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Joao Palhinha & Mendes

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lets all have a disco

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JayStringer said:
I'll be honest -and this may just be me- I don't want another talented young potential on loan. I want us to sign them, straight up. I would argue the season-long-loan has been part of the problem with both Vitinha and Trincao. We get them in, take some looks at them, and at a certain point in the season decide they're not going to cut it and they fade into the background because we have the safety net of sending them back. To develop them really would mean committing to seeing it through and developing them. I wish we'd just bought Vitinha, no loan. Same with Trincao. Then dug in for the long haul to develop them. If we're after Nico, I hope it's to sign him fully and then commit.
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I understand but loan to buy has worked for us in general....rayan worked, vitinhia didn't......just cause you buy someone is no guarantee..(hoever)...
 
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lets all have a disco said:
I understand but loan to buy has worked for us in general....rayan worked, vitinhia didn't......just cause you buy someone is no guarantee..(hoever)...
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Also Jota, Neves, Boly, Jonny, Raul... many of our very best deals were loan to buys. If someone can't impress in a season on loan, then they aren't for us.
 
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JayStringer

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Contrarian said:
Also Jota, Neves, Boly, Jonny, Raul... many of our very best deals were loan to buys. If someone can't impress in a season on loan, then they aren't for us.
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Neves wasn't a loan. But I take the larger point. It has worked brilliantly for us on the way up. Jota and Boly were always clearly much better players than the league they were in for us during their loans. Jonny and Raul, absolutely, but they were older than the profile of players I'm talking about. I would argue in the last two seasons -as we've looked to try and take the next step- it's worked against us. RAN has worked out. But of the prominent loans of the last two seasons, it's a much lower hit rate than the signings you list there. Vitinha and Trincao have come in and been 'not for us' but are clearly talented players who needed some development. RAN has been largely dropped in favour of Jonny when available, and arguably his (great) development has come become because of Jonny's injuries. The loan we signed in these last two years? Hwang.

In fact, if we go back to our first season in the prem Jota was really poor for the first third. It was at the point where fans were saying he wasn't making the step up. But it was him needing time to adjust and adapt to the level, then he was an absolutely key player for the remaining season. Match that up to Trincao, who struggled at first, showed glimpses, but then started to fade away because he was a loan who we could send back. If Jota had been a loan to buy in our first prem season, he might not have had the chance to have the run that he did after Christmas. Because he was 'ours' and there was money invested in him, the club stuck it out and were rewarded.I think talented young players need a home and need to have faith shown in them.
 
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JayStringer said:
Neves wasn't a loan. But I take the larger point. It has worked brilliantly for us on the way up. Jota and Boly were always clearly much better players than the league they were in for us during their loans. Jonny and Raul, absolutely, but they were older than the profile of players I'm talking about. I would argue in the last two seasons -as we've looked to try and take the next step- it's worked against us. RAN has worked out. But of the prominent loans of the last two seasons, it's a much lower hit rate than the signings you list there. Vitinha and Trincao have come in and been 'not for us' but are clearly talented players who needed some development. RAN has been largely dropped in favour of Jonny when available, and arguably his (great) development has come become because of Jonny's injuries. The loan we signed in these last two years? Hwang.
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Ah, yes, I see what you mean. It's difficult for the younger players because they need development time, too. Which is a problem if a senior regular is keeping them out of the side. (RaN maybe had this problem with Marcal, too). With older players, you do have a much better idea what you're getting, so if they aren't good enough at 26/27, they are unlikely to be good enough at 30!

Loan to a "lower" level makes more sense for younger players - MGW, for example and clearly he has had the best season of his career. He's way ahead of where he'd be if he'd stayed here and had the occasional "10 minutes to change a match" against the teams in this league. That's probably where it's gone awry with Trincao and Vitinha. Yeah, I know some would say going from Barc to Wolves *is* a step down. :) The point is this league is not a step down from La Liga and we need to do anything we can to get results. We don't have capacity to give game time to youngsters while we stroll into 4 goal leads against the bottom clubs. Though I'm beginning to wonder exactly how much say we have in this?
 
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Tojo the grass said:
Is he reliable?
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Eastyorksyeltz said:
He works for the Sun!
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tbf a quick glance through his twitter feed suggests he's not a rumour merchant: he does interviews, press conferences and match reports with only occasional transfer stories, which generally seem plausible (the only other recent one is about Spurs and Arsenal being interested in Gabriel Jesus).

So working for The Sun doesn't necessarily = gossip merchant, though imo it does make you ethically bankrupt.
 
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Wonder if the vinegre transfer is linked, sporting give us 10 mill to enable us to pay up for palinha
 
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£20m sounds about right, especially if we agree to Nico and some spare kits from Barça in exchange for Ruben.
 
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hollo said:
Palhinha completely different plqyer to neves. We still need a creative player.
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i think we'll get free runners like felix was at benfica. so presumably rafa silva, maybe guedes.... that's why we need deep pivot midfielders
 
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Sheffield Wolf said:
Reminds me of Declan Rice, who I hate to admit gets better each time I watch him.
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That’s exactly what I was thinking while watching that. The strength, aggressive decisive ball-winning, striding forward with the ball through brute force and will rather than fancy flicks.
Not English and not in early 20s, so £20m rather than 100. Sounds good to me.
Absolute crying shame that Neves is going, because he’d be a perfect partner. Think Fabinho and Thiago. Or indeed, Kante-Jorginho. No coincidence Chelsea’s form fell off a cliff when they couldn’t play together due to overlapping injuries.
 
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JonahWolf said:
That’s exactly what I was thinking while watching that. The strength, aggressive decisive ball-winning, striding forward with the ball through brute force and will rather than fancy flicks.
Not English and not in early 20s, so £20m rather than 100. Sounds good to me.
Absolute crying shame that Neves is going, because he’d be a perfect partner. Think Fabinho and Thiago. Or indeed, Kante-Jorginho. No coincidence Chelsea’s form fell off a cliff when they couldn’t play together due to overlapping injuries.
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Exactly.

I always so badly wanted a midfield 3 of Neves, Mouts and Palhinha. He will (if we get him) hopefully do what Donk so often (I am sorry to say) just could not do.

It amazes me that some people think Palhinha is no faster than Donk. Of course these are just his best bits.

But even if we get him, we still need a play maker. For me Palhinha is an upgrade on Donk, not a replacement for Neves.
 
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