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Small time Jeff strikes again.....

JOSWolf

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In all fairness the same was said last summer, plenty on here expected a relegation battle. The season finished awfully and can’t be ignored, but neither can the fact in January we were talking of champions league.

I will happily take pelters for it and anyone is free to bookmark this with a “told you so” but I’ll be absolutely amazed if we haven’t signed at least one forward by the time the window shuts.

Will you be critical if we havent signed a striker and midfielder by the time the window closes? Do you think our squad is anywhere near strong enough when we have 9 subs and can use 5? Do you think this squad is well equipped to start the season with the current numbers available and get goals and win games? Sorry for all the questions but just genuinely interested as not meaning to sound bad but you never seem to have any real critical points against the club which is you choice of course but just wonder if you would be critical at any point or not.
 

Bill S Preston Esq.

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We have 5 league games before the window closes. That's 15 points you can't just take for granted. What decent player would fancy a team who due to injuries are in a relegation place in the league.

For me leaving everything to the end of August is plain and simply bad management. It doesn't matter if others do it, I don't think we should follow the lemmings over the cliff.
It's something I felt the 3 M's did get right. Signings, tended to be in the door early. They also had a tendency to ship out with no time to replace, so swings and roundabouts huh!
 

wolfslair

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It's something I felt the 3 M's did get right. Signings, tended to be in the door early. They also had a tendency to ship out with no time to replace, so swings and roundabouts huh!
I am disappointed there wasn’t a “he’s like a new signing” for Morgan….

I feel that was a wonderful piece of nostalgia that has been lost!!
 

SteveBullsKnee

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Will you be critical if we havent signed a striker and midfielder by the time the window closes? Do you think our squad is anywhere near strong enough when we have 9 subs and can use 5? Do you think this squad is well equipped to start the season with the current numbers available and get goals and win games? Sorry for all the questions but just genuinely interested as not meaning to sound bad but you never seem to have any real critical points against the club which is you choice of course but just wonder if you would be critical at any point or not.
I’ll happy if we sign a forward and midfielder and critical if we don’t sign a forward, above and beyond that I’m not concerned. The number of subs in my mind is irrelevant to us, if anything it might help us try and blood some of the kids we have. In my mind Cundle and Hodge for instance are real talents and them getting minutes can only help. Flooding the bench with experienced players stagnates the growth of young players.
 

Flump

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Lots of assumptions and theories there…..

You are correct there are many variables to a sale but in this case we knew the predicament we could and have ended up in was a possibility.

The replacement shouldn’t have been close or lined up, the agreement should already have been in place!

You don’t weaken yourself on a loan deal, I can see selling neves for £50m+ and their being a lag or time needed to get quality to replace as at least we have donk, Joao, MGW as prem ready players then youth and numbers in cundle - prem experience, Ronan - coming off a good loan with senior experience who can all play midfield roles.

With the strikers it was simply Raul and Fabio, there wasn’t the room to gamble and they have and lost even after having seen what happens with no Raul and a senior ready striker. That is insane! We have a lived experience of this scenario and know it is bad so why chance it happening again?

Yes, in a perfect world of course it would be in place, but then if the club we're buying/loaning in from thinks the same thing, and the club they're buying from thinks the same thing... All transfers in the would eventually have to be completed on the same day at the same time at one go! It comes down to taking a small risk - obviously in football people have to do that all the time. They know we will bring in a striker in the next week or two, and are happy to wait until then.

And MGW is a perfect example of why we want to do this deal, if Fabio has a season as good as MGW did, then we're looking at having a much better player on our hands. I just don't see the point in getting yourself so worked up about us being without a fit striker for a week or so of pre-season!
 

sillytuna

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Yeah, I agree we have sticking plasters…..

But Raul is out for at least two months and that doesn’t allow set backs and getting match sharpness and these lads aren’t good enough finishers to a man to do what is needed in this case.

We can’t play a front line with no height long term it is too predictable also there isn’t a prolific player amongst them.

Hwang has good shot conversion and tries hard which I love about him but he is only a good deputy and that is it.
Thought that was misreported and he's out for 3-4 weeks. Agree about the height and prolific issue tho I do think hwang can out the ball away if we keep him in the box.
 

wolfslair

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Thought that was misreported and he's out for 3-4 weeks. Agree about the height and prolific issue tho I do think hwang can out the ball away if we keep him in the box.
If it is that short a time out then AWESOME and hwang is more than capable of doing a job!

I like hwang, I defend him alot on here as I think he is at his best centrally in and around the box as his conversion rates are very good.
Hwang is a good off the bench striking option and I want to see what he and Raul would do in a shearer and Sheringham style of play, oddly I think it would work!
 

wolfslair

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It’s unlikely to be that long mate, since been said 2-3 weeks. Not that the moaners let facts get in the way
In fairness to many on here, the only time they may have seen how long he was potentially out was online and it was 8 weeks. If it is less than I am sure people would simmer down more than a bit, I feel much better knowing it could only be that long!!!!
 

wolfslair

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Yes, in a perfect world of course it would be in place, but then if the club we're buying/loaning in from thinks the same thing, and the club they're buying from thinks the same thing... All transfers in the would eventually have to be completed on the same day at the same time at one go! It comes down to taking a small risk - obviously in football people have to do that all the time. They know we will bring in a striker in the next week or two, and are happy to wait until then.

And MGW is a perfect example of why we want to do this deal, if Fabio has a season as good as MGW did, then we're looking at having a much better player on our hands. I just don't see the point in getting yourself so worked up about us being without a fit striker for a week or so of pre-season!
I agree a loan for Fabio could be the making of him and really it should have happened last season. I think there is a real player in Fabio and regular pitch time will bring that out as he improved so much around the pitch last season.

Morgan did the right thing not coming back last year, he was the key man so the ball went through him and he had to make stuff happen and that will again have sped up his development also. He has grown and not just physically all though he does look much better aesthetically too.

My frustration is the second/third striker birth could and should have been sorted so they can learn how to play the systems as in pre-season the movement and understanding has been excellent and I want any new player to be up and running ready for the season as the prem is an unforgiving league and will be harder to learn about others in live competition.

The raul injury, granted now reported to be less serious thank god, just places more emphasis on getting that sorted asap but to me above all it shows a lack of planning and foresight to an event we have experienced before and why getting all our ducks in a row and having dotted the i’s and crossed the t’s was crucial before letting Fabio go and that is my frustration.
 

DanishWolf

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I’ll happy if we sign a forward and midfielder and critical if we don’t sign a forward, above and beyond that I’m not concerned. The number of subs in my mind is irrelevant to us, if anything it might help us try and blood some of the kids we have. In my mind Cundle and Hodge for instance are real talents
I’ll happy if we sign a forward and midfielder and critical if we don’t sign a forward, above and beyond that I’m not concerned. The number of subs in my mind is irrelevant to us, if anything it might help us try and blood some of the kids we have. In my mind Cundle and Hodge for instance are real talents and them getting minutes can only help. Flooding the bench with experienced players stagnates the growth of young players.

Players gets injured and lose form and coaches uses subs to change games, so who is on our bench matters quite a lot.

Bur guess it depends on the end goal.

If our primary goal is to develop youngsters, then by all means flood the bench with youngsters who aren't yet PL ready, and hope than in due time, enough PL minutes might have turned them into PL players or at least more saleable assets.

If the primary goal is to win football matches though, then the bench should have mostly PL ready players. Meanwhile youngsters like Cundle and Hodge can learn their trade on loan at clubs that better matches their current level.
 

SteveBullsKnee

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Players gets injured and lose form and coaches uses subs to change games, so who is on our bench matters quite a lot.

Bur guess it depends on the end goal.

If our primary goal is to develop youngsters, then by all means flood the bench with youngsters who aren't yet PL ready, and hope than in due time, enough PL minutes might have turned them into PL players or at least more saleable assets.

If the primary goal is to win football matches though, then the bench should have mostly PL ready players. Meanwhile youngsters like Cundle and Hodge can learn their trade on loan at clubs that better matches their current level.
The trouble is if they don’t get game time then how do we ever know if they’re good enough? As a club who have said a lot about becoming self sufficient and promoting via the academy I don’t want to see a bench with 9 players who are 25 and above. All left or didn’t sign for various reasons but Goncalves, Mir and Vitinha might be playing for us now had we been in a situation to use 5 subs.
 

Ironfistedmonk

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The trouble is if they don’t get game time then how do we ever know if they’re good enough? As a club who have said a lot about becoming self sufficient and promoting via the academy I don’t want to see a bench with 9 players who are 25 and above. All left or didn’t sign for various reasons but Goncalves, Mir and Vitinha might be playing for us now had we been in a situation to use 5 subs.

The opposite to that is you have a bench with only 2 or 3 players the manager trusts to come on as you have so few senior players you have had to fill it with kids who aren't ready, I can see us being the team to use the least amount of subs next season as we just don't have the personnel
 

VancouverWolf

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The trouble is if they don’t get game time then how do we ever know if they’re good enough? As a club who have said a lot about becoming self sufficient and promoting via the academy I don’t want to see a bench with 9 players who are 25 and above. All left or didn’t sign for various reasons but Goncalves, Mir and Vitinha might be playing for us now had we been in a situation to use 5 subs.
I sometimes think Nuno wanted to wait too long with the younger players, eg Kilman and MGW.
 

SteveBullsKnee

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The opposite to that is you have a bench with only 2 or 3 players the manager trusts to come on as you have so few senior players you have had to fill it with kids who aren't ready, I can see us being the team to use the least amount of subs next season as we just don't have the personnel
I don’t see that at all, if you have 3 you trust that’s still 2 more to be used from a large bench.
 

DanishWolf

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The trouble is if they don’t get game time then how do we ever know if they’re good enough? As a club who have said a lot about becoming self sufficient and promoting via the academy I don’t want to see a bench with 9 players who are 25 and above. All left or didn’t sign for various reasons but Goncalves, Mir and Vitinha might be playing for us now had we been in a situation to use 5 subs.

Fair points, especially about using the academy and personally I like nothing better than seeing a young player take his chance.

I think with regards to knowing whether they are good enough,unless a player from U23 seem extremely talented in training and when used in preseason games, it seems to be that it's better tested at Championship or League One level before being near a PL place

But maybe I'm looking for some balance. Obviously there should be opportunities for young players on the bench, and as you say the 5 subs rule is obvious for that.
But I also want to be sure that we've enough quality in depth to cope with injuries and loss of form without suffering.
 

JOSWolf

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On the youngsters my main issue is will Bruno use them and trust them? I'm not so sure he will. Take the recent game against Besiktas for example. Raul gets injured and he brings on Donck when he could easily have brought on Cundle, who is better than Donck going forwards or Corbeanu who is an attacker. Little point saying the kids could get a chance when they probably hardly will and players will be played out of position instead. Cundle last season was another example of this. Neves gets injured and we see hardly anything of Cundle. Unless Bruno really trusts and is prepared to use a number of these kids and not just leave them on the bench then the youth line isn't really a great argument and the squad is therefore left far too light.
 

SteveBullsKnee

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On the youngsters my main issue is will Bruno use them and trust them? I'm not so sure he will. Take the recent game against Besiktas for example. Raul gets injured and he brings on Donck when he could easily have brought on Cundle, who is better than Donck going forwards or Corbeanu who is an attacker. Little point saying the kids could get a chance when they probably hardly will and players will be played out of position instead. Cundle last season was another example of this. Neves gets injured and we see hardly anything of Cundle. Unless Bruno really trusts and is prepared to use a number of these kids and not just leave them on the bench then the youth line isn't really a great argument and the squad is therefore left far too light.
Re besiktas I’d say it was more beneficial getting game minutes into dendoncker than Cundle with the season looming.
 

wolvesaywe

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Will you be critical if we havent signed a striker and midfielder by the time the window closes? Do you think our squad is anywhere near strong enough when we have 9 subs and can use 5? Do you think this squad is well equipped to start the season with the current numbers available and get goals and win games? Sorry for all the questions but just genuinely interested as not meaning to sound bad but you never seem to have any real critical points against the club which is you choice of course but just wonder if you would be critical at any point or not.
The problem JOS is that everybody is so fixated on the first game of the season that you're almost mocked for stating that we should wait and see where we are at the end of August

If we haven't got a CM and/or CF then that's the time to lose it with the club, if that's your thing

It we have filled the gaps with quality though will the same people slinging accusations of incompetence etc etc come back and apologise or will they just sit and wait for the next opportunity to throw shade at the club?

Frankly the Mix is an embarrassment these days. Hard to believe it's made up mainly of grown men
 

The Wolf In The North

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The problem JOS is that everybody is so fixated on the first game of the season that you're almost mocked for stating that we should wait and see where we are at the end of August

If we haven't got a CM and/or CF then that's the time to lose it with the club, if that's your thing

It we have filled the gaps with quality though will the same people slinging accusations of incompetence etc etc come back and apologise or will they just sit and wait for the next opportunity to throw shade at the club?

Frankly the Mix is an embarrassment these days. Hard to believe it's made up mainly of grown men

The downside is that the window remains open til the end of August for other clubs too. The good scenario is that Fosun buckle up, stick to their plan, secure a couple of quality signings in the next few weeks to augment the existing squad without panicking or breaking their financial model. The bad scenario is that, as well as trying to secure those players, we suddenly get an acceptable bid for Neves or RAN or Neto, even Traore, and then there are more holes to fill on top of what we already know. And it's entirely possible, because we know that the club are willing to sell if they receive bids of certain value.

You're right in that the time to judge is September rather than now, but they haven't half set themselves a hard task if the dominos start falling wrong.

In the end, though, I really don't see the point of panic or hand-wringing. It affects nothing and just encourages ulcers. What will be will be, etc; there's more to life than hitting refresh and eyeing twitter for breadcrumbs.
 

JOSWolf

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The problem JOS is that everybody is so fixated on the first game of the season that you're almost mocked for stating that we should wait and see where we are at the end of August

If we haven't got a CM and/or CF then that's the time to lose it with the club, if that's your thing

It we have filled the gaps with quality though will the same people slinging accusations of incompetence etc etc come back and apologise or will they just sit and wait for the next opportunity to throw shade at the club?

Frankly the Mix is an embarrassment these days. Hard to believe it's made up mainly of grown men

Trouble is if our lack of options start resulting in us not winning games at the start of the season you can well understand fans frustrations, particularly when there are several games we should be capable of winning but if say a lack of a proper striker costs us points you can well imagine the justifiable, in my opinion, reaction.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

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The problem JOS is that everybody is so fixated on the first game of the season that you're almost mocked for stating that we should wait and see where we are at the end of August

If we haven't got a CM and/or CF then that's the time to lose it with the club, if that's your thing

It we have filled the gaps with quality though will the same people slinging accusations of incompetence etc etc come back and apologise or will they just sit and wait for the next opportunity to throw shade at the club?

Frankly the Mix is an embarrassment these days. Hard to believe it's made up mainly of grown men
You're missing the point.

People would be happy to wait until the end of August if we hadn't loaned Fabio Silva. When you loan Silva, it's right to presume that a replacement will be brought in straight away. Failure to do so is ridiculous.

As a result, we're not ready for Leeds (as it stands).

With central midfield, you can give them until the end of August because we have Moutinho, Neves & Dendoncker, so whilst we need one, it's not pressing for 3/4 games unless injury hits, which haven't at the moment.

Of course, you could balance that out by saying we've had four years to strengthen the midfield, so people can rightly say that, but overall I'd agree that you can judge them on the midfield by the end of the window.

The striker situation is all our own doing though, and the only embarrassing thing is that we are eight days away from the Premier League season without a fully fit striker - which is entirely down to Shi/Sellars.
 

Westbakejazz

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as a mark of respect can we rename this thread ?

all suggestions welcome

jeff scores an overhead kick winner in the dying seconds of extra time ?
Reports are saying Jeff and sellers were nowhere near this signing, guo and Mendez brokered the deal
 

wolvesjoe

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Argued elsewhere that the sudden reversal of policy is largely a product of analysing the coming impact of the Financial Sustainability rules, a pirates' charter if ever there was one.

But the consequences of a risk averse approach in January may well also be a catalysing factor. . The dramatic fall from top 6 candidate to 10th place must have been a wake up call for Fosun.
 
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Deleted member 8455jwf

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I criticised not signing Palhinha. When you get a talent like Nunes and Palhinha trundles around the pitch barely kicking a ball forwards for Fulham you see the levels to this game. He's a half decent player, but not convinced Palhinha a big upgrade on Donk. Nunes may be our best midfielder by the end of this season.

At least our most important in many games we got bossed in the middle of the park. Having a guy who can take ball back to goal, beat a man and give Neves some space will mean he needs to dominate games.

He absolutely can, but he will be up against a direct competitor to his job in Portugal side. Pressure on - rise too it.
 

Bill S Preston Esq.

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The problem JOS is that everybody is so fixated on the first game of the season that you're almost mocked for stating that we should wait and see where we are at the end of August

If we haven't got a CM and/or CF then that's the time to lose it with the club, if that's your thing

It we have filled the gaps with quality though will the same people slinging accusations of incompetence etc etc come back and apologise or will they just sit and wait for the next opportunity to throw shade at the club?

Frankly the Mix is an embarrassment these days. Hard to believe it's made up mainly of grown men
Deserved a bump. For obvious reasons.
 

lets all have a disco

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I criticised not signing Palhinha. When you get a talent like Nunes and Palhinha trundles around the pitch barely kicking a ball forwards for Fulham you see the levels to this game. He's a half decent player, but not convinced Palhinha a big upgrade on Donk. Nunes may be our best midfielder by the end of this season.

At least our most important in many games we got bossed in the middle of the park. Having a guy who can take ball back to goal, beat a man and give Neves some space will mean he needs to dominate games.

He absolutely can, but he will be up against a direct competitor to his job in Portugal side. Pressure on - rise too it.
Said it a lot when we was after palhinha that I didn't see him as being much better than donk....the donk haters wouldn't have it mind..... palhinha is more aggressive granted, that's not difficult mind but I think donk edged him in almost every other department.....not by much but didn't see point of palhinha, especially when neves wasn't looking like moving....
 
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Deleted member 8455jwf

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Said it a lot when we was after palhinha that I didn't see him as being much better than donk....the donk haters wouldn't have it mind..... palhinha is more aggressive granted, that's not difficult mind but I think donk edged him in almost every other department.....not by much but didn't see point of palhinha, especially when neves wasn't looking like moving....
I was ok with him in the price range as it looked like we weren't spending much and we needed another player in but yeah he looked leaden footed and slow.
 

Wonder Boyo

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Face, egg, and you hate it!
I'm not a fan of going after the naysayers (except the ones who gave some proper libel abuse). All of us had some doubt about where things were going to some degree, but when someone who got it terribly wrong doubles down like that to protect their ego it's a sorry state of affairs. Think Souness would tell them to stop with the antics take it like a man.
 
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