Jeff Shi - Interview in The Athletic

[Bankswolf The Third]

I read the article and paid the most attention to two passages
1) Spiers surprise that after years of trying he got an interview
2) That Shi got animated and very excited discussing e-sports

Says everything really that piece wasnt to discuss Bruno or transfers it was to talk to the softest touch in journalism about how good his mates are at Fortnite now. Thats the ambition

 

[WolfLing]

It reads that Botman wasn't even a first choice target, hence why we weren't prepared to spend more on him than we thought he was worth.

£30m would be a lot for someone that was linked with other clubs for just over half that in the previous window.

 

[Wolf316]

It reads that Botman wasn't even a first choice target, hence why we weren't prepared to spend more on him than we thought he was worth.

£30m would be a lot for someone that was linked with other clubs for just over half that in the previous window.

How much could we have got Fabio for in the window before we bought him?

 

[Wolf in the sun]

I read the article and paid the most attention to two passages
1) Spiers surprise that after years of trying he got an interview
2) That Shi got animated and very excited discussing e-sports

Says everything really that piece wasnt to discuss Bruno or transfers it was to talk to the softest touch in journalism about how good his mates are at Fortnite now. Thats the ambition

i am excited by the esports etc IF wolves are going to benefit and not fosun..otherwise whats the point ? ok maybe new fans and new shirt sales...but that alone wont do it

 

[WolfLing]

How much could we have got Fabio for in the window before we bought him?

Before puberty?

 

[Chris H]

He would be viable in the centre , not first choice but better than bringing an u18 into cm

Possibly, but even so Saiss would be ahead of him so he’s still 5th choice in that position.

My point is, MGW going on loan shouldn’t be an issue, the lack of a CM coming in is. I don’t think MGW staying would have helped all that much as he isn’t suited to that position anyway. And there’s no way anyone who is suggesting MGW should have been kept would have accepted the argument he’s an option at CM if he had been, people would still have (rightly) been spitting feathers about the lack of CM addition so on that basis not keeping MGW around isn’t all that relevant in my opinion.

 

[Chris H]

Don’t disagree on whether we needed Morgan in the squad, but he was playing well preseason and so would have provided competition. Secondly, if the plan all along was to loan him out, was Sheffield really the best destination we could manage for a young, English international? It would have been more credible had he gone out earlier in the window to a Champ team pushing for promotion. As it stands, it smacks of desperation and poor planning I’m afraid.

I think we allowed MGW to go out once Hwang came in and his chances of playing were likely even further limited.

Id assume the logic is it’ll give him time to develop whilst we possibly have someone else’s player sat on our bench. If Hwang does well we have the option to buy him, if not he goes back to Leipzig and MGW with a year of playing football week in week out hopefully comes back as a fully fledged option on the back of proving himself at that level and ready to become a regular for us.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

So basically you are eloquently saying that Jeff is just coming out with BS.

Either yes, or he’s failing to explain the situation clearly and in trying to do so, creating confusing inconsistencies. I’d like to think it’s the latter, but it could be the former.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I think we allowed MGW to go out once Hwang came in and his chances of playing were likely even further limited.

Id assume the logic is it’ll give him time to develop whilst we possibly have someone else’s player sat on our bench. If Hwang does well we have the option to buy him, if not he goes back to Leipzig and MGW with a year of playing football week in week out hopefully comes back as a fully fledged option on the back of proving himself at that level and ready to become a regular for us.

All well and good, but after a strong preseason I don’t think playing week in and week out for a team scrapping at the bottom of the Champ is going to help him fight for his place more. I think you’re being way too generous.

I agree Hwang may have been the trigger for Morgan leaving, but I think Sheff was simply the “best” club available in the limited time available. Sheff is not an environment for Morgan to prove himself as an attacking midfielder or forward. He’s more likely to get injured there, or simply fail to shine and see his value fall. The only way playing there will make him more likely to get back in the Wolves squad in Jan or next summer, is if Hwang fails or we sell another forward or AM.

 

[Ned]

All well and good, but after a strong preseason I don’t think playing week in and week out for a team scrapping at the bottom of the Champ is going to help him fight for his place more. I think you’re being way too generous.

I agree Hwang may have been the trigger for Morgan leaving, but I think Sheff was simply the “best” club available in the limited time available. Sheff is not an environment for Morgan to prove himself as an attacking midfielder or forward. He’s more likely to get injured there, or simply fail to shine and see his value fall. The only way playing there will make him more likely to get back in the Wolves squad in Jan or next summer, is if Hwang fails or we sell another forward or AM.

Bang on. Unless Sheff Utd suddenly “click” and start playing some football then MGW will soon become a luxury player who won’t fit in to what they have (see Rhian Brewster). It’s going to be a terrible fit for him where he will end up being shoehorned in somewhere or left on the bench for when they’re chasing a game.

The logic in sending him out to the right club when Hwang signed was sound (if not sensible numbers-wise) but surely he needed a club that will play football a bit.

Haven’t we recently appointed Matt Jackson to sort this kind of thing out?

 

[Jefe]

It reads that Botman wasn't even a first choice target, hence why we weren't prepared to spend more on him than we thought he was worth. £30m would be a lot for someone that was linked with other clubs for just over half that in the previous window.

How much could we have got Fabio for in the window before we bought him?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1317049976405504007

Wolves paid four times for Fabio what he was worth only 10 months before.

 

[WolfLing]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1317049976405504007

Wolves paid four times for Fabio what he was worth only 10 months before.

What he was worth? You mean four times more than the value of the previous release clause?

Otherwise using the same logic we actually paid a third of what he was worth when his release clause was €125m!!

 

[Jefe]

What he was worth? You mean four times more than the value of the previous release clause?

Otherwise using the same logic we actually paid a third of what he was worth when his release clause was €125m!!

What I mean to say is: crap business by Jeff Shi*

*assuming Fabio was on his radar at that point.

 

[Chris H]

All well and good, but after a strong preseason I don’t think playing week in and week out for a team scrapping at the bottom of the Champ is going to help him fight for his place more. I think you’re being way too generous.

I agree Hwang may have been the trigger for Morgan leaving, but I think Sheff was simply the “best” club available in the limited time available. Sheff is not an environment for Morgan to prove himself as an attacking midfielder or forward. He’s more likely to get injured there, or simply fail to shine and see his value fall. The only way playing there will make him more likely to get back in the Wolves squad in Jan or next summer, is if Hwang fails or we sell another forward or AM.

I’m not saying I disagree with any of that. But none of those things are reasons why he would have suddenly become a viable option in a CM 2 for us if injuries arise. I don’t think keeping him just in case would have been a bad thing (for the club at least, it wouldn’t have been much good to him) but my original point was that if the club had done this there’s no way the people spitting feathers that he wasn’t kept would have accepted the club saying he was an option there. Everyone would have said he’s a forward not a CM, people are only now saying he should have been kept for that reason simply because he wasn’t.

It’s another stick to beat the club with, which is completely unnecessary because there’s more than enough of them available without diluting people’s positions by coming across as looking for reasons to be annoyed.

People should focus on the **** poor recruitment failure to not bring a CM in, not on letting a player who would never have been accepted as a viable option in CM, not now being available to play CM for us!

 

[Wolf316]

What I mean to say is: crap business by Jeff Shi*

*assuming Fabio was on his radar at that point.

Tracked him for a couple of years yet chose to spend £35m instead of £10m.

 

[hollo]

Guo needs to sack him for that alone. The transfer stinks. No other football club would pay anywhere close to that.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Guo needs to sack him for that alone. The transfer stinks. No other football would pay anywhere close to that.

Not true. Plenty of clubs sign unproven youngsters for much more than they're worth - much more than they could have got them for previously too.

The problem, of course, is that clubs like Wolves rarely do it. Clubs for whom 35 million would provide a huge increase to the first team standard, upgrading 1/2 positions.

For the Man Utd, Tottenhams, Real Madrids of this world, 35 million is a drop in the ocean. For Wolves, it is not.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

These e-sports purchases, are they being put through Wolves books or Fosuns?

Fosun, imagine if Wolves funding was being used to purchase eSports teams

 

[Chris H]

As has been said before, transfer fees on Mendes clients aren’t always indicative of that players value and supposedly include favours passed around clubs he deals with. So when reviewing the Silva fee you have to consider how much relates to his potential and how much relates to where we stood in terms of favours via Mendes network. People will say look at Neves for £15m compared to £35m for Silva. I’d say look at them as a combination not as a comparison.

Better to look at what we’ve paid / received from his clients or deals he’s been involved with as an overall and see where you stand.

On that basis, to my knowledge, we’ve brought / sold via him or clubs he’s associated with the following:

Brought: Cavaleiro, Costa, Mir, Miranda, Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jota, Patricio, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa = Approx £242m

Sold: Cavaleiro, Costa, Mir, Miranda, Jota, Patricio = Approx £104m

So for a net outlay of £138m we have the following still on our books:

Retained: Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa

Are those players worth more than £138m? I’d say easily so overall we’ve won more than we’ve lost.

When people suggest Silva was a favour and question when we’ll get one back in return, even if that’s true, they forget the ones we’ve already had.

When you’re on the Mendes carousel, it’s not about whether you’re up or down on individual transfers, it’s about benefitting overall and surely we have so far?

Sorry, I know this isn’t the most relevant thread, but as Silva’s transfer is being brought in to yet another thread I thought I’d post this here too.

 

[Beastier]

Let's just hope Jeff has learned some lessons about how to best get business done for the coming window - he's either totally flannelling us about having money to spend or his inexperience in this area has shone through like a beacon.

Any money not spent will be a false economy if we end up relegated because the squad isn't sufficient in terms of strength in depth.

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

The Chinese authorities are really cracking down on online video games Game over: China suspends approval for all new online video games

This could completely torpedo Fosun's e-sports strategy

 

[Ponty]

Retained: Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa

Are those players worth more than £138m? I’d say easily so overall we’ve won more than we’ve lost.

Take Neto out and it would be a close run thing - one great deal that i don't think even Neto dreamed would be as successful as it has been.

 

[JOSWolf]

Absolutely this. Watch him get snapped up early in the Jan window by West Ham or Everton or possibly even one of the Top 4.
#snoozeyoulose

Almost a guarantee whilst we penny pinch and dither.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Fosun, imagine if Wolves funding was being used to purchase eSports teams

Yeah that's why I was querying it, they are using our "brand" though so we should be getting something out of it?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Yeah that's why I was querying it, they are using our "brand" though so we should be getting something out of it?

Even if some kids across the globe want to buy kits, say another revenue stream paid by Fosun but obtained by Wolves see what they did there quite clever

 

[Ogerp]

Even if some kids across the globe want to buy kits, say another revenue stream paid by Fosun but obtained by Wolves see what they did there quite clever

Surely the game players purchase the skins for the team they are using to play the game. I don’t think they actually sit in front of a screen wearing an actual club top whilst playing the game.
The pro gamers may well do I suppose.
Not a gamer myself but I would not imagine the skins cost £55 a throw like the actual Wolves top.

 

[sc91]

The Chinese authorities are really cracking down on online video games Game over: China suspends approval for all new online video games

This could completely torpedo Fosun's e-sports strategy

Not really. More people to get the fix watching than actually playing.

 

[hollo]

As has been said before, transfer fees on Mendes clients aren’t always indicative of that players value and supposedly include favours passed around clubs he deals with. So when reviewing the Silva fee you have to consider how much relates to his potential and how much relates to where we stood in terms of favours via Mendes network. People will say look at Neves for £15m compared to £35m for Silva. I’d say look at them as a combination not as a comparison.

Better to look at what we’ve paid / received from his clients or deals he’s been involved with as an overall and see where you stand.

On that basis, to my knowledge, we’ve brought / sold via him or clubs he’s associated with the following:

Brought: Cavaleiro, Costa, Mir, Miranda, Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jota, Patricio, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa = Approx £242m

Sold: Cavaleiro, Costa, Mir, Miranda, Jota, Patricio = Approx £104m

So for a net outlay of £138m we have the following still on our books:

Retained: Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa

Are those players worth more than £138m? I’d say easily so overall we’ve won more than we’ve lost.

When people suggest Silva was a favour and question when we’ll get one back in return, even if that’s true, they forget the ones we’ve already had.

When you’re on the Mendes carousel, it’s not about whether you’re up or down on individual transfers, it’s about benefitting overall and surely we have so far?

Sorry, I know this isn’t the most relevant thread, but as Silva’s transfer is being brought in to yet another thread I thought I’d post this here too.

If valencia are on the carousel then they can relieve us of fabio for 35 million.

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

Not really. More people to get the fix watching than actually playing.

I know I am much more hawkish re China and the CCP than the vast majority of people on the Forum but honestly, the Chinese authorities might snap their fingers tomorrow and Guo could disappear for four months and Fosun could drop Wolves like the proverbial hot spud.

As I say, I accept more posters are far more relaxed than I am, but having the club I love in Chinese hands sits very uncomfortably with me

 

[VictorPyrrhic]

As has been said before, transfer fees on Mendes clients aren’t always indicative of that players value and supposedly include favours passed around clubs he deals with. So when reviewing the Silva fee you have to consider how much relates to his potential and how much relates to where we stood in terms of favours via Mendes network. People will say look at Neves for £15m compared to £35m for Silva. I’d say look at them as a combination not as a comparison.

Better to look at what we’ve paid / received from his clients or deals he’s been involved with as an overall and see where you stand.

On that basis, to my knowledge, we’ve brought / sold via him or clubs he’s associated with the following:

Brought: Cavaleiro, Costa, Mir, Miranda, Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jota, Patricio, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa = Approx £242m

Sold: Cavaleiro, Costa, Mir, Miranda, Jota, Patricio = Approx £104m

So for a net outlay of £138m we have the following still on our books:

Retained: Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa

Are those players worth more than £138m? I’d say easily so overall we’ve won more than we’ve lost.

When people suggest Silva was a favour and question when we’ll get one back in return, even if that’s true, they forget the ones we’ve already had.

When you’re on the Mendes carousel, it’s not about whether you’re up or down on individual transfers, it’s about benefitting overall and surely we have so far?

Sorry, I know this isn’t the most relevant thread, but as Silva’s transfer is being brought in to yet another thread I thought I’d post this here too.

I think it also goes a little further than this too and that clubs are expected to address the accounting deficiencies of other clubs within the circle within a cycle hence we picked up Neves cheap but then the price was inflated for Silva.

Now we're established i expect we'll be the club resolving a lot of other clubs problems in exchange for players later down the line once they've been developed to a certain standard. Overall though whether when Fosun took over or today, i think it's a relationship we can't afford to not be part of.

 

[VictorPyrrhic]

I know I am much more hawkish re China and the CCP than the vast majority of people on the Forum but honestly, the Chinese authorities might snap their fingers tomorrow and Guo could disappear for four months and Fosun could drop Wolves like the proverbial hot spud.

As I say, I accept more posters are far more relaxed than I am, but having the club I love in Chinese hands sits very uncomfortably with me

I think we'd be an attractive proposition/asset to a lot of investors now so i'm not too concerned about that perosnally. It's in Fosun's interests to maintain their asset even if they intend to sell.

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

Guo needs to sack him for that alone. The transfer stinks. No other football club would pay anywhere close to that.

It’s now become clear that this was the worst decision ever made, regardless of how Fabio develops and succeeds in future.

the opportunity cost of this transaction was incredibly negative and may have cost many more millions in lost prize money, marketing revenue and

I wouldn’t just sack him, I’d sue him for negligence.

I’m no accountant but I’m interested to hear from someone who is: does paying a large part of the fee to agents in this way impact your tax liability?

 

[Wolf316]

Even if some kids across the globe want to buy kits, say another revenue stream paid by Fosun but obtained by Wolves see what they did there quite clever

They can’t even stock the shop in Wolverhampton properly let alone sell it worldwide.

 

[Ogerp]

I have posted before that I’m not a gamer so could any of you gamers answer a question.
Are there sponsors on the skins, and if so are betting companies allowed to be shown.
I only ask because some Countries do not allow betting sponsors on actual sports kits.

 

[Chris H]

Take Neto out and it would be a close run thing - one great deal that i don't think even Neto dreamed would be as successful as it has been.

Sure, but surely you don’t expect every one to come off, you only need to get 1 Neto in 10 and you’re on to a winner overall.

There are others in there like Silva and Ait-Nouri who can develop from where they are now, Neves will almost certainly earn or more than we paid when the time comes. Raul will probably not recuperate his fee but has been worth so much more than that to us, same with Boly and Moutinho. Vinagre was £2m and we may well get £10m for him next summer

We’ve not done badly when you look at it overall rather than player by player. You’ll never win on every one.

 

[Chris H]

If valencia are on the carousel then they can relieve us of fabio for 35 million.

I’m sure if it doesn’t work out another club will take him for a decent fee, perhaps not what we paid but we’ll recuperate a decent chunk of necessary down the line.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I’m not saying I disagree with any of that. But none of those things are reasons why he would have suddenly become a viable option in a CM 2 for us if injuries arise. I don’t think keeping him just in case would have been a bad thing (for the club at least, it wouldn’t have been much good to him) but my original point was that if the club had done this there’s no way the people spitting feathers that he wasn’t kept would have accepted the club saying he was an option there. Everyone would have said he’s a forward not a CM, people are only now saying he should have been kept for that reason simply because he wasn’t.

It’s another stick to beat the club with, which is completely unnecessary because there’s more than enough of them available without diluting people’s positions by coming across as looking for reasons to be annoyed.

People should focus on the **** poor recruitment failure to not bring a CM in, not on letting a player who would never have been accepted as a viable option in CM, not now being available to play CM for us!

I agree and I haven’t made a big deal about Morgan leaving, only where he’s gone.

 

[Beastier]

As has been said before, transfer fees on Mendes clients aren’t always indicative of that players value and supposedly include favours passed around clubs he deals with. So when reviewing the Silva fee you have to consider how much relates to his potential and how much relates to where we stood in terms of favours via Mendes network. People will say look at Neves for £15m compared to £35m for Silva. I’d say look at them as a combination not as a comparison.

Better to look at what we’ve paid / received from his clients or deals he’s been involved with as an overall and see where you stand.

On that basis, to my knowledge, we’ve brought / sold via him or clubs he’s associated with the following:

Brought: Cavaleiro, Costa, Mir, Miranda, Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jota, Patricio, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa = Approx £242m

Sold: Cavaleiro, Costa, Mir, Miranda, Jota, Patricio = Approx £104m

So for a net outlay of £138m we have the following still on our books:

Retained: Neves, Vinagre, Moutinho, Boly, Jimenez, Neto, Jordao, Podence, Campana, Silva, Semedo, Ait-Nouri, Sa

Are those players worth more than £138m? I’d say easily so overall we’ve won more than we’ve lost.

When people suggest Silva was a favour and question when we’ll get one back in return, even if that’s true, they forget the ones we’ve already had.

When you’re on the Mendes carousel, it’s not about whether you’re up or down on individual transfers, it’s about benefitting overall and surely we have so far?

Sorry, I know this isn’t the most relevant thread, but as Silva’s transfer is being brought in to yet another thread I thought I’d post this here too.

I guess at the moment it does feel like we're on a trough on the Wolves/Fosun roller coaster - vs where we were 4 and a half years ago we'd have been ecstatic at the prospect at strolling promotion, two top 7 finishes and a European adventure, however vs where we were 18 months ago it's disappointing.

Regardin the breaking down of the ins/outs - I do like this perspective, but don't overlook the TV revenue the club will have received for 3 years in the PL so far.

 

[Chris H]

I agree and I haven’t made a big deal about Morgan leaving, only where he’s gone.

No I know, I was just explaining what my original point was.

We’re basically debating separate points where we both seemingly agree with each other on the other one but are busy putting ours across I think!

 

[Chris H]

I guess at the moment it does feel like we're on a trough on the Wolves/Fosun roller coaster - vs where we were 4 and a half years ago we'd have been ecstatic at the prospect at strolling promotion, two top 7 finishes and a European adventure, however vs where we were 18 months ago it's disappointing.

Regardin the breaking down of the ins/outs - I do like this perspective, but don't overlook the TV revenue the club will have received for 3 years in the PL so far.

Yeah that’s fair, but I’m not talking about overall spend or anything like that. Simply the Mendes purchases in relation to Silva’s fee which continues to get brought up. My view is you can’t look at it in isolation but should view it as part over the overall ins and outs on Mendes clients and/or from Mendes related clubs.