Perspective - Championship Top Ten

[Manic88]

Why do we think we should be automatically in the Play-offs or above?
Let's look at the top ten:

1Cardiff 50 years out of the top flight, spent years trying to build a squad for promotion

2Hull 3rd Season out of the premiership

3Middlesbrough 4th Season out of the premiership

4Crystal Palace 8th Season out of the premiership

5Leicester 9th season out of the premiership, 4th since promotion from league 1

6Watford 6th season out of the premiership

7Millwall 22nd season out of the top flight, 3rd since promotion from league 1

8Nottm Forest 14th season out of the premiership, 5th since promotion from league 1

9Leeds United 9th season out of the premiership, 3rd since promotion from league 1

10Brighton 29th season out of the top flight, 2nd since promotion from league 1

It takes a lot of time to build a squad for promotion from this league. Boro had some great players and a promising youth system when they came down too.

We're in a good position financially so hopefully we can do it quickly, but why would we want to go up with this squad that was completly out of its depth there anyway? don't give me any of that "avoided relegation twice" $$$$$$$$ - we weren't one of the worst 3 teams each time but we were damn close.

We've got a chance to start afresh and build a squad/club from the bottom up that can play, its not going to happen overnight, but we will never never see Wolves as an established Premier League team if we jump from McLeish to Bruce to O'Driscal every 2 seasons.

 

[Sandwell Wolf]

We also won't see Wolves as an established Premier League team if we continue to lose 3-0 at home to the likes of Peterborough.

 

[Mr Wolf]

We will always go up with a squad that's out of its depth, I wish people would stop banging on about building a premiership team in the championship. It's not going to happen, we can't even build a championship team FFS.

Mark Kennedy, Ince, Miller, Rae were all considered to be premiership players before thats why Hayward didn't invest look what happened there.

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

We think we should be up there because our side is FAR superior to most if not all there.

 

[Manic88]

We think we should be up there because our side is FAR superior to most if not all there.

Why is it?

 

[Manic88]

We will always go up with a squad that's out of its depth, I wish people would stop banging on about building a premiership team in the championship. It's not going to happen, we can't even build a championship team FFS.

Mark Kennedy, Ince, Miller, Rae were all considered to be premiership players before thats why Hayward didn't invest look what happened there.

Swansea & Norwich weren't out of their depth. You don't need to build a premiership squad in the champ, just need to NOT build a one dimensional one like we had before and like those "heroes" Bruce/Mcleish build

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

Because they all have either got promoted from this very league and/or stayed in the Premier League for a few years.

Are their many better keepers than Ikeme in the league?
Are there many better CB pairings than Johnson and Berra?
Foley was our player of the year in this very division when we won it.
Ward plays international football and was an average LB in the Premier League.
Henry has captained a side in the Premier League for years.
Doumbia was proclaimed as 'Yaya Toure of the Championship', by many.
Sako can win games on his own.
Pennant has played in a Champions League Final!!
Doyle was wanted by Arsenal about 18 months ago and must be one of the best all round attackers in the division.
SEB has won the golden boot in this division a few times.

Thats the first XI we play.

The rest of the squad consist of players who have contributed to winning this league or players that Solbakken has signed and of course JOH.


The side is good enough, which means you MUST look at the manager.

A lot respond with 'they've achieved all they can here', 'no motivation' and all that rubbish. Its SS job to get them motivated and playing well - which he clearly cannot do.

If this side showed the right application and desire we would be top 6 - without question.

Could you imagine these lacklustre performances in this division under MM/Bruce?
Seriously?
No, course not - which should throw the idea that they've 'achieved all they can', and aren't motivated out the window because we all know under a different manager this would not be the case.


Talksport were talking about Berg getting sacked and said it was a huge club for this division for someone to take over - that only Wolves and Leeds are bigger than Blackburn.

Which is true, we should be top 6 and how people are accepting this garbage is astounding.

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

Another way, if I offered you the chance to swap players with any other side in the division who would you want?

Being very generous;
- Cardiff
- Leicester
- Bolton
- Blackburn

Thats being very generous, I dont think I would swap for any of those, but could understand why people would say any of those 4 teams, so fair enough.

Anyone else?

Which shows we should not be getting played off the park at home to Peterboro!!

 

[RJs Tankard]

Are their many better keepers than Ikeme in the league? Not many.
Are there many better CB pairings than Johnson and Berra? Defensively, they're amongst the best. As ball players once they've won the ball, they're average.
Foley was our player of the year in this very division when we won it. Foley has been disappointing for the past three seasons since and never recaptured that form consistently.
Ward plays international football and was an average LB in the Premier League. He plays for the Republic of Ireland - not Brazil. He was one of our worst defenders, in the worst defense in the Premiership......
Henry has captained a side in the Premier League for years. He captained a side that was out of its depth in the Premiership for three years.
Doumbia was proclaimed as 'Yaya Toure of the Championship', by many. And?
Sako can win games on his own. No he can't - otherwise he would be.
Pennant has played in a Champions League Final!! Yes, years ago - he's $$$$ now.
Doyle was wanted by Arsenal about 18 months ago and must be one of the best all round attackers in the division. He's scores around 6 goals a season. Hardly a statistic that makes opposition defenders $$$$ themselves. He also wouldn't get in their side anyway. Arsenal once signed Francis Jeffers. What's he done since?
SEB has won the golden boot in this division a few times. Yes, years ago. He's been in and out of the side since then, and is clearly not the player he once was.

You're still living in 2007. A lot has happened since then. Players get older. Players become poorer. Some get better. Some become complacent because they've been at the same place for too long.

Does Alex Ferguson stick with the same bunch of players that wins him the Premiership each year? No, because he recognises that to keep things fresh and moving, you have to continually keep building and developing your squad.

This squad has detoriated big time. Yes, the manager is getting things wrong - but the players are also very poor too.

Sick of hearing all this "they did it before, so they can do it again" $$$$$$$$.

 

[Japan Wulf]

Are their many better keepers than Ikeme in the league? Not many.
Are there many better CB pairings than Johnson and Berra? Defensively, they're amongst the best. As ball players once they've won the ball, they're average.
Foley was our player of the year in this very division when we won it. Foley has been disappointing for the past three seasons since and never recaptured that form consistently.
Ward plays international football and was an average LB in the Premier League. He plays for the Republic of Ireland - not Brazil. He was one of our worst defenders, in the worst defense in the Premiership......
Henry has captained a side in the Premier League for years. He captained a side that was out of its depth in the Premiership for three years.
Doumbia was proclaimed as 'Yaya Toure of the Championship', by many. And?
Sako can win games on his own. No he can't - otherwise he would be.
Pennant has played in a Champions League Final!! Yes, years ago - he's $$$$ now.
Doyle was wanted by Arsenal about 18 months ago and must be one of the best all round attackers in the division. He's scores around 6 goals a season. Hardly a statistic that makes opposition defenders $$$$ themselves. He also wouldn't get in their side anyway. Arsenal once signed Francis Jeffers. What's he done since?
SEB has won the golden boot in this division a few times. Yes, years ago. He's been in and out of the side since then, and is clearly not the player he once was.

You're still living in 2007. A lot has happened since then. Players get older. Players become poorer. Some get better. Some become complacent because they've been at the same place for too long.

Does Alex Ferguson stick with the same bunch of players that wins him the Premiership each year? No, because he recognises that to keep things fresh and moving, you have to continually keep building and developing your squad.

This squad has detoriated big time. Yes, the manager is getting things wrong - but the players are also very poor too.

Sick of hearing all this "they did it before, so they can do it again" $$$$$$$$.

Cheers, mate. You are unfortunately spot on. Saved me the trouble of writing it.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Are their many better keepers than Ikeme in the league? Not many.
Are there many better CB pairings than Johnson and Berra? Defensively, they're amongst the best. As ball players once they've won the ball, they're average.
Foley was our player of the year in this very division when we won it. Foley has been disappointing for the past three seasons since and never recaptured that form consistently.
Ward plays international football and was an average LB in the Premier League. He plays for the Republic of Ireland - not Brazil. He was one of our worst defenders, in the worst defense in the Premiership......
Henry has captained a side in the Premier League for years. He captained a side that was out of its depth in the Premiership for three years.
Doumbia was proclaimed as 'Yaya Toure of the Championship', by many. And?
Sako can win games on his own. No he can't - otherwise he would be.
Pennant has played in a Champions League Final!! Yes, years ago - he's $$$$ now.
Doyle was wanted by Arsenal about 18 months ago and must be one of the best all round attackers in the division. He's scores around 6 goals a season. Hardly a statistic that makes opposition defenders $$$$ themselves. He also wouldn't get in their side anyway. Arsenal once signed Francis Jeffers. What's he done since?
SEB has won the golden boot in this division a few times. Yes, years ago. He's been in and out of the side since then, and is clearly not the player he once was.

You're still living in 2007. A lot has happened since then. Players get older. Players become poorer. Some get better. Some become complacent because they've been at the same place for too long.

Does Alex Ferguson stick with the same bunch of players that wins him the Premiership each year? No, because he recognises that to keep things fresh and moving, you have to continually keep building and developing your squad.

This squad has detoriated big time. Yes, the manager is getting things wrong - but the players are also very poor too.

Sick of hearing all this "they did it before, so they can do it again" $$$$$$$$.

Two things, ball playing and defensively sound centre backs are a commodity in football. There's very few if any that can do both well at this level.
Also the squad and team has been freshened up. The example you used makes a couple of changes a season bit wholesale ones. Evolution not revolution.

They are also at a far lower level than they have been playing at for 3 years. It's not unreasonable to expect the team to be doing a lot better

 

[North West Wanderer]

Cheers, mate. You are unfortunately spot on. Saved me the trouble of writing it.

IMO he isn't and far from it

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

These players aren't over the hill now, they're still young.

SEB, Foley, Henry, Ward would all be how they were in the past under a different manager.

And Henry wasn't out his depth for 3 years, this side ALWAYS competed under MM.

What you say about some of our players is right but a new manager should rejuvenate them because, answer honestly, if Bruce (easy example) was manager would these players be under-performing? No.

Also what teams would you swap sides with then???

 

[WalsallWolf]

Are their many better keepers than Ikeme in the league? Not many.
Are there many better CB pairings than Johnson and Berra? Defensively, they're amongst the best. As ball players once they've won the ball, they're average.
Foley was our player of the year in this very division when we won it. Foley has been disappointing for the past three seasons since and never recaptured that form consistently.
Ward plays international football and was an average LB in the Premier League. He plays for the Republic of Ireland - not Brazil. He was one of our worst defenders, in the worst defense in the Premiership......
Henry has captained a side in the Premier League for years. He captained a side that was out of its depth in the Premiership for three years.
Doumbia was proclaimed as 'Yaya Toure of the Championship', by many. And?
Sako can win games on his own. No he can't - otherwise he would be.
Pennant has played in a Champions League Final!! Yes, years ago - he's $$$$ now.
Doyle was wanted by Arsenal about 18 months ago and must be one of the best all round attackers in the division. He's scores around 6 goals a season. Hardly a statistic that makes opposition defenders $$$$ themselves. He also wouldn't get in their side anyway. Arsenal once signed Francis Jeffers. What's he done since?
SEB has won the golden boot in this division a few times. Yes, years ago. He's been in and out of the side since then, and is clearly not the player he once was.

You're still living in 2007. A lot has happened since then. Players get older. Players become poorer. Some get better. Some become complacent because they've been at the same place for too long.

Does Alex Ferguson stick with the same bunch of players that wins him the Premiership each year? No, because he recognises that to keep things fresh and moving, you have to continually keep building and developing your squad.

This squad has detoriated big time. Yes, the manager is getting things wrong - but the players are also very poor too.

Sick of hearing all this "they did it before, so they can do it again" $$$$$$$$.

Great post RJ. Why the points you have made are so blind to some really fails me. In particular the points I myself have bolded.

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

So which sides would you want instead of ours??!?!?!

 

[North West Wanderer]

Great post RJ. Why the points you have made are so blind to some really fails me. In particular the points I myself have bolded.

Because we disagree. That's why!

 

[raging bull]

so which sides would you want instead of ours??!?!?!

stales ...............

 

[Jameswwfc]

That's the problem with quite a few on here, by names yes we should be up there but this isn't championship manager. Doyle, yes good by name but actually isn't that good anymore. Could go through most of the team and say the same. Solbakken has to take some of the blame to.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Because they all have either got promoted from this very league and/or stayed in the Premier League for a few years.

Are their many better keepers than Ikeme in the league?
Are there many better CB pairings than Johnson and Berra?
Foley was our player of the year in this very division when we won it.
Ward plays international football and was an average LB in the Premier League.
Henry has captained a side in the Premier League for years.
Doumbia was proclaimed as 'Yaya Toure of the Championship', by many.
Sako can win games on his own.
Pennant has played in a Champions League Final!!
Doyle was wanted by Arsenal about 18 months ago and must be one of the best all round attackers in the division.
SEB has won the golden boot in this division a few times.

Thats the first XI we play.

The rest of the squad consist of players who have contributed to winning this league or players that Solbakken has signed and of course JOH.


The side is good enough, which means you MUST look at the manager.

A lot respond with 'they've achieved all they can here', 'no motivation' and all that rubbish. Its SS job to get them motivated and playing well - which he clearly cannot do.

If this side showed the right application and desire we would be top 6 - without question.

Could you imagine these lacklustre performances in this division under MM/Bruce?
Seriously?
No, course not - which should throw the idea that they've 'achieved all they can', and aren't motivated out the window because we all know under a different manager this would not be the case.


Talksport were talking about Berg getting sacked and said it was a huge club for this division for someone to take over - that only Wolves and Leeds are bigger than Blackburn.

Which is true, we should be top 6 and how people are accepting this garbage is astounding.

Football isn't played on paper, on paper Swansea's squad didn't look particularly special last season but they did well.

There's soo much more to football including confidence which is a massive part just ask Torres.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Absolutely. And that's what the manager needs to sort and quick. Because other managers have been able to do more with these players

 

[306NOTOUT]

Brendan Rogers is having exactly the same problems at Liverpool.

Absolute mess left by previous manager and trying to change those players to play differently.

On paper should they be where they are in the Premiership?
Should they be losing 3-1 at stoke?

 

[kennyB]

Any of the following might come in handy:
Austin...Burnley
Rhodes...Blackburn
Murray...Palace
All better than anyone we have

 

[Knightly]

How many teams have our wage budget and have spent 10 million?

Good managers get their players to perform above themselves. Some fans are seriously deluded, we shouldn't be relegation candidates.

 

[wwfc9]

Cheers, mate. You are unfortunately spot on. Saved me the trouble of writing it.

100 per cent spot on !! Far to sensible post for this forum !!

 

[JOSWolf]

I knew this season wouldnt be plain sailing but it has been shocking so far. To lose 3-0 at home to PBoro is nothing short of a disgrace.
We havent looked convincing in virtually any game this season and that is a big worry for me.

 

[North West Wanderer]

I knew this season wouldnt be plain sailing but it has been shocking so far. To lose 3-0 at home to PBoro is nothing short of a disgrace.
We havent looked convincing in virtually any game this season and that is a big worry for me.

Precisely.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Any of the following might come in handy:
Austin...Burnley
Rhodes...Blackburn
Murray...Palace
All better than anyone we have

We don't get enough pens for him to be any good here.

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

I know its not played on paper, but it helps having the best team.

Still people are ignoring my question - does that mean I am right and we do in fact have the best side?

Also another simple question.

Would this side be where we are now had Bruce being in charge?

Because the players 'aren't motivated' and 'achieved all they can' I asume you all think that whoever was in charge we would deliver these abject performances....

 

[andyc225]

I know its not played on paper, but it helps having the best team.

Still people are ignoring my question - does that mean I am right and we do in fact have the best side?

Also another simple question.

Would this side be where we are now had Bruce being in charge?

Because the players 'aren't motivated' and 'achieved all they can' I asume you all think that whoever was in charge we would deliver these abject performances....

No, we don't have the best side, otherwise we'd be top of the league. Hope that helps.

With Bruce in charge we'd most probably be floundering as well.

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

Oh dear andy.

We do have the best side and if we had a different manager we would be near the top of the league.


Whose side would you rather than ours?


And "with Bruce in charge we'd most probably be floundering as well". Thats a very vague post.

According to you we have an excellent manager, certainly one better than Bruce, so why cant you say with any real conviction that Bruce would be doing as bad as golden boy Solbakken?

Or is it because you know its a load of crap?

 

[306NOTOUT]

There's a difference between having the best players and the best team.

Teams win things individuals don't

 

[Paul76]

We definitely don't have the best squad at the moment. Look at our bench on a match day. We're down to bare bones. Stale simply doesn't have any options. He has to keep flogging the Horse over and over again hoping to get that little bit extra out of it.

Would other managers like: Warnock, Mick, Big Sam and big Eck be doing better with the squad we've got? Almost definitely is my answer.

But we're trying to change the DNA of our club. We're changing the club from top to bottom. New structures have been put into place. A new football philosophy is being implemented by Stale and our new Coaches.

It's not really happening at the moment, but Rome wasn't built in a day. We've not been successful for decades. Things had to change. Times are changing.

We have to follow the likes of Albion and Swansea. These clubs have proved with limited resources and a certain kind of playing philosophy, there is still hope of at least competing with the Sharks of the Premier league.

Whether you like it or not, Steve Morgan is going to see this transition through.

Ps, excuse any spelling mistakes as I'm on ipad.

 

[andyc225]

Oh dear andy.

We do have the best side and if we had a different manager we would be near the top of the league.


Whose side would you rather than ours?


And "with Bruce in charge we'd most probably be floundering as well". Thats a very vague post.

According to you we have an excellent manager, certainly one better than Bruce, so why cant you say with any real conviction that Bruce would be doing as bad as golden boy Solbakken?

Or is it because you know its a load of crap?

There's a difference between having the best players and the best team.

Teams win things individuals don't

306NOTOUT's post. In answer to your question though I wouldn't have anyone's squad apart from ours, that's mainly because I'm a Wolves fan, not a fan of any other team in the league. We need to make improvements to our squad, not salivate over some other club's squad.

Who would we have signed under wor Brucie? The mighty Elmohamady? That world-beating striker Nick Proschwitz who has scored 2 goals this season? David Meyler perhaps? What about ex-Boggie Robert Koren?

 

[The Professional]

There's a difference between having the best players and the best team.

Teams win things individuals don't

At the moment we seem to have some decent players, but we are a poor team looking poorly coached, playing boring, poor football.

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

Which is down to the manager.

Quite clearly these guys have a good team, for 2 years they stayed in the Premier League when in terms of quality they should have got relegated.

So now we are admitting we do have the best players. Good.

So why on earth are you settling for this season?!?!


The point I'm trying to make is this.
With these players, which are up there with the best in the division, we should be up there.
We are not.
So you have to look at why that is.
Its not the players because we have established that nobody could offer a suggestion to a group of players that they would rather have.
So where next to look?
THE MANAGER.

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

How you can have a pop at Bruce after he has got a worse side than us to 2nd place after 24 games is ridiculous.


And Paul - the idea is right but unfortunately what is being delivered is completely the opposite to that idea.
We are NOT Swansea, we play two banks of four and try to grind out results.
That is not going to change, this is SS style and thats that.
If we were trying something new I'd half understand it, but we are not.
He is a British type manager, but because he is a foreigner there is this horrible mis-conception that he will make us into some great passing side. Its not happening!

 

[andyc225]

Which is down to the manager.

Quite clearly these guys have a good team, for 2 years they stayed in the Premier League when in terms of quality they should have got relegated.

So now we are admitting we do have the best players. Good.

So why on earth are you settling for this season?!?!


The point I'm trying to make is this.
With these players, which are up there with the best in the division, we should be up there.
We are not.
So you have to look at why that is.
Its not the players because we have established that nobody could offer a suggestion to a group of players that they would rather have.
So where next to look?
THE MANAGER.

Who said that we had the best squad? What I said was we shouldn't concern ourselves with someone else's squad. You're living in 2007 as someone else said; just because they did well back then (with the help of Jarvis and Kightly I might add), doesn't mean that they can do it today. Let's have a little audit of our "first choice" squad, shall we:

• Ikeme - Has impressed this season.
• Foley - Has struggled to recapture any previous form. Never passes to gold shirts.
• Johnson - Has been solid.
• Berra - Has been solid.
• Ward - After all these years shoehorned into the left back position he still can't defend.
• Pennant - Has been awful since he got here. One reasonable game at Blackpool. A signing based mostly on convenience.
• Henry - Still costs his team with his obligatory bookings and reds.
• Doumbia - Out of form at the moment but we've seen what he's capable of, so it's not the greatest concern.
• Sako - A good signing.
• SEB - Still looks cumbersome and overweight after all this time. Doesn't score enough goals.
• Doyle - Holds the ball up, but doesn't score many goals.

And there you have it. Our first team on the whole isn't great. Our squad players don't offer much more.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Swansea & Norwich weren't out of their depth. You don't need to build a premiership squad in the champ, just need to NOT build a one dimensional one like we had before and like those "heroes" Bruce/Mcleish build

Swansea and Norwich had freak seasons last year they are not the norm. Lets not forget we got up easy in the end as champions and stayed up for 2 seasons playing this terrible boring one dimensional football

But again Stale is not a manger who's teams have ever played good football, nor has he showed any signs that he wants to sign the type of players who can do this or showed any signs that he's able to coach players into doing this. He's a basic 4-4-2 man and has taken a good squad of players and failed to get them performing.

 

[Paul76]

Swansea and Norwich had freak seasons last year they are not the norm. Lets not forget we got up easy in the end as champions and stayed up for 2 seasons playing this terrible boring one dimensional football

But again Stale is not a manger who's teams have ever played good football, nor has he showed any signs that he wants to sign the type of players who can do this or showed any signs that he's able to coach players into doing this. He's a basic 4-4-2 man and has taken a good squad of players and failed to get them performing.

Ignore the glaring mitigating circumstances and facts.

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

No-one can offer any other side that they would rather have, so I took that to mean we have one of the best squads.

And yes I am living in 2007, because I know what these players can do.
Your right in saying what you say with your alternative thoughts on our players because at the moment they are rubbish, but mine is also right because we KNOW they can be too good for this league - which means the manager is not getting everything out he players, and others would.

You are accepting mediocrity and not blaming the manager.