In praise of FOSUN, Jeff and Matt

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion but can we now acknowledge that FOSUN have put us in a potentially great position by their actions over the summer and it appears they knew what they were doing. As @SteveBullsKnee said in another post the Everton decision will have sent shockwaves through the Premier League and a lot of clubs sailing close to the FFP wind will be very nervous now and looking at what they need to do in January and next summer.

By getting ahead of it and taking the pain now we could find ourselves in a very strong position in comparison to a lot of clubs come next season. Along with Matt Hobbs looking like he might have played an absolute blinder in appointing GON (although I concede it's too early to be sure) this could be the dawn of a return to the kind of success we had under NUNO. Europe in 2?

Of course I could be completely wrong. I thought Adam Le Fondre was a great signing so what do I know?

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

You can praise them, but you could also argue that it was their reckless mistakes (aside from Hobbs) that put us in a position where we had to make £140m or whatever it was in the first place.

 

[SuperGran]

In May there was a meeting apparently with those that were considered to be breaking profit and sustainability rules and given guidance on what needed to be done.

 

[SuperGran]

I’d agree that we shouldn’t have been in trouble anyway but Hobbs did a great job in difficult circumstances bringing the money in

 

[Brixton Wanderer]

Matt comes out of it with some credit. That’s it.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

You can praise them, but you could also argue that it was their reckless mistakes (aside from Hobbs) that put us in a position where we had to make £140m or whatever it was in the first place.

You always think I’m a club apologist but I think you’re 100% right on this. I praise the recovery and the boldness of being brave and putting things right but you have to acknowledge the errors in the first place.

FWIW I’ve always felt when they brought the club on the basis of Mendes recommendation that were either naive or arrogant (whichever way you look at it) as to what they could achieve. As a group they have a reputation for being aggressive and “disrupters” in business but that’s not how football is, it’s a million miles from the real world in that it can’t be tracked and valued commercially like other industries.

I think what started off as a partnership with Mendes/Gestifute has now been watered down to more of a working relationship. Personally I don’t think Mendes is the villain he’s made out to be. All he can do is introduce players, he can’t make them play! Guedes for instance if we’d got the Valencia version we’d have been ecstatic and his price would have been justified but it’s not down to Mendes that he “didn’t want it”.

Silva is the obvious big mistake but again that’s down to Fosun/Shi being naive and trying to do what Fosun did and be aggressive in the market. They probably thought they were like Dortmund buying Haaland and obviously from a sporting perspective that’s failed.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

The summer was the way it was by necessity, thanks to their chronic mismanagement.

I suppose we should be thankful they didn't do all of this and still breach the P&S rules (although let's wait for the accounts to be released before going overboard with the gratitude).

I suspect Everton will still stay up and will probably get their points deduction reduced, and the situation may also galvanise them and pull them together more as a club. In which case, you've got two approaches, neither of which were ideal, both of which ultimately achieve the same objective.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

You can praise them, but you could also argue that it was their reckless mistakes (aside from Hobbs) that put us in a position where we had to make £140m or whatever it was in the first place.

Mistakes yes, but I don't know how many can be classes as reckless. Appointing Lage was a mistake in hindsight but apart from that a lot of the moves that turned out to be wrong made sense at the time, at least to me. Even the Fabio signing.

 

[Minimalist]

You always think I’m a club apologist but I think you’re 100% right on this. I praise the recovery and the boldness of being brave and putting things right but you have to acknowledge the errors in the first place.

FWIW I’ve always felt when they brought the club on the basis of Mendes recommendation that were either naive or arrogant (whichever way you look at it) as to what they could achieve. As a group they have a reputation for being aggressive and “disrupters” in business but that’s not how football is, it’s a million miles from the real world in that it can’t be tracked and valued commercially like other industries.

I think what started off as a partnership with Mendes/Gestifute has now been watered down to more of a working relationship. Personally I don’t think Mendes is the villain he’s made out to be. All he can do is introduce players, he can’t make them play! Guedes for instance if we’d got the Valencia version we’d have been ecstatic and his price would have been justified but it’s not down to Mendes that he “didn’t want it”.

Silva is the obvious big mistake but again that’s down to Fosun/Shi being naive and trying to do what Fosun did and be aggressive in the market. They probably thought they were like Dortmund buying Haaland and obviously from a sporting perspective that’s failed.

No ownership or management can be expected to have 100% success on transfer dealings. Our problem has been that our failures have often been on the more expensive players, fees which we could afford but probably couldn’t afford to have fail. Maybe that’s been bad luck or maybe some sort of naivety or arrogance or misplaced trust in Mendes.

Fosun have made mistakes, but I think they are forgivable mistakes, provided they have learnt from them… which appears to be the case.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Sometimes we don’t know decisions are wrong until after they are made.
Hindsight and all that.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

Sometimes we don’t know decisions are wrong until after they are made.
Hindsight and all that.

Exactly the point I try and make. You can only judge the decisions in the context of when and why they were made. It's why I understand the Fabio signing. We had a world class no.9 so were never going to be able to sign another one, as no striker any good was going to come to sit on the bench and we couldn't afford a better one than the one we had. The next best thing is identify and sign a young striker who could spend a couple of seasons learning from Raul before becoming his natural replacement. Fabio fit that bill therefore it was a gamble worth taking. It hasn't worked out the way we planned for various reasons but that doesn't make it a reckless mistake.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Sometimes we don’t know decisions are wrong until after they are made.
Hindsight and all that.

It's actually even more complex than that. What is "wrong" is subjective and without knowing all of the factors considered (which we as fans rarely will) it is nigh on impossible to take an objective view.

 

[VancouverWolf]

It's actually even more complex than that. What is "wrong" is subjective and without knowing all of the factors considered (which we as fans rarely will) it is nigh on impossible to take an objective view.

Exactly how I feel.
We never get to see the factors, data and reasonings that go into football decisions, eg, Silva.
Obviously, there must have been enough justification for the club to take a punt on Silva.

Maybe we football fans are too quick to rush to judgement.

 

[SuperGran]

We’re in our 6th premier league season which is an achievement in itself
Longest top level run in my supporting lifetime

 

[QB Wolf]

We could have not signed Dawson, Lemina, Gomes and Cunha and got relegated instead.

 

[WKFWolf]

if you are quick enough to jump on them when they make a mistake, then you should be as quick in commending them when they get something right.

they seem to have started to learn a lot of lessons which will stand us in greater stead long term. long may this period continue

 

[WickedWolfie]

if you are quick enough to jump on them when they make a mistake, then you should be as quick in commending them when they get something right.

they seem to have started to learn a lot of lessons which will stand us in greater stead long term. long may this period continue

I hope that you are right. Certainly l am very pleasantly surprised by how this season has played out thus far.

 

[WKFWolf]

I hope that you are right. Certainly l am very pleasantly surprised by how this season has played out thus far.

yeh easy for me to say when we are doing well of course, but a lot of the decisions this year have made more sense than the previous two.
back to young and hungry prospects - not overpriced and can develop to make us better or flip for a profit
letting go of higher earners and people past their peak
getting onto the right side of FFP knowing things are being tightened up by the league
moving away from Mendes and using our own scouting
allowing an 'elite' manager to leave so we arent held to ransom and appointing someone who is on board with all of the above

 

[Wolf316]

Mistakes yes, but I don't know how many can be classes as reckless. Appointing Lage was a mistake in hindsight but apart from that a lot of the moves that turned out to be wrong made sense at the time, at least to me. Even the Fabio signing.

Lage should absolutely have gone in the summer though and I think many of us were very surprised he didn’t.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

In May there was a meeting apparently with those that were considered to be breaking profit and sustainability rules and given guidance on what needed to be done.

Any more information on this SG? It would be interesting to know the teams concerned and the guidance provided.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

In May there was a meeting apparently with those that were considered to be breaking profit and sustainability rules and given guidance on what needed to be done.

That would explain a lot, although why the PL would need to tell us is another question. Was John Percy lying under the table, writing down the £50m profit line (even though that's pretty meaningless for FFP).

 

[Wisdomwolf]

Any more information on this SG? It would be interesting to know the teams concerned and the guidance provided.

Nine clubs attended.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I’ve given plenty of credit to Fosun and Jeff in the past, and voiced my anger and frustration when prompted too. Jeff has done well at times, and made god awful decisions too. At times he’s been transparent and open, and at other times he’s lied and misdirected (based on how own conflicting statements and actions differing massively from words). I don’t think he’s the devil, nor do I think he’s god.

This season is progressing much better than I anticipated, and I’m both relieved and pleased. How much of that is luck or good judgment, I’m not sure yet. Let’s remember the same people in charge were about to appoint Beale until he turned them down. Let’s also remember that the same people gave JL a massive salary package, support in January, and then utterly failed to work with him to resolve their differences, costing us dearly this summer.

So my handle stays for now, but I can understand the thread and those supporting the OP, and I won’t criticise those who feel that way.

 

[Monk]

Nine clubs attended.

That's almost half the premier league - so the next 2 transfer windows could be interesting - some bargains may become available if clubs need to sell to get some money in quickly to avoid a breach of FFP.

 

[Timberwolf]

All those who **** the bed over the summer and made all those silly **** comments, will now go ‘ooh, I’ll hold my hand up..’ or ‘it was Hobbs’ or, as I’ve just read ‘it was Fosun’s fault we needed to sell’. I mean, just what the ****! Do these Charlies really think they’re that clever, that they can try and gaslight people into believing their ****ed up version of reality was correct? ****ing witless, the lot of ‘em.

 

[loppers86]

Jeff Shi has never personally got anything right… from spouting off about being the next Man City, through the stadium rebuild farce and the generational talent to lying to Loppers there is nothing good in between. Anything we have achieved with huge sums of fosun money has been despite him not because of him. If we had a savvy CEO we would have achieved much more than we have with Jeff’s meddling and randomisation and the sooner he goes the better.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

All those who **** the bed over the summer and made all those silly **** comments, will now go ‘ooh, I’ll hold my hand up..’ or ‘it was Hobbs’ or, as I’ve just read ‘it was Fosun’s fault we needed to sell’. I mean, just what the ****! Do these Charlies really think they’re that clever, that they can try and gaslight people into believing their ****ed up version of reality was correct? ****ing witless, the lot of ‘em.

What have you been told about sitting on the fence?? Pack it in now

 

[Timberwolf]

What have you been told about sitting on the fence?? Pack it in now

Was it too much…? I’m now thinking it was a tad too much.

 

[SuperGran]

Was it too much…? I’m now thinking it was a tad too much.

It was perfectly balanced

 

[Timberwolf]

Jeff Shi has never personally got anything right… from spouting off about being the next Man City, through the stadium rebuild farce and the generational talent to lying to Loppers there is nothing good in between. Anything we have achieved with huge sums of fosun money has been despite him not because of him. If we had a savvy CEO we would have achieved much more than we have with Jeff’s meddling and randomisation and the sooner he goes the better.

Half your lies aren’t true. How are we supposed go take you seriously when a lot of that is made up in your tiny brain.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

Was it too much…? I’m now thinking it was a tad too much.

No seemed quite balanced to me

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Hobbs did well, but FOSUN are responsible for this mess and Jeff should be sacked

The signing of Silva is inexcusable on all levels as is the mis-management and last minute change in decisions on transfer funds

 

[chignalwolf]

You can praise them, but you could also argue that it was their reckless mistakes (aside from Hobbs) that put us in a position where we had to make £140m or whatever it was in the first place.

Only my view on all this, Wolves were chucked under the bus when the corrupt premier league made sure Spurs qualified for Europe
that season and we lost out on 6th position to them. the money generated from Europe would have easily covered the problems' we have seen the last couple of seasons,

I still think everything changed at the club that season, ambitions were curtailed in every aspect from a new ground, or improvements,
strengthening the squad, etc etc,

BUT, have we actually turned the corner now and get back on track, personally i don't think politics will allow us or other clubs like us make a proper challenge v the chosen few,

 

[Timberwolf]

Hobbs did well, but FOSUN are responsible for this mess and Jeff should be sacked

The signing of Silva is inexcusable on all levels as is the mis-management and last minute change in decisions on transfer funds

Hahaha….do I really need to list all the players Wolves have made a profit on and the value of our current first eleven? I think you know, go on, admit you’re being silly

 

[WickedWolfie]

It was perfectly balanced

A chip on each shoulder you mean? Seriously long may the new regime prove my concerns wrong.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Jeff Shi has never personally got anything right… from spouting off about being the next Man City, through the stadium rebuild farce and the generational talent to lying to Loppers there is nothing good in between. Anything we have achieved with huge sums of fosun money has been despite him not because of him. If we had a savvy CEO we would have achieved much more than we have with Jeff’s meddling and randomisation and the sooner he goes the better.

Yet Fosun are a group who historically don’t suffer fools in their group but since Shi has been at wolves he’s had two promotions.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Hahaha….do I really need to list all the players Wolves have made a profit on and the value of our current first eleven? I think you know, go on, admit you’re being silly

Go on then, list them

 

[Streathamwolf]

Was it too much…? I’m now thinking it was a tad too much.

Definitely far too much in normal life. Slightly understated on here. Good effort.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Hobbs did well, but FOSUN are responsible for this mess and Jeff should be sacked

The signing of Silva is inexcusable on all levels as is the mis-management and last minute change in decisions on transfer funds

Is it a mess? I think that’s a stretch to be honest. We needed a refresh and reset of the squad, something needed since Nuno was here.

Fosun made mistakes, so has Jeff but he isn’t getting sacked

 

[VancouverWolf]

That's almost half the premier league - so the next 2 transfer windows could be interesting - some bargains may become available if clubs need to sell to get some money in quickly to avoid a breach of FFP.

Interesting point.