Obsession with resale values

[Wolfy McWolf-Face]

Clearly I'm behind the trend these days but why does almost every player discussed turn into a debate about resale value? So many moaning about no message from Jota and saying he has no loyalty yet most on here only willing to look at players as short term gains.

I understand what it means but almost every player linked who is 27/28 is now apparently past it and has no resale value according to the mix. Yet somebody in their early 20's has no experience?! WTF?!

In my book 27/28 is a player who should be in their prime. Signing them is about the here and now and what they can do for us immediately, not about what we can sell them for later on. Thats the trade off.

We are not a selling club or a stepping stone per Nuno. So we need some players at their peak to compliment our growing squad of young stars.

 

[colwall wolf]

Imagine this forum would had kittens when Moutinho was first linked!

 

[Flea]

Well,you just cannot forget the FFP rules.
They are what they are and if we are to compete in the bracket players that is in their peak,28 years old..then we have no chance.
This is for clubs like Man U and Liverpool for example.

We have to do things a little bit differently to stand a chance,especially long term.

This said,I don´t see us getting rid of the mighty mexican Raul for example..so we will hold on to those players that is vital for us.Resale value is secondary here..but overall it will not work for us in most cases.

 

[AndyWolves]

Imagine this forum would had kittens when Moutinho was first linked!

No way can he play with Neves in a two....

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

Imagine this forum would had kittens when Moutinho was first linked!

I dont think its necessarily the mixs poster own personal views. Its more to do with our view on the clubs strategy of buying young to sell higher ie. Jota. Spending 30m on a 28 year old i would be all for if its corona or semedo, but i dont see this as wolves strategy based on 95% of our transfers to date. Only rui, who has a longer shelf life as a gk than an outfield player, and moutnho who was 5m and whos written down value could be taken into the accounts. Raul is a good case in point. He is worth far more to us than the 30m we paid, or the 70m figures bandied about but the reality of a club coming in spending 70m is extremely unlikely, so as each transfer window passes, the less likely it is that we would recoup our outlay let alone make a profit on him. Thats no bad thing and i would love it if he stayed for the rest of his career.

 

[Ponty]

Not obsessed but it would be poor business not having regard to the depreciation rate of any asset. Buy three 28 year olds on 4 year contracts and in four years they’ll be worth very little. Moutinho cost £5m so cannot depreciate much and shows that we will but in older players but not for big fees.

As I posted elsewhere we need to make money on some transfers to finance other signings and wages as our income is far Jess than the Sky Six. Everton might well shoot up the league and might overtake us as it will be temporary.look at where Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are now - not long ago both were throwing millions at players in the hope of getting promotion. We need a sustainable model and resale value is an integral part of that.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Part of the reason established Prem clubs get themselves into financial trouble is because they spend big money and give big wages to players who’ve already peaked in their careers, you’re just writing off huge sums. Look at how many ex premier league teams are in the Championship and below, Portsmouth probably the worst example.

We have rich owners but we are not a rich club, I think many don’t realise that

 

[AndyWolves]

Think about players like houses

Everton have spaffed a load of money on Rodriguez, Allan and Doucoure. When they come to replace them in 2-3-4 years time they'll be worth nothing so Everton will be back to square one.


If you get players who have value when you come to upgrade you can spend more on your upgrades.

Take RWB for example, we have an extra £13m we can spend now compared to waiting until doc becomes 32-33 and needs to be moved on.

 

[The Wolf Of Wombourne]

If you constantly sign players with the view to selling them on your club will never grow or compete. There needs to be a balance of players that can improve and those who can improve you now.

If you sign a couple of 27 year olds who improve you massively, get you into Europe they pay for themselves.

To keep the players we’ve got we can’t just sign kids who can improve. Everyone seems to think that’s what it’s about but the truly big successful clubs have a mixture of both.

Too many of our fans see us as a club to buy cheap sell big, that model will work short term and keep you a mid sized club, look at Southampton. If that’s where we want to be great, if not we need to see the bigger picture.

 

[lobodelsur]

Part of the reason established Prem clubs get themselves into financial trouble is because they spend big money and give big wages to players who’ve already peaked in their careers, you’re just writing off huge sums. Look at how many ex premier league teams are in the Championship and below, Portsmouth probably the worst example.

We have rich owners but we are not a rich club, I think many don’t realise that

Maybe Wigan now edge it ?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Clearly I'm behind the trend these days but why does almost every player discussed turn into a debate about resale value? So many moaning about no message from Jota and saying he has no loyalty yet most on here only willing to look at players as short term gains.

I understand what it means but almost every player linked who is 27/28 is now apparently past it and has no resale value according to the mix. Yet somebody in their early 20's has no experience?! WTF?!

In my book 27/28 is a player who should be in their prime. Signing them is about the here and now and what they can do for us immediately, not about what we can sell them for later on. Thats the trade off.

We are not a selling club or a stepping stone per Nuno. So we need some players at their peak to compliment our growing squad of young stars.

Because people are convinced it's the Fosun way. Totally ignoring the acquisitions of Moutinho, Marcal, Raul and Patricio.

 

[Deleted member 11332]

Simple answer to the title, because clubs are. Footballers are an asset and one that depreciates after a certain age and most clubs can't afford to continually spend huge sums with no returns.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Think about players like houses

Everton have spaffed a load of money on Rodriguez, Allan and Doucoure. When they come to replace them in 2-3-4 years time they'll be worth nothing so Everton will be back to square one.


If you get players who have value when you come to upgrade you can spend more on your upgrades.

Take RWB for example, we have an extra £13m we can spend now compared to waiting until doc becomes 32-33 and needs to be moved on.

What about the potential revenue gain from finishing higher up in the table with 3 top players at their peak for 3-4 years?
I can't see everton regretting these signings down the line. I can see Mouse Kean having little or no resale value in 3 or 4 years time.

 

[AndyWolves]

What about the potential revenue gain from finishing higher up in the table with 3 top players at their peak for 3-4 years?
I can't see everton regretting these signings down the line. I can see Mouse Kean having little or no resale value in 3 or 4 years time.

Potential Vs actual

They probably won't regret the signings but they'll be back to square one again. Whereas our strategy means we'll have more funds / capital available and won't be nobbled by FFP

 

[Wolfy McWolf-Face]

Simple answer to the title, because clubs are. Footballers are an asset and one that depreciates after a certain age and most clubs can't afford to continually spend huge sums with no returns.

Simple question. Why are the 'Big 6' not doing this? More often than not they buy the established names with no thought for resale values. Jota and Doc are recent examples that we can relate to.

They are more often than not at the right end of the table and all 'appear' to be investing in stadiums and established players without major concerns for resale values etc. None of them seem to have worrying finances either.

I understand people talking about depreciation of assets and trying to relate players to houses (I'm an FCCA) but football is unlike any other business. Players are indeed assets but the goal of a football team is to win games and trophies. These bring sponsor deals, tv revenues etc which dwarf what we get currently.

I'm not advocating we go spend stupid money on any old has beens and dont want to buy trophies but if we want to compete and win them we will need to sign some established players at their peaks.

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

Because people are convinced it's the Fosun way. Totally ignoring the acquisitions of Moutinho, Marcal, Raul and Patricio.

Because marcal and moutinho are not large figures and rui will likely be able to play at this level for a number of years yet. Raul is the only anomily

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Because marcal and moutinho are not large figures and rui will likely be able to play at this level for a number of years yet. Raul is the only anomily

Large figures?

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

Large figures?

Yes. 1.5m and 5m

 

[Wolfy McWolf-Face]

Looks like Semedo on the way. At 26 would be in the player at his peak category I was referring to. If we pay the 30m or 40m suggested and keep him a few years presumably no resale value???

Not saying anybody is wrong but don't think all transfers will be based on resale value. A good balance needs to be struck.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Yes. 1.5m and 5m

I can accept that and Marcal is priced so that it's literally no risk. But Moutinho has zero resale value and by the end of his contract will have cost us circa £25M. That really doesn't fit the mould does it?

 

[Deleted member 11332]

Simple question. Why are the 'Big 6' not doing this? More often than not they buy the established names with no thought for resale values. Jota and Doc are recent examples that we can relate to.

They are more often than not at the right end of the table and all 'appear' to be investing in stadiums and established players without major concerns for resale values etc. None of them seem to have worrying finances either.

I understand people talking about depreciation of assets and trying to relate players to houses (I'm an FCCA) but football is unlike any other business. Players are indeed assets but the goal of a football team is to win games and trophies. These bring sponsor deals, tv revenues etc which dwarf what we get currently.

I'm not advocating we go spend stupid money on any old has beens and dont want to buy trophies but if we want to compete and win them we will need to sign some established players at their peaks.

Jota is 23. Name one player over 28 that has been signed for big money by one of the top 6 sides. they rarely if ever do it.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Potential Vs actual

They probably won't regret the signings but they'll be back to square one again. Whereas our strategy means we'll have more funds / capital available and won't be nobbled by FFP

Assuming we get the most of the talent from these kids, which is a big assumption.
I also think its pessimistic to assume you'll only get 3 years out of those three. They are 27 not 32.
I think comparing the signing of Fabio Silva to James Rodriguez for example, I'm inclined to think ours is the riskier approach.

 

[AndyWolves]

Assuming we get the most of the talent from these kids, which is a big assumption.
I also think its pessimistic to assume you'll only get 3 years out of those three. They are 27 not 32.
I think comparing the signing of Fabio Silva to James Rodriguez for example, I'm inclined to think ours is the riskier approach.

Silva is our future whereas James is their now, who do Everton have lined up to replace James? Tom Davies?

Ours is the more ambitious approach

 

[BigSteve]

Because marcal and moutinho are not large figures and rui will likely be able to play at this level for a number of years yet. Raul is the only anomily

Exactly. And Raul was worth far more than we paid, we could have sold him the next day for significantly more.

"Why do we care about the resale value of players?" Is a truly bizarre question to ask.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Imagine this forum would had kittens when Moutinho was first linked!

Not at £5M it wouldn't. When it's £25M+ though people do wonder. I've seen Raul cited but the initial loan proved his value so a permanent deal was pretty much risk free...

 

[WickedWolfie]

Not obsessed but it would be poor business not having regard to the depreciation rate of any asset. Buy three 28 year olds on 4 year contracts and in four years they’ll be worth very little. Moutinho cost £5m so cannot depreciate much and shows that we will but in older players but not for big fees.

As I posted elsewhere we need to make money on some transfers to finance other signings and wages as our income is far Jess than the Sky Six. Everton might well shoot up the league and might overtake us as it will be temporary.look at where Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are now - not long ago both were throwing millions at players in the hope of getting promotion. We need a sustainable model and resale value is an integral part of that.

Re your first para, agreed. Similarly Marcal.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Silva is our future whereas James is their now, who do Everton have lined up to replace James? Tom Davies?

Ours is the more ambitious approach

Who have we got that's like James now?
I don't think this sort of succession planning usually ends up working.
Maybe they will be in a better position as a club to attract the next James?

 

[WickedWolfie]

I can accept that and Marcal is priced so that it's literally no risk. But Moutinho has zero resale value and by the end of his contract will have cost us circa £25M. That really doesn't fit the mould does it?

If he helps the younger midfield players develop and increase in value...

 

[AndyWolves]

Who have we got that's like James now?
I don't think this sort of succession planning usually ends up working.
Maybe they will be in a better position as a club to attract the next James?

Okay, we sell Doc now for £15m and buy Semedo for £30m ish.

In reality its cost us £15m and we've significantly upgraded.

If we don't sell Doc then that costs us £30m in a few years

We've also got Hoever to go into that position, and when he's ready we'll sell Semedo and hopefully get more than we paid for him. We've also got Matheson coming through too

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

If he helps the younger midfield players develop and increase in value...

Agreed. But that in itself is an admission of there being more than a policy of young with a high resale value.

You'd have to be a complete idiot to not recognise that buying young players with a high ceiling is the favoured policy. But older heads are in the mix too.

When the likes of Moutinho and Raul move on, we'll need older players to carry on the tutelage. Either new signings or retained mentored players.

There's more to our transfer policy than just young and high resale.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Okay, we sell Doc now for £15m and buy Semedo for £30m ish.

In reality its cost us £15m and we've significantly upgraded.

If we don't sell Doc then that costs us £30m in a few years

We've also got Hoever to go into that position, and when he's ready we'll sell Semedo and hopefully get more than we paid for him. We've also got Matheson coming through too

But we are talking two established players here at the peak of our abilities? I don't fully understand your point here.

 

[I'm the Wanderer]

Potential Vs actual

They probably won't regret the signings but they'll be back to square one again. Whereas our strategy means we'll have more funds / capital available and won't be nobbled by FFP

Not necessarily back to square one. If these p!ayers do well, other good players will be more eager to join so then the level might stay high.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

But we are talking two established players here at the peak of our abilities? I don't fully understand your point here.

I don't think Semedo has peaked. I do think he's already better than Doc though. So any money lost in upgrading is negated and then some by a future sale.

 

[Woburn Wolf]

Because marcal and moutinho are not large figures and rui will likely be able to play at this level for a number of years yet. Raul is the only anomily

As good strikers often are.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Simple question. Why are the 'Big 6' not doing this? More often than not they buy the established names with no thought for resale values. Jota and Doc are recent examples that we can relate to.

They are more often than not at the right end of the table and all 'appear' to be investing in stadiums and established players without major concerns for resale values etc. None of them seem to have worrying finances either.

I understand people talking about depreciation of assets and trying to relate players to houses (I'm an FCCA) but football is unlike any other business. Players are indeed assets but the goal of a football team is to win games and trophies. These bring sponsor deals, tv revenues etc which dwarf what we get currently.

I'm not advocating we go spend stupid money on any old has beens and dont want to buy trophies but if we want to compete and win them we will need to sign some established players at their peaks.

The big 6 have bigger incomes than us and the rest of the league so can afford to write off bigger sums of money but if you look at their recent business more often than not they’re doing the same thing as us just on a bigger scale. Liverpool for example funded most of their transfer dealings the last few years by selling Coutinho and Suarez for huge profits. Too many of our fans have such a short term view of what we’re doing. Buying and then selling on for profit Costa, Cavaleiro, Jota has moved us from mid table championship to challenging top end of Premier League. By the time they were sold none of those 3 were starters either.

 

[Wolfy McWolf-Face]

Good points, well made.

 

[BlahBlah]

Imagine this forum would had kittens when Moutinho was first linked!

A few posts said "who?"

 

[Metal Wolf89]

Simply we cannot afford buying players in their prime and shipping them out for hardly nothing when they move on/come to end of contract.

 

[Contrarian]

Think about players like houses

Everton have spaffed a load of money on Rodriguez, Allan and Doucoure. When they come to replace them in 2-3-4 years time they'll be worth nothing so Everton will be back to square one.


If you get players who have value when you come to upgrade you can spend more on your upgrades.

Take RWB for example, we have an extra £13m we can spend now compared to waiting until doc becomes 32-33 and needs to be moved on.

Players as houses? It's possible to imagine a club that continually makes wise investments, selling players at profit. Yet never winning anything and being stuck in League 1 or the championship for ever.

I thought we wanted to win trophies? Which is it? If we'd bought a couple of 30 year olds in the winter window, at their peak but with no resale value, yet they'd led us to win the Europa League, would that be bad business?

if Everton finish in the top 4, they won't care, the money and prestige from the Champions League will more than cover it.

 

[WW1963]

This is how Fosun have chosen to deal with FFP. Some feel it is a wise decision based on their long term vision. Others don't.