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Can anyone explain clearly where we are heading ?

NewarkWolf

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1. As it stands Moutinho is no longer a Wolves player after Thursday

2. They scored a combined amount of 14 goals last season. Hardly prolific.

3. Sounds like another exciting season

4. True...Current system also is making us look dull as...

6.-9 This year's kit is great...and Molineux really isn't our biggest issue the moment.

10. I'd say the recent E&S fan survey gives a pretty clear indication on that
It's hardly fair to say it's a mess is my point
 

VancouverWolf

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In a mess!!! Compared to the Bhatti era this is paradise. Today's fans have been spoilt and don't realise how close this club came to being no more.
Hear hear!
6 years with Fosun ……..

promotion…….( never, ever thought that would happen again)
Finish 7th. twice
Semi FA cup
Quarter Europa
Played some horrible football in season 3 and yet finished 13th.
And season 4….finished 10th.

No shambles, not in dire situation, …steady and stable……...just a good top 10 club.
 

wwbug

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In a mess!!! Compared to the Bhatti era this is paradise. Today's fans have been spoilt and don't realise how close this club came to being no more.
You are so right this is nothing compared to the Bhatti era.
Although was far more than a mess.
But we are in a mess if we dont start signing players soon.
 

wwbug

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In a mess!!! Compared to the Bhatti era this is paradise. Today's fans have been spoilt and don't realise how close this club came to being no more.
You try and tell that to the young people of today , and would they believe you ? No......
 

Queensland Wolf

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Hear hear!
6 years with Fosun ……..

promotion…….( never, ever thought that would happen again)
Finish 7th. twice
Semi FA cup
Quarter Europa
Played some horrible football in season 3 and yet finished 13th.
And season 4….finished 10th.

No shambles, not in dire situation, …steady and stable……...just a good top 10 club.
Talk about life through gold tinted glasses
 

CelebrityWolf

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We have regressed for two seasons from where we were. That is a fact. You may be positive about that but many won't be and nor should they.

Oh and three wins from our last fourteen. Take that into the new season and we will be looking for a new manager as well.
 

VancouverWolf

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We have regressed for two seasons from where we were. That is a fact. You may be positive about that but many won't be and nor should they.

Oh and three wins from our last fourteen. Take that into the new season and we will be looking for a new manager as well.
Last two seasons were horrible…..many times embarrassing and stupid.

Obviously Jeff still has faith in Bruno, ( I have serious doubts). I just hope we’re in good form and position by Xmas.
 

CelebrityWolf

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Last two seasons were horrible…..many times embarrassing and stupid.

Obviously Jeff still has faith in Bruno, ( I have serious doubts). I just hope we’re in good form and position by Xmas.

I honestly think Bruno will be gone by November if we don't back him. This team as it stands is on its last legs, that is obvious to anyone. Seriously, given who has already left we are looking at needing four good quality replacements and I will be amazed if that happens, more likely two and a few kids when things are desperate. IF that is the case, bottom half is a guarantee.
 

Bacon Sandwich

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Where are we heading? Very clearly to Blackburn, Hull and Millwall if we don't replace Shi and Sellars.

For people who trot out this 7th, 7th, 13th, 10th *******s & think everything is OK, look at the objective stats on last season's performances. We were saved from a relegation scrap by Jose Sa having an exceptional season: that is a simple fact. To compound matters, we have further weakened an already paper-thin squad.

What was the stat someone mentioned the other day? Wolves have 15 players who've played 10 PL games or more?

It's always true in football that incompetence off the field - whether is is Man United or Oldham Athletic - is sooner or later reflected on the field. Jeff Shi welcomes you to the KC Stadium, ladies and gentlemen...
 

SmiffyWolf

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It is chalk and cheese though now from when Fosun took us over . I appreciate we are not in financial ruin and the stadium falling to bits ( well that's another debate) . But fosun gave us hope to start with and a dream to follow. Really people thinking we can go further without investment or better the brand unless it's E sports then I am not sure .

I do think it is something to do with Chinese funding not happening abroad from articles I have read . But if this is the case then the project has stopped which means progressing will be little if none existent. And once you stop pushing forward you end up going backwards .
 

Scallywolf

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We were in the bottom 4 over the last 15 games last season. Doesn’t that tell us something going into a new season?

The paper thin squad has been weakened with the departure of Ruddy, Marcal and Saiss with Hoever going out on loan as well.

The current squad just has to be improved and increased after those departures. With 5 substitutes being used from next season we are going to be struggling as it stands.

Bruno has already said he wants 2 quality players in every position. That’s 22 quality players if my maths are correct. How many have we got now?

As things currently stand and following on from the last 15 matches of last season I am worried. Nothing positive coming out of the club whatsoever atm, which I hope improves from Friday ( hopefully news on a new contract for Mouts, MGW getting a new contract, Traore and Trincao futures sorted, new arrivals imminent etc etc).

We are heading to be in the lower half of the Premier League as it stands. Thankfully, just like us Southampton, Brighton, Palace, Fulham, Bournemouth, Everton and Leicester haven’t spent any money yet either so we are not alone.

You should never stand still in the Premier League imo. We currently appear paralysed!
 
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kentish wolf

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Probably already mentioned but...Fosun.targets imho........
1 avoid relegation
2 mid table finish
3 finish 7th/8th.

None of us want Wolves to struggle but I do wonder where we are going.
I have supported Wolves since the 1950s and like a lot of us old codgers I have seen excellent,good ,average,poor and blooming awful season's
as for the immediate future, survival seems to Fosuns target , an also ran imo.
 

wwbug

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Probably already mentioned but...Fosun.targets imho........
1 avoid relegation
2 mid table finish
3 finish 7th/8th.

None of us want Wolves to struggle but I do wonder where we are going.
I have supported Wolves since the 1950s and like a lot of us old codgers I have seen excellent,good ,average,poor and blooming awful season's
as for the immediate future, survival seems to Fosuns target , an also ran imo.
That sounds very Steve Morgan .
 
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I fear the last few seasons have lulled Fosun into a false sense of security, finished 7th without too much hassle twice and then even with poor seasons were never really in any danger. But we all know that can easily change, and if we didn't sign anyone/sign appropriately this summer then no doubt we'd be in a relegation battle.
 

The Wolf In The North

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I still don't think there's much fundamentally wrong that 2-3 new players in key positions couldn't immediately fix. We're nowhere near as bad as it sometimes feels we are. And I'd much rather get those 2-3 players right, instead of panic buy and spend another year feeling unbalanced.

I'd be lying if I said I had complete faith, though, because there's always a knife-to-a-gunfight feel about our conservatism, and that really won't wash this summer if nothing pans out.
 

JOSWolf

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So as long as the Bhattis exist in our history any ****ing **** show and incompetence is acceptable. Got it.

Ooh we had it worse in the 80’s and you lot nowadays don’t know you’re born. What patronising ****ing horse ****.

Well said mate.
 

SteveBullsKnee

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We can’t ignore how the season ended, that’s obvious but surely we can’t ignore the first part either as it was literally the same players and staff.

The doom mongers will always point out the latter and say relegation looms and ignore the former. Similarly I see that Sa was lucky last year and he can’t be expected to do the same next season, why not?

The underlying fact is we finished 10th last year and the window is open for an age yet so anything else is purely conjecture right now. Do people genuinely think we’ll lose Neves and Moutinho, then not replace them? Is Marcal really a loss? I liked Saiss but the same people shouting for reinforcements were saying he was a converted midfielder and rubbish anyway.
 

Dan G WWFC

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We're just the same as every other team outside the big 6. Just slightly better run than most.
The dreaming of 2 years ago has gone.

Are we better run or did Mendes sort us our for a Couple of years.
 

SmiffyWolf

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Interested to see if with the current players we have do we think we could go 4 at the back or no way ?

As I am pretty sure the 23s played a 4 but never understand that when the first team didn't . Yes I know a different standard but surely we want the players to be use to a system and a position rather than coming in and playing a deep lying role or and advanced one .
 

SteveBullsKnee

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Interested to see if with the current players we have do we think we could go 4 at the back or no way ?

As I am pretty sure the 23s played a 4 but never understand that when the first team didn't . Yes I know a different standard but surely we want the players to be use to a system and a position rather than coming in and playing a deep lying role or and advanced one .
23s pretty much play 3 at the back. Only alters on occasion with players available
 

Shergar

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Well it’s time to take a serious look at our U23’s. Everything else is not happening. The financial and political predicament of Fosun is the driver.
 

wwbug

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Last two seasons were horrible…..many times embarrassing and stupid.

Obviously Jeff still has faith in Bruno, ( I have serious doubts). I just hope we’re in good form and position by Xmas.
Not obviously as he hasn’t backed him by one penny. It’s just may be no better manager would have faith in WWFC
 

Eastyorksyeltz

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Interested to see if with the current players we have do we think we could go 4 at the back or no way ?

As I am pretty sure the 23s played a 4 but never understand that when the first team didn't . Yes I know a different standard but surely we want the players to be use to a system and a position rather than coming in and playing a deep lying role or and advanced one .
U23's played 3 at the back, with 2 advanced wing-backs from the games I saw. Towards the end of the season they really showed how that system can be attacking and produce chances / goals. They played the ball out from the back quickly and the midfield was far more fluid than the 1st team. Found space out wide and in the box against teams who packed the defence. To be fair, they rarely played against sides who pressed high up the pitch and the central defence did sometimes get caught on the counter. Conceded some easy goals in games they otherwise dominated.
 
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Fenrir_

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Long story short, I think we're fine, but we've moved from the exciting, fast, throw money at everything now approach and gone to a longer game

I think it's the landscape moving slightly, and Fosun realising that the attitude of their first two seasons isn't sustainable in the PL. There may also be the issue of Chinese politics preventing them funding us directly

When they came in the gamble was simple, spend big, get promoted, and the club gets the millions from TV money. They spent again to get us a side with enough quality to push for 'best of the rest', but have realised pretty quickly that the level of investment into the squad that's required to go further is way beyond what the club can sustain and decided it's too much of a gamble. You might get a season or two where you have some relative success but that isn't going to recoup the transfer fees and wages you have to pay to be able to challenge and then you're sat like an Everton, effectively having maxed out all your credit cards and are wondering how you can pay them off. Villa and Newcastle will experience the same in the next few years, because as things stand the clubs aren't bringing in enough money to support the regular outlay required

For us to kick on and be genuine major players, the whole infrastructure of the club has to be bigger and better and that will cost a fortune. That may be money Fosun aren't 'allowed' to put in (but maybe can under their Fosun Sports Group umbrella), and we know they've been looking for outside investment which would help them out in this regard, whether that money went into building a new stand or buying a player or two to stabilise our league status or whatever

Long term I've no doubt Fosun want Wolves to be winning things, because it looks bloody good for them if they have a successful side in the world's premier footballing competitions, and I do think looking at them as owners, we're in very good hands and they will help us grow as a club so I think that as a club on the whole, we're as far away from being a mess as we could be

The footballing side slightly different but for now I think they're happy to be kicking around in mid-table, keeping everything within our means and letting other clubs hang themselves as they chase a moment in the sun. We all know certain areas need addressing this summer, but we don't need to spend big to address those and if we do then we'll no doubt have a squad again that's top half in terms of quality and if you have that, you shouldn't really be anywhere near the drop zone come the end of the season. You'll get the occasional cup run and/or push for Europe, but a low net spend on transfers with plenty of our top players leaving (over time, not a mass exodus!) so we can reinvest

I just think they've gone from the initial 5-10 year noisy approach and realised that without throwing something like a billion pounds at it, it'll take longer than that as they build the club up
 

Contrarian

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In a mess!!! Compared to the Bhatti era this is paradise. Today's fans have been spoilt and don't realise how close this club came to being no more.

What happened just *before* the Bhatti era, though? ;) As I recall, it was ambitions, promises, best league finishes for a while ,a club record signing, Europe and even a trophy. Didn't get built on, though did it? Ring any bells?
 
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I still have this feeling, that I posted in February, that no Premiership club would handover a major rebuild to the likes of Shi and Sellars.
They just dont know enough about world football.
At least they know the name of the league we're in :p

Just kidding mate...never ceases to amaze me how many folk still call it that.
 

SoCal_Wolf

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I'll leave this table here so that we can have some context. It's sorted by the annual wage bill - Wolves are 13th at 52.25 million, comparable with Aston Villa and Southampton. Top Six in league position are all in the top seven in the annual wage bill, with the exception of Everton. I've also added the spending per point earned, which gives you some insight to "value." Looking at this metric, you could say that Brentford massively overachieved compared to what they spent, while ManU and Everton were among the worst. Wolves are clearly overachieving, with the fourth best wage bill per point earned.

Other interesting tidbits - Crystal Palace, Leicester, and West Ham have much, much higher wage bills than Wolves (20k and above). I would expect Newcastle to start shooting up the annual wage bill - last season, they were 13mil higher in annual wages than Wolves.

This is why we need more revenue streams for recurring annual costs - not one-time injections of funds.

Club
Annual
Wage Bill
Points
Spend/Point
Rank - Annual
Wage Bill
Rank - Spend/ Point
League Position
Manchester United
£ 214,210,000​
58​
£ 3,693,276​
1​
20​
6​
Chelsea
£ 173,640,000​
74​
£ 2,346,486​
2​
19​
3​
Manchester City
£ 149,192,000​
93​
£ 1,604,215​
3​
16​
1​
Liverpool
£ 139,752,000​
92​
£ 1,519,043​
4​
14​
2​
Arsenal
£ 87,310,000​
69​
£ 1,265,362​
5​
7​
5​
Everton
£ 86,510,000​
39​
£ 2,218,205​
6​
18​
16​
Tottenham
£ 75,536,000​
71​
£ 1,063,887​
7​
6​
4​
Crystal Palace
£ 72,950,000​
48​
£ 1,519,792​
8​
15​
12​
Leicester
£ 72,810,000​
52​
£ 1,400,192​
9​
13​
8​
West Ham
£ 71,956,000​
56​
£ 1,284,929​
10​
8​
7​
Newcastle
£ 65,850,000​
49​
£ 1,343,878​
11​
11​
11​
Aston Villa
£ 59,970,000​
45​
£ 1,332,667​
12​
10​
14​
Wolves
£ 52,250,000​
51​
£ 1,024,510​
13​
4​
10​
Southampton
£ 52,140,000​
40​
£ 1,303,500​
14​
9​
5​
Brighton
£ 40,280,000​
51​
£ 789,804​
15​
3​
9​
Watford
£ 38,750,000​
23​
£ 1,684,783​
16​
17​
19​
Burnley
£ 36,920,000​
35​
£ 1,054,857​
17​
5​
18​
Norwich
£ 29,600,000​
22​
£ 1,345,455​
18​
12​
20​
Leeds United
£ 23,810,000​
38​
£ 626,579​
19​
2​
17​
Brentford
£ 18,320,000​
46​
£ 398,261​
20​
1​
13​
 

wwbug

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I'll leave this table here so that we can have some context. It's sorted by the annual wage bill - Wolves are 13th at 52.25 million, comparable with Aston Villa and Southampton. Top Six in league position are all in the top seven in the annual wage bill, with the exception of Everton. I've also added the spending per point earned, which gives you some insight to "value." Looking at this metric, you could say that Brentford massively overachieved compared to what they spent, while ManU and Everton were among the worst. Wolves are clearly overachieving, with the fourth best wage bill per point earned.

Other interesting tidbits - Crystal Palace, Leicester, and West Ham have much, much higher wage bills than Wolves (20k and above). I would expect Newcastle to start shooting up the annual wage bill - last season, they were 13mil higher in annual wages than Wolves.

This is why we need more revenue streams for recurring annual costs - not one-time injections of funds.

Club
Annual
Wage Bill
Points
Spend/Point
Rank - Annual
Wage Bill
Rank - Spend/ Point
League Position
Manchester United
£ 214,210,000​
58​
£ 3,693,276​
1​
20​
6​
Chelsea
£ 173,640,000​
74​
£ 2,346,486​
2​
19​
3​
Manchester City
£ 149,192,000​
93​
£ 1,604,215​
3​
16​
1​
Liverpool
£ 139,752,000​
92​
£ 1,519,043​
4​
14​
2​
Arsenal
£ 87,310,000​
69​
£ 1,265,362​
5​
7​
5​
Everton
£ 86,510,000​
39​
£ 2,218,205​
6​
18​
16​
Tottenham
£ 75,536,000​
71​
£ 1,063,887​
7​
6​
4​
Crystal Palace
£ 72,950,000​
48​
£ 1,519,792​
8​
15​
12​
Leicester
£ 72,810,000​
52​
£ 1,400,192​
9​
13​
8​
West Ham
£ 71,956,000​
56​
£ 1,284,929​
10​
8​
7​
Newcastle
£ 65,850,000​
49​
£ 1,343,878​
11​
11​
11​
Aston Villa
£ 59,970,000​
45​
£ 1,332,667​
12​
10​
14​
Wolves
£ 52,250,000​
51​
£ 1,024,510​
13​
4​
10​
Southampton
£ 52,140,000​
40​
£ 1,303,500​
14​
9​
5​
Brighton
£ 40,280,000​
51​
£ 789,804​
15​
3​
9​
Watford
£ 38,750,000​
23​
£ 1,684,783​
16​
17​
19​
Burnley
£ 36,920,000​
35​
£ 1,054,857​
17​
5​
18​
Norwich
£ 29,600,000​
22​
£ 1,345,455​
18​
12​
20​
Leeds United
£ 23,810,000​
38​
£ 626,579​
19​
2​
17​
Brentford
£ 18,320,000​
46​
£ 398,261​
20​
1​
13​
Excellent . Just a note Leicester West Ham and Palace are spending £20 million more on wages . Your note states £20k .
 

Fenrir_

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I'll leave this table here so that we can have some context. It's sorted by the annual wage bill - Wolves are 13th at 52.25 million, comparable with Aston Villa and Southampton. Top Six in league position are all in the top seven in the annual wage bill, with the exception of Everton. I've also added the spending per point earned, which gives you some insight to "value." Looking at this metric, you could say that Brentford massively overachieved compared to what they spent, while ManU and Everton were among the worst. Wolves are clearly overachieving, with the fourth best wage bill per point earned.

Other interesting tidbits - Crystal Palace, Leicester, and West Ham have much, much higher wage bills than Wolves (20k and above). I would expect Newcastle to start shooting up the annual wage bill - last season, they were 13mil higher in annual wages than Wolves.

This is why we need more revenue streams for recurring annual costs - not one-time injections of funds.

Club
Annual
Wage Bill
Points
Spend/Point
Rank - Annual
Wage Bill
Rank - Spend/ Point
League Position
Manchester United
£ 214,210,000​
58​
£ 3,693,276​
1​
20​
6​
Chelsea
£ 173,640,000​
74​
£ 2,346,486​
2​
19​
3​
Manchester City
£ 149,192,000​
93​
£ 1,604,215​
3​
16​
1​
Liverpool
£ 139,752,000​
92​
£ 1,519,043​
4​
14​
2​
Arsenal
£ 87,310,000​
69​
£ 1,265,362​
5​
7​
5​
Everton
£ 86,510,000​
39​
£ 2,218,205​
6​
18​
16​
Tottenham
£ 75,536,000​
71​
£ 1,063,887​
7​
6​
4​
Crystal Palace
£ 72,950,000​
48​
£ 1,519,792​
8​
15​
12​
Leicester
£ 72,810,000​
52​
£ 1,400,192​
9​
13​
8​
West Ham
£ 71,956,000​
56​
£ 1,284,929​
10​
8​
7​
Newcastle
£ 65,850,000​
49​
£ 1,343,878​
11​
11​
11​
Aston Villa
£ 59,970,000​
45​
£ 1,332,667​
12​
10​
14​
Wolves
£ 52,250,000​
51​
£ 1,024,510​
13​
4​
10​
Southampton
£ 52,140,000​
40​
£ 1,303,500​
14​
9​
5​
Brighton
£ 40,280,000​
51​
£ 789,804​
15​
3​
9​
Watford
£ 38,750,000​
23​
£ 1,684,783​
16​
17​
19​
Burnley
£ 36,920,000​
35​
£ 1,054,857​
17​
5​
18​
Norwich
£ 29,600,000​
22​
£ 1,345,455​
18​
12​
20​
Leeds United
£ 23,810,000​
38​
£ 626,579​
19​
2​
17​
Brentford
£ 18,320,000​
46​
£ 398,261​
20​
1​
13​
Unfortunately it's inaccurate. Wolves' wage bill was way in excess of £52m, and Man City were reported in The Times about a year ago as having an annual wage bill of... £351m!

Wolves' last accounts with a wage bill approaching £140m...




Screenshot_20220630-114945_OneDrive.jpg
Article on Man City (that isn't behind a paywall)


And the same breakdown of Wolves



Seems like that table was cobbled together by someone taking figures off Spotrac, a site which says we're paying Fabio Silva five times what we pay Conor Coady, Raúl is on the same wage as Ki Jana Hoever, and Gibbs-White and Ait-Nouri are on roughly £6k a week... between them. Some of Spotrac's figures are no doubt in the right ball park, but there are too many that are quite clearly wrong (and wildly wrong in quite a few cases) for it to be reliable

I'm not completely debunking your post though! I'm sure if you went through the official financial reports of all the clubs then you'd come to a similar conclusion to what you have done, just that those figures are inaccurate
 
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