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Kingswood Wolf

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Matt Murray says Bruno kept playing Hwang to prove a point (the point being he's crap) to Sellars and Jeff and show them up, so he and Mendes can recruit instead. Comes straight from the urinals at The Combermere this one. I did then say why didn't Bruno do the same with Fabio and the fella ****ed on my suede shoes. Maybe Bruno actually likes Fabio, or maybe this is all *******s.
 

WickedWolfie

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No-one said it would be easy. But the point is that wholesale changes CAN work, that's all

I have [ahem] absolute faith in Sellers, Shi and the [cough-cough] recruitment team to continue doing a sterling job and deliver a sensational summer of change and recruitment! Onwards and Upwards [gag]
Hmmmm.... Is that the world's biggest ever gobstopper or is your tongue VERY firmly in your cheek?????
 

North West Wanderer

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I'm not really sure what your point is? You asked when do wholesale changes ever work?
You've been given examples where they patently do. Then you move the goalposts. Pretty sure you actually are being obtuse!:cool:

Anyway...have we lost anyone else yet?
I was getting at when they work in our situation, which I’m still waiting for.
 

North West Wanderer

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Posted it up thread mate, in 8/9 new starters in 10 odd out and won the Europa League.

Mind you there recruitment included Ocampos (who bossed us) in Quarter imo, Kounde who Chelsea bid £60M for, En-Nesyri who is a really good player, Luuk De Jong who is a decent enough target man who moved to Barca, Regullion on loan, Diego Carlos who I think Newcastle are after (albeit he definitely has a big rick in him and is a penalty machine but also a dominant 1v1 defender if that makes sense).

They signed a few duds as well, ironically the ones who cost a bit more mostly.

If we could sign a group of people this summer, Sevilla's recruitment lot would be right up there. Lille's as well.
Thanks mate
 

TheRetroChief

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I was getting at when they work in our situation, which I’m still waiting for.
Put the goalposts back where they were and move on. Or just stand there waiting like a silly nana. Your initial supposition was inherently flawed. Naturally the higher up the foodchain you are the harder it is. I shouldn't have to spell that out.

However, do wholesale changes EVER work? Absolutely yes.

Insinuating that they never do is up there with "You can't win anything with kids"
 

North West Wanderer

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Put the goalposts back where they were and move on. Or just stand there waiting like a silly nana. Your initial supposition was inherently flawed. Naturally the higher up the foodchain you are the harder it is. I shouldn't have to spell that out.

However, do wholesale changes EVER work? Absolutely yes.

That kind of statement is up there with "You can't win anything with kids"
Christ I wasn’t aware I had to be so literal on here or have I stumbled on Molineux Way?!

I’m having a look on here between work items, so forgive me for being less than detailed which everyone but you had clearly understood.

So for the sake of you and you only…

Can anyone share a time where a club in our position in the Premier League made wholesale changes to a squad which resulted in a team moving forward?

Is there a model we could follow? Or is it like I suspect an inherently flawed model which has worked sporadically in other leagues, and occasionally at that?
 

Hoganstolemywife

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Christ I wasn’t aware I had to be so literal on here or have I stumbled on Molineux Way?!

I’m having a look on here between work items, so forgive me for being less than detailed which everyone but you had clearly understood.

So for the sake of you and you only…

Can anyone share a time where a club in our position in the Premier League made wholesale changes to a squad which resulted in a team moving forward?

Is there a model we could follow? Or is it like I suspect an inherently flawed model which has worked sporadically in other leagues, and occasionally at that?
usually it's a disaster....but palace did it well last season
 

AndyY

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you can sell a new exciting funded project vision to good and rated players. From our position now, its less easy. Our recruitment has to be spot on.
i would have thought it was easier to sell a project to a player based on 7th,7th,13th and 10th in the PL (and a european run and a cup SF) than based on 15th in the Championship.
 

Hoganstolemywife

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The only source I have at Wolves (works at the club, told me Nuno was sacked in response to the Burnley defeat - after the fact admittedly) told me this morning that he suspects Lage is going and going soon. He has no concrete evidence but, like I say, he works at the club so it's not exactly a finger in the air.
Apparently the department he works in (a commercial element) has been told to hold off on a few things for a couple of days.

Heard this from one other (seemingly trustworthy) guy. Smoke, fire?
 

TheRetroChief

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Christ I wasn’t aware I had to be so literal on here or have I stumbled on Molineux Way?!

I’m having a look on here between work items, so forgive me for being less than detailed which everyone but you had clearly understood.

So for the sake of you and you only…

Can anyone share a time where a club in our position in the Premier League made wholesale changes to a squad which resulted in a team moving forward?

Is there a model we could follow? Or is it like I suspect an inherently flawed model which has worked sporadically in other leagues, and occasionally at that?
You could argue Newcastle this January for a start. They were almost dead and buried
 

Hoganstolemywife

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Palace improved by 4 points, and two league positions from 14th to 12th.

Is that real progress down to the restructure, or simply natural ups and downs that happen?
Good point. The only reason I bring them up is because they were so heavily tipped to struggle - by myself included.
 

Woburn Wolf

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Lets get some facts on the table then.


With only 14 games of the season to go, Wolves were in 7th place, six points behind Mutd, but with two games in hand. We were tightly grouped with Arsenal, West Ham and Spurs. To be in this position was an outstanding achievement, especially considering that the first 3 games were lost so narrowly. The record over those 21 games was W12 D4 L5, ( 3 of the defeats were 1-0 fiercely contested games against bg 6 teams. ). Goals for 23, against 15.

Again an outstanding achievement, to be close to 2 points a game over such an extended period. The figures also show that it was Wolves' defensive strength, which allowed for such a high % of points based on a relatively modest goal scoring total.

But that is a key part of how a good team will challenge the established elite, as Leicester have shown in several seasons.

So rather than making grand analytical statements, that are based on rejecting the achievements of this season and its actual potential, look more closely at the player and tactical issues that disrupted that potential. The loss of Adama, in my view, will figure highly, as will injuries to Podence and Neves, two of our most essential players. We were treading a fine line in terms of the balance between defence and attack, and those losses, without strengthening the squad in January, go a long way to explaining our dreadful run-in.

The Premier is an incredibly demanding league and these small errors/deficiencies will be ruthlessly found out. As happened.
I agree and I would add Kilman to Neves and Podence. For the most part he had been immense prior to his injury.
 

North West Wanderer

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You could argue Newcastle this January for a start. They were almost dead and buried
Yep good shout.
Good point. The only reason I bring them up is because they were so heavily tipped to struggle - by myself included.
Yep I think the high turnover was needed and made them stand still, which is better than a lot expected.
 

WKFWolf

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The only source I have at Wolves (works at the club, told me Nuno was sacked in response to the Burnley defeat - after the fact admittedly) told me this morning that he suspects Lage is going and going soon. He has no concrete evidence but, like I say, he works at the club so it's not exactly a finger in the air.
Apparently the department he works in (a commercial element) has been told to hold off on a few things for a couple of days.

Heard this from one other (seemingly trustworthy) guy. Smoke, fire?
have you been hacked?
 

WickedWolfie

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Palace improved by 4 points, and two league positions from 14th to 12th.

Is that real progress down to the restructure, or simply natural ups and downs that happen?
Given the number of players they had out of contract and moving on at the end of last season their own fans were expecting a relegation battle at best. Instead they improved their position with new young players and don't forget that they made the FA Cup semi final.
 

AndyY

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Lets get some facts on the table then.


With only 14 games of the season to go, Wolves were in 7th place, six points behind Mutd, but with two games in hand. We were tightly grouped with Arsenal, West Ham and Spurs. To be in this position was an outstanding achievement, especially considering that the first 3 games were lost so narrowly. The record over those 21 games was W12 D4 L5, ( 3 of the defeats were 1-0 fiercely contested games against bg 6 teams. ). Goals for 23, against 15.

Again an outstanding achievement, to be close to 2 points a game over such an extended period. The figures also show that it was Wolves' defensive strength, which allowed for such a high % of points based on a relatively modest goal scoring total.

But that is a key part of how a good team will challenge the established elite, as Leicester have shown in several seasons.

So rather than making grand analytical statements, that are based on rejecting the achievements of this season and its actual potential, look more closely at the player and tactical issues that disrupted that potential. The loss of Adama, in my view, will figure highly, as will injuries to Podence and Neves, two of our most essential players. We were treading a fine line in terms of the balance between defence and attack, and those losses, without strengthening the squad in January, go a long way to explaining our dreadful run-in.

The Premier is an incredibly demanding league and these small errors/deficiencies will be ruthlessly found out. As happened.
100%
And thats where the deficiencies in the squad size and quality came home to roost.
Lage stated he wanted 2 quality people for each position. He did not have them.
When everyone is fit and available we have 13/14 decent first team players only. And they were not all fit and available, far from it.
 

DanishWolf

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Palace improved by 4 points, and two league positions from 14th to 12th.

Is that real progress down to the restructure, or simply natural ups and downs that happen?

I fail to see the big revolution at Palace or the amazing job Viera has done. Now I will grant them though, that he's transformed the style as well as renewing an ageing squad. But its hardly a major revolution is it?
 

AndyY

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Good point. I was trying to focus on the loss to our offensive ability but you are right, we also lost our best defender
And Boly and Jonny just coming back from long term injury/ illness, and not up to speed.
 

Contrarian

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We need a plan, an identity that unifies the team, Palace under Vieira had that, it was a sum of its parts and arguably did extremely well given the position they found themselves in at this time last year.

I kind of agree, but then Palace improvement was as much down to a couple of key players excelling. Change nothing at all but take Gallagher (on last seasons form) from them and give him to us and we would be immensely improved. Give us Guehi too and we'd leave Palace trailing in the dust. It's not been all roses for Palace, either. Edouard burst on the scene, scored a few, had people like me complaining we should have bought him. Then he went "Hwang" and has only scored 1 this year. Looking a bit of a flop now.

Managers matter, but it's mainly the players. Both Nuno and Bruno have been made to attempt to turn pigs ears into silk purses. No manager on earth can turn Coady/Donk/Hwang/Saiss/Fabio etc into an entertaining silky football machine. The best they can do is result-driven football.

And our players, when they talk, often talk about how good the team mentality is, how much they enjoy working with each other. John Ruddy's farewell message, for example. Team spirit helped us overachieve at times. When confidence drops, we get the low points. But yes, the existing squad, that Nuno built, was built to maximise results playing a certain way. Change of identity will need change of players, much like it did when Nuno arrived and lots departed and a new wave arrived.

Like many, I do doubt Bruno is the man to do that, though.
 

Ogerp

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Rumour doing the rounds (sorry for pun) that a big refurb is to be done before the upcoming Internationals.

New urinals to be fitted with blue and white stripes and a picture of a thrush.
 

Contrarian

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Matt Murray says Bruno kept playing Hwang to prove a point (the point being he's crap) to Sellars and Jeff and show them up, so he and Mendes can recruit instead. Comes straight from the urinals at The Combermere this one. I did then say why didn't Bruno do the same with Fabio and the fella ****ed on my suede shoes. Maybe Bruno actually likes Fabio, or maybe this is all *******s.

That's so funny! Not the only time Bruno rumoured to be playing someone to prove they are crap, too. Maybe he is a hidden genius? Has led a team to 10th, while also clearly demonstrating that 80% of the squad are worse than Norwich and we need to spend big.

Shame about the shoes.
 

steve vena

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No, results are the main thing, give me 1-0 home wins and 0-0 draws away and a cabinet full of trophy's over entertainment....
BUT we have neither!

As for so many players wanting away from a team thats finished 10th in the best league in the world you have to ask why?...
Money? Style of play? Lack of trophy's? .... the Coach?
Lack of ambition? Maybe some of the players can see what we see? Clueless on the football side of the boardroom?
 

top fox wolf

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I kind of agree, but then Palace improvement was as much down to a couple of key players excelling. Change nothing at all but take Gallagher (on last seasons form) from them and give him to us and we would be immensely improved. Give us Guehi too and we'd leave Palace trailing in the dust. It's not been all roses for Palace, either. Edouard burst on the scene, scored a few, had people like me complaining we should have bought him. Then he went "Hwang" and has only scored 1 this year. Looking a bit of a flop now.

Managers matter, but it's mainly the players. Both Nuno and Bruno have been made to attempt to turn pigs ears into silk purses. No manager on earth can turn Coady/Donk/Hwang/Saiss/Fabio etc into an entertaining silky football machine. The best they can do is result-driven football.

And our players, when they talk, often talk about how good the team mentality is, how much they enjoy working with each other. John Ruddy's farewell message, for example. Team spirit helped us overachieve at times. When confidence drops, we get the low points. But yes, the existing squad, that Nuno built, was built to maximise results playing a certain way. Change of identity will need change of players, much like it did when Nuno arrived and lots departed and a new wave arrived.

Like many, I do doubt Bruno is the man to do that, though.
Yes interesting that ruddy never mentioned the manager in his fearwell post come to think of it haven't heard any wolves player big Bruno up .please Jeff if you read this post new positive manager please.
 
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