Stadium Plans

[Minimalist]

There's been some talk today about Old Trafford being refurbished. Some saying a complete rebuild, but I can't see that happening.

It made me think though, if it was completely rebuilt, what kind of capacity would they have? More than than Wembley?

Even 90k is only a 16k increase! Hardly seems worth it!
And where would they play while rebuild takes place? Would surely take 3 years at least.
Could only see it working if they found a new site.

 

[moseleyite]

Even 90k is only a 16k increase! Hardly seems worth it!
And where would they play while rebuild takes place? Would surely take 3 years at least.
Could only see it working if they found a new site.

There’s always that commonwealth stadium place across the city… is anybody using that?

 

[Minimalist]

There’s always that commonwealth stadium place across the city… is anybody using that?

Haha,
Weird thing is Wembley would probably work for them better!!

 

[moseleyite]

Haha,
Weird thing is Wembley would probably work for them better!!

I’m desperately trying not to make a “that’s closer to their fanbase joke” (innocent smile emoji)

Seriously though, it is kind of tricky to temporarily move stadium when your stadium is pretty much the biggest around. Bizarre as it sounds, Wembley is a match… it’s just bloody miles away. Ah well, nice problem to have I suppose!

 

[WickedWolfie]

There’s always that commonwealth stadium place across the city… is anybody using that?

You joke but that seems the most likely option if Citeh would allow it...

 

[Deleted member 11021Mcm]

There's been some talk today about Old Trafford being refurbished. Some saying a complete rebuild, but I can't see that happening.

It made me think though, if it was completely rebuilt, what kind of capacity would they have? More than than Wembley?

They have plenty of land to

Even 90k is only a 16k increase! Hardly seems worth it!
And where would they play while rebuild takes place? Would surely take 3 years at least.
Could only see it working if they found a new site.

They own pretty much all the land around OT. There is plenty of room to build bigger and better stadium whilst still playing their home matches at OT to a capacity frowd.

 

[wayne-the-wanderer]

They don't own enough land for a rebuild, a lot of the land to the west is owned by freightliner who have just spent millions on a new computerised system for the Manchester terminal

 

[Coshamwolves]

Anyway,, when are we gonna get a new Steve Bull and South Bank extension done?

 

[Oldgoldilox]

I did the OT stadium tour a couple of weeks back with my lad, I think the stand they want to develop is the old South stand, parts of which date back pre-war, such as the old tunnel area. Was quite surprised at the quality of the seating and legroom in that stand tbh, think Steve Bull. They are quite hemmed in by the railway line behind that stand though, but Im sure there are modern construction techniques which can solve that.

 

[steve vena]

Haha,
Weird thing is Wembley would probably work for them better!!

Yes be like a home game lol.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

I did the OT stadium tour a couple of weeks back with my lad, I think the stand they want to develop is the old South stand, parts of which date back pre-war, such as the old tunnel area. Was quite surprised at the quality of the seating and legroom in that stand tbh, think Steve Bull. They are quite hemmed in by the railway line behind that stand though, but Im sure there are modern construction techniques which can solve that.

Yes - that is the preferred option rumour has it and means being able to still build the 2nd tier on The Sir Bobby Charlton Stand, without being caused restraint via the railway.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I did the OT stadium tour a couple of weeks back with my lad, I think the stand they want to develop is the old South stand, parts of which date back pre-war, such as the old tunnel area. Was quite surprised at the quality of the seating and legroom in that stand tbh, think Steve Bull. They are quite hemmed in by the railway line behind that stand though, but Im sure there are modern construction techniques which can solve that.

Think it’s always been an option to cantilever over the railway, so that a new stand could be as high and deep as the others. I imagine a combination of this, perhaps with a new modern roof across all four stands to bring in more light, and then refurbishing the other three stands and the obligatory fancy hospitality.

But the Telegraph seems to be pushing the option of a brand new stadium to the west of the current stadium on land they own there. They said there is enough space to build an entire new stadium without closing some or all of the current one while it’s happening - similar to Spurs, but without the need to move part way through. Like the much discussed Molineux rebuilt where Asda is

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Think it’s always been an option to cantilever over the railway, so that a new stand could be as high and deep as the others. I imagine a combination of this, perhaps with a new modern roof across all four stands to bring in more light, and then refurbishing the other three stands and the obligatory fancy hospitality.

I wonder what the total area of the stands is compared with Spurs. My impression (even with the NB) is that you'd have to build a ground 50% bigger to even maintain capacity, OT is really cramped (in a good way!) and minimal hospitality considering.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I wonder what the total area of the stands is compared with Spurs. My impression (even with the NB) is that you'd have to build a ground 50% bigger to even maintain capacity, OT is really cramped (in a good way!) and minimal hospitality considering.

I think that’s probably the issue with just expanding the South Stand. That alone would I guess cost 100m, and wouldn’t touch the rest of the stadium. You’d perhaps need to do something like Liverpool are doing to each of the other stands to bring them up to a modern standard, and that would likely cost as an entire new stadium to the west if it’s true they have space. Realistically a new stadium would need to be roughly the size of Wembley to get both the capacity and facilities that would warrant it.

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

I did the OT stadium tour a couple of weeks back with my lad, I think the stand they want to develop is the old South stand, parts of which date back pre-war, such as the old tunnel area. Was quite surprised at the quality of the seating and legroom in that stand tbh, think Steve Bull. They are quite hemmed in by the railway line behind that stand though, but Im sure there are modern construction techniques which can solve that.

I think thats their first option to build over the railway line.

With regards leg room i went to england v ireland rugby match and the leg room was amazing, even giants wouldnt complain.

The lower concourses were ****** huge with bands playing etc

Amazing day no waiting to get served, drinking in the stands mixed fans. No reason to leave the ground after final whistle.

 

[JR WAS KING]

I think thats their first option to build over the railway line.

With regards leg room i went to england v ireland rugby match and the leg room was amazing, even giants wouldnt complain.

The lower concourses were ****** huge with bands playing etc

Amazing day no waiting to get served, drinking in the stands mixed fans. No reason to leave the ground after final whistle.

I was there as well. Twickenham is a great day out.

 

[JJ59]

I was there as well. Twickenham is a great day OUT.

I used to go regularly but gave up because of the constant disturbance by people going for more beer/loo. It was a real nuisance forever getting up/down, I missed a number of conversion kicks because of standing for "fans" shuffling past totally spoilt the occasion. One time the people at the end of our row became so annoyed that they made it difficult for folk to squeeze past thus blocking our view of the game. At half time the queue for the gents was like an inverted pyramid, I counted 34 blokes across in the back row of the queue. It was a recognised issue that journalists would mention in the press. I believe there was some talk of closing the bars after half time, something needed to be done.

 

[Peszkywolf]

I used to go regularly but gave up because of the constant disturbance by people going for more beer/loo. It was a real nuisance forever getting up/down, I missed a number of conversion kicks because of standing for "fans" shuffling past totally spoilt the occasion. One time the people at the end of our row became so annoyed that they made it difficult for folk to squeeze past thus blocking our view of the game. At half time the queue for the gents was like an inverted pyramid, I counted 34 blokes across in the back row of the queue. It was a recognised issue that journalists would mention in the press. I believe there was some talk of closing the bars after half time, something needed to be done.

You haven't been in the Bully upper tier then. Go for a wee at HT and you'll probably just get to wash your hands by the end of half time. You have to queue for a beer on the 30th minute, maybe before, to be able to get served for HT.
But...... The atmosphere is great, view brilliant, and never sat down. Swings and roundabouts. Shame they can't have a smoking/outdoor drinking area outside the turnstiles, and a bit cheaper for the lack of facilities.

 

[JJ59]

You haven't been in the Bully upper tier then. Go for a wee at HT and you'll probably just get to wash your hands by the end of half time. You have to queue for a beer on the 30th minute, maybe before, to be able to get served for HT.
But...... The atmosphere is great, view brilliant, and never sat down. Swings and roundabouts. Shame they can't have a smoking/outdoor drinking area outside the turnstiles, and a bit cheaper for the lack of facilities.

Sat in the SB for years, with regret moved to the BW this season at my son's request so I recognise what you say. Apart from the fan led issues I think Twickenham is a great stadium, getting a train following the match is a different matter!

 

[beppe7619]

Sat in the SB for years, with regret moved to the BW this season at my son's request so I recognise what you say. Apart from the fan led issues I think Twickenham is a great stadium, getting a train following the match is a different matter!

After being in the north bank I was shocked how small the concourse was in the Billy Wright stand

 

[WickedWolfie]

After being in the north bank I was shocked how small the concourse was in the Billy Wright stand

The Steve Bull is worse.

 

[beppe7619]

The Steve Bull is worse.

I use to have a season ticket in the Steve Bull but after being in the north bank for over 10 years I forgot how small the concourses are. Plus football has changed now with things like tv screens

 

[beppe7619]

I still think Wolves should take the roof off the north bank add 3500 more seats add an extra 6k to the south bank then relocate the people to the extra seats from the steve bull stand so they can knock the bully stand down with minimum loss of capacity

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I still think Wolves should take the roof off the north bank add 3500 more seats add an extra 6k to the south bank then relocate the people to the extra seats from the steve bull stand so they can knock the bully stand down with minimum loss of capacity

I'm not sure if you'd wanna go any further up or back in the NB. The back row is just about as far from the action I'd care to be.

 

[AndyY]

I'm not sure if you'd wanna go any further up or back in the NB. The back row is just about as far from the action I'd care to be.

How does the back of the NB compare to Wembley? I can’t remember what upper tier row I was in for the Cup semi-final but it felt pretty high up and there was still plenty of rows behind/ above me.

 

[Abbobrom]

I have not enjoyed my visits to the new Wembley. You are too far away from the action. At the back it is like looking down at a Subuteo game.

 

[Berlin Wolf]

I see loss-making Everton are making progress on their new 53,000 capacity stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Loss-making Everton makes stadium progress - Place North West

The club has reported a £120m pre-tax loss for the year ended 30 June 2021, while Laing O’Rourke continues to make progress on the 53,000-capacity new ground at Bramley-Moore Dock.

www.placenorthwest.co.uk

 

[Chris H]

I see loss-making Everton are making progress on their new 53,000 capacity stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Loss-making Everton makes stadium progress - Place North West

The club has reported a £120m pre-tax loss for the year ended 30 June 2021, while Laing O’Rourke continues to make progress on the 53,000-capacity new ground at Bramley-Moore Dock.

www.placenorthwest.co.uk

“Everton FC posted losses of £120m for the year. Of that, £103m was associated with the effect of Covid-19, the club said.”

Was it *******s.

It’s interesting that the bigger your loss the bigger the apparent “effect of covid” was for clubs.

Us £19m

Villa £56m

Everton £103m

Only one of those clubs were in Europe to have been able to lose out on some income from that too…

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

How does the back of the NB compare to Wembley? I can’t remember what upper tier row I was in for the Cup semi-final but it felt pretty high up and there was still plenty of rows behind/ above me.

Clearly distance from the pitch is unavoidable in a stadium of 90,000.

When building a ground half the size, it's entirely avoidable and should be.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I'm not sure if you'd wanna go any further up or back in the NB. The back row is just about as far from the action I'd care to be.

I really wonder about the NB. It does look high and far away from the action from pictures I’ve seen from those up there, but it’s far from being the biggest capacity stand behind a goal. The hospitality level must be having a big impact on overall capacity, even if it’s probably more than making up for that on income.

I guess the nature of football grounds are that it works better to have the higher and deeper stands along the sides, rather than behind the goals. So you could have a much deeper Steve Bull or BW stand (than the NB) and the centre seats in the rearmost rows would still be closer to both goals, than the south goal is from the top of the NB. This would suggest that the South Bank should be no higher or deeper than the North Bank, but a single tier to maximise seats. Put it all together and it becomes clear why the Spurs stadium is designed the way it is.

 

[Peszkywolf]

North Bank seats are a lot bigger and rows spacious than older stands. Does lose a bit of atmosphere due to to that and the size / distance to the pitch IMO.

 

[lets all have a disco]

It very spacious in the north bank ..... especially the last 15mins of the match.....

 

[beppe7619]

I'm not sure if you'd wanna go any further up or back in the NB. The back row is just about as far from the action I'd care to be.

I am going by the capacity of the stand to bring it up to 12 k plus behind the goals so the attendance is spread evenly around the stands as 8600 is on the low side behind the goal

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I am going by the capacity of the stand to bring it up to 12 k plus behind the goals so the attendance is spread evenly around the stands as 8600 is on the low side behind the goal

If you consider the full corners to be integral to the NB, then completing the NE corner and mirroring it in the NW corner would bring capacity of the NB to around 12K, which isn't much smaller than the proposed new Steve Bull Stand which would have been approximately 13K with no corners.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I am going by the capacity of the stand to bring it up to 12 k plus behind the goals so the attendance is spread evenly around the stands as 8600 is on the low side behind the goal

It is already an utter pain to get out of the NBU without adding thousands more fans - the stadium safety inspectors would likely have a view. Not to mention the wholly inadequate lift arrangements for the elderly and disabled.

 

[JayStringer]

I really wonder about the NB. It does look high and far away from the action from pictures I’ve seen from those up there, but it’s far from being the biggest capacity stand behind a goal. The hospitality level must be having a big impact on overall capacity, even if it’s probably more than making up for that on income.

The thing with large stands/stadiums is that it helps to breed to different atmospheres. I see this a lot from semi-regular visits to Celtic Park and talking to fans from the different parts of the stadium. Their behind-the-goals stands house roughly 13-15k, and their largest stand is around 25. And yes, in the upper tier you are quite far away from the action. Certainly compared to anything we've been used to at Molineux. But -and there's always a but in these conversations- you still have the lower tier, and effectively that is more like what we are used to as a stadium/viewing POV.

The result generally is that in the upper tier you get fans who are happy to be a little further away, join in the singing less frequently (with notable exceptions during big games), and describe how they like to get a "more overall view of the game as it happens." And in the lower tier you get the vocal more noisy fans who want to be closer to the action. I've sat in every stand, with different fans, and can notice the differences. Think of it as a loud 40k stadium with a quieter 20k stadium on top.

To apply this to Molineux, let's take the standard cliche that the noisy fans are in the Southbank, with the Steve Bull and then Northbank after that, and then the "Billy Quiet." In larger two-tier stands like other modern stadiums, the "Billy Quiet" type fans will gravitate towards the upper tier, and the Southbank and Steve Bull fans will gravitate towards the lower tier, and there will be two different atmospheres depending on where in the ground you sit. The loud and exciting Molineux could still be there absolutely fine in the lower tier, and there would be a quieter 'second' stadium on top.

And, to be honest, to grow the club's fanbase means we need to grow both sets of those fans. This is why I have no issue with building bigger stands. Not because I like sitting further away - I don't- but because the club need to cater to both, and because having seats higher and further away doesn't stop the fans closer and lower from generating the noise and atmosphere.

 

[LythamWolf]

The thing with large stands/stadiums is that it helps to breed to different atmospheres. I see this a lot from semi-regular visits to Celtic Park and talking to fans from the different parts of the stadium. Their behind-the-goals stands house roughly 13-15k, and their largest stand is around 25. And yes, in the upper tier you are quite far away from the action. Certainly compared to anything we've been used to at Molineux. But -and there's always a but in these conversations- you still have the lower tier, and effectively that is more like what we are used to as a stadium/viewing POV.

The result generally is that in the upper tier you get fans who are happy to be a little further away, join in the singing less frequently (with notable exceptions during big games), and describe how they like to get a "more overall view of the game as it happens." And in the lower tier you get the vocal more nosy fans who want to be closer to the action. I've sat in every stand, with different fans, and can notice the differences.

To apply this to Molineux, let's take the standard cliche that the noisy fans are in the Southbank, with the Steve Bull and then Northbank after that, and then the "Billy Quiet." In larger two-tier stands like other modern stadiums, the "Billy Quiet" type fans will gravitate towards the upper tier, and the Southbank and Steve Bull fans will gravitate towards the lower tier, and there will be two different atmospheres depending on where in the ground you sit.

And, to be honest, to grow the club's fanbase means we need to grow both sets of those fans. This is why I have no issue with building bigger stands. Not because I like sitting further away - I don't- but because the club need to cater to both, and because having seats higher and further away doesn't stop the fans closer and lower from generating the noise and atmosphere.

Good point, people always go where best suits their needs. I usually go in the South Bank but, if I'm with the missus, we go in the North Bank. She used to ask if we could go in the Billy Quiet but you have to draw the line somewhere

 

[Spitfire]

It is already an utter pain to get out of the NBU without adding thousands more fans - the stadium safety inspectors would likely have a view. Not to mention the wholly inadequate lift arrangements for the elderly and disabled.

The stair wells in the SJH north bank were far better, being double width. Don’t know why they didn’t copy that in the current version.

 

[IANWILSON]

I'm a South Banker, have been for umpteen years. I'm thinking i fancy the padded seats of the North next year if i can get used to the shower effect when it rains.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I'm a South Banker, have been for umpteen years. I'm thinking i fancy the padded seats of the North next year if i can get used to the shower effect when it rains.

What padded seats???