England Women: The Lionesses

[goldfish]

What’s this, Germany as sore losers? Surely can’t be. The epitome of logic and sporting greatness humbled by losing two Wembley finals in almost 60 years

'Another Wembley scam!' - German media claim England 'cheated' in Euro 2022 final — Metro

'At this level, this shouldn't happen.'

apple.news

Frauen-EM: Wut auf die Skandal-Schiris – Maulkorb für den VAR

Die deutschen Fußballerinnen werden im EM-Finale gegen England um einen klaren Elfmeter gebracht. Die Schiris schweigen nach Schlusspfiff.

www.bild.de

Not only that, but now the British press are in a conspiracy of silence over the “crystal clear penalty”!

Frauen-EM: Britische Presse verschweigt den neuen Wembley-Betrug

Deutschland wird ein klarer Handelfmeter verweigert. Über die Aufreger-Szene im EM-Finale verlieren die englischen Medien kein Wort.

www.bild.de

Bild are regarded as an embarrassment by most Germans and the rest of the press is far less outraged. There are questions about the (non-) penalty, as there would be from the English media if it was the other way round (I don't think there's a 'conspiracy' as that suggests coordination, but it's telling that we didn't even get a replay of the ball hitting Williamson's arm).

 

[Flump]

More broadly, I am not comfortable in how the women's game, particularly recent international tournaments, has been astroturfed into the public conscience by media outlets like the BBC over far more meritocratically successful competitions like the Championship. Top-tier women's Football averaged 1000 spectators per game just last year, yet I'm supposed to believe there was an 87-fold increase on that number for the final because of an organic growth in popularity since? Sure. It's certainly a stark reminder of the power of the BBC to engineer interest and shape perception. There are politically socialist / equality of outcome overtones in that which I cannot abide, from a media outlet mind that were complaining only a few days ago that there aren't enough black people in the team. Gone quiet there, ain't they?

When was the last time a Championship game got a TV audience of 17million?

What's socialist about that many people deciding to tune in to watch? That's nothing if not the market deciding.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Bild are regarded as an embarrassment by most Germans and the rest of the press is far less outraged. There are questions about the (non-) penalty, as there would be from the English media if it was the other way round (I don't think there's a 'conspiracy' as that suggests coordination, but it's telling that we didn't even get a replay of the ball hitting Williamson's arm).

The rest of the press were less outspoken, but it wasn’t the only outlet to focus on the (non) penalty decision. It is embarrassing when the handball decision is portrayed as a conspiracy given that it was a multi national team of officials involved on the pitch and in the VAR studio. If Im honest, the referee seemed to be giving a lot of marginal decisions in Germany’s favour, so it’s funny the only decision they didn’t get is the one being referenced to support this “conspiracy” or bias!

Yes the English press would have been just the same if the reverse had happened. I remember the hand of god. My point was more that German press and officials have called out the reactionary U.K. press and fans who cannot lose with dignity. That’s easy to say when you win every single time (as the German team have) but clearly we are all the same when we lose. It’s the same on here with Wolves games.

So next time Germany wins against England, and England cries foul over some decision, let’s remember that Germany are not immune to looking for scapegoats.

‘New Wembley fraud’: how German press covered the Euro 2022 final

Germany’s leading tabloid, Bild, said the Lionesses’ victory had a “nasty, rotten smell” and furiously blamed a supposed referee error for Germany’s 2-1 defeat.The paper claimed that the nation had been cheated at Wembley once again after Geoff Hurst’s controversial strike in the 1966 final, running

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[JonahWolf]

I’m Hoping the success of the England ladies might inspire Shi to change his mind and put a bit more investment into Wolves ladies - it will be chickenfeed compared to the mens team but a little money would go a long way for our ladies team and we could really make a leap forward - plus start attracting girls and women of all backgrounds into the game.

I think they have to an extent though, certainly relative to the level they’re currently at.
It’s the league and promotion system (plus the COVID suspensions) that are more of a barrier than actual team ability or funding at present.

Don’t have exact numbers, but apparently we are paying very well for that level, and recruited a number of players from leagues above, mostly those that wanted to avoid full-time professional as it would interfere with existing careers or work-life balance.
I know there is progress with the academy and under-age teams, as a girl my son was in hospital with was having trials and trying to get into a women’s team and is a Wolves fan…but it was Kiddie, Stourbridge and Wolves, that are not at overly different levels in women’s game.

If can finally escape the lower leagues, then further investment would help, but at the moment, still trapped by a static system of 1 promotion between 2 regional divisions. Madness.

 

[reanswolf]

I'm chuffed for the ladies and will always back English sportsmen/women in a final against Germany especially! I could only watch parts of the final, but what I saw was decent. It was a top-class finish by Toone for 1-0, but all three goals stemmed from poor defending (which is one of the outstanding issues about the women's game). Only a black-hearted ghoul wouldn't draw some enthusiasm from the effect this is having on girls throughout the nation.

I am not so enthused however about the "the women have done what the men can't" comments. It's been suggested we enjoy women's football in of itself and not make comparisons to the men's game. Rightly so, they're incomparable for a number of reasons; yet this provocative crap predictably creeps through - from those who are happy to dispense labels like "manlet" or "troll". There's more than a hint of projection in that.

More broadly, I am not comfortable with how the women's game, particularly recent international tournaments, has been astroturfed into the public conscience by media outlets like the BBC over far more organically successful competitions like the Championship. There are politically socialist / equality of outcome overtones in that which I cannot abide, from a media outlet mind that were complaining only a few days ago that there aren't enough black women in the team. Top-tier women's Football averaged 1000 spectators per game just last year, yet I'm supposed to believe there was a full house at Wembley for the final because of an meritocratic growth in popularity since? Sure. It's certainly a stark reminder of the power of the media to engineer interest and shape perception.

Don’t even try this rational mate, they will slaughter you.

I agree entirely however, I know it’s largely but not entirely media- driven. It’s the way British society is these days.

Having said that, they have done fantastically well and the victory affords opportunity for the womens game to evolve, it provides more opportunity for young girls to play. These are wonderful bonuses.

Myself, I just can’t bring myself to feel elated in any way, and I’m not sure if that is bad? It’s not that I am not really pleased for the girls, I am. I just can’t feel any real emotion.

Just picked up my Wolves mad teenage lad from his shift at work, who went to the pub to watch it with his mom to the pub. I expected him to be enthused but he was very indifferent.

Absolute credit to the girls, but perversely, and perhaps incorrectly, it just makes you dream of what it would be like if your team(someone you really care for) won something.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other I know, but how do people feel elated at something they haven’t by and large been previously that bothered about? I just don’t get it, I can’t latch on to something in 5 minutes. This doesn’t obviously apply to fans who have followed England ladies for ages, but for most it’s just an excuse for a **** up. But I admit it is the same when England men play, to a lesser degree.

 

[Jefe]

When was the last time a Championship game got a TV audience of 17million?
What's socialist about that many people deciding to tune in to watch? That's nothing if not the market deciding.

I'll start by pointing out 17m is the peak viewing figure. The average was 11m, which as an aside is barely a third of the average viewing figure for the Euro 2020 final. Championship games aren't shown on terrestrial television, which is free at the point of use; they are usually accessible through more exclusionary subscription models like Sky. They are typically aired at the same time as other Championship / Premier League games and are therefore struggling for eyeballs. Being domestic, any given league fixture will have limited appeal outside of fans of the two clubs, the most commited of whom will be at the stadium in person. With those things combined, it's no surprise a typical Championship game won't garner the same numbers as an international final that unites fans along patriotic lines.

My argument is people are tuning in because they have been influenced in large part by forces outside of market norms. The BBC are licence payer funded and are therefore not accountable to shareholders. They in particular have aggressively propagated the women's game over more conventionally profitable competitions. They in particular can afford to push 'equity' or other sociopolitical aims with near impunity. At this point, I am convinced you can popularise almost anything if you aggressively advertise it for long enough. I am reminded of that George Carlin quote: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that."

 

[reanswolf]

I'll start by pointing out 17m is the peak viewing figure. The average was 11m, which as an aside is barely a third of the average viewing figure for the Euro 2020 final. Championship games aren't shown on terrestrial television, which is free at the point of use; they are usually accessible through more exclusionary subscription models like Sky. They are typically aired at the same time as other Championship / Premier League games and are therefore struggling for eyeballs. Being domestic, any given league fixture will have limited appeal outside of fans of the two clubs, the most commited of whom will be at the stadium in person. With those things combined, it's no surprise a typical Championship game won't garner the same numbers as an international final that unites fans along patriotic lines.

My argument is people are tuning in because they have been influenced in large part by forces outside of market norms. The BBC are licence payer funded and are therefore not accountable to shareholders. They in particular have aggressively propagated the women's game over more conventionally profitable competitions. They in particular can afford to push 'equity' or other sociopolitical aims with near impunity. At this point, I am convinced you can popularise almost anything if you aggressively advertise it for long enough. I am reminded of that George Carlin quote: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that."

You are so much more eloquent than I could ever be.

I feel exactly the same, I hate the way the press have become propaganda machines for causes. It’s not the causes I have a problem with, it’s the indoctrination that people increasingly don’t even recognise that worries me.

As a Country, our thinking is being driven by the media. I know that’s patronising and condescending to many, but there’s truth to it.

 

[Flump]

I'll start by pointing out 17m is the peak viewing figure. The average was 11m, which as an aside is barely a third of the average viewing figure for the Euro 2020 final. Championship games aren't shown on terrestrial television, which is free at the point of use; they are usually accessible through more exclusionary subscription models like Sky. They are typically aired at the same time as other Championship / Premier League games and are therefore struggling for eyeballs. Being domestic, any given league fixture will have limited appeal outside of fans of the two clubs, many of whom will be at the stadium in person. With those things combined, it's no surprise a typical Championship game won't garner the same numbers as an international final that unites fans along ethnic lines.

My argument is people are tuning in because they have been influenced by forces outside of market norms. The BBC are licence payer funded and are therefore not accountable to shareholders. They in particular have aggressively propagated of the women's game over more conventionally profitable competitions. They in particular can afford to push 'equity' or other sociopolitical aims with near impunity. At this point, I am convinced you can popularise almost anything if you aggressively advertise it for long enough. I think of that George Carlin quote: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that."

Yes, it was an average of "only" 11m when including all the build-up.

That places it higher than the average for literally every programme that has aired this year apart from the Jubilee, and all but 3 of the last men's Euros games.

So whichever way you want to look at it, a lot of people wanted to watch.

Your second paragraph starts to descend into tin-foil hat territory. But in case you aren't aware, the BBC is quite openly designed to give coverage to events that wouldn't be covered otherwise. It would be weird if the national broadcaster wasn't showing the women's version of our most popular sport, during the 2nd biggest competition there is.

This really does fit with their Mission, which is to serve all audiences. It's a bit dry, but if you're interested, then you can read more here.

The Mission of the BBC is to act in the public interest, serving all audiences through the provision of impartial, high-quality and distinctive output and services which inform, educate and entertain.

If you're such a fan of market forces, then I take it you never complain about excess coverage of the "Sky 6"? Because if it's left to the market to decide, we're only going to get a mention when we're playing Liverpool, United or maybe City.

There are certainly limits on what you can popularise, just look at NFL's endless attempts to break into the UK/Europe, or the slow progress made by Soccer in the US. Realistically, there's a pretty obvious reason for why everyone wanted to watch - because our team is really good.

 

[Jefe]

Don’t even try this rational mate, they will slaughter you. I agree entirely however, I know it’s largely but not entirely media- driven. It’s the way British society is these days.

Having said that, they have done fantastically well and the victory affords opportunity for the womens game to evolve, it provides more opportunity for young girls to play. These are wonderful bonuses. Myself, I just can’t bring myself to feel elated in any way, and I’m not sure if that is bad? It’s not that I am not really pleased for the girls, I am. I just can’t feel any real emotion.

Just picked up my Wolves mad teenage lad from his shift at work, who went to the pub to watch it with his mom to the pub. I expected him to be enthused but he was very indifferent.

Absolute credit to the girls, but perversely, and perhaps incorrectly, it just makes you dream of what it would be like if your team(someone you really care for) won something.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other I know, but how do people feel elated at something they haven’t by and large been previously that bothered about? I just don’t get it, I can’t latch on to something in 5 minutes. This doesn’t obviously apply to fans who have followed England ladies for ages, but for most it’s just an excuse for a **** up. But I admit it is the same when England men play, to a lesser degree.

As you imply from your post, Brits (maybe Westerners in general) have a habit of herding themselves toward trends, go crazy for 'the current thing' mentality. Will this success result in attendances significantly climbing in the Women's League from 1000 per game averages? We'll see, but I highly doubt it because of how our migratory attention spans seem to work. I'm sure the BBC will continue to give it a good college try. I'd like to see the women's game improve in stature, not least because the reluctance to cheat is highly refreshing. The standard of ball retention still has a long way to go. Germany only completed 68% of their passes, which is pretty poor for a finalist.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Don’t even try this rational mate, they will slaughter you.

I agree entirely however, I know it’s largely but not entirely media- driven. It’s the way British society is these days.

Having said that, they have done fantastically well and the victory affords opportunity for the womens game to evolve, it provides more opportunity for young girls to play. These are wonderful bonuses.

Myself, I just can’t bring myself to feel elated in any way, and I’m not sure if that is bad? It’s not that I am not really pleased for the girls, I am. I just can’t feel any real emotion.

Just picked up my Wolves mad teenage lad from his shift at work, who went to the pub to watch it with his mom to the pub. I expected him to be enthused but he was very indifferent.

Absolute credit to the girls, but perversely, and perhaps incorrectly, it just makes you dream of what it would be like if your team(someone you really care for) won something.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other I know, but how do people feel elated at something they haven’t by and large been previously that bothered about? I just don’t get it, I can’t latch on to something in 5 minutes. This doesn’t obviously apply to fans who have followed England ladies for ages, but for most it’s just an excuse for a **** up. But I admit it is the same when England men play, to a lesser degree.

This is exactly right.

England couldn't even sell out for the quarter-final and semi-final at Brighton & Sheff U's stadiums. So, like so many, it's fake. They see this is the 'right' thing to do, so they jump on board. They don't really care.

It covers many topics as well. I've not seen Hwang's racial abuse mentioned on SSN today. It's not attracted much attention on Twitter. Why? In fact, it didn't even get much coverage here. We know why.

Of course, as you say, it's important to state not everyone is like this. So for those who have followed the England team closely they are rightly loving this moment and obviously the players have done well, so fair play to them.

But for many this is the latest trend and they join in.

Hopefully it can have a knock-on effect of positive long-term benefits though, like equal opportunities at schools and so on.

 

[thommo1984]

England couldn't even sell out for the quarter-final and semi-final at Brighton & Sheff U's stadiums

The semi-final was sold-out pre-tournament. They added 2000 tickets after the 1/4 final which sold-out in 10 minutes, so I'm not sure where you're getting your info from.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

The semi-final was sold-out pre-tournament. They added 2000 tickets after the 1/4 final which sold-out in 10 minutes, so I'm not sure where you're getting your info from.

I'm getting my info from the BBC saying the attendance was 28,624 for the semi-final at Bramall Lane, which holds over 32,000.

For the quarter-final it was 28,994 at the Amex Stadium that holds 31,800.

 

[Streathamwolf]

Guaranteed that a few couldn't resist ****ing on the women's parade. Hope it makes you feel important.

 

[Flump]

I'm getting my info from the BBC saying the attendance was 28,624 for the semi-final at Bramall Lane, which holds over 32,000.

For the quarter-final it was 28,994 at the Amex Stadium that holds 31,800.

Not the best way of looking at it, when all the various UEFA, competition and TV rules mean that capacities frequently change and get reduced.

Looks like it was sold out, unless that's just the MSM pushing their agenda!

 

[reanswolf]

Guaranteed that a few couldn't resist ****ing on the women's parade. Hope it makes you feel important.

I think it’s you who wants to look important.

How the **** is discussing something on a Wolves forum, even praising the girls and highlighting positives, ****ing on your parade.

Good grief go and enjoy yourself and indulge in your elation. The girls were great BTW.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Not the best way of looking at it, when all the various UEFA, competition and TV rules mean that capacities frequently change and get reduced.

Looks like it was sold out, unless that's just the MSM pushing their agenda!

Fair enough, seems odd that 3,000 tickets would not go on sale.

 

[Flump]

Fair enough, seems odd that 3,000 tickets would not go on sale.

Given UEFA and the FA were involved, they probably needed more space for Prawn Sandwich tables.

 

[Contrarian]

My argument is people are tuning in because they have been influenced in large part by forces outside of market norms. The BBC are licence payer funded and are therefore not accountable to shareholders. They in particular have aggressively propagated the women's game over more conventionally profitable competitions. They in particular can afford to push 'equity' or other sociopolitical aims with near impunity. At this point, I am convinced you can popularise almost anything if you aggressively advertise it for long enough. I am reminded of that George Carlin quote: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that."

It's the same for everything. In general election run ups, time and time again, when people are questioned, they are wrong on the facts of many things. They get those ideas from media bias - and while all sides are pefectly capable of deceiving and twisting, the majority of the media in the UK is not interested in equality, or anything resembling it.

I do agree with what you are saying about women's football. Yes, the hype came first and the interest later. But that's exactly how it works for everything. No media outlet reports news in direct proportion to the public interest. Women's football being hyped is the least of our worries, given the diet of rubbish we are spoon fed on matters much more important.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Guaranteed that a few couldn't resist ****ing on the women's parade. Hope it makes you feel important.

There does seem a direct correlation between those who are having a moan on here about the lionesses also moan about all things wolves from transfers, stadium, tickets, owners, tactics………. Obviously just missing some joy in their life. It takes an incredible effort to find something negative about the womens team winning the Euros but the same old faces somehow manage it.

 

[Jefe]

Yes, it was an average of "only" 11m when including all the build-up. That places it higher than the average for literally every programme that has aired this year apart from the Jubilee, and all but 3 of the last men's Euros games. So whichever way you want to look at it, a lot of people wanted to watch.

Your second paragraph starts to descend into tin-foil hat territory. But in case you aren't aware, the BBC is quite openly designed to give coverage to events that wouldn't be covered otherwise. It would be weird if the national broadcaster wasn't showing the women's version of our most popular sport, during the 2nd biggest competition there is.

This really does fit with their Mission, which is to serve all audiences. It's a bit dry, but if you're interested, then you can read more here.

If you're such a fan of market forces, then I take it you never complain about excess coverage of the "Sky 6"? Because if it's left to the market to decide, we're only going to get a mention when we're playing Liverpool, United or maybe City.

There are certainly limits on what you can popularise, just look at NFL's endless attempts to break into the UK/Europe, or the slow progress made by Soccer in the US. Realistically, there's a pretty obvious reason for why everyone wanted to watch - because our team is really good.

I’ve no principled problem with Sky’s coverage catering more to the most well-supported clubs. It makes clear sense, even if it grates with our emotional responses. Those who complain about Wolves receiving less attention than City and Liverpool would no doubt be thrilled if we do muscle our way into the pack and receive some attention. It should be intuitive that City used to be one of those clubs on the outside looking in.

The 11m viewing figure is totaled across BBC and ITV, so this needs to be reckoned against your viewing figure argument; an episode of Corrie won’t stand up to that. It should be noted that this year, England’s men have played in two literal friendlies and three glorified friendlies that nobody wanted, with weakened sides, at the end of a congested season, viewable on only one channel.

But yes, I accept a lot of people tuned in to watch the Lionesses. I have offered my reasons for why I think that is here, particularly when juxtaposed with the miniscule bread-and-butter attendances of the WSL. Lazy accusations of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories are more indicative of a lack of critical thought on your part, if I may be so bold. To wit, I didn't suggest the BBC shouldn't show women's football as you imply, I said they shouldn't forward it in an inflated, activistic way that chafes against normal market forces; the thought they are a neutral outfit that try to cater for all audiences, is cute.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

There does seem a direct correlation between those who are having a moan on here about the lionesses also moan about all things wolves from transfers, stadium, tickets, owners, tactics………. Obviously just missing some joy in their life. It takes an incredible effort to find something negative about the womens team winning the Euros but the same old faces somehow manage it.

Nobody is saying anything negative about the womens team.

 

[S G Wolves]

Nobody is saying anything negative about the womens team.

I think you are desperately trying to, to be fair....

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I think you are desperately trying to, to be fair....

Well, that's down to you.

I'm confident in predicting I watched more of the overall tournament than the vast majority on here - and I enjoyed it, as I do with most football.

Doesn't change the fact that the media portrayal and reaction since can be questioned, which is completely different to questioning the team - as you know

 

[Flump]

The 11m viewing figure is totaled across BBC and ITV, so this needs to be reckoned against your viewing figure argument; an episode of Corrie won’t stand up to that.

It wasn't on ITV yesterday, unless I've missed it/misunderstood what you're saying?

And I'm not making an argument about viewing figures - it is simply a fact that a lot of people watched!

But yes, I accept a lot of people tuned in to watch the Lionesses. I have offered my reasons for why I think that is here, particularly when juxtaposed with the miniscule bread-and-butter attendances of the WSL, and the less than impressive figures in previous rounds. Lazy accusations of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories are more indicative of a lack of critical thought on your part, if I may be so bold. To wit, I didn't suggest the BBC shouldn't show women's football as you imply, I said they shouldn't forward it in an inflated, activistic way that chafes against normal market forces; the thought they are a neutral outfit that try to cater for all audiences, is cute.

It's quite clear that all sports have a hierarchy of how high profile various events are - within mens football, more people will watch England in the latter stages of a tournament, than watched Fulham v Burnley, or whichever EPL games were televised FTA during covid. England in a women's Euros final is right up there, which is why it got that much higher an audience than the WSL.

Millions watched the 2005 Ashes, despite the miniscule bread-and-butter audiences watching the Benson & Hedges Sunday League, or watch the Olympics every 4 years despite miniscule bread-and-butter audiences to the Diamond League every month. Neither of those are because the BBC tricked us into watching to suit an agenda - it's just more interesting when England might win something!

If the BBC is desperately ramming women's football down a disinterested public's throat, then presumably all the WSL games are televised on BBC1 multiple times a week? But it looks like most of it is just shown on the FA Player, whatever that is, with 1 a week for BBC (2), and 2 for Sky Sports.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

I'll start by pointing out 17m is the peak viewing figure. The average was 11m, which as an aside is barely a third of the average viewing figure for the Euro 2020 final. Championship games aren't shown on terrestrial television, which is free at the point of use; they are usually accessible through more exclusionary subscription models like Sky. They are typically aired at the same time as other Championship / Premier League games and are therefore struggling for eyeballs. Being domestic, any given league fixture will have limited appeal outside of fans of the two clubs, the most commited of whom will be at the stadium in person. With those things combined, it's no surprise a typical Championship game won't garner the same numbers as an international final that unites fans along patriotic lines.

My argument is people are tuning in because they have been influenced in large part by forces outside of market norms. The BBC are licence payer funded and are therefore not accountable to shareholders. They in particular have aggressively propagated the women's game over more conventionally profitable competitions. They in particular can afford to push 'equity' or other sociopolitical aims with near impunity. At this point, I am convinced you can popularise almost anything if you aggressively advertise it for long enough. I am reminded of that George Carlin quote: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that."

So, if the influence comes from a minority who are motivated by their own profit it is acceptable? What you object to, is public service broadcasting doing the job it has been given by governments of all persuasions and by a general consensus of British society since the war. But of course most of us who make up that consensus are stupid, because of our belief In sociopolitical aims that you apparently do not share.

 

[SanFranWolf]

I’m Hoping the success of the England ladies might inspire Shi to change his mind and put a bit more investment into Wolves ladies - it will be chickenfeed compared to the mens team but a little money would go a long way for our ladies team and we could really make a leap forward - plus start attracting girls and women of all backgrounds into the game.

Absolutely this - great post @Boss Hogg - 100% agree.

As you all know my family are all die hard Wolves, My niece plays football and her and a few have team mates have already been scouted by the Villa. These kids have already had free tickets, merchandise (which my niece refused lol) and the tour of Villa Park.

Where are we?

 

[Wonder Boyo]

Yes, it was an average of "only" 11m when including all the build-up.

That places it higher than the average for literally every programme that has aired this year apart from the Jubilee, and all but 3 of the last men's Euros games.

So whichever way you want to look at it, a lot of people wanted to watch.

Your second paragraph starts to descend into tin-foil hat territory. But in case you aren't aware, the BBC is quite openly designed to give coverage to events that wouldn't be covered otherwise. It would be weird if the national broadcaster wasn't showing the women's version of our most popular sport, during the 2nd biggest competition there is.

This really does fit with their Mission, which is to serve all audiences. It's a bit dry, but if you're interested, then you can read more here.



If you're such a fan of market forces, then I take it you never complain about excess coverage of the "Sky 6"? Because if it's left to the market to decide, we're only going to get a mention when we're playing Liverpool, United or maybe City.

There are certainly limits on what you can popularise, just look at NFL's endless attempts to break into the UK/Europe, or the slow progress made by Soccer in the US. Realistically, there's a pretty obvious reason for why everyone wanted to watch - because our team is really good.

Haven't got any figures to hand, but would be interested to compare the viewing figures of England women's games throughout the Euros and the Liverpool v Manchester City Community Shield, featuring England's two top teams, which was free to air on terrestrial TV on Saturday on ITV. There are also quite a number of FA Cup ties now on free to air terrestrial TV featuring Premier League and EFL teams, I wonder how they also compare.

 

[Jefe]

So, if the influence comes from a minority who are motivated by their own profit it is acceptable? What you object to, is public service broadcasting doing the job it has been given by governments of all persuasions and by a general consensus of British society since the war. But of course most of us who make up that consensus are stupid, because of our belief In sociopolitical aims that you apparently do not share.

Calls to strip license-payer funds from the BBC have never been louder, probably because their claims of neutrality have never seemed flimsier. You seem to be describing a gold-tinted era that I'm not sure exists anymore. I will say it loudly and proudly, I am 100% against equality of outcome, the engineering of consent, or any other form of top-down institutional influence to those ends. We can argue the toss about predatory practices that help improve profit margins elsewhere, but without an organic collective will to consume a product, there is no profit – unless profit is of no concern like the BBC. If that fat cat minority’s will is for nothing else than to make money, in a darkly ironic way that may be the purest reflection of the people’s will there is.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

Calls to strip license-payer funds from the BBC have never been louder, probably because their claims of neutrality have never seemed flimsier. I will say it loudly and proudly, I am 100% against equality of outcome, the engineering of consent, or any other form of top-down institutional influence to those ends. We can argue the toss about predatory practices that help improve profit margins elsewhere, but without an organic collective will to consume a product, there is no profit – unless you are in a position to engineer one. If that fat cat minority’s will is for nothing else than to make money, in a darkly ironic way that may be the purest reflection of the people’s will there is.

There really is no reply necessary to this statement. It deserves to be judged on its own merits - which are, thankfully, outside the scope of a football forum.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Well, that's down to you.

I'm confident in predicting I watched more of the overall tournament than the vast majority on here - and I enjoyed it, as I do with most football.

Doesn't change the fact that the media portrayal and reaction since can be questioned, which is completely different to questioning the team - as you know

You enjoy football? That’s actually suprised me.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

You enjoy football? That’s actually suprised me.

'most' - not Wolves

 

[reanswolf]

There does seem a direct correlation between those who are having a moan on here about the lionesses also moan about all things wolves from transfers, stadium, tickets, owners, tactics………. Obviously just missing some joy in their life. It takes an incredible effort to find something negative about the womens team winning the Euros but the same old faces somehow manage it.

If thAt was the case you’d have been first on here SBK -

 

[reanswolf]

Absolutely this - great post @Boss Hogg - 100% agree.

As you all know my family are all die hard Wolves, My niece plays football and her and a few have team mates have already been scouted by the Villa. These kids have already had free tickets, merchandise (which my niece refused lol) and the tour of Villa Park.

Where are we?

Wolves could open Molineux for Wolves Women. Ok I know it wouldn’t be full but it would be a great boost for the girls.

 

[Streathamwolf]

There does seem a direct correlation between those who are having a moan on here about the lionesses also moan about all things wolves from transfers, stadium, tickets, owners, tactics………. Obviously just missing some joy in their life. It takes an incredible effort to find something negative about the womens team winning the Euros but the same old faces somehow manage it.

I was going to continue making the point but, honestly, I can't be bothered with them. Maybe a litigator could??

 

[Dr Wolfenstein]

It was involved several times but usually in the background
It was a bit slow with our winning goal i think and one possible penalty but otherwise hardly mentioned
As you say little diving and rolling around,thought the Germans got away with a few things and got a bit fiesty as we ran down the clock, but that just shows how much they wanted it too

The important point for me was that we really didn't miss the presence of a borderline obese egotist of middle years strutting around the pitch in a headset, a chip on each shoulder, holding up play because of his constant 2-way conversation with Stockley Park & making it all about him.

 

[Mutchy]

Calls to strip license-payer funds from the BBC have never been louder, probably because their claims of neutrality have never seemed flimsier. You seem to be describing a gold-tinted era that I'm not sure exists anymore. I will say it loudly and proudly, I am 100% against equality of outcome, the engineering of consent, or any other form of top-down institutional influence to those ends. We can argue the toss about predatory practices that help improve profit margins elsewhere, but without an organic collective will to consume a product, there is no profit – unless profit is of no concern like the BBC. If that fat cat minority’s will is for nothing else than to make money, in a darkly ironic way that may be the purest reflection of the people’s will there is.

For the second time on this thread - stick to football, and keep this other stuff to the politics etc forum.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Haven't got any figures to hand, but would be interested to compare the viewing figures of England women's games throughout the Euros and the Liverpool v Manchester City Community Shield, featuring England's two top teams, which was free to air on terrestrial TV on Saturday on ITV. There are also quite a number of FA Cup ties now on free to air terrestrial TV featuring Premier League and EFL teams, I wonder how they also compare.

Dont know about the community shield expect it was around 5 million at best
Usually these days the FA Cup final gets about 8-9 million audience
The top Prem audience is 4.1 million
Top FA CUP audience was 1970 Chelsea v Leeds 28 mil
Top ever was 1966 with national viewing figures of 32 mil
Ofc global audiences are much bigger for CL finals and World cup finals now

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I'm chuffed for the ladies and will always back English sportsmen/women in a final against Germany especially! I could only watch parts of the final, but what I saw was decent. It was a top-class finish by Toone for 1-0, but all three goals stemmed from poor defending (which is one of the outstanding issues about the women's game). Only a black-hearted ghoul wouldn't draw some enthusiasm from the effect this is having on girls throughout the nation.

I am not so enthused however about the "the women have done what the men can't" comments. It's been suggested we enjoy women's football in of itself and not make comparisons to the men's game. Rightly so, they're incomparable for a number of reasons; yet this provocative crap predictably creeps through - from those who are happy to dispense labels like "manlet" or "troll". There's more than a hint of projection in that.

More broadly, I am not comfortable with how the women's game, particularly recent international tournaments, has been astroturfed into the public conscience by media outlets like the BBC over far more organically successful competitions like the Championship. There are politically socialist / equality of outcome overtones in that which I cannot abide, from a media outlet mind that were complaining only a few days ago that there aren't enough black women in the team. Top-tier women's Football averaged 1000 spectators per game just last year, yet I'm supposed to believe there was a full house at Wembley for the final because of a meritocratic growth in popularity since? Sure. It's certainly a stark reminder of the power of the media to engineer interest and shape perception.

Mate, the FA banned womens football for 50 years because they didn’t think football was an appropriate game for women. Before it was banned, it was very popular. Since the ban was lifted, it was shunned and belittled by the football establishment for years. I think it’s damned fair that it’s been heavily pushed in recent years. It has a lot of catching up to do through no fault of its own.

As for the success of the lionesses last night. I’ve never been a major follower of the womens game, but stuff me, they deserved it in this tournament and it brought a tear to my eye when they lifted the trophy. That team celebrated in a genuine and passionate way which seems increasingly hard to find at the highest levels of the mens game. **** the Germans. **** those who put the womens game down. They showed the England mens team just how bloody pathetic they’ve been for 56 years.

 

[Hot Fuss]

So I watched the England games because the media told me to did i?

What a load of ****ing *******s.

 

[Streathamwolf]

Mate, the FA banned womens football for 50 years because they didn’t think football was an appropriate game for women. Before it was banned, it was very popular. Since the ban was lifted, it was shunned and belittled by the football establishment for years. I think it’s damned fair that it’s been heavily pushed in recent years. It has a lot of catching up to do through no fault of its own.

As for the success of the lionesses last night. I’ve never been a major follower of the womens game, but stuff me, they deserved it in this tournament and it brought a tear to my eye when they lifted the trophy. That team celebrated in a genuine and passionate way which seems increasingly hard to find at the highest levels of the mens game. **** the Germans. **** those who put the womens game down. They showed the England mens team just how bloody pathetic they’ve been for 56 years.

My grandmother played for Scotland before the FA banned the women's game in 1921. That ban is the reason it has taken so long for us to catch up with the global game and the reason it has been such a difficult journey for female footballers in the UK.

It was an appalling decision then and, as you say, the continued belittling and put downs continued. Even now women's teams have to fight for funding and access to grounds. They deserve every bit of promoting, air time and support they are now getting.