Staying @ Wolves - Traore or Trincao or Barca / Sporting Swap Deals??

[Perton Wolf]

So we have paid 5m for 20%. I don't think we'll see us get our money back

Indeed. Poor signing and a waste of money in wages to boot.

 

[Flump]

On his way up? His value had dropped since Barca paid Braga a fortune for him and it continues to drop, Barca desperately wanted him off their books and they saw this starstruck mug who doesn't know football called Jeff Shi come along. 5.1 million + wages is absurd period, Jeff was totally hoodwinked by the sell-on fee, why does he think Barcelona even offered that? Barca know they're not getting their money back so they found a sucker to pay them 5 million of it and cover his wages for a season, then Jeffrey went ahead and gave them Traore for nothing and killed our season just to rub the salt in, what a mug.

On his way up in terms of value - as a 21 year old Portuguese international, yes he's very likely to have a transfer fee of over £25m at some point in the next few years, given recent/modern transfers. It's likely that the sell on fee was done as a way for us to effectively loan them £5m for when they needed it for FFP most.

Try to calm down a bit. It's not anywhere near as bad a deal as you seem to think, notwithstanding the fact that it didn't work out on the pitch.

What do you think a fair loan fee would be for a 21 year old Portugal international? All clubs in that kind of situation would pay one, as the selling club doesn't want to let a player go on a try-before-you-buy basis with no benefit if the sale doesn't happen.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

On his way up in terms of value - as a 21 year old Portuguese international, yes he's very likely to have a transfer fee of over £25m at some point in the next few years, given recent/modern transfers. It's likely that the sell on fee was done as a way for us to effectively loan them £5m for when they needed it for FFP most.

Try to calm down a bit. It's not anywhere near as bad a deal as you seem to think, notwithstanding the fact that it didn't work out on the pitch.

What do you think a fair loan fee would be for a 21 year old Portugal international? All clubs in that kind of situation would pay one, as the selling club doesn't want to let a player go on a try-before-you-buy basis with no benefit if the sale doesn't happen.

It wasn't actually a loan fee either, it would have been knocked off the transfer fee.

As for his current transfer value it's highly unlikely to be anything more than £15M atm. Basically had 1 good season in his career, also is 23 this season so hardly a kid

 

[Jamwolf]

Eye watering stuff with Trincao. 5 mil bought us the right to buy him for another 25 mil, or 20% of his next transfer.
I actually think that we'll shake out of this fine. He has serious talent.
The real kick in the teeth will be if Trincao stays at Barcelona for the next 15 years and becomes the next Messi in the meantime !

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Eye watering stuff with Trincao. 5 mil bought us the right to buy him for another 25 mil, or 20% of his next transfer.
I actually think that we'll shake out of this fine. He has serious talent.
The real kick in the teeth will be if Trincao stays at Barcelona for the next 15 years and becomes the next Messi in the meantime !

Think Messi had his first Ballon D'Or by roughly the same age. Time slightly ticking Francisco..

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Eye watering stuff with Trincao. 5 mil bought us the right to buy him for another 25 mil, or 20% of his next transfer.
I actually think that we'll shake out of this fine. He has serious talent.
The real kick in the teeth will be if Trincao stays at Barcelona for the next 15 years and becomes the next Messi in the meantime !

You know I think he might. Little known fact but Messi hadn't done anything by the time he was 22!
Oh hang on.

 

[woop woop barmy army]

que trincao and vithina to be portugals best players in the next 3 years and offical melt down on here.

 

[WickedWolfie]

que trincao and vithina to be portugals best players in the next 3 years and offical melt down on here.

When all of the same folk who were saying that they were both crap will then be all over the club like a rash for not having signed both of them....

 

[woop woop barmy army]

When all of the same folk who were saying that they were both crap will then be all over the club like a rash for not having signed both of them....

Correct.

But if we’re being honest. Neither player did enough to warrant signing them

 

[Wolf316]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1544279907894804482

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1544279907894804482

We could do with Raul and Adama reigniting the partnership of assists and goals they had a couple of seasons ago

 

[WolfLing]

We could do with Raul and Adama reigniting the partnership of assists and goals they had a couple of seasons ago

To do that, we really need Adama playing as a traditional winger on the right and Jimenez predominantly playing down the middle.

From last season, it seems Lage prefers inverted, inside wide players, with the width coming from the full/wingbacks and a roaming centre forward, involved in the link play.

I really want to know how we are going to set up next season, as I think it will tell us loads about who is likely to stay and who will be moved on.

Based on who is here at the moment, 4411 could actually work well, with Traore and Neto as traditional wingers, Raul down the middle and any of Silva, Hwang, MGW or Podence playing just off him. Just need to hope that setup can outscore the opposition with the centre backs we've got not ideally suited to playing a back 4.

 

[Minimalist]

To do that, we really need Adama playing as a traditional winger on the right and Jimenez predominantly playing down the middle.

From last season, it seems Lage prefers inverted, inside wide players, with the width coming from the full/wingbacks and a roaming centre forward, involved in the link play.

I really want to know how we are going to set up next season, as I think it will tell us loads about who is likely to stay and who will be moved on.

Based on who is here at the moment, 4411 could actually work well, with Traore and Neto as traditional wingers, Raul down the middle and any of Silva, Hwang, MGW or Podence playing just off him. Just need to hope that setup can outscore the opposition with the centre backs we've got not ideally suited to playing a back 4.

I struggle to see us move to a back 4 without at least one new cb plus an out and out physical dm.
IF we were hell bent on making that switch it seems very odd we passed on Palhinha.

 

[bod101]

From last season, it seems Lage prefers inverted, inside wide players, with the width coming from the full/wingbacks and a roaming centre forward, involved in the link play.

I keep seeing this about inverted wingers, but from my memory every time we seemed to have players way out wide knocking crosses into an empty 6 yard box, very very little inverted play.

 

[WolfLing]

I keep seeing this about inverted wingers, but from my memory every time we seemed to have players way out wide knocking crosses into an empty 6 yard box, very very little inverted play.

Very little forward play in general to be fair!

I don’t recall many Adama style runs to the byline. The few crosses tended to come from the wingbacks and as you say, there was no one there!

 

[Howler]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545523464496463872

Wow, even lower than my 15 million evaluation.

Jeff Shi clowned by Barca again, completely starstruck.

All up we dumped 7-8 million into Trincao for one loan season of him mostly sitting on the bench, Jeffrey you're being played for a mug.

 

[WickedWolfie]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545523464496463872

Wow, even lower than my 15 million evaluation.

Jeff Shi clowned by Barca again, completely starstruck.

All up we dumped 7-8 million into Trincao for one loan season of him mostly sitting on the bench, Jeffrey you're being played for a mug.

All this post proves is your innumeracy.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545523464496463872

Wow, even lower than my 15 million evaluation.

Jeff Shi clowned by Barca again, completely starstruck.

All up we dumped 7-8 million into Trincao for one loan season of him mostly sitting on the bench, Jeffrey you're being played for a mug.

Best take a look at the posts on the transfer thread about the reason for this. It’s less about what he is worth, and more about reducing what they need to pay us now.

 

[Chris H]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547901312913657858

 

[Chris H]

Just what we need.

A player who’s all about explosive pace with a hamstring problem and less than 12 months on his contract.

Let’s hope it isn’t serious or we’ll no longer have a money from a saleable asset or a useable player available to us.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Wonder whether it is a misnomer, I am fine with him leaving now especially if it helps keep MGW. No room at the inn for him at Barca now with Raphinha & Dembele back though.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Convenient story for explaining why he’s not seen in training or pre season games…

Get shut, this is getting tiresome now

 

[those were the days]

Odd we didn’t swap Traore for Trincao, who we could have sold easily enough for 15m plus or kept as he has decent potential imo. I thought the two deals were closely tied so Barcelona would have been forced to buy Traore if we triggered Trincao but maybe I’m wrong there.

It’s also a ball dropped we didn’t insist Traore sign a 1-year extension before allowing him out on loan, which I remember suggesting at the time. Given how much he wanted to go back to Barcelona, I reckon he would have done.

Be interesting to see what happens over the next week or so. The 10m figure planted in the press is clearly to try and smoke out interest and get a bidding war started and be surprised if Wolves weren’t shooting for more. Erik Lamela was sold for 20m with 12 months left on his contract last summer.

I still hold out hope we can use Traore as part of a player plus cash swap deal for someone like Guedes but we’ll have to see

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

Just what we need.

A player who’s all about explosive pace with a hamstring problem and less than 12 months on his contract.

Let’s hope it isn’t serious or we’ll no longer have a money from a saleable asset or a useable player available to us.

Couldn’t make it up could you

 

[VancouverWolf]

Convenient story for explaining why he’s not seen in training or pre season games…

Get shut, this is getting tiresome now

Convenient……..hmmmmmm, kinda my first thoughts too.
I was thinking maybe a pre transfer medical.

 

[Shergar]

I bet they were wearing masks to hide their sniggering at Wolves.

 

[Shergar]

considering he changed his Twitter profile within milliseconds of joining them, he hasn’t changed it back.
He will be joining them on a free/pre contract meanwhile Barca still go about splashing the 8 figure transfer fees on players they ‘couldn’t’ afford previously.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

View attachment 28940
considering he changed his Twitter profile within milliseconds of joining them, he hasn’t changed it back.
He will be joining them on a free/pre contract meanwhile Barca still go about splashing the 8 figure transfer fees on players they ‘couldn’t’ afford previously.

They're signing players without being able to register them until another has gone out. Absolutely ridiculous. I hope it comes back to bite them but the reality is it won't. They're far too big and powerful.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

View attachment 28939
I bet they were wearing masks to hide their sniggering at Wolves.

If he joins them on a free, then there should be some reckoning as far as I’m concerned. Traore would be persona non grata at Wolves with a few unflattering stories leaked, all future deals with Barca would be blocked, and Mendes would be told he either makes good or he is now nothing more than the agent of a few players on our books and Wolves are no longer part of his circus.

 

[Minimalist]

If he joins them on a free, then there should be some reckoning as far as I’m concerned. Traore would be persona non grata at Wolves with a few unflattering stories leaked, all future deals with Barca would be blocked, and Mendes would be told he either makes good or he is now nothing more than the agent of a few players on our books and Wolves are no longer part of his circus.

Slightly smacks of “cutting your nose off to spite your face”! But I understand your feelings.

If we’ve got wind that this is the plan and he is running his contract down in order to go on a free next summer; I’d certainly be inclined to not give him any game time and have him apart from the first team.

However I suspect/hope that this is not the case. All evidence points towards Adama being a great lad and a genuine decent person... Barcelona fc is where the suspicion of evil and cynicism arises from!!

 

[VancouverWolf]

I always thought the Traore/Barca ‘loan’ was more than that and thought it was a done deal. Somehow it didn’t have the ‘feel’ of a normal loan. There was a lot of hoopla around it.

A lot of effort and time went into that deal……both clubs, agents, lawyers, accountants etc.
I can’t see anyone trying to to a sly end run around all the signatures on the deal. Its no way to run a legit business, especially a highly visible one.Legally it would be a fraudulent conspiracy and could only to serous litigation.
So many probable serious negative spin offs.

 

[TF2Wolf]

I always thought the Traore/Barca ‘loan’ was more than that and thought it was a done deal. Somehow it didn’t have the ‘feel’ of a normal loan. There was a lot of hoopla around it.

With the greatest of respect I still can’t understand the position you seem to continue to take on the Traore loan.

Barcelona are clearly unscrupulous and have shown there contempt to pretty much every other club with trying to start up the Super League.

Why you believe they would have acted any different in this case I’m not sure.

All it’s done is to allow them more access to Traore on a day to day basis to convince him that he can join them on a free he just needs to see out his contract.

For what it’s worth I don’t blame Traore it’s his career to do with how he sees fit. I do however think it was naive in the extreme of Sellars and Shi to believe this would have any other outcome.

By all accounts Traore continues to be professional trains well and isn’t kicking up a fuss and presumably would have been exactly the same if we’d have kept him for the second part of last season.

He may have helped us get a number of extra points coming on as an impact sub, financially that would have helped a little more with the additional prize money and who knows could have led to European football.

It was a crazy decision to let him go without some kind of financial penalty if Barcelona chose not to sign him.

 

[Wolf316]

With the greatest of respect I still can’t understand the position you seem to continue to take on the Traore loan.

Barcelona are clearly unscrupulous and have shown there contempt to pretty much every other club with trying to start up the Super League.

Why you believe they would have acted any different in this case I’m not sure.

All it’s done is to allow them more access to Traore on a day to day basis to convince him that he can join them on a free he just needs to see out his contract.

For what it’s worth I don’t blame Traore it’s his career to do with how he sees fit. I do however think it was naive in the extreme of Sellars and Shi to believe this would have any other outcome.

By all accounts Traore continues to be professional trains well and isn’t kicking up a fuss and presumably would have been exactly the same if we’d have kept him for the second part of last season.

He may have helped us get a number of extra points coming on as an impact sub, financially that would have helped a little more with the additional prize money and who knows could have led to European football.

It was a crazy decision to let him go without some kind of financial penalty if Barcelona chose not to sign him.

I’d be surprised if he goes there considering the limited game time he got which isn’t going to change now Dembele is staying.

 

[TF2Wolf]

I’d be surprised if he goes there considering the limited game time he got which isn’t going to change now Dembele is staying.

Maybe although if he doesn’t go there where does he go. His agent seems to have convinced him he belongs at an elite club on elite level wages.

Its clear he isn’t going to extend his contract with us and to allow him to go on loan without a financial penalty if the option to buy wasn’t exercised was naive.

 

[VancouverWolf]

With the greatest of respect I still can’t understand the position you seem to continue to take on the Traore loan.

Barcelona are clearly unscrupulous and have shown there contempt to pretty much every other club with trying to start up the Super League.

Why you believe they would have acted any different in this case I’m not sure.

All it’s done is to allow them more access to Traore on a day to day basis to convince him that he can join them on a free he just needs to see out his contract.

For what it’s worth I don’t blame Traore it’s his career to do with how he sees fit. I do however think it was naive in the extreme of Sellars and Shi to believe this would have any other outcome.

By all accounts Traore continues to be professional trains well and isn’t kicking up a fuss and presumably would have been exactly the same if we’d have kept him for the second part of last season.

He may have helped us get a number of extra points coming on as an impact sub, financially that would have helped a little more with the additional prize money and who knows could have led to European football.

It was a crazy decision to let him go without some kind of financial penalty if Barcelona chose not to sign him.

You ask some questions so I’ll do my best to answer them.

1. I don’t know they are unscrupulous, especially when creating an international deal like this. As I posted earlier, there were so many professionals involved with that deal, you can’t make them look like fools or unethical.
Apart from the bad reputation they’d have for all transfers in the future.

Also, Barca would need Adama, his agent, his lawyers and anybody else in his camp to go along with this fraudulent plan, ( I’m not sure but possibly criminal). Funny that you mention that Adama is a professional but yet think he would premeditatedly cheat and defraud Wolves.

2. Based on what we know, it wasn’t naive of Jeff to allow the deal go through. At that point Wolves didn’t have many Adama options. It was a chance to get £29m in the Wolves coffers…..regardless how slim but still a chance.
Barca probably told Wolves up front they were not prepared to pay for a loan due to Traore’s inconsistent 3.5 season with us. Can’t say I blame them. I certainly wouldn’t pay it. But Xavi probably thought he could train Adam to improve. Seems all 3 parties were sober and all decided to take a chance on the loan.

3. As for how Adama might…..that a BIG might, have helped Wolves secure more points if he’d stayed is total speculation. A chance…that’s all it was at that time…..a very slim chance. So if fans wanted Jeff to take a chance, then it’s rational and logical for him to take a chance on the loan deal.
If a player wants to leave, isn’t performing well and you have a chance to get £29m for him, then why wouldn’t Jeff take that chance. If he hadn’t, Adama might have been really annoyed and so would the Mix.
“ Jeff had a chance last year to sell him but now he walks away free. Boo, Jeff out.”

As for the Super League……yes that was lousy. However, that’s different from transfers. Example, if we sell Neves to United, would we accept their word that they’d honour their contract and pay us over the next 3 years, say? Sure we would.

 

[TF2Wolf]

Hi Vancouver

You make some interesting points.

You say you don’t know they are unscrupulous. Wow!

I’ll give you a couple of examples.
1. De Jong they apparently owe him a shed load of wages reportedly offering him a lot less yet signing new players on a shed load of wages.

2. Trying to create a Super League with an elite few undermining the whole basis of a competitive football league system in place for over a hundred years simply to serve their own purposes because they have continually overspent.

Both these give you an indication of the type of club you’re dealing with and how unscrupulous they are.

You say about Adama and his agent being complicit in what you call a fraudulent plan.
He won’t be the first player to be tapped up and is it criminal for Traore to see out his contract and then to sign for Barcelona? The answer you’ll be looking for there is No it isn’t!!

If you read my post I didn’t say to pay for the loan, I said if they didn’t buy him then a penalty clause could have been inserted with the option to buy, exactly as with the Trincao deal. Surely based on your hypothesis that Xavi thought he could improve Traore this wouldn’t be a problem as he’d be backing his own coaching skills?

Who knows how big the might would be. One thing is for certain is he couldn’t help us to gain extra points whilst playing for Barcelona.

Finally your comment about selling Man Utd and comparing that to the Adama loan, I would hope any contract signed between the clubs would specifically state the terms of sale incurring the purchase price and terms of payment. Thus if not paid there would be legal redress?

Now if you’d have made the comparison that we’d have sold Neves to Man Utd on a let’s say five year contract Man Utd said I tell you what we won’t give you any money now but we’ll pay you your transfer fee if we liked him and want to keep him at the end of his contract but if we don’t you can have him back, would you think that was a good deal or a little bit naive?

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Slightly smacks of “cutting your nose off to spite your face”! But I understand your feelings.

If we’ve got wind that this is the plan and he is running his contract down in order to go on a free next summer; I’d certainly be inclined to not give him any game time and have him apart from the first team.

However I suspect/hope that this is not the case. All evidence points towards Adama being a great lad and a genuine decent person... Barcelona fc is where the suspicion of evil and cynicism arises from!!

I agree, and I felt the same writing it. Happy to distinguish between the three parties if evidence suggests it was one or two, rather than all of them.

 

[VancouverWolf]

You ask some questions so I’ll do my best to answer them.

1. I don’t know they are unscrupulous, especially when creating an international deal like this. As I posted earlier, there were so many professionals involved with that deal, you can’t make them look like fools or unethical.
Apart from the bad reputation they’d have for all transfers in the future.

Also, Barca would need Adama, his agent, his lawyers and anybody else in his camp to go along with this fraudulent plan, ( I’m not sure but possibly criminal). Funny that you mention that Adama is a professional but yet think he would premeditatedly cheat and defraud Wolves.

2. Based on what we know, it wasn’t naive of Jeff to allow the deal go through. At that point Wolves didn’t have many Adama options. It was a chance to get £29m in the Wolves coffers…..regardless how slim but still a chance.
Barca probably told Wolves up front they were not prepared to pay for a loan due to Traore’s inconsistent 3.5 season with us. Can’t say I blame them. I certainly wouldn’t pay it. But Xavi probably thought he could train Adam to improve. Seems all 3 parties were sober and all decided to take a chance on the loan.

3. As for how Adama might…..that a BIG might, have helped Wolves secure more points if he’d stayed is total speculation. A chance…that’s all it was at that time…..a very slim chance. So if fans wanted Jeff to take a chance, then it’s rational and logical for him to take a chance on the loan deal.
If a player wants to leave, isn’t performing well and you have a chance to get £29m for him, then why wouldn’t Jeff take that chance. If he hadn’t, Adama might have been really annoyed and so would the Mix.
“ Jeff had a chance last year to sell him but now he walks away free. Boo, Jeff out.”

As for the Super League……yes that was lousy. However, that’s different from transfers. Example, if we sell Neves to United, would we accept their word that they’d honour their contract and pay us over the next 3 years, say? Sure we would.

Great reply and food for thought. But my wife and I are grabbing some lunch up the coast, ( our time), and will share my thoughts later.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Hi Vancouver

You make some interesting points.

You say you don’t know they are unscrupulous. Wow!

I’ll give you a couple of examples.
1. De Jong they apparently owe him a shed load of wages reportedly offering him a lot less yet signing new players on a shed load of wages.

2. Trying to create a Super League with an elite few undermining the whole basis of a competitive football league system in place for over a hundred years simply to serve their own purposes because they have continually overspent.

Both these give you an indication of the type of club you’re dealing with and how unscrupulous they are.

You say about Adama and his agent being complicit in what you call a fraudulent plan.
He won’t be the first player to be tapped up and is it criminal for Traore to see out his contract and then to sign for Barcelona? The answer you’ll be looking for there is No it isn’t!!

If you read my post I didn’t say to pay for the loan, I said if they didn’t buy him then a penalty clause could have been inserted with the option to buy, exactly as with the Trincao deal. Surely based on your hypothesis that Xavi thought he could improve Traore this wouldn’t be a problem as he’d be backing his own coaching skills?

Who knows how big the might would be. One thing is for certain is he couldn’t help us to gain extra points whilst playing for Barcelona.

Finally your comment about selling Man Utd and comparing that to the Adama loan, I would hope any contract signed between the clubs would specifically state the terms of sale incurring the purchase price and terms of payment. Thus if not paid there would be legal redress?

Now if you’d have made the comparison that we’d have sold Neves to Man Utd on a let’s say five year contract Man Utd said I tell you what we won’t give you any money now but we’ll pay you your transfer fee if we liked him and want to keep him at the end of his contract but if we don’t you can have him back, would you think that was a good deal or a little bit naive?

Just a reminder….this started with a post yesterday with someone saying that Traore might go to Barca next season for free. Just speculation, is all.
………………………

Since we only have a tiny bit of the info on this deal, maybe we shouldn’t belabour it but I think I owe you a reply at least.

Super league…..if Jeff and the other 13 PL clubs want to continue to do business with the Super Leaguers , then that’s that.
The Super League betrayal is apparently in the past as far as the league is concerned…and UEFA.

If you think Barca are untrustworthy, then certainly Jeff and everybody else would know too and would have cautioned his lawyers to be ultra careful.

If Traore has a understanding with Barca to cheat Wolves on the contract, then that is probably makes him complicit.

I did mention to you that maybe Barca were not going to assume any financial risk unless they wanted him permanently. Based on Adama’s past 3.5 seasons, why would they?

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Hi Vancouver

You make some interesting points.

You say you don’t know they are unscrupulous. Wow!

I’ll give you a couple of examples.
1. De Jong they apparently owe him a shed load of wages reportedly offering him a lot less yet signing new players on a shed load of wages.

2. Trying to create a Super League with an elite few undermining the whole basis of a competitive football league system in place for over a hundred years simply to serve their own purposes because they have continually overspent.

Both these give you an indication of the type of club you’re dealing with and how unscrupulous they are.

You say about Adama and his agent being complicit in what you call a fraudulent plan.
He won’t be the first player to be tapped up and is it criminal for Traore to see out his contract and then to sign for Barcelona? The answer you’ll be looking for there is No it isn’t!!

If you read my post I didn’t say to pay for the loan, I said if they didn’t buy him then a penalty clause could have been inserted with the option to buy, exactly as with the Trincao deal. Surely based on your hypothesis that Xavi thought he could improve Traore this wouldn’t be a problem as he’d be backing his own coaching skills?

Who knows how big the might would be. One thing is for certain is he couldn’t help us to gain extra points whilst playing for Barcelona.

Finally your comment about selling Man Utd and comparing that to the Adama loan, I would hope any contract signed between the clubs would specifically state the terms of sale incurring the purchase price and terms of payment. Thus if not paid there would be legal redress?

Now if you’d have made the comparison that we’d have sold Neves to Man Utd on a let’s say five year contract Man Utd said I tell you what we won’t give you any money now but we’ll pay you your transfer fee if we liked him and want to keep him at the end of his contract but if we don’t you can have him back, would you think that was a good deal or a little bit naive?

Is it possible that the 20% sell on clause in Trincao’s contract was inserted or modified to our benefit when Barca signed Traore on loan? By then it must have been growing evident to all parties that Wolves were unlikely to sign Trincao, so modifying the loan penalty could have been used to provide something of value for Wolves which didn’t require Barca to put up cash.