Welcome Notice

Hello and welcome to Molineux Mix a forum for Wolves fans by Wolves fans.

Register Log in

MOTD Tonight

Fuse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
65
Reaction score
210
I'd be interested to know whether those saying it was a genuine attempt to win the ball and shouldn't have been a red would be saying the same thing had Moutinho ended up with a broken ankle.

Genuine attempt or not, going in studs up is dangerous. As a professioal football player Milivojevic knows that full well and knows he's risking it if he gets it wrong, which he did.

I agree we don't want to turn it into a non-contact sport, but you have to draw the line somewhere as nobody wants to see players lose months of their career.

Genuine attempt or not, a dangerous tackle is a dangerous tackle and getting the ball doesn't change that.
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
Thats only your opinion it was out of control. I thought he want for the ball, got the ball and unfortunately the follow through got Mouts. The modern day approach to tackling is ruining the game imo. Its probably bought to us by the same people who outlawed telling kids who didnt win things at school that had failed.
Just because I think a a studs up challenge at ankle height is red card worthy doesn’t mean I want to ban tackling, or introduce compulsory LGBTQ+ Rainbow Frappuccino’s at half time.
I like a physical battle and full bore tackle as much as the next man. But execute it correctly, keep your foot down and don’t risk someone’s career. ‘Winning the ball’ doesn’t mean you have permission to Kevin Muscat everyone.
 
Last edited:

PulverWolf

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
779
Reaction score
718
The bottom line is that Mouts was vertical in trying to win the ball , Milivojevic was horizontal with no control over where he would end up and travelling at full speed , as others have said we are lucky Mouts didnt have his leg planted as it would have been a horror show.
Red card and no argument.
 
D

Deleted member 11332

Guest
Just because I think a a studs up challenge at ankle height is red card worthy doesn’t mean I want to ban tackling, or introduce compulsory LGBTQ+ Rainbow Frappuccino’s at half time.
I like a physical battle and full bore tackle as much as the next man. But execute it correctly, keep your foot down and don’t risk someone’s career. ‘Winning the ball’ doesn’t mean you you have position to Kevin Muscat everyone.

I think the rules are **** personally, people talk about it being dangerous but they encourage people to dangle a leg like moutinho did, which often ends up with you getting hurt more than if you went in full blooded.

But you are correct studs up and connect with the player the ref has no choice.
 

WickedWolfie

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
30,204
Reaction score
29,286
Thats only your opinion it was out of control. I thought he want for the ball, got the ball and unfortunately the follow through got Mouts. The modern day approach to tackling is ruining the game imo. Its probably bought to us by the same people who outlawed telling kids who didnt win things at school that had failed.
I suspect that the rule change was probably informed at least in part by legal advice about the increasing probability of legal action against both players and FAs/match officials if nothing was done.
 

Liskeard wolf

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
403
Reaction score
386
Milevojevic is not a dirty player and I don't think there was any intent. But was reckless and a definite red by today's standards. Don't know which tackle Woy was watching
 

KnowNuttin

Groupie
Joined
Mar 1, 2019
Messages
226
Reaction score
553
Going by today's laws it was a red card, there is no argument. People saying it's not a red are really saying they don't agree with the laws, which is a entirely different thing. If Woy thinks the laws of the game were not followed then he should appeal... If he does appeal, he will lose and I think everyone knows that
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
The bottom line is that Mouts was vertical in trying to win the ball , Milivojevic was horizontal with no control over where he would end up and travelling at full speed , as others have said we are lucky Mouts didnt have his leg planted as it would have been a horror show.
Red card and no argument.
He had every control where he was going to end up! There direction he was facing!
The studs up argument is being contradicted on here, even with force and contacting the player it'll have been a red to some yet some say only due to studs showing, both of these arebtyir shouldn't be a red card offence, the argument that it could have ended mouts career isn't a baseline to say if a challenge does it warrants a red! People get injured in challenges, ask David busst but was and even now shoudk Irwin have been sent off... Of course bloody not.

Let's say he got there ball and just missed mout by a whisker does he get sent off still? He should based on some of your opinons, stud showing, out of control etc but if course he wouldn't
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
He had every control where he was going to end up! There direction he was facing!
The studs up argument is being contradicted on here, even with force and contacting the player it'll have been a red to some yet some say only due to studs showing, both of these arebtyir shouldn't be a red card offence, the argument that it could have ended mouts career isn't a baseline to say if a challenge does it warrants a red! People get injured in challenges, ask David busst but was and even now shoudk Irwin have been sent off... Of course bloody not.

Let's say he got there ball and just missed mout by a whisker does he get sent off still? He should based on some of your opinons, stud showing, out of control etc but if course he wouldn
I’m not entirely sure what your point is?
He was out of control, as in he could not control his slide and his foot (and his studs) were ankle high. It’s not up for debate, it warranted a red under the law.
If you think players should be allowed to be out of control, studs up and hit people ankle high, that’s up to you but it doesn’t change the laws of the game as they stand.

Personally I miss the physical battles of the past and hate and I really mean HATE diving.
But if you give me a choice between the days of chain smoking players turning up fresh from the pub and getting ‘reducers in early’ to cripple the opposition talent... or watching what we have now, I’ll take now thanks. I don’t want to see Neves or Jimenez stretchered off because they weren’t ‘man enough’ to live with challenges through the back of them that they can’t see coming.

Lee Howie ‘tough guy’ cowardice has been driven out of the game and I’m glad. If you want to tackle hard more power to you, but injuring opponents because you didn’t execute the technique correctly just shows you aren’t good enough at football. I’d rather see a straight punch up than hacking people down, ruining careers and pretending it’s the virtue of some bygone golden age.
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
I’m not entirely sure what your point is?
He was out of control, as in he could not control his slide and his foot (and his studs) were ankle high. It’s not up for debate, it warranted a red under the law.
If you think players should be allowed to be out of control, studs up and hit people ankle high, that’s up to you but it doesn’t change the laws of the game as they stand.

Personally I miss the physical battles of the past and hate and I really mean HATE diving.
But if you give me a choice between the days of chain smoking players turning up fresh from the pub and getting ‘reducers in early’ to cripple the opposition talent... or watching what we have now, I’ll take now thanks. I don’t want to see Neves or Jimenez stretchered off because they weren’t ‘man enough’ to live with challenges through the back of them that they can’t see coming.

Lee Howie ‘tough guy’ cowardice has been driven out of the game and I’m glad. If you want to tackle hard more power to you, but injuring opponents because you didn’t execute the technique correctly just shows you aren’t good enough at football. I’d rather see a straight punch up than hacking people down, ruining careers and pretending it’s the virtue of some bygone golden age.
He wasn't out of control! He had forward motion at speed into a challenge where he won the ball and his body and leg didn't move from the position and direction pre or post ball contact. As I said, if he had also won the ball and not connected with a player after would you be so keen to see him sent off? No you wouldn't so jump off high horse for a bit.

The challenge wasnt facing the player head on so no real evidence that he had any malice or intent to injure so why say about our boys not seeing a challenge from behind??? You're moving away from the point!

Can you please answer if someone making that exact challenge and NOT being anywhere near another player should be sent off then. You seem to indicate regardless of what the final contact might be the fact a player goes to win a ball with a slide tackle at speed is a straight red as he must be out of control..... It's not
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
If he was in control why didn't he keep his studs down?
Would you send him off if no contact on mouts??

I agree it was a red for what happened but the point some are trying to make is the the first part he attempted was out of control and reckless, if so then it's a sending off offence irrespective of contact....which it's not.

So a little perspective, it wasn't horrid until we saw the contact... Post winning the ball, there's been far far worse challenges in recent years and at nornal speed it wasn't even reacted too by our players as being totally over the top but that's how some are portraying it on here.

It was a risky challenge, not wild in the slightest and he got a red after review.
 

wallace

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
5,375
Reaction score
1,401
He wasn't out of control! He had forward motion at speed into a challenge where he won the ball and his body and leg didn't move from the position and direction pre or post ball contact. As I said, if he had also won the ball and not connected with a player after would you be so keen to see him sent off? No you wouldn't so jump off high horse for a bit.

The challenge wasnt facing the player head on so no real evidence that he had any malice or intent to injure so why say about our boys not seeing a challenge from behind??? You're moving away from the point!

Can you please answer if someone making that exact challenge and NOT being anywhere near another player should be sent off then. You seem to indicate regardless of what the final contact might be the fact a player goes to win a ball with a slide tackle at speed is a straight red as he must be out of control..... It's not
Dont be daft of course it was a red card offence.
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
Dont be daft of course it was a red card offence.
I've said it was but only based on the contact after he got the ball, it wasnt flagged in real-time immediately like many are and our players hardly reacted!

The point I'm debating is how some feel the action was reckless pre contact with ball.... That was won.....

It just wasn't and if it was we'd be seeing red cards for reckless slides with no contact. No contact with mouts and it's no red, that's my point! It's ONLY the matter that contact was made that it's a red, nothing more than that, just a red. People criticising the speed, the intent blah blah are talking **** cos no contact and game goes on with exactly the same motion undertaken by the player
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
Can you please answer if someone making that exact challenge and NOT being anywhere near another player should be sent off then. You seem to indicate regardless of what the final contact might be the fact a player goes to win a ball with a slide tackle at speed is a straight red as he must be out of control..... It's not

Not being anywhere near another player? So he’s tackling fresh air? Where is he, in the tunnel? Changing room? Buying a pie? In the bath?

If he’s nowhere near another player why is he sliding in studs up?

What a ridiculous question.
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
It wasn't that long ago we all went wild at the mol for Jack Robinson's 50 yard sprint to win the ball which took the player out (unharmed). Now he'd have been running to quick into the challenge i guess as he 'could' have injured someone......
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
I've said it was but only based on the contact after he got the ball, it wasnt flagged in real-time immediately like many are and our players hardly reacted!

The point I'm debating is how some feel the action was reckless pre contact with ball.... That was won.....

It just wasn't and if it was we'd be seeing red cards for reckless slides with no contact. No contact with mouts and it's no red, that's my point! It's ONLY the matter that contact was made that it's a red, nothing more than that, just a red. People criticising the speed, the intent blah blah are talking **** cos no contact and game goes on with exactly the same motion undertaken by the player

Who criticised the intent? Intent is subjective... unless he screams ‘ARGGHHH I’LL KILL YOU MOUTINHO’ as he slides in?

Whether he hits Mouts ankle or not, he’s gone through the ball and is still got his studs ankle high and can’t stop himself and can’t / won’t put his foot down.
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
It wasn't that long ago we all went wild at the mol for Jack Robinson's 50 yard sprint to win the ball which took the player out (unharmed). Now he'd have been running to quick into the challenge i guess as he 'could' have injured someone......
Aaahh so cards should be issued based on severity of the injury to your opponent then?

Ligaments a yellow, compound fracture a red?

Shame you don’t ref kids football.
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
Not being anywhere near another player? So he’s tackling fresh air? Where is he, in the tunnel? Changing room? Buying a pie? In the bath?

If he’s nowhere near another player why is he sliding in studs up?

What a ridiculous question.
Don't dodge it, you can slide in to win the ball and the opposition player pull out knowunh he's secomd best to win it. Is that a red is what asking as a few in here believe it should be....

That not that hard a question or scenario really to be honest
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
Who criticised the intent? Intent is subjective... unless he screams ‘ARGGHHH I’LL KILL YOU MOUTINHO’ as he slides in?

Whether he hits Mouts ankle or not, he’s gone through the ball and is still got his studs ankle high and can’t stop himself and can’t / won’t put his foot down.
So not connecting with mouts and it's still a red is it???

No of course not! How ****ing mental you are insinuating it would be

It's only a red as contact was made. End of, those saying out of control pre getting the ball are wrong, just wrong as he would have been sent off without having to review the post ball winning element of the situation.
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
Don't dodge it, you can slide in to win the ball and the opposition player pull out knowunh he's secomd best to win it. Is that a red is what asking as a few in here believe it should be....

That not that hard a question or scenario really to be honest

That isn’t what happened though is it? And Mouts was first to the ball so I don’t get the relevance?
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
So not connecting with mouts and it's still a red is it???

No of course not! How ****ing mental you are insinuating it would be

It's only a red as contact was made. End of, those saying out of control pre getting the ball are wrong, just wrong as he would have been sent off without having to review the post ball winning element of the situation.

No I’d say if he misses completely studs up it’s more likely a yellow? But he would still be out of control either way?! And it would still be dangerous.
And he WAS out of control, he didn’t pull out, Mouts DID get the ball first and was incredibly lucky to still be walking today!
 

derbyrameater

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
26,979
Reaction score
3,009
Don't dodge it, you can slide in to win the ball and the opposition player pull out knowunh he's secomd best to win it. Is that a red is what asking as a few in here believe it should be....

That not that hard a question or scenario really to be honest
Sliding in isn't the same as sliding in with the studs up which I notice you left out !
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
So not connecting with mouts and it's still a red is it???

No of course not! How ****ing mental you are insinuating it would be

It's only a red as contact was made. End of, those saying out of control pre getting the ball are wrong, just wrong as he would have been sent off without having to review the post ball winning element of the situation.
I’m very likely mental but I don’t think I insinuated anything?
If I think your point is balls I say so. I’m a lot of things but a rank insinuator is not one of them.
 
Last edited:

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
He wasnt first to the ball!!!
Actually if you watch in slow mo I think he is. Just a toe.
Even if not doesn’t make it ok to pile through the ball and his ankle.

I know you want it to, but it really doesn’t.
 

Minimalist

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
2,591
Reaction score
3,277
My penny worth re red card:
What makes these kind of tackles deserving of a red is when you go in with a straight leg/ locked knee and you have your full weight going at speed in a straight line. Even if you win the ball you are then always going to follow through in a dangerous manner.
Sliding tackles are fine if done more sideways with a kicking action as if you make contact with the other player your own knee absorbers some of the contact.
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
Anyway thank you all for the debate, I enjoy the back and forth with other passionate Wolves fans!
I’ve got to go and finish a roast dinner.
Don’t get me started on how to correctly make gravy or if Yorkshire’s are only for Beef!

Apologies I know I’m a patronising git can’t help it! Happy Sunday all!
 

Kebab Warrior

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
5,712
My penny worth re red card:
What makes these kind of tackles deserving of a red is when you go in with a straight leg/ locked knee and you have your full weight going at speed in a straight line. Even if you win the ball you are then always going to follow through in a dangerous manner.
Sliding tackles are fine if done more sideways with a kicking action as if you make contact with the other player your own knee absorbers some of the contact.
Much better post than the crap I’ve come up with. Good point.
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
What makes it a red card is that his studs are showing at ankle height. You haven't been able to do that for the past 20 years or so. Keeps his studs down and it isn't even a foul imo.
Well I'm sorry but even with studs down and contact of the foot at pace into mouts could still cause harm and get a few on here trying to her him lynched
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
My penny worth re red card:
What makes these kind of tackles deserving of a red is when you go in with a straight leg/ locked knee and you have your full weight going at speed in a straight line. Even if you win the ball you are then always going to follow through in a dangerous manner.
Sliding tackles are fine if done more sideways with a kicking action as if you make contact with the other player your own knee absorbers some of the contact.
Agree, so without contact on mouts it's a red that needs showing for the risk involved. That's what I'm trying to ascertain from certain posters who have criticised the motion 'before' the won the ball and yes before contact
 

NewarkWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
18,663
Reaction score
5,052
Actually if you watch in slow mo I think he is. Just a toe.
Even if not doesn’t make it ok to pile through the ball and his ankle.

I know you want it to, but it really doesn’t.
Of course it's not ok, but he won the ball fair and square. Then nearly broke mouts leg!!

It's a red for the second part of that sentence not the action before or for winning the ball
 

JonahWolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
4,650
Reaction score
5,708
So not connecting with mouts and it's still a red is it???

No of course not! How ****ing mental you are insinuating it would be

It's only a red as contact was made. End of, those saying out of control pre getting the ball are wrong, just wrong as he would have been sent off without having to review the post ball winning element of the situation.

Actually, it should have been a red even if it narrowly missed him. (Which it might have done from some angles).

If he was in control, why did his studs stay up there? You say he’s in control, so he chooses, in a controlled manner, to leave his studs ankle high while flying through the air followed by across the turf (yes he does briefly leave the ground with both feet).
That should be a red whether he connects or not.
No it probably wouldn’t have been examined closely enough for the review to have happened if there hadn’t have been contact, but the reckless challenge happened regardless.

Plenty of players have been sent off for a no-contact lunge. I’ll try and get remembering recent specific examples. But if the player would have ordinarily won the ball if not for avoiding a dangerous, reckless challenge, that miss of a challenge has been awarded a red.
 
Top Bottom