raul. I doubt you would have been bagging Saiss that much until he came back from AFCON either. They squad probably isnt any better, but its not worse.

Your boy is beginning to fail and you cant handle it. If you want examples you go and look for them yourself. I just cant see why anyone worth their salt would stay in a job they are being set up to fail in. Who knows, Bruno could be the first. The longer he sends out teams serving up the tripe we have witnessed lately the worse his reputation gets.

He really isn’t “my boy” muggy! Nice chap apparently but it really won’t effect my life if he gets the boot and if there is someone out there who can do better I’m all for bringing them in.

You say I’m using hindsight. I’m not. I moaned like **** in the summer about the recruitment, loads did. I said Lage wasn’t being backed in the summer and we’d do well to finish 12th, loads did.

Let’s use Saiss as an example. I like the lad and he’s done great for the club but do you think it’s acceptable that after 4 years in the premier league he’s starting games at centre back?

I love Raul, but did you not thing with his terrible injury it was always going to be a big risk to rely on him for goals this season? Loads said it in the summer.

Do you think that after 4 years having Donk and a 35 year old Moutinho as our only senior midfielders behind Neves shows good recruitment? Tons of posters said it in the summer.

I described the squad after the Leeds game as “limited”. You jumped all over me saying I was wrong, fair enough it’s your opinion. I don’t agree with it.

The issues we are having, and let’s not forget we are still 8th, are down to owners who are more interested in esports, balance sheets, sending kids to grasshoppers and squeezing ticket prices than actually improving the first team.

 

[Timberwolf]

All true but his sources of cash to stump up are limited to those generated by the club itself…ie he cannot simply turn to the shareholder and say we need 200 million to improve the team and press for top six . For whatever reason ( covid, CCP, Fosuns investment limits, war in Ukraine, or other unknown) we have been told time and time again that the shareholder will not be a source of further capital….indeed they have said they are willing and would like to allow others to invest . So if you know of someone or have 200 million to invest in a football club you can speak to Jeff. This is the FFP that limits us …Fosuns Financial Plan

I’d like to know where Wolves, a contemporaneous Championship club having a purple patch, will find a Billionaire owner quite happy to spunk £200m on a whim.
Otherwise, Fosun are perfect for us. Even if they’re not willing to spend spend spend, they’re still our safety net and that fact shouldn’t be ignored.
I might be wrong but haven’t Fosun written off the club debt owed to them?

 

[Hot Fuss]

Or is it this attacking genius of a manager not cut out to get us scoring goals?

You keep trying to deflect the blame from him, maybe he's the issue.

Since Doc and Jota left we struggled for goals under Nuno and struggled for goals under Bruno.

Maybe it’s the players?

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

He really isn’t “my boy” muggy! Nice chap apparently but it really won’t effect my life if he gets the boot and if there is someone out there who can do better I’m all for bringing them in.

You say I’m using hindsight. I’m not. I moaned like **** in the summer about the recruitment, loads did. I said Lage wasn’t being backed in the summer and we’d do well to finish 12th, loads did.

Let’s use Saiss as an example. I like the lad and he’s done great for the club but do you think it’s acceptable that after 4 years in the premier league he’s starting games at centre back?

I love Raul, but did you not thing with his terrible injury it was always going to be a big risk to rely on him for goals this season? Loads said it in the summer.

Do you think that after 4 years having Donk and a 35 year old Moutinho as our only senior midfielders behind Neves shows good recruitment? Tons of posters said it in the summer.

I described the squad after the Leeds game as “limited”. You jumped all over me saying I was wrong, fair enough it’s your opinion. I don’t agree with it.

The issues we are having, and let’s not forget we are still 8th, are down to owners who are more interested in esports, balance sheets, sending kids to grasshoppers and squeezing ticket prices than actually improving the first team.

I think it's a combination of the squad needing investment, in all areas, and the manager not being up to it as well.

The spine of the team hasn't changed since our first season back, they aren't getting any younger and Raul just isn't the same player, and the wider players just aren't cutting it for me either, someone mentioned that Cav and Costa were better than what we have now and in a sense they are right, I'd take prime Cav and Costa over Hwang and Donk playing wide!

Bruno is odd, there were spells where we looked like we could be on to something and I was calling for him to get some backing, but it's all just gone a bit wrong, throwing Hoever under the bus was wrong and I think that could have been a pivotal moment for the players, I don't think his man management is up to it

 

[Mugwump]

He really isn’t “my boy” muggy! Nice chap apparently but it really won’t effect my life if he gets the boot and if there is someone out there who can do better I’m all for bringing them in.

You say I’m using hindsight. I’m not. I moaned like **** in the summer about the recruitment, loads did. I said Lage wasn’t being backed in the summer and we’d do well to finish 12th, loads did.

Let’s use Saiss as an example. I like the lad and he’s done great for the club but do you think it’s acceptable that after 4 years in the premier league he’s starting games at centre back?

I love Raul, but did you not thing with his terrible injury it was always going to be a big risk to rely on him for goals this season? Loads said it in the summer.

Do you think that after 4 years having Donk and a 35 year old Moutinho as our only senior midfielders behind Neves shows good recruitment? Tons of posters said it in the summer.

I described the squad after the Leeds game as “limited”. You jumped all over me saying I was wrong, fair enough it’s your opinion. I don’t agree with it.

The issues we are having, and let’s not forget we are still 8th, are down to owners who are more interested in esports, balance sheets, sending kids to grasshoppers and squeezing ticket prices than actually improving the first team.

You are turning a debate about is the squad weaker than last season around because you cant win that argument. Its not weaker. Its also not limited in terms of its ability. The squad has plenty of talent in it. What you are saying is a different argument altogether because i dont see anyone saying our recruitment has been good enough. Myself, i've been saying it hasnt been good enough since our second season back. Its not a new thing.

Raul is an issue, but maybe its not all on him either. We lack goals because we dont create enough. Its not all on Raul. Maybe its on the manager and how he likes us to play. Bruno should have insisted we sign players if we needed them. He

Our issue stem from a number of things. Fosun and Bruno are the big issues for me. We have a board who arent investing, and a manager who looks like he has lost the playing group. Until they get sorted we arent going anywhere because you cant sort out under performing players when the people above them arent doing their jobs effectively either. And your boy is a part of that.

 

[Mugwump]

Since Doc and Jota left we struggled for goals under Nuno and struggled for goals under Bruno.

Maybe it’s the players?

They are partly to blame. Dont think anyone is trying to say otherwise are they? They still didnt behave in this manner for Nuno though. They played poorly, but team spirit wasnt an issue on the whole.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

A few years ago, Mendes was ‘getting us’ Neves, Jota, Moutinho, Patricio, Jimenez, Neto and Boly.

Last 3 years, our recruitment team, and I include Mendes within that, are getting us Hwang, Trincao, Silva and co.

There are a myriad of reasons as to why things don’t feel great at present, but ultimately you cannot hide from the fact that Mendes gave us the biggest leg up possible a few years ago with absolute dream recruitment and since then, either deliberately or unwittingly, our recruitment has been largely shambolic.

The only way we are going to move forward again is if we get cosier again with Uncle Jorge. It’s actuality scary how poor our transfer policy has been since we reduced the reliance on him.

 

[Mugwump]

A few years ago, Mendes was ‘getting us’ Neves, Jota, Moutinho, Patricio, Jimenez, Neto and Boly.

Last 3 years, our recruitment team, and I include Mendes within that, are getting us Hwang, Trincao, Silva and co.

There are a myriad of reasons as to why things don’t feel great at present, but ultimately you cannot hide from the fact that Mendes gave us the biggest leg up possible a few years ago with absolute dream recruitment and since then, either deliberately or unwittingly, our recruitment has been largely shambolic.

The only way we are going to move forward again is if we get cosier again with Uncle Jorge. It’s actuality scary how poor our transfer policy has been since we reduced the reliance on him.

Mendes is an asset, but i've always thought we are hopeless without him. We get the odd one like Kilman who comes good, but apart from that we dont get any top talent without him.

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

A few years ago, Mendes was ‘getting us’ Neves, Jota, Moutinho, Patricio, Jimenez, Neto and Boly.

Last 3 years, our recruitment team, and I include Mendes within that, are getting us Hwang, Trincao, Silva and co.

There are a myriad of reasons as to why things don’t feel great at present, but ultimately you cannot hide from the fact that Mendes gave us the biggest leg up possible a few years ago with absolute dream recruitment and since then, either deliberately or unwittingly, our recruitment has been largely shambolic.

The only way we are going to move forward again is if we get cosier again with Uncle Jorge. It’s actuality scary how poor our transfer policy has been since we reduced the reliance on him.

Agree absolutely with this above and as the other thread saying Jeff Shi will back Fabio Silva as it's his baby. He'll live and die by that decision to buy him for £35m from Porto. When Fabio played for the U23 at training ground in past Jeff Shi has been there to watch him play even for just 45 mins.
The transfer big bucks certainly stop from Fosun after Jeff Shi bought Fabio Silva from Porto in 2020

If Fosun don't trust Jeff anymore with big transfer buys we have no hope until he is replaced as WWFC Chairman or CEO

 

[John de Wolf's hairdryer]

Gone are the days of the great "football managers" like Stan Cullis and Sir Alex Ferguson having total control over a football club in the top flight.
Bruno or Nuno like many "football coaches" not "football managers" in the PL have little say about the recruitment and buying and selling of players anymore.

Jeff Shi after getting rid of other managerial positions ie Laurie Dalrymple and others in the past 3 years is in total control nowadays of all matters at WWFC... At the end of the day the buck stops here with him.

I'm not a fan of Jeff (think he's a control freak and, as you point out, he doesn't have a football background to call on), but ultimately Jeff is just doing what he is being asked to do by Guo. The money has dried up. IMV that's because the Chinese Communist Party has stopped Chinese companies investing in British assets due to deteriorating Anglo-Chinese relations since 2017, and Guo isn't going to go against the dictat of the Party. But Shi is "just following orders", so it's not appropriate to lay all responsibility at his door.

 

[SuperGran]

Lets not also forget he also bought in Hwang, Sa, Trincao, Mosquera, Chiquinho,

Apart from sa how are any of them good enough
Whilst Bruno isn’t perfect he hasn’t been given any quality players in two transfer Windows?

 

[reanswolf]

He really isn’t “my boy” muggy! Nice chap apparently but it really won’t effect my life if he gets the boot and if there is someone out there who can do better I’m all for bringing them in.

You say I’m using hindsight. I’m not. I moaned like **** in the summer about the recruitment, loads did. I said Lage wasn’t being backed in the summer and we’d do well to finish 12th, loads did.

Let’s use Saiss as an example. I like the lad and he’s done great for the club but do you think it’s acceptable that after 4 years in the premier league he’s starting games at centre back?

I love Raul, but did you not thing with his terrible injury it was always going to be a big risk to rely on him for goals this season? Loads said it in the summer.

Do you think that after 4 years having Donk and a 35 year old Moutinho as our only senior midfielders behind Neves shows good recruitment? Tons of posters said it in the summer.

I described the squad after the Leeds game as “limited”. You jumped all over me saying I was wrong, fair enough it’s your opinion. I don’t agree with it.

The issues we are having, and let’s not forget we are still 8th, are down to owners who are more interested in esports, balance sheets, sending kids to grasshoppers and squeezing ticket prices than actually improving the first team.

Bang on.

In answer the original question, I am afraid Jeff Shi as the Captain of the Ship has a hell of a lot to answer for.
This collapse / malaise has been totally self-inflicted.

 

[reanswolf]

I'm not a fan of Jeff (think he's a control freak and, as you point out, he doesn't have a football background to call on), but ultimately Jeff is just doing what he is being asked to do by Guo. The money has dried up. IMV that's because the Chinese Communist Party has stopped Chinese companies investing in British assets due to deteriorating Anglo-Chinese relations since 2017, and Guo isn't going to go against the dictat of the Party. But Shi is "just following orders", so it's not appropriate to lay all responsibility at his door.

Very true, but its the way the money has been spent and on which positions, rather than an absence or lack of money.

 

[Oh Robbie Robie]

I see the same old cobblers is being spouted yet again. We have been safe from relegation for weeks now. Would you rather be in Everton's position today?

We have been told that we have to do things a different way than to simply throw money at it. It requires understanding and patience as we bring through some younger players.

PS. I get the frustration at missing out on a European place.

 

[Stoichkov]

The approach to Bruno sums up the low cost approach to wolves by fosun

Sick of them ****s

Sick of them?!!!!

While it’s frustrating right now surely

Life with Fosun > live without Fosun

 

[Mugwump]

Apart from sa how are any of them good enough
Whilst Bruno isn’t perfect he hasn’t been given any quality players in two transfer Windows?

I think our recruitment has been pretty ordinary for a long time.