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Berlin Wolf

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Wolves explain Molineux redevelopment plans and £46m cost

Latest Wolves news from BirminghamLive includes an update from commercial chief Russell Jones on plans to redevelop Molineux

Wolves have a nine-stage plan to redevelop the dated Steve Bull stand, which involves demolishing and rebuilding the lower section to move it closer to the pitch. It’s estimated that would allow for 1,100 extra seats on top of what Wolves already have in that part of the ground.

Further work to the Steve Bull stand, including redeveloping the concourse in both tiers and the hospitality areas, is estimated to be worth £16million by Jones. Work to Molineux’s iconic South Bank would cost almost twice that figure.

Jones added: “As you know as a huge Wolves fan, there’s nothing that would give me more pride than to see the South Bank redeveloped, sort of double its size, which would go from 5,000 to 10,000, which again is part of our plans.

“But that’s a £30million investment, and of course what comes with that is a significant interest from funding. It’s something again we’re working at, because we need to try to find the best possible interest rates to be able to support that finance that’s required.”
 
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WickedWolfie

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Wolves explain Molineux redevelopment plans and £46m cost

Latest Wolves news from BirminghamLive includes an update from commercial chief Russell Jones on plans to redevelop Molineux

Wolves have a nine-stage plan to redevelop the dated Steve Bull stand, which involves demolishing and rebuilding the lower section to move it closer to the pitch. It’s estimated that would allow for 1,100 extra seats on top of what Wolves already have in that part of the ground.

Further work to the Steve Bull stand, including redeveloping the concourse in both tiers and the hospitality areas, is estimated to be worth £16million by Jones. Work to Molineux’s iconic South Bank would cost almost twice that figure.

Jones added: “As you know as a huge Wolves fan, there’s nothing that would give me more pride than to see the South Bank redeveloped, sort of double its size, which would go from 5,000 to 10,000, which again is part of our plans.

“But that’s a £30million investment, and of course what comes with that is a significant interest from funding. It’s something again we’re working at, because we need to try to find the best possible interest rates to be able to support that finance that’s required.”
Is he a Wolves fan? Hadn't heard that mentioned previously.
 

wolvesjoe

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Wolves explain Molineux redevelopment plans and £46m cost

Latest Wolves news from BirminghamLive includes an update from commercial chief Russell Jones on plans to redevelop Molineux

Wolves have a nine-stage plan to redevelop the dated Steve Bull stand, which involves demolishing and rebuilding the lower section to move it closer to the pitch. It’s estimated that would allow for 1,100 extra seats on top of what Wolves already have in that part of the ground.

Further work to the Steve Bull stand, including redeveloping the concourse in both tiers and the hospitality areas, is estimated to be worth £16million by Jones. Work to Molineux’s iconic South Bank would cost almost twice that figure.

Jones added: “As you know as a huge Wolves fan, there’s nothing that would give me more pride than to see the South Bank redeveloped, sort of double its size, which would go from 5,000 to 10,000, which again is part of our plans.

“But that’s a £30million investment, and of course what comes with that is a significant interest from funding. It’s something again we’re working at, because we need to try to find the best possible interest rates to be able to support that finance that’s required.”

So that's where it becomes unavoidable to question Fosun, imo.

These are low level investments for a cash-rich company of Fosun's size. These are investments that increase
the equity value of the club. Why would Wolves be scratching around for good loans?

Remarks like this do push me towards thinking there is a Fosun plan to sell or dilute their holding position.
 
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RMNottm

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Love this! I remember as a kid going to the open day at the ground in 1980 after the league cup win and they had the cup on display in the exec box reception area. I also clearly remember that carpet and being surprised and a tad disappointed that it was still there when I next went in there on a corporate promo evening do in the late 90s. Doubly amazed that its still there today, the bloody thing's 45 year old!
Buy quality buy once ;)
 

JayStringer

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So that's where it becomes unavoidable to question Fosun, imo.

These are low level investments for a cash-rich company of Fosun's size. These are investments that increase
the equity value of the club. Why would Wolves be scratching around for good loans?

Remarks like this do push me towards thinking there is a Fosun plan to sell or dilute their holding position.

Well, it's their money, not ours. On the one hand, yes, Fosun themselves have the money to pay 50m right now and get the Steve Bull and South Bank done. And then convert that debt to equity the same way they did recently with the 100+ million. But what is the value to them in doing that? increasing the equity would really only benefit them if/when they sell. The very fact they have such money on the first place is because they make smart investments. And applying to be involved in a 2028 bid would mean getting access to outside funding, and not needing to stump up the cash themselves, which is smart.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Fosun did exactly what you suggest. If I won 100 million on the euro millions tomorrow, I'd be straight on the phone to Jeff offering to fund it, because I'm a Wolves fan and heart-over-head. But I don't think it's fair to read anything into their commitment levels for not doing it, when they have clear and proven business models.
 

wolvesjoe

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Well, it's their money, not ours. On the one hand, yes, Fosun themselves have the money to pay 50m right now and get the Steve Bull and South Bank done. And then convert that debt to equity the same way they did recently with the 100+ million. But what is the value to them in doing that? increasing the equity would really only benefit them if/when they sell. The very fact they have such money on the first place is because they make smart investments. And applying to be involved in a 2028 bid would mean getting access to outside funding, and not needing to stump up the cash themselves, which is smart.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Fosun did exactly what you suggest. If I won 100 million on the euro millions tomorrow, I'd be straight on the phone to Jeff offering to fund it, because I'm a Wolves fan and heart-over-head. But I don't think it's fair to read anything into their commitment levels for not doing it, when they have clear and proven business models.
Their business model is costing them dearly, in terms of expanding fanbase, improving atmosphere, prestige and status, qualifying for Europe, etc, etc.

It's not the business model as such, but rather an extremely precarious international situation holding them back, in my view.
 

MolineuxMixer

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Wolves explain Molineux redevelopment plans and £46m cost

Latest Wolves news from BirminghamLive includes an update from commercial chief Russell Jones on plans to redevelop Molineux

Wolves have a nine-stage plan to redevelop the dated Steve Bull stand, which involves demolishing and rebuilding the lower section to move it closer to the pitch. It’s estimated that would allow for 1,100 extra seats on top of what Wolves already have in that part of the ground.

Further work to the Steve Bull stand, including redeveloping the concourse in both tiers and the hospitality areas, is estimated to be worth £16million by Jones. Work to Molineux’s iconic South Bank would cost almost twice that figure.

Jones added: “As you know as a huge Wolves fan, there’s nothing that would give me more pride than to see the South Bank redeveloped, sort of double its size, which would go from 5,000 to 10,000, which again is part of our plans.

“But that’s a £30million investment, and of course what comes with that is a significant interest from funding. It’s something again we’re working at, because we need to try to find the best possible interest rates to be able to support that finance that’s required.”
More chance of seeing pigs fly!
 

jwolfie91

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Quite amusing, in a masochistic kind of way, to read that 4 year old article.

Even the modest proposals for expanding the ground have not moved on at all since then, despite the
vital box of Premier status, (sic), having been ticked 4 times in a row.

I keep on repeating the same point: Fosun spend pretty much what they can spend due to FFP, (although they
are probably at the conservative end of that approach which all clubs ultimately have to follow). But the stadium
expansion and development is exactly the area where a difference can be made. Increased income, increased attendance,
a better design, more status, interest and profile, increase in the active fanbase, increase in equity value of club, and the possibility of using price discounts to attract new fans are all available with stadium development.

It is the lowest of low hanging fruit.

That they refuse to do this, and instead look at the most budget model imaginable as in the video, is the best evidence
we can have for Fosun's underlying strategy. No risk, no commitment, adopt a holding position until the way ahead globally can
be understood more clearly.

But its not low risk, as Fosun, with this approach, risk major disillusionment amongst the actual, not virtual, fanbase. The spectre of relegation hovers as teh most high risk outcome of all.

And so they are trapped in a dilemma only partly of their own making.
If the club took a massive loan out to expand the stadium the interest payments would reduce spending on the squad. Then we'd have a bigger chance of having a lovely new stand in the Championship
 

jwolfie91

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Their business model is costing them dearly, in terms of expanding fanbase, improving atmosphere, prestige and status, qualifying for Europe, etc, etc.

It's not the business model as such, but rather an extremely precarious international situation holding them back, in my view.
They've run the numbers on that and it doesn't make financial sense. They have an army of business analysts who will have assessed data you can't get your hands on.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

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So that's where it becomes unavoidable to question Fosun, imo.

These are low level investments for a cash-rich company of Fosun's size. These are investments that increase
the equity value of the club. Why would Wolves be scratching around for good loans?

Remarks like this do push me towards thinking there is a Fosun plan to sell or dilute their holding position.
Shi said as much. Looking for investors. He expects Wolves to be an IPO in a few years.

Ie An initial public offering or stock launch - a public offering in which shares of a company are sold to institutional investors and usually also to retail investors.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

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So that's where it becomes unavoidable to question Fosun, imo.

These are low level investments for a cash-rich company of Fosun's size. These are investments that increase
the equity value of the club. Why would Wolves be scratching around for good loans?

Remarks like this do push me towards thinking there is a Fosun plan to sell or dilute their holding position.
Shi said as much. Looking for investors. He expects Wolves to be an IPO in a few years.
It will be interesting to see what the attendance fallout is after this.

I go with one other mate, we travel up from the south which is about a 2.5 hour drive each way, I distinctly get the impression he won’t renew as his kids are getting older and he seems to have picked up a few weekend hobbies (I don’t want to approach the subject directly as I don’t want to hear the bad news :laughing:) and if he doesn’t I likely won’t as it’s going to get too expensive to go up regularly on my own plus the anticipated price increase.

I know that this is only one case, but I think there will be a few people who have found other things to do at the weekend/ appreciate the extra money in the back pocket. Probably not enough to dent attendances significantly but I think it could be easier for newcomers to get an ST this summer.
Mine is a 200 mile round trip. A tank of diesel is now £100. I will also have to think hard about renewing this summer.
 

whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury

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Would need many years of making money before an IPO.People would be looking for dividends.
I think its more likely some hedgefund from the States would try a buy out.
what number of the clubs in the prem are now owned by the Yanks?
I also believe Fosun are asset rich and cash poor.The last time(about 3 months ago) I had a look at their finances
they didn`t have enough cash in the bank to meet debts for this year.
That doesn`t mean they are in the slightest trouble as yet another Club Med has been opened in the last couple of weeks
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

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Would need many years of making money before an IPO.People would be looking for dividends.
I think its more likely some hedgefund from the States would try a buy out.
what number of the clubs in the prem are now owned by the Yanks?
I also believe Fosun are asset rich and cash poor.The last time(about 3 months ago) I had a look at their finances
they didn`t have enough cash in the bank to meet debts for this year.
That doesn`t mean they are in the slightest trouble as yet another Club Med has been opened in the last couple of weeks
I agree. Man Utd tried it a few years back and their shares have fallen in value every year since. It's not a model that has worked well for football clubs. In his interview Shi said it was inevitable, but i don't think he had any other ideas.
 

Sussex Wolf

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Would need many years of making money before an IPO.People would be looking for dividends.
I think its more likely some hedgefund from the States would try a buy out.
what number of the clubs in the prem are now owned by the Yanks?
I also believe Fosun are asset rich and cash poor.The last time(about 3 months ago) I had a look at their finances
they didn`t have enough cash in the bank to meet debts for this year.
That doesn`t mean they are in the slightest trouble as yet another Club Med has been opened in the last couple of weeks

Plenty of companies have had successful IPO’s without having made any profits. To quote this report:-

“In 2018, 81 percent of US companies were unprofitable in the year leading up to their public offerings”

While the article rightly worries if this percentage is too high, if you look at the graph in the article, since 1990, on average around 50% of companies going public did not make a profit in the prior year.



Fosun are an investment company, it’s their nature to have lots of assets, lots of debt, and very little cash. In fact if they had a lot of cash on hand, then investors would ask if they are working their equity hard enough.
 

Dan G WWFC

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I haven't listened to it yet, so is it going ahead or are the plans on hold?
 

Sussex Wolf

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I haven't listened to it yet, so is it going ahead or are the plans on hold?

It’s a fairly detailed description of what they’d like to do, with estimated costs, but it was clearly said that it’s not top of their priorities and nothing has reached planning yet bar a new fan zone outside.
 

Dan G WWFC

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It’s a fairly detailed description of what they’d like to do, with estimated costs, but it was clearly said that it’s not top of their priorities and nothing has reached planning yet bar a new fan zone outside.

You'd think with it not going against ffp and how long it will take for it to start benifiting they'd do it asap

Especially with how we sell out most weeks and have a massive waiting list
 

Sussex Wolf

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You'd think with it not going against ffp and how long it will take for it to start benifiting they'd do it asap

Especially with how we sell out most weeks and have a massive waiting list

The issue highlighted is that the investment is significant and would take 10-15 years to pay out.
 

Starsky

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We won't get the stadium we need until a) Fosun sell up or b) relations with China improve.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

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I haven't listened to it yet, so is it going ahead or are the plans on hold?
It's quite high level stuff, to give the impression that they are going to do something, given that Shi said we would be getting a new stadium 6 years ago. There are no plans drawn up. It's not happening anytime soon.
 

Berlin Wolf

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It's quite high level stuff, to give the impression that they are going to do something, given that Shi said we would be getting a new stadium 6 years ago. There are no plans drawn up. It's not happening anytime soon.
I would be very surprised if the Steve Bull and the South Bank were re-developed as Russell Jones outlined in time for a 2028 host city Euro bid. But fingers crossed.
 
D

Deleted member drgr12429

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The issue highlighted is that the investment is significant and would take 10-15 years to pay out.
And the reason for a loan taken by Fosun sports is probably because the Fosun group aren't allowed to put money into football outside of China currently. Fosun sports is separate, but i don't think they are allowed to be backed financially by the main group.
It might explain the loan thing.
 

GV Wolf

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In regards to timescales for the Steve bull and SB, plans have to be drawn up, reports commissioned (ie transport strategy, design and access statement) and planning applications submitted to the Council. If approved, tenders have to be drawn up for the approved works, then go out to tender and finally contracts signed for when works could begin.
If I have missed out a process that would increase the timescale. What I am saying this is not a quick process - don’t expect works to start soon, they haven’t even submitted a planning application yet.
 

reanswolf

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In regards to timescales for the Steve bull and SB, plans have to be drawn up, reports commissioned (ie transport strategy, design and access statement) and planning applications submitted to the Council. If approved, tenders have to be drawn up for the approved works, then go out to tender and finally contracts signed for when works could begin.
If I have missed out a process that would increase the timescale. What I am saying this is not a quick process - don’t expect works to start soon, they haven’t even submitted a planning application yet.
Nothing is happening.
 

Sussex Wolf

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Problem with that is that it always will :(

That’s very true. As someone else commented though, if you plan to sell some or all of your equity in the coming years, then taking on a large loan for stadium improvements may not result in a higher return in your sale price, if the cost of improvements exceeds the value to the extra income in the short term. Since Jeff talked about an IPO, and previously talked about selling a stake, then it seems likely that significant stadium investment won’t happen before one of those things happening. More likely is that the club will have plans and healthy financial forecasts for such stadium improvements ready to share with potential buyers, but it’s left to them to progress should they take over and see this as a good strategy.
 

greco wolf

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In regards to timescales for the Steve bull and SB, plans have to be drawn up, reports commissioned (ie transport strategy, design and access statement) and planning applications submitted to the Council. If approved, tenders have to be drawn up for the approved works, then go out to tender and finally contracts signed for when works could begin.
If I have missed out a process that would increase the timescale. What I am saying this is not a quick process - don’t expect works to start soon, they haven’t even submitted a planning application yet.
Agreed. But most of work internal so no planning for that part. Just the re profile of lower tier which should be a formality as it already exists. The roof profile as well if included.
 

oldgoldheart

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So that's where it becomes unavoidable to question Fosun, imo.

These are low level investments for a cash-rich company of Fosun's size. These are investments that increase
the equity value of the club. Why would Wolves be scratching around for good loans?

Remarks like this do push me towards thinking there is a Fosun plan to sell or dilute their holding position.
yes, they are openly talking of doing an IPO. that definitely dilutes their holding and allows them to cash out . they will get their stake back plus a decent return then hold the rest with no risk
 

oldgoldheart

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It’s a fairly detailed description of what they’d like to do, with estimated costs, but it was clearly said that it’s not top of their priorities and nothing has reached planning yet bar a new fan zone outside.
its all bull**** to keep fans quiet. they intend to do pretty much nothing
 

Mr Sizzle

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That’s very true. As someone else commented though, if you plan to sell some or all of your equity in the coming years, then taking on a large loan for stadium improvements may not result in a higher return in your sale price, if the cost of improvements exceeds the value to the extra income in the short term. Since Jeff talked about an IPO, and previously talked about selling a stake, then it seems likely that significant stadium investment won’t happen before one of those things happening. More likely is that the club will have plans and healthy financial forecasts for such stadium improvements ready to share with potential buyers, but it’s left to them to progress should they take over and see this as a good strategy.
100% agree. Sell the dream in essence.
 

JohnB

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Looks like we’ll know over the next 12 months re Euro Bid.



Countries who wish to contest the hosting rights will then need to follow the bidding timeline for the tournament. This is as follows:

  • March 23, 2022 - Deadline for national associations to confirm their interest to bid
  • March 30, 2022 - Bid requirements are made available to the bidders
  • April 5, 2022 - Announcement of bidders by Uefa
  • April 12, 2023 - Final bid dossier submission deadline
  • September 2023 - Appointment of host(s) of Uefa Euro 2028
 

JohnB

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……although how realistic it is for us to be selected as one of 3 30k to 40k “net” seating stadiums and one of 10 overall stadiums I would question. You’d expect 4 guaranteed stadia from London, Scotland, Wales and Dublin plus 6 others 1 other London (Spurs), 1 Liverpool, 1 Manchester, 1 North East (Newcastle), 1 Midlands (Villa) plus 1 other - Northern Ireland?

PS - lots of other stadia missing from the list below - Southampton, Sunderland, Chelsea to name but a few.

1654245733712.jpeg
 

kiddywolves26

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……although how realistic it is for us to be selected as one of 3 30k to 40k “net” seating stadiums and one of 10 overall stadiums I would question. You’d expect 4 guaranteed stadia from London, Scotland, Wales and Dublin plus 6 others 1 other London (Spurs), 1 Liverpool, 1 Manchester, 1 North East (Newcastle), 1 Midlands (Villa) plus 1 other - Northern Ireland?

PS - lots of other stadia missing from the list below - Southampton, Sunderland, Chelsea to name but a few.

View attachment 28207
We seem to have a food relationship with the FA so you never know. In one of the ask wolves videos they stated the FA contacted the club about England games as opposed to us offering. They were impressed by the Arnold Clark cup and previous U21s games.
 

kiddywolves26

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yes, they are openly talking of doing an IPO. that definitely dilutes their holding and allows them to cash out . they will get their stake back plus a decent return then hold the rest with no risk
They are selling shares in Fosun Sports not Wolves. That to me suggests they are going nowhere.
 
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