Fosun out?

[WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax]

I've not had time to listen to any of them yet, but for me (even as a millennial, Playstation playing fan) I don't care one bit about esports but equally don't get riled at all by Wolves' involvement in it. I can see the logic in using it to grow revenue, and using the recognisable Wolves logo to spearhead it. Do I think it's detracting from our scouting, instead of being at a game for the next hot talent, the bloke is watching a Twitch stream of League of Legends - not at all. It's strange to me that some think it's detracting from the on the pitch focus, different departments surely.

The only thing that'd ever worry me is if the revenue from it is not being funnelled back into Wolves - if Fosun use the Wolves logo to create money to spend elsewhere, that seems dubious. Still doesn't hurt Wolves FC, still doesn't mean there's less focus on the club, but it seems right and proper that that money is reinvested.

 

[Bogota Wolf]

That ‘edge’ you mentioned was covid…..

... and the Chinese Communist Party saying 'No more' to football investments in the UK and, I suspect certain other places after encouraging it! They have decided that they want this investment at home in China.

I guess its simpler to say, 'Nah, they promised, they're a set of ****s. Boo. Sell up!'.

 

[Fenrir_]

We haven't got depth in talent to be self sustainable. We dont have enough youngsters coming through

First off I wouldnt waste money money on players when money is tight and who we will never get a return on e.g. hwang, silva, cutrone.
We need a larger squad to encourage more competition for places. Performances improve all round as there isnt an automatic right for the same old players to get a start. We can then sell and replace without it leaving a gap in the team.
Give the young players out on loan a reason to want to come back rather than them preferring a move.

Right, as a football club and solely a football club, we are not becoming a regular major player. It doesn't matter what model you choose regarding youth etc, we're not big enough, we can't generate the income to compete and this is the thing you're clearly not getting. A sugar daddy can only take us so far until the rules catch up, and then you have an Everton situation. We have owners that are trying to grow the club away from football, which will ultimately help the football by creating a machine that generates its own money - you know, in the same kind of way that the sky six generate their money - that's what could possibly lead to us being long term and regular challengers, and you want them out for someone who'll come in and throw cash around for a couple of years

 

[St. Lukes Reserves]

Ask the Toon what its like to have an owner who sees the club as simply a commercial asset and premier league survival simply as a necessity for maintaining the profile of the brand.

I have no problems with exploring any avenue that benefits the progress of the club on the pitch but if you stop looking to improve and accept mid table mediocracy as the goal playing wise, there is a slippery slope in front of you.

 

[derbyrameater]

My memory isn't what it used to be but didn't they buy the club for 30mill? ,not sure how much they have invested but if it's now worth 300mill plus that's an awfully big profit

Which surely blows a hole in the profits of doom, that £300, million plummets with relegation so it’s in Fosuns interest to keep Wolves in the PL?

 

[Westbakejazz]

What assets are these?? Utter stupid, are you really this stupid.

Just can't believe people that talk utter *******s...

People are so weird and believe things that aren't there or true. Got to be confirmation bias at its worst...

Well read the guys post properly. He’s quite correct, albeit a very small spend.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Which surely blows a hole in the profits of doom, that £300, million plummets with relegation so it’s in Fosuns interest to keep Wolves in the PL?

No,no,no.... Fosun hate the club, and the fans, and they are only interested in Esports and fashion.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

I posted this on the stadium thread, but it’s perhaps more relevant here.

That is an excellent post. Naturally disappointed yes, but glad he came out and admitted it wasn't feasible now he's had 6 years in the job.

 

[Rhoswolf]

What assets are these?? Utter stupid, are you really this stupid.

Just can't believe people that talk utter *******s...

People are so weird and believe things that aren't there or true. Got to be confirmation bias at its worst...

Oh the irony of you calling other posters stupid and talking utter *******s and being weird for believing things that aren't true, frankly hilarious! Got any more transfer ITK rumours to share?

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

Well read the guys post properly. He’s quite correct, albeit a very small spend.

How is it asset stripping?
we’ve sold;
Cav
Costa
Jota
Doherty
Patricio
Vinagre

In the same period we bought
Podence
Neto
RAN
Semedo
Sa
Silva
Hoever
marcal
Hwang
Cutrone

I haven’t included loans or players like Toti, Chiquinho, Bolla etc

So exactly how is this asset stripping. You may not agree with the transfer policy (in or out) but there is no point in dressing it up as asset stripping. Because it is not.

 

[lostwolf]

Jeff 3 years ago said that Wolves had to be self-sufficient at that it wasn't time to go to Fosun for more free money. Was stupid to come in and proclaim the next City stuff but end of the day people need to get real a bit and move on from that, you'd be looking at billions of investment and then all the fake sponsorship's that makes it look like City actually generate revenue.

I've posted before but the top 6 are untouchable, over the course of a few seasons without outliers wage spend dictates league position almost always so can't break into those league positions consistently which makes the level of investment required unachievable other than a bolter season here or there.

We could battle for 7th every year though, Europa Conference League would be a good target I think. Trophy that is winnable as well.

These aspirations would be perfectly fine with me. I'm 43 and had my first season ticket in the mid-90s - I'm perfectly content with the battles you describe: ~7th regular-ish (and realistically some others could drop off so maybe even 5th occasionally; it ay that much of a closed shop season-by-season - see Arsenal last season) and challenging for cups and the lesser European competitions. That'd be ****ing ace for now.

Who do some of our Ywitterati, entitled ****s think we are, seriously, THIS. IS. OUR. LEVEL. (I know that's ****y use of caps and full stops but that's how ya make an emphatic point on here).

Fosun out? If they're threatening floating on the stock exchange then yes. It takes the management even further out of our hands (this deserves another thread), but otherwise, no probably not just now.

 

[Rangiora Wolf]

Right, as a football club and solely a football club, we are not becoming a regular major player. It doesn't matter what model you choose regarding youth etc, we're not big enough, we can't generate the income to compete and this is the thing you're clearly not getting. A sugar daddy can only take us so far until the rules catch up, and then you have an Everton situation. We have owners that are trying to grow the club away from football, which will ultimately help the football by creating a machine that generates its own money - you know, in the same kind of way that the sky six generate their money - that's what could possibly lead to us being long term and regular challengers, and you want them out for someone who'll come in and throw cash around for a couple of years

I hear what you're saying. I just dont like what Im seeing and hearing from these guys. Time will tell how it pans out.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Well it’s £1m they’ve got to earn somewhere else so it does make a difference. Not sure I’ve come across a company that is highly successful that just ignores £m of revenue.

The same company that lost a million by playing hwang in so many matches at the end of season

 

[S G Wolves]

Oh the irony of you calling other posters stupid and talking utter *******s and being weird for believing things that aren't true, frankly hilarious! Got any more transfer ITK rumours to share?

Really so what assets have been stripped in your dreamland....

 

[Scallywolf]

My memory isn't what it used to be but didn't they buy the club for 30mill? ,not sure how much they have invested but if it's now worth 300mill plus that's an awfully big profit

And to think Chelsea have been sold for
£4.25 billion. Yes £4.25 billion!

How this figure was arrived at baffles me!

Abramovich apparently paid £140 million for Chelsea in 2003. Yes, he’s spent a pile of his own money (which he ain’t getting back) but what a return on investment that is.

 

[Rhoswolf]

Really so what assets have been stripped in your dreamland....

When you use the term "dreamland" you lose any credibility for me, we've met, you know me so if that's your considered opinion little more to say.

 

[Fenrir_]

I hear what you're saying. I just dont like what Im seeing and hearing from these guys. Time will tell how it pans out.

Yeah it needs time, which nobody likes but it's just the truth. Simple fact is money controls football, with the new UEFA FFP we'll be even further adrift, and as an example, Spurs brought in over £400m in revenue last year, over twice what we did, we need to try to bridge that gap if we're ever getting there on a consistent basis and it's one almighty gap

 

[Stoichkov]

Be careful what you wish for

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Yeah it needs time, which nobody likes but it's just the truth. Simple fact is money controls football, with the new UEFA FFP we'll be even further adrift, and as an example, Spurs brought in over £400m in revenue last year, over twice what we did, we need to try to bridge that gap if we're ever getting there on a consistent basis and it's one almighty gap

You are right. Money buys better players. But I don't see how esports, or music or likes on Korean social media is going to bring in more money for the football club.

It might help to grow the brand, but to what end? Do we get bigger TV revenues? Do we get more corporate money? Or tourist fans?

Until I can see how this benefits the club then I am suspicious about Fosun's motives and strategy. Also, calling us legacy fans grates on my nerves. We are proper fans, the kind that buys tickets and shirts.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

Be careful what you wish for

Exactly. Everyone wanted Thelwell gone, we ended up with an even uglier Mick Hucknall

 

[bod101]

Success builds a sports brand, nothing else. Very naive to think anything else.

 

[VancouverWolf]

You are right. Money buys better players. But I don't see how esports, or music or likes on Korean social media is going to bring in more money for the football club.

It might help to grow the brand, but to what end? Do we get bigger TV revenues? Do we get more corporate money? Or tourist fans?

Until I can see how this benefits the club then I am suspicious about Fosun's motives and strategy. Also, calling us legacy fans grates on my nerves. We are proper fans, the kind that buys tickets and shirts.

If you have a good brand then sponsors will pay you. …….at least that’s my understanding of esports.

 

[Mugwump]

The sell to buy model is great in theory, but in practice we aren't getting it right. You don't sell Jota for example and replace him with somebody like Silva. You still buy promising talent, but you buy promising talent playing first team football, not youth team football.

You also have to be smart enough know when to sell and sell players who are relatively easy to replace but who you can get big money for. I'd use Adama and Boly for example. At the end of our Europa league season, we could have cashed in on both and got really good money. Now, we would be lucky to get 15 million for the pair.

 

[Stratman Wolves]

for all the Fosun out mob i say this be careful what you wish for lol

Be careful what you wish for

I remember hearing this all over MolMix in 2014 and 2015 when we got tired of Steve Morgan. Be careful for what you don't wish for...

 

[BlahBlah]

... and the Chinese Communist Party saying 'No more' to football investments in the UK and, I suspect certain other places after encouraging it! They have decided that they want this investment at home in China.

I guess its simpler to say, 'Nah, they promised, they're a set of ****s. Boo. Sell up!'.

Not exactly true. They stopped the wildly excessive vanity projects that have caused their own football league immense problems, and we've seen in our own country what dodgy owners with murky finances like Yeung and Xia did to clubs like Blues and Villa.
I know Yeung was jailed and is still getting assaulted in Hong Kong through non-payment of debts....and China are really cracking down on corruption in their own country.
As long as there is a social investment to accompany the football side, Fosun have been pretty much left alone to run as a proper business, which they seem to be doing.....they are already hugely investing into China and seem to have a good relationship with the party.

There is the international political issue of China and the UK that must have some effect on thoughts, just as it affects British people's perspectives on China as a country. The bottom line is though, they need to resolve these differences at some point and the UK needs massive partnership investment to make up for economic shortfalls, and China need to sell us stuff to keep themselves going.

 

[BlahBlah]

The sell to buy model is great in theory, but in practice we aren't getting it right. You don't sell Jota for example and replace him with somebody like Silva.

Thing is Mugwump, that's how we got Jota. After a few false starts with the Portugese he was described as just another unknown Portugese kid being dumped on Wolves before he'd kicked a ball for us. Some you win, some you lose....though we do now need another player from the top of the pile, rather than the middle.

 

[Wolfyyy]

Guys, Fosun has made a couple of questionable decisions (who doesn’t?!) over the past few years, but I find it mad that anyone would suggest “Fosun out”. Please take in account of where we were at over the last few decades - we are now hands down at our prime.

Bear in mind this is Fosun’s first major foray into one of the most competitive league in the world and they are probably learning while they make their every decision.

Do people honestly think there are many big time investors out there who would be trigger happy with their money splashing cash into the club? Look at the history of clubs who went down that route and how few of them succeeded and how many ended up in a whirlpool of financial mess? Is that seriously what the moaners wanted?

I think too many people are expecting immediate results, partly because we over achieved over the last few years and people now expect that to be the progressive norm down the road - that is simply not sustainable. From an investor’s point of view, if you are the one with the money, would you risk splashing out your cash for something that has got unknown risk?

The fact is, the top clubs have massive financial buoy thanks to their global sponsors/revenue. That’s where they get a bulk of their money from to reinvest it. We don’t have that as much, yet. What Fosun is doing now, I believe, is sensible. I think we really should be patient, be careful of we wish for, and don’t do a Derby County, recent Villa or current Everton!

We could try to get into CL by buying ready made players and perhaps double our current wage bill to compete with top 6. But what happens if we don’t get into CL or Europa (cue Man Utd)? Where do we get the money from to tide the following season? Out of our own pockets? For how many more seasons ahead?

 

[Mugwump]

Thing is Mugwump, that's how we got Jota. After a few false starts with the Portugese he was described as just another unknown Portugese kid being dumped on Wolves before he'd kicked a ball for us. Some you win, some you lose....though we do now need another player from the top of the pile, rather than the middle.

Tbf with Jota he had played a fair bit of first team football. Silva hadn't. Jota, for me anyway, was somebody I was aware of and had performed at a better level than youth football. We need , as you say, to start getting the Jota's , Neves and Netos again.

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Tbf with Jota he had played a fair bit of first team football. Silva hadn't. Jota, for me anyway, was somebody I was aware of and had performed at a better level than youth football. We need , as you say, to start getting the Jota's , Neves and Netos again.

Neto was Jota’s replacement, with Podence added in January as another winger option. Silva is the long-term replacement for Raul and was always considered “one for the future.” Chaps my hide when posters make this claim—so disingenuous.

 

[Mugwump]

Neto was Jota’s replacement, with Podence added in January as another winger option. Silva is the long-term replacement for Raul and was always considered “one for the future.” Chaps my hide when posters make this claim—so disingenuous.

Its probably reasonably rational to suggest Silva was a long term Raul replacement, but the terms of the deal were terrible. I get a lot of the fee is probably still clause based, but its still a hell of a lot of money for a player who isnt a full fledged first teamer.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

Its probably reasonably rational to suggest Silva was a long term Raul replacement, but the terms of the deal were terrible. I get a lot of the fee is probably still clause based, but its still a hell of a lot of money for a player who isnt a full fledged first teamer.

Not the point though. It is the attempt to link the Jota sale with Fabio's purchase, so often done, that prompted the response. The fact that Neto + Podence is a more positive use of the Jota proceeds, coupled with the upgrade of Doc for Semedo that is so often conveniently overlooked by people looking to critisise the recruitment strategy.

 

[Mugwump]

Not the point though. It is the attempt to link the Jota sale with Fabio's purchase, so often done, that prompted the response. The fact that Neto + Podence is a more positive use of the Jota proceeds, coupled with the upgrade of Doc for Semedo that is so often conveniently overlooked by people looking to critisise the recruitment strategy.

Neto signed in 2019 so Jota's sale had nothing to do with his signing Pedro. Same with Podence. He signed in the January window in 2020 and we sold Jota in September 2020. Jota's sale had no impact on either of those two. Probably the best link to what we did with a fair chunk of the Jota sale was us signing Semedo, which we did after Diogo left.

I'd still say Fabio was bought in to replace Raul eventually, its just not happened the way it probably needed it to.

 

[Pagey]

You are right. Money buys better players. But I don't see how esports, or music or likes on Korean social media is going to bring in more money for the football club.

It might help to grow the brand, but to what end? Do we get bigger TV revenues? Do we get more corporate money? Or tourist fans?

Until I can see how this benefits the club then I am suspicious about Fosun's motives and strategy. Also, calling us legacy fans grates on my nerves. We are proper fans, the kind that buys tickets and shirts.

Advertising revenues?

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Advertising revenues?

According to Shi, we are now a Corporate - Fosun Sports - we have diversified into esports and music. We will get more fans globally who they can monetise.

So, Fosun sells Wolves branded clothing to kids in Asia, and sells advertising attracted by the brand, and maybe some of that money will trickle down to Wolves.

The downside is we have to buy players from China and our coach will be told who plays based on Internet viewing projections. We won't invest in the ground because legacy fans aren't as important.

Does any other team have this business model?

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Success builds a sports brand, nothing else. Very naive to think anything else.

Absolutely, if Man U were relegated and stuck in the championship for a few years that stadium would look daft with only 30k in there and all the foreign fans would be swapping to a different red shirt, it's not rocket science to understand that to grow a brand you play sexy football and challenge for trophies, which gains media attention, that's it, it's all about what happens on the pitch.

If we don't adequately replace the players who are seemingly leaving this summer (or have already left) then we won't increase "the brand"

 

[Ned]

They’ve reached the next window in which they need to speculate to accumulate as owners.

I’m all for other avenues of income (if the club sees the benefit) but there’s no point in trying to polish a turd. We aren’t a turd yet, of course, but without investment in this window rather than “being creative in the market” (where we jiggle things around and stay mid table) then we will start to turn brown.

It wasn’t so long ago that we were a lot of people’s second team, no big team saw us as an easy game and we really looked as if we could turn the big 6 into a 7. But Fosun pulled the plug and got comfortable so here we are.

 

[CodsallWolf]

According to Shi, we are now a Corporate - Fosun Sports - we have diversified into esports and music. We will get more fans globally who they can monetise.

So, Fosun sells Wolves branded clothing to kids in Asia, and sells advertising attracted by the brand, and maybe some of that money will trickle down to Wolves.

The downside is we have to buy players from China and our coach will be told who plays based on Internet viewing projections. We won't invest in the ground because legacy fans aren't as important.

Does any other team have this business model?

Help me understand the motivation for kids in Asia to but Wolves branded clothing in the absence of a connection to a successful on-field identity. I just don’t follow it, and certainly don’t see the Wolves brand being developed as a stand-alone fashion label. We are in la la land if that is the thinking.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Why are price rises unacceptable. Prices go up due to inflationary pressures.

Obviously different rates of inflation in Leicester, Southampton, Brentford etc….

Do you have a season ticket?

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Obviously different rates of inflation in Leicester, Southampton, Brentford etc….

Do you have a season ticket?

Yes

 

[Hot Fuss]

Yes

Do you think it’s right that Leicester fans behind the goal pay £100 odd less than us for season tickets?

Yes or no?