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Marquinhos

giantwolf

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I dont feel so bad now knowing we'd never see him in a wolves shirt anyway.
To be fair, I wouldn’t put this lad in the same bracket as Kawabe who I don’t think we will see play for us. For Marquinhos, the Grasshoppers loan would have been for development/game time only and I’ve no doubt if the potential was realised, he’d have been back at Wolves
 

jwolfie91

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Will take absolute donkey's years to come to anything in court, for what would be a pretty nominal fee. Expect Arsenal give us a few quid to make it go away
 
D

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I know a lot of clubs began looking at him last year, and us and Arsenal were looking at him very seriously from December last year, we had an agreement with the player, however Arsenal caught wind of his unique/interesting contract situation in April and then pounced upon him.

He's an explosive player, very direct, similar to Traore in that respect, he's definitley not the most technical or tactically aware player and his defensive awareness needs to improve, he's a bit of a blunt object but can be effective in certain situations. I don't think he is particularly well suited to Wolves or Arsenal to be honest, more of a vertical player than being comfortable cutting inside.

Both clubs probably saw him as an investment, loan him to Grasshoppers, loan him elsewhere and then get 10 million for him in a few years time.

I suspect the legal action will be with the player, rather than Arsenal.
 

WolfLing

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I suspect that like any potential court case, it's not about what happened, but what you can prove happened.

If we have signed an agreement with the player and made no contact with Sao Paulo about it, they can rightfully claim they knew nothing about the deal.

The only case that could be proven would then be against the player himself and I suspect that the costs and potential reputational damage of dragging a 19 year old through court proceedings, for what would be a relatively small payout, just isn't worth it.
 

Sussex Wolf

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I suspect that like any potential court case, it's not about what happened, but what you can prove happened.

If we have signed an agreement with the player and made no contact with Sao Paulo about it, they can rightfully claim they knew nothing about the deal.

The only case that could be proven would then be against the player himself and I suspect that the costs and potential reputational damage of dragging a 19 year old through court proceedings, for what would be a relatively small payout, just isn't worth it.

If it’s just against the player, then you’d still proceed. Otherwise you’d be exposed to any player doing the same in the future knowing they will get away with it. Use a club to drum up interest and then take a better offer. The lad will have some kind of agent involved, and the agent will likely have been involved, perhaps even a signatory.
 

Superted

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I think it's probabl best all round that we didn't proceed and we can take the high road.

I would, however be letting it be known publicly and in no uncertain terms that we are not happy, but we chose not to pursue a protracted legal battle with little to gain.
 

Oldgold Wolfcub

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Seriously - when the journalist is writing that, does he not seek some sort of guidance on why wolves have dropped any action? Basic stuff
To say that Arsenal did not have any knowledge of our pre contract is complete balderdash. We have been writing about this for some time now so can anyone tell me that they did not really know.
However the first the club were made aware of this they should have writen to Arsenal informing them of the situation. Then the club should have sought an injuction.
I sometimes cannot believe the mentality of those running this club. Too many transactions are more to the benefit of other parties rather tban our own. Is this really a top investment company. If the management of the club do not show enough positive aggression that is focused how do they expect our players to.
This decision sends out more signals that we are an easy touch.
 
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Japan Wulf

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The E&S article is effectively an invitation to read between the lines... never my favourite pastime.
Perhaps Arsenal settled the matter with a nominal payment to Wolves? I somehow doubt it. I'm not sure if Arsenal have broken any laws - though they may well have acted unscrupulously.
Perhaps the pre-contractual agreement wasn't all it was thought to be. I doubt that as well. I'd assume Fosun knows what it's doing regarding contracts.
Perhaps Fosun rates the litigation process as being too time-consuming, too costly or just too plain messy. And perhaps with no promise of success.
I'd probably hang my hat on the last one but who knows?
The truth may eventually come to light but I'm not holding my breath.
 

Sussex Wolf

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Seriously - when the journalist is writing that, does he not seek some sort of guidance on why wolves have dropped any action? Basic stuff

I imagine he does and I imagine Wolves will say nothing. I wonder if it calls into question the value of pre agreements in general? Assuming Wolves got the lad to sign something standard.
 

Sussex Wolf

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I know this is via HITC, but thought it interesting despite that…


Looks to me like an agency is not just admitting they engineered this change of career plans, but are seeking praise for it.
 

WickedWolfie

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I know this is via HITC, but thought it interesting despite that…


Looks to me like an agency is not just admitting they engineered this change of career plans, but are seeking praise for it.
So he had two lots of representatives and we were dealing with one of them? I wonder if they will be taking legal action against the other who dealt with Arsenal?
 

Adrian_Monk

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To be fair, I wouldn’t put this lad in the same bracket as Kawabe who I don’t think we will see play for us. For Marquinhos, the Grasshoppers loan would have been for development/game time only and I’ve no doubt if the potential was realised, he’d have been back at Wolves
You missed 'watching Hwang inexplicably getting a game ahead of him' off the end of your sentence
 

jwolfie91

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The numbers are tiny, it would take years of legal battling in a different country for what can only be a paltry sum.

Not worth wasting the money on, we got sharked. Welcome to football
 

Sussex Wolf

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The numbers are tiny, it would take years of legal battling in a different country for what can only be a paltry sum.

Not worth wasting the money on, we got sharked. Welcome to football

You wouldn’t do this for the money necessarily. You’d do this to establish a precedent to dissuade others from trying the same trick. The only reason you might not, is if there was the potential for reputational damage for Wolves from going after the lad, agent or clubs.
 

jwolfie91

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You wouldn’t do this for the money necessarily. You’d do this to establish a precedent to dissuade others from trying the same trick. The only reason you might not, is if there was the potential for reputational damage for Wolves from going after the lad, agent or clubs.
It wouldn't dissuade other clubs, and it wouldn't dissuade us from doing it either. Nature of the beast, hope we can do it back to them sometime.
 

wolfslair

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It wouldn't dissuade other clubs, and it wouldn't dissuade us from doing it either. Nature of the beast, hope we can do it back to them sometime.
From the vibe of his agent it was the plan to send him to grasshoppers that sparked the search for another venture….

Why are we propping up grasshoppers for the owners wife?

He should have been brought in as first team and maybe addressed a loan in Jan if he wasn’t prem ready.

Our owners need to get their priorities in check! Grasshoppers is never going to return a fraction of the investment wolves will, so stop buying players for them under the guise of a loan
 

Monketron

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You wouldn’t do this for the money necessarily. You’d do this to establish a precedent to dissuade others from trying the same trick. The only reason you might not, is if there was the potential for reputational damage for Wolves from going after the lad, agent or clubs.

That's the main thing I think, do we want to be known as a club that will sue players/agents just for a little cash? It's probably not worth it if it costs us a signing or 2 down the road.
 

WickedWolfie

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That's the main thing I think, do we want to be known as a club that will sue players/agents just for a little cash? It's probably not worth it if it costs us a signing or 2 down the road.
The thing is do we want to be known as a soft touch who everyone can walk all over?
 

jwolfie91

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From the vibe of his agent it was the plan to send him to grasshoppers that sparked the search for another venture….

Why are we propping up grasshoppers for the owners wife?

He should have been brought in as first team and maybe addressed a loan in Jan if he wasn’t prem ready.

Our owners need to get their priorities in check! Grasshoppers is never going to return a fraction of the investment wolves will, so stop buying players for them under the guise of a loan
That's literally not the point of Grasshoppers, the point is to use it as a place to develop players ala Toti
 

theweave

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From the vibe of his agent it was the plan to send him to grasshoppers that sparked the search for another venture….

Why are we propping up grasshoppers for the owners wife?

He should have been brought in as first team and maybe addressed a loan in Jan if he wasn’t prem ready.

Our owners need to get their priorities in check! Grasshoppers is never going to return a fraction of the investment wolves will, so stop buying players for them under the guise of a loan
I think that's a bit of a smoke screen. Arsenal are also planning on loaning him out this season
 

jwolfie91

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There’s more value in playing nice and walking away than in fighting a costly legal battle over a youngster.
Especially where CAS have issued a ruling allowing Marseille to sign players who did a similar thing to Watford on a player from 2 years ago
 

wolfslair

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That's literally not the point of Grasshoppers, the point is to use it as a place to develop players ala Toti
So how do you explain Kawabe? We didn’t need to buy him, that was a complete waste of funds.

Also the striker we bought and sent there?

They will never play for the first team……
 

jwolfie91

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So how do you explain Kawabe? We didn’t need to buy him, that was a complete waste of funds.

Also the striker we bought and sent there?

They will never play for the first team……
Could make money on both, they cost basically **** all and were gambles to generate revenue
 

wolfslair

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Could make money on both, they cost basically **** all and were gambles to generate revenue
We bought kawabe OFF grasshoppers for MORE than they paid so you might need to do some homework.

Fosun are taking the **** out of us on that one with this new sell to buy approach we are being told about.
 

jwolfie91

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We bought kawabe OFF grasshoppers for MORE than they paid so you might need to do some homework.

Fosun are taking the **** out of us on that one with this new sell to buy approach we are being told about.
You got a source for that?
This has you completely wrong.
 

Japan Wulf

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You got a source for that?
This has you completely wrong.
That was my understanding too. We paid 500K, though I thought Grasshoppers had paid 1 million rather than the 1.7 quoted in the article. Either way, I don't see how Wolves can possibly lose out on a deal like that.
As someone else posted on another thread, given the connection between the owners, I do wonder about financial collusion between Grasshoppers and Wolves. How do Grasshoppers stand on FFP, I wonder. It's pure speculation on my part but in a certain sense, could the deal not be considered as a kind of transfer of FFP assets? Please feel free to shoot me down.
 

wolfslair

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You got a source for that?
This has you completely wrong.
My apologies, the article I read at the time had it the other way around…… so I am very wrong on the fee.

BUT

I still stand by the fact giving them 500k for a player they already own and sending him there on a two year loan is dodgy as anything as it is clear he will never play for us.
 
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