Not a bad time to discuss the team re-build

[TheConcourse]

Ahhhh this is the we’ve lost so Neves is **** thread


Molineux Mix, becoming the biggest pile of **** going. Reactionary and full of people wanting to sound like football geniuses!

Can’t get my head around the criticism of Neves. One of the only players we have who never stops running. Literally played on his own in CM over the last few weeks. Crazy.

Put him in an attacking side and he runs riot.

 

[Mugwump]

Can’t get my head around the criticism of Neves. One of the only players we have who never stops running. Literally played on his own in CM over the last few weeks. Crazy.

Put him in an attacking side and he runs riot.

I think he just looks more effective. He isnt ever going to be the headline grabber, but he's one of those players, especially in a top side who you would notice more when he isnt there.

 

[oldgolded]

Just an idea, and probably not a particularly good one, but if we do decide to play with a back four, I would advocate playing with two defensive midfielders to bolster what is effectively going to be a more vulnerable defence, and could Coady play alongside Neves as a defensive midfielder? He has proved that he can pass and defend, and he is a great captain.
So utilising 4 2 3 1

Sa

Semedo
Kilman
Boly/A N Other
Ait Nouri

Neves
Coady

Podence
MGW
Neto

Jiminez/New striker

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Said it elsewhere, this current squad doesnt need a rebuild, it needs some upgrades. Still plenty of talent here right now. A new center back, midfielder and striker to improve us and freshen things up and we will be fine. If we lose Mouts, probably 2 new midfielders. Neves going will be our biggest issue as we then need a total rebuild of the engine room. We wont struggle for wide attackers, we have plenty of solid options there. We need a striker though as well as another center half.

Think that’s a very balanced post.

Reality is that the club is being run on a sensible, conservative basis. That means not changing half the squad in a window, spending (net) 100m+ and then potentially facing a relegation fight if new players don’t settle into the team or get injured. Think the club will plan around completing Traore’s sale, the Hwang purchase, whatever happens with Trincao, and then resolving what happens with Mouts and Saiss. A think the situation with Raul is a concern, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he were to move somewhere like MLS and for another senior striker to arrive.

 

[freezin]

We weren't going to spend £50M on Dias and I cant remember us ever being properly linked to Fernandes. Pretty easy to say we should have just dropped £100M on two players to improve us

We spent the vast majority of the Jota money (which we kindly offered Liverpool some kind of catalogue payment scheme, only for us to then go and take a loan out) on Silva.

You could argue we'll eventually bank £10m but we significantly weakened the squad.

I see no reason why we couldn't have sold Jota then found £5m to buy Dias, Botman, Sanchez, Caletta-Carr, Cancelo,

I realise the timings are all over the place, (Dias and Cancelo predated Jotas move) it was just illustrative.

 

[reanswolf]

Think that’s a very balanced post.

Reality is that the club is being run on a sensible, conservative basis. That means not changing half the squad in a window, spending (net) 100m+ and then potentially facing a relegation fight if new players don’t settle into the team or get injured. Think the club will plan around completing Traore’s sale, the Hwang purchase, whatever happens with Trincao, and then resolving what happens with Mouts and Saiss. A think the situation with Raul is a concern, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he were to move somewhere like MLS and for another senior striker to arrive.

That's the thing, I don't see that it is being run 'sensibly'.

£35m on Fabio (again, not his fault) whilst ignoring key areas we cannot afford to strengthen.
More like lunacy in footballing terms I'm afraid.

 

[jonesy]

It’s going to be massive because of the complete lack of upgrading or refresh the last 3 years -Fosuns fault

Ruddy
Hoover
Saiss
Coady
Marcal
Donk
Boly
Hwang ??
Silva
Mgw(he’s not a pl footballer)
Raul(maybe)
Traore

All or most of that list out

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

It’s going to be massive because of the complete lack of upgrading or refresh the last 3 years -Fosuns fault

Ruddy
Hoover
Saiss
Coady
Marcal
Donk
Boly
Hwang ??
Silva
Mgw(he’s not a pl footballer)
Raul(maybe)
Traore

All or most of that list out

More than hlf tht list won't be going anywhere, MGW will be a big player for us next year. Many are desperate for him to fail, but if we'd signed a young championship player who had his numbers (with plenty of games to go) they'd be delighted.

 

[sc91]

That's the thing, I don't see that it is being run 'sensibly'.

£35m on Fabio (again, not his fault) whilst ignoring key areas we cannot afford to strengthen.
More like lunacy in footballing terms I'm afraid.

Its been said time and time and time and time again. Fabio was the balance for getting the likes of Moutinho on the cheap.

 

[Scallywolf]

Can’t get my head around the criticism of Neves. One of the only players we have who never stops running. Literally played on his own in CM over the last few weeks. Crazy.

Put him in an attacking side and he runs riot.

Absolutely agree.

Can you imagine us without him. I dread to think!

Look at Jota playing in an attacking side. Different class.

 

[oldgolded]

The problem is to play expasive exciting sexy football you have to have the players to carry that through, and they are going to cost a fortune. The alternative is to be like Leeds who ship a shedload of goals and will likely get relegated this season. Our main strength is that we are generally organised and keep it tight. You have to play to the strengths of the players you have at your disposal or finish up like the aforementioned Leeds. I suppose the secret is to try and achieve the right balance by playing a slightly more expasive formation without sacrificing our defensive solidity.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Absolutely agree.

Can you imagine us without him. I dread to think!

Look at Jota playing in an attacking side. Different class.

We beat Soton and drew with Burnley without him. Actually scored 3 against Soton.

We obviously aren't better without him long term, but we also don't absolutely fall off a cliff like some pretend we would.

Last year we won one lost one without him.

First season won 2 drew one without him.

He has been a big player for us, no question but people pretend we'd be like Norwich without him.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

We spent the vast majority of the Jota money (which we kindly offered Liverpool some kind of catalogue payment scheme, only for us to then go and take a loan out) on Silva.

You could argue we'll eventually bank £10m but we significantly weakened the squad.

I see no reason why we couldn't have sold Jota then found £5m to buy Dias, Botman, Sanchez, Caletta-Carr, Cancelo,

I realise the timings are all over the place, (Dias and Cancelo predated Jotas move) it was just illustrative.

What? You want us to spend £50M on players who cost over £110M and then 3 others.

So we are selling Jota for a world record fee then.

Baffling comment.

 

[jrpb-3]

Think as well as upgrades/improvements in areas outlines, we also still need some more cover in a few positions, also quite a few of the squad have been here a while now, so maybe its just time to freshen things up, move a few on for a new challenge and get some fresh blood in. Clear at the moment with Semedo injury that cover there is lacking a bit and also that we currently don't have players to be able to mix up the system much i.e. back 4 or 2 up top.
I don't think we need a big clear out or wholesale changes, but we do need a step by step plan with priorities for which areas get addressed first (so may take a few windows),.
Of course all depends on what players are available and that want to come here, knowing what you want is part of the problem, being able to get them within the budget you have is the second part, sometimes easier said than done.
We should have the resources to make decent progress in freshening up/upgrading the squad/team.

 

[Scallywolf]

What? You want us to spend £50M on players who cost over £110M and then 3 others.

So we are selling Jota for a world record fee then.

Baffling comment.

I think ‘freezin’ was talking about us buying one of those players not all of them!

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I think ‘freezin’ was talking about us buying one of those players not all of them!

Ha makes sense, yeah suppose that is true.

Dias and Cancelo already gone though as he points out. We certainly should have spent the Fabio money better but I think one transfer is a bit overblown, the consistently average to poor transfers has meant we have basically stood still.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

We have a yes man but jeff shi calls the shots.

And you know this how?

 

[reanswolf]

Its been said time and time and time and time again. Fabio was the balance for getting the likes of Moutinho on the cheap.

Pure conjecture.

 

[hollo]

Its been said time and time and time and time again. Fabio was the balance for getting the likes of Moutinho on the cheap.

Surely there were other seasoned professionals under mendes agency who could hit the ground running for 35 million.

 

[sc91]

Pure conjecture.

But its a near enough fact, we danced with the devil and then paid the price.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

You think he is better than Pedri, De Jong or Busquets I don't even know what to say.

It's all about opinions but De Jong isn't any better for me. Busquets isn't going to be around forever.
See Neves being more Real madrid anyway.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

It's all about opinions but De Jong isn't any better for me. Busquets isn't going to be around forever.
See Neves being more Real madrid anyway.

Laughable for anyone to think De Jong isn't better. Was an essential player in a run to Champions League semi final, and was a key player in a title winning side. If you think they both came free for the same price and would have the same level of suitors I don't know what to say.

 

[reanswolf]

But its a near enough fact, we danced with the devil and then paid the price.

I’ve hardly ever heard this before.
It still doesn’t explain buying a youngster for £35m when we neglect key weaknesses.

If you have to overpay to balance the Mendes bank balance, at least do it on a player and position you need.

 

[Andywolf74]

I’d like to see a central midfield pairing of Neves and a Podence given a go in the remaining games. Neves is great at recycling the ball and Podence has got the ability to take players on, which we desperately need in midfield. I personally think Hwang is decent but has been so starved of service, as have Raul and Silva for most of the season.

 

[Contrarian]

Just an idea, and probably not a particularly good one, but if we do decide to play with a back four, I would advocate playing with two defensive midfielders to bolster what is effectively going to be a more vulnerable defence, and could Coady play alongside Neves as a defensive midfielder? He has proved that he can pass and defend, and he is a great captain.
So utilising 4 2 3 1

Sa

Semedo
Kilman
Boly/A N Other
Ait Nouri

Neves
Coady

Podence
MGW
Neto

Jiminez/New striker

We would have to play with defensive midfielders, because that's all we have! We don't have attacking midfielders. Attacks come from playing the ball out to wide wing backs and that is all. But having seen Coady struggle in the Championship week after week in midfield, not sure it's viable at this much higher level.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I’d like to see a central midfield pairing of Neves and a Podence given a go in the remaining games. Neves is great at recycling the ball and Podence has got the ability to take players on, which we desperately need in midfield. I personally think Hwang is decent but has been so starved of service, as have Raul and Silva for most of the season.

Neves will be off Man Utd & Arsenal ready to firm up interest, Moutinho no new deal expect a different team

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Laughable for anyone to think De Jong isn't better. Was an essential player in a run to Champions League semi final, and was a key player in a title winning side. If you think they both came free for the same price and would have the same level of suitors I don't know what to say.

And why hasn't Neves been involved in anything like that? Because he's been here.

 

[hollo]

Sell to buy. Clean sweep.
Dendocker 10 million
Gibbs white 10 million
Traore 25 million
Sanderson 2.5 million
Giles 2.5 million
Raul 10 million
Cutrone 2 milloon
Fabio Silva 10 million
Connor ronan 1 million
Renat Dadashov 250k
Jordao 250k


Release
Boly
Moutinho
Hoever
Marcal
Saiss
Shabani

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

And why hasn't Neves been involved in anything like that? Because he's been here.

Yeah, exactly. He is here, has been for nearly 5 years at this point. De Jong got signed in that time period btw, wonder why they didn't come in for Neves who would undoubtedly be much cheaper.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Thing is....we see it's a big summer every summer and it rarely turns out to be! I thought we'd stitched ourselves up this summer but it turned out alright. Season petering out but it's still been one that exceeded my expectations.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Thing is....we see it's a big summer every summer and it rarely turns out to be! I thought we'd stitched ourselves up this summer but it turned out alright. Season petering out but it's still been one that exceeded my expectations.

Only way we are getting a refresh is flipping players, but we can't seem to do it. Adama going should help us get some deals in that are longer term structured. Neves going would allow a big refresh - although if it is true he'd be a straight swap for Palhinha absolutely no thanks.

Palhinha + another then that could be good.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Yeah, exactly. He is here, has been for nearly 5 years at this point. De Jong got signed in that time period btw, wonder why they didn't come in for Neves who would undoubtedly be much cheaper.

See if they do this summer, I guess.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

See if they do this summer, I guess.

I think he could easily go to United in summer. He is clearly better than McFred or an ancient Matic, Arsenal probably although they decided to keep Xhaka instead in summer. Don't see another top club he improves.

 

[Matt]

We could already have a decent amount coming in to be fair:

Vinagre £10m
Adama £25m
Cutrone £5m

Throw in a couple of fringe players and we could have over £40m to spend without losing any of our key players (by that I mean Neves).

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

We could already have a decent amount coming in to be fair:

Vinagre £10m
Adama £25m
Cutrone £5m

Throw in a couple of fringe players and we could have over £40m to spend without losing any of our key players (by that I mean Neves).

Yeah, you'd hope we bank £35M straight off for Adama/Vinagre. Cutrone we aren't ever getting a penny for, Bloke is 2 in 24 in all comps.

Might be able to generate close to £15M for Sanderson/Giles which is a massive win and great production from the academy. Maybe get £5M for Boly?

Then you have salary clearances of Joao, Saiss, Marcal - that must be best part of £10M a year.

If we can keep Neves and get a CB, CM, ST in then that would be ideal.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, you'd hope we bank £35M straight off for Adama/Vinagre. Cutrone we aren't ever getting a penny for, Bloke is 2 in 24 in all comps.

Might be able to generate close to £15M for Sanderson/Giles which is a massive win and great production from the academy. Maybe get £5M for Boly?

Then you have salary clearances of Joao, Saiss, Marcal - that must be best part of £10M a year.

If we can keep Neves and get a CB, CM, ST in then that would be ideal.

Yeah maybe I was being a tad too optimistic with Cutrone! I’ve just read Barca are trying to get out of paying the agreed fee for Adama though, and are trying to do a swap instead which wouldn’t be ideal.

 

[Contrarian]

Absolutely agree.

Can you imagine us without him. I dread to think!

Look at Jota playing in an attacking side. Different class.

I don't think it's that Liverpool are an "attacking" side, more that they can afford world class players in every position. And have a few more on the bench, just in case.

Put Jota in an attacking side like Leeds and see what happens. Even if he scored 15 or 16, it wouldn't be enough to balance the 80+ they will concede.

We are a counter-attacking side because that's the best bang-for-buck we could afford. Attackers are the most expensive players , by far (Fabio's fee, for example, is because he's rumoured to be a natural goal scorer, not a natural long-passer). You pay more and more for fewer extra goals.

 

[hollo]

We could already have a decent amount coming in to be fair:

Vinagre £10m
Adama £25m
Cutrone £5m

Throw in a couple of fringe players and we could have over £40m to spend without losing any of our key players (by that I mean Neves).

We need to spend more than 40 million.

 

[bod101]

Yeah maybe I was being a tad too optimistic with Cutrone! I’ve just read Barca are trying to get out of paying the agreed fee for Adama though, and are trying to do a swap instead which wouldn’t be ideal.

Maybe a swap for some other players, just not trincao as he is no where near the same value

 

[Matt]

We need to spend more than 40 million.

Quite possibly but it’s not a bad starting point.