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Can anyone explain clearly where we are heading ?

Wednesbury Wolf

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And yet incredibly, they are still our most successful owners in half a lifetime (by a country mile).

Just imagine where we’d be if we had decent owners!
They had the potential to be decent owners but that quickly evaporated once they'd decided that everything other than the actual football side was the priority.
 

Wednesbury Wolf

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We are going to be mid table for the foreseeable. That in itself is fine if you ignore all the big talk when fosun took over. Question is which way will we fall eventually, will fosun find inspiration again and invest or will they just pull the plug and get out. Personally i suspect the latter is most likely two or three years from now.
Your optimism is remarkable if you can guarantee mid table unless you're thinking of the Championship.
 

VancouverWolf

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I think Fosun have ambitions all right but they may not align exactly with ours.
The good news is that they want Wolves to do better because it helps the brand. European football is where they can really get more exposure.

The fans’ problem is that we don’t know why they bought Wolves or their agenda or their timeline.
We don’t know what their yardstick is to measure success.
 

TF2Wolf

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The good news is that they want Wolves to do better because it helps the brand. European football is where they can really get more exposure.

I hope you are right.

Why then though when there was a real chance to get into one of the European spots did they not only not strengthen the team but weaken it by reducing the squad with Traore leaving on loan.
 

Darvo

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They had the potential to be decent owners but that quickly evaporated once they'd decided that everything other than the actual football side was the priority.
Fosun have been and are, in my opinion, well above decent owners.

We’ve been through some truly tough times in the past but I find it hard to look upon the Fosun years as anything other than positive.

For example, I’d just about given up on Wolves ever being able to get the upper hand over Villa in my supporting lifetime. Recently, we’ve given them some right spankings. Not only that, but we've had some noticeable victories over all of the big boys.

Are things perfect ... of course not but your constant negativity toward them is something I really struggle to comprehend.

Hey-ho though, each to their own.
 

SoCal_Wolf

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I think that the goal of the club at the mid-way point is to maintain its position in the top half of the Premier League and sporadically challenge for the European spots. At the same time, the club is increasing revenues outside of football in order to have the resources to consistently end up in the top six - this would be the longer term goal.

For recruiting, we will tell players that we will be shooting for Europe and that with their contributions, it will be more likely. At the same time, they will be playing on the biggest stage in the world, competing against the best players. This will help them play for their national teams and move up to some of the biggest clubs in the world (e.g., Liverpool). Wolves would probably also play up the supportive environment, camaraderie, and "One Pack" mentality.
 

wwbug

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Sadly, yes. And there are others you can add - Jordao, Otasowie, Hoever. But Fosun don't need every player to be a success, just a few here and there. Jota, Ait-Nouri, Kilman. I'm not saying it benefits Wolves, just that this is the level and category of player they're targeting.

My personal opinion, for what it's worth, is that it's flawed and will end in tears. I think Fosun loved the idea of owning a PL club, but the actuality is far different from the reality, as many have found out before them. I don't think they're underhand in any way, I don't even think they're cheap or staunchly unambitious, I just think they don't have the heart for it. They'll trade and invest in younger, not-quite-there-yet-if-they'll-ever-be players, exactly like Cutrone and Silva, and they'll occasionally cash in on a good one, until they reach a point where the average players outweigh the Kilmans and Ait-Nouris, and at that point we'll be cut adrift.
Yes , agreed and we cant lose players like Saiss, Patricio , Marcal , or even Moutinho and Neves .
The confection then will have a soft centre and collapse . That is the truly worrying bit.
 

wwbug

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We think you are a great football player, we are a feeder club to bigger and better things in your career. Join us and you will get a better wage and training facilities than you have now plus you will have the best advertisement of your skills in the shape of the premier league the most watched football league in the world.

We are just a stepping stone, you will have to play in a run down stadium called molineux most weeks but the pitch is great, plus You will get to meet all the big stars when you play the top six. Also as a bonus if you do really well you will get an avatar on fortnight, sign here please.

;)
But is that Leeds, Brighton, Southampton ,Nottingham Forrest , Palace , West Ham or Leicester saying that ?
 

wwbug

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I think Fosun have ambitions all right but they may not align exactly with ours.
The good news is that they want Wolves to do better because it helps the brand. European football is where they can really get more exposure.

The fans’ problem is that we don’t know why they bought Wolves or their agenda or their timeline.
We don’t know what their yardstick is to measure success.
How do you articulate that to a new player thinking of joining us ?
 

wwbug

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Fosun have been and are, in my opinion, well above decent owners.

We’ve been through some truly tough times in the past but I find it hard to look upon the Fosun years as anything other than positive.

For example, I’d just about given up on Wolves ever being able to get the upper hand over Villa in my supporting lifetime. Recently, we’ve given them some right spankings. Not only that, but we've had some noticeable victories over all of the big boys.

Are things perfect ... of course not but your constant negativity toward them is something I really struggle to comprehend.

Hey-ho though, each to their own.
We have had the best five years for a generation.
But one of the worst 3 months for a generation.
 

cannockwolves

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Not like we shouldn't use the last few windows to influence our thoughts?

I don't want to pick on you mate, because as fans we all want them to have done more - and to do more going forward. But from a business point of view I don't think Jeff would accept those previous windows were the same or representative. We went through the pandemic and he would have been extremely careful with the finances, especially given their early experience in China. You can more or less exclude the January window because the value for money is poor. Then you have the change over from Nuno to Bruno, he would have known the state of their relationship way before we did. That may well have influenced some buying decisions.

So while I would love to experience a Chelsea or Newcastle type splurge from our very own billionaire or oil super power, I can understand why Jeff is more careful.

I do think it's 100% certain we will pick up a few players in the coming weeks. It may not be all over the press, they may be unknowns, but we will strengthen the team. Because I do think this window is different, it's a new cycle as they call it.
 

Timberwolf

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So I guess you can't answer the question asked by the starter of the thread either ?

There's a major difference between slagging of the club and asking a genuine question about the vision for the club.

I personally can't see where we're heading either at it fills me with apathy towards next season.
We all know what the issues are. Re-hashing the same arguments under the guise of new ‘questions’ is just annoying.
 

StourWolves

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The way I see it the club are happy for us to finish anywhere around mid table and above. Invest in younger players and sell for profit to generate money for the club but also hope that sooner or later the brand takes off via the esports/wolves records type of venture. Also think they’re hoping for a new investor who’s willing to work alongside Fosun and pump money into the club
 

oldgoldheart

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Does anyone here have the foggiest where we want to be as a club and how we are going to get there ?
Under previous owners it was clearly survival - 17th or better was the target.
Under Nuno it appeared to be European competition. But now I wouldnt know how to explain our target probably a weak - " The best we can do "
If I was a player wanting to join WWFC that is the first thing I would want to hear.
I have listened to Ask Wolves - honest .
So how would you explain our position in a POSITIVE way to a wanabee Wolves player that is thinking of signing a contract with WWFC ?
Jeff doesnt care about football. Its about revenue, brand and long term value. As long as we stay up he will be happy. He did not mention ambition, trophies, on pitch progress or anything optimistic. Football is incidental. A means to an end. Nothing more nothing less. All the other videos arent worth watching as the people have no power. Only jeff
 

meeee67

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Jeff negotiating with a player.... " Steve Bull stand needs a wash you can start with that,we need value for money... Player.... Do I need my own ladders.. Jeff...." No previous owner left a set" Player... Where do I sign? :) :)
 

Rhoswolf

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I don't want to pick on you mate, because as fans we all want them to have done more - and to do more going forward. But from a business point of view I don't think Jeff would accept those previous windows were the same or representative. We went through the pandemic and he would have been extremely careful with the finances, especially given their early experience in China. You can more or less exclude the January window because the value for money is poor. Then you have the change over from Nuno to Bruno, he would have known the state of their relationship way before we did. That may well have influenced some buying decisions.

So while I would love to experience a Chelsea or Newcastle type splurge from our very own billionaire or oil super power, I can understand why Jeff is more careful.

I do think it's 100% certain we will pick up a few players in the coming weeks. It may not be all over the press, they may be unknowns, but we will strengthen the team. Because I do think this window is different, it's a new cycle as they call it.
No problem, wish I could share your optimism, sadly I currently don't.
 

CodsallWolf

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I think that the goal of the club at the mid-way point is to maintain its position in the top half of the Premier League and sporadically challenge for the European spots. At the same time, the club is increasing revenues outside of football in order to have the resources to consistently end up in the top six - this would be the longer term goal.

For recruiting, we will tell players that we will be shooting for Europe and that with their contributions, it will be more likely. At the same time, they will be playing on the biggest stage in the world, competing against the best players. This will help them play for their national teams and move up to some of the biggest clubs in the world (e.g., Liverpool). Wolves would probably also play up the supportive environment, camaraderie, and "One Pack" mentality.
I think that is it exactly and is what Jeff was trying to say in the AskWolves interview - you have put it much more succinctly. The key for me is whether Jeff’s and the others’ judgment of what it takes to stand still is good enough. I personally don’t think it is - I have no confidence in them at all in that regard. And in the meantime, I just don’t find it very compelling as a fan supporting what is transparently a halfway house shop window for emerging Portuguese talent. I appreciate that Jeff recognises the disconnect with this approach and what fans aspire to - hence his ‘not on the same page’ comments regarding the legacy fans. But I really hate it. Fantastic if we see the the non-TV rights revenue stream grow rapidly and then see the material investment in the football side that propels us forward - I just don’t know enough about esports to assess that at all. I don’t think that knocking out a few LPs on Wolves Records is going to do it.
 
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SoCal_Wolf

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Jeff doesnt care about football. Its about revenue, brand and long term value. As long as we stay up he will be happy. He did not mention ambition, trophies, on pitch progress or anything optimistic. Football is incidental. A means to an end. Nothing more nothing less. All the other videos arent worth watching as the people have no power. Only jeff
As the president of Wolves, however, I think Jeff does care about football (and trophies and European football and club growth). Guo, on the other hand, probably doesn't care all that much about the football and cares more for branding and long-term value.

As far as Jeff having the only say and that the rest of the management team are simply "yes" people, that's not what the team say -- they have said that they have a lot of autonomy in their areas to achieve the goals of the club. Watch the videos again (for example, see Laura Nicholl, Rob Chakraverty, and even the much-maligned Vinny Clark). As the boss, of course Jeff has the final say, but he doesn't actually seem like a micromanager to me.
 

SoCal_Wolf

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I think that is it exactly and is what Jeff was trying to say in the AskWolves interview - you have put it much more succintly. The key for me is whether Jeff’s and the others’ judgment of what it takes to stand still is good enough. I personally don’t think it is - I have no confidence in them at all in that regard. And in the meantime, I just don’t find it very compelling as a fan supporting what is transparently a halfway house shop window for emerging Portuguese talent. I appreciate that Jeff recognises the disconnect with this approach and what fans aspire to - hence his ‘not on the same page’ comments regarding the legacy fans. But I really hate it. Fantastic if we see the the non-TV rights revenue stream grow rapidly and then see the material investment in the football side that propels us forward - I just don’t know enough about esports to assess that at all. I don’t think that knocking out a few LPs on Wolves Records is going to do it.
To me, the disconnect between some fans and the club right now is the timeline - it's going to take much longer to break through the top six barrier. We are too impatient for that - we want to see success as soon as possible. And I get that - I mean, it's much more fun to win and follow a club that is making waves in Europe. But, they have overseen the best growth of the club in many years, greatly improved the Academy, and ushered the club through an unprecedented global catastrophe relatively unscathed! So, you should have some confidence in their ability to run a business.

Now, the club is setting itself up for the next step: they are investing into other revenue streams that have a huge potential (eSports); they have converted the club's debt to equity; and they've brought on a minority-share partner from the U.S. Why are these things important? Because it makes the club attractive to other investors (or for a future IPO). This means more dollars. The more revenue generation, the more sponsors that will pay you more money and so on and so forth. Why focus on growing the brand beyond the lifeblood of the support in the "legacy fans" (by the way, he NEVER called them legacy fans)? I would argue it's not because the worldwide fans would buy more Wolves paraphernalia (although that will be true somewhat), it's because there are more eyeballs among younger demographics (i.e., people between the ages of 18 and 40) seeing ads for our sponsors! That's the big revenue stream...

This strategy by the club may or may not work. But, given the rules of the game, it really is our best shot. Even having a sugar daddy like Newcastle won't be enough to sustain a top six position. At some point, the money spigot will be turned off...

Anyway, I think that we have a lot going for us at the club and that we do have our attractive qualities. We're just down the pecking order a bit and in the pond we are fishing in for players - well, they're going to get snap up by the big boys first. Think of the type of players that we need to get to replace Neves or Moutinho or Jimenez...you're not shopping in the Championship, that's for sure.

I'm getting antsy for us to announce some new players - but, that's me being a kid before Christmas and I want to see the shiny new present now! But, I'm an adult and I can wait and see what happens...
 

Sussex Wolf

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Jeff doesnt care about football. Its about revenue, brand and long term value. As long as we stay up he will be happy. He did not mention ambition, trophies, on pitch progress or anything optimistic. Football is incidental. A means to an end. Nothing more nothing less. All the other videos arent worth watching as the people have no power. Only jeff

As the president of Wolves, however, I think Jeff does care about football (and trophies and European football and club growth). Guo, on the other hand, probably doesn't care all that much about the football and cares more for branding and long-term value.

As far as Jeff having the only say and that the rest of the management team are simply "yes" people, that's not what the team say -- they have said that they have a lot of autonomy in their areas to achieve the goals of the club. Watch the videos again (for example, see Laura Nicholl, Rob Chakraverty, and even the much-maligned Vinny Clark). As the boss, of course Jeff has the final say, but he doesn't actually seem like a micromanager to me.

I suspect the truth is a bit of both.

As a businessman, and representative of Fosun, then I think his primary interest is in the value of Wolves as a business and a brand. His videos support this to a large extent, and more so, the longer he’s been here.

However, he is at (virtually) every game, goes to some U23 games, watches players at Compton and moved his family over to Wolverhampton to be closer to the club. As such he’s more involved and interested than a lot of his counterparts. Probably explains why he didn’t replace Laurie. Moreover, as he admitted recently, Wolves the football club, are the largest and most important part of the Wolves brand and new Fosun Sports group.
 

Hot Fuss

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I think Fosun have ambitions all right but they may not align exactly with ours.
The good news is that they want Wolves to do better because it helps the brand. European football is where they can really get more exposure.

The fans’ problem is that we don’t know why they bought Wolves or their agenda or their timeline.
We don’t know what their yardstick is to measure success.
You say fans don’t know why Fosun bought Wolves. Nonsense. It was to make money.

Ultimately the yardstick for success in Fosuns eyes is how much money they make. They are an investment company, I get that. Having a premier league football team is great for the Sports Group that Jeffs heads up.

They want to use the brand, name, badge to push and promote esports around the world and to a lesser extent fashion, record labels etc.

You say they want European football. Do they? Is the cost of getting there consistently worth it to them? To do that means spending millions on players. I see little evidence over the last 2/3 years that’s part of the plan. The financial rewards of the Europa conference are minimal.

Jeff seems baffled that folk are annoyed at the dull football of the last 2+ years. I don’t blame him to be honest, he sees the progress of the esports and doesn’t get why people like me aren’t as excited as him. Why would he? He’d probably never even heard of Wolverhampton Wanderers 6 years ago.

At the end of the day they wanted a premier league club and got one. Is being midtable premier league better than the previous 40 years? Of course on paper it is. Do I as a bloke from Wolverhampton enjoy it now more than I did in the 90s? Not really. It’s been ****ing boring in the main, the premier league novelty has worn off, the costs have gone through the roof and the reality of the glass ceiling has long since kicked in.

I’m keeping quiet on the transfer window till it’s over, they may surprise me, but I doubt it. Would imagine they were banking on 60 mil for Neves coming in to cover any expenditure. I reckon the lack of interest in Rueben (****ing brilliant player) is a big concern to Jeff and his self sustainable model.

Anyway had a great night, loads of Guiness, and finishing off with a few Glenmorangie at home. Up the Wolves.
 

VancouverWolf

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You say fans don’t know why Fosun bought Wolves. Nonsense. It was to make money.

Ultimately the yardstick for success in Fosuns eyes is how much money they make. They are an investment company, I get that. Having a premier league football team is great for the Sports Group that Jeffs heads up.

They want to use the brand, name, badge to push and promote esports around the world and to a lesser extent fashion, record labels etc.

You say they want European football. Do they? Is the cost of getting there consistently worth it to them? To do that means spending millions on players. I see little evidence over the last 2/3 years that’s part of the plan. The financial rewards of the Europa conference are minimal.

Jeff seems baffled that folk are annoyed at the dull football of the last 2+ years. I don’t blame him to be honest, he sees the progress of the esports and doesn’t get why people like me aren’t as excited as him. Why would he? He’d probably never even heard of Wolverhampton Wanderers 6 years ago.

At the end of the day they wanted a premier league club and got one. Is being midtable premier league better than the previous 40 years? Of course on paper it is. Do I as a bloke from Wolverhampton enjoy it now more than I did in the 90s? Not really. It’s been ****ing boring in the main, the premier league novelty has worn off, the costs have gone through the roof and the reality of the glass ceiling has long since kicked in.

I’m keeping quiet on the transfer window till it’s over, they may surprise me, but I doubt it. Would imagine they were banking on 60 mil for Neves coming in to cover any expenditure. I reckon the lack of interest in Rueben (****ing brilliant player) is a big concern to Jeff and his self sustainable model.

Anyway had a great night, loads of Guiness, and finishing off with a few Glenmorangie at home. Up the Wolves.
Good reply and I like you’re idea of the Guinness. More better. :)

As for why Fosun bought Wolves……
One reason may have been to make money but it might have only been part of the reason….maybe not the main one. Afterall, Fosun knew far easier ways to make a faster, less complicated return on their money than buying Wolves just for money.

Its very possible that Chinese domestic politics had some part of it. Guo’s arrest may have been a catalyst along with Jinping’s love of football and his wanting a great national side as well as winning the World Cup by 2050.
What better way to curry favour with the boss and maybe avoid another arrest than own a PL club?

And another reason is possibly prestige.

Esports, fashion and music may not have even crossed their minds back in 2016.
 

VancouverWolf

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To me, the disconnect between some fans and the club right now is the timeline - it's going to take much longer to break through the top six barrier. We are too impatient for that - we want to see success as soon as possible. And I get that - I mean, it's much more fun to win and follow a club that is making waves in Europe. But, they have overseen the best growth of the club in many years, greatly improved the Academy, and ushered the club through an unprecedented global catastrophe relatively unscathed! So, you should have some confidence in their ability to run a business.

Now, the club is setting itself up for the next step: they are investing into other revenue streams that have a huge potential (eSports); they have converted the club's debt to equity; and they've brought on a minority-share partner from the U.S. Why are these things important? Because it makes the club attractive to other investors (or for a future IPO). This means more dollars. The more revenue generation, the more sponsors that will pay you more money and so on and so forth. Why focus on growing the brand beyond the lifeblood of the support in the "legacy fans" (by the way, he NEVER called them legacy fans)? I would argue it's not because the worldwide fans would buy more Wolves paraphernalia (although that will be true somewhat), it's because there are more eyeballs among younger demographics (i.e., people between the ages of 18 and 40) seeing ads for our sponsors! That's the big revenue stream...

This strategy by the club may or may not work. But, given the rules of the game, it really is our best shot. Even having a sugar daddy like Newcastle won't be enough to sustain a top six position. At some point, the money spigot will be turned off...

Anyway, I think that we have a lot going for us at the club and that we do have our attractive qualities. We're just down the pecking order a bit and in the pond we are fishing in for players - well, they're going to get snap up by the big boys first. Think of the type of players that we need to get to replace Neves or Moutinho or Jimenez...you're not shopping in the Championship, that's for sure.

I'm getting antsy for us to announce some new players - but, that's me being a kid before Christmas and I want to see the shiny new present now! But, I'm an adult and I can wait and see what happens...
Great post……should be required reading by some. ;) ;)
 
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VancouverWolf

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How do you articulate that to a new player thinking of joining us ?
I can’t.
The question is impossible to answer with any degree of credibility for somebody outside the Wolves organization.
 

CelebrityWolf

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Honestly think anyone still thinking we are going to break into a top six needs to come back down to earth. The big six, despite a few of them having rocky spells are absolutely miles ahead of us and lets not forget what Newcastle are trying to do and how Leicester have already built a solid base. Also only a matter of time before another club is taken over by multibillionaires happy to throw money at it.
 

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I have read the thread and learned nothing…I am banning myself from posting for a month because of the negativity but also the uninformed posts by a bunch of female pudendas…may you all go forth and multiply …jeez
 

SmiffyWolf

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Think the main reason is that we are a way of moving players around Europe to make profit.if it works great but if not then we always run the risk of relegation.

Sad that most can see the first years the communication with the fans was great and Shi in the pub buying pints . That seems so distant now and really we are just treading water hoping something good happens.
 

Oh When the Wolves

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Without a sporting director with a sensible budget , and complete ownership of the budget we will go down the table until we go down.

It could be this seasOn, the season after, or in 3-4 years.

CB and CM have needed strengthening for 3 years and we have failed. We shop in a limited market due to owners relationship with mendes, and his inability to deal with football matters.

Neves and Neto are players that should be being sold for 70-80 million but clubs clearly don’t appreciate them because they can’t fully express themselves in the negative style of play we have.

Unless a risk is taken to sign a good cb, cm, and make us more exciting to watch - I struggle to see how we will progress - whilst other teams continually strengthen

On the flip side. If we do make a couple of astute signings, and can pull off. A big sale and replace them correctly we could continually challenge top 8.

It’s on a knife edge, and this window is massive.

We can’t afford to waste money on signings like Silva, Semedo, hwang. Whilst the first two are good players - we have to make more astute signings with our limited budget to progress. I don’t see this happening whilst shi is responsible for football transfers
 

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I'd settle for mid-table for the foreseeable with a good run here and there in any of the cups.
Slightly up from there have been Everton but last season gave them an awful fright, which shows the dangers
of being content as a stick in the mud. Even so, I'd settle for what they've had for quite a long time.
 

Bacon Sandwich

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One simple question.

The Fosun fan-boys say "The club is investing in other revenue streams so they can put more money into the football club." Where is the evidence that money from other revenue streams will go into Wolverhampton Wanderers FC - and not into yet more 'revenue streams?'

There isn't any
 

VancouverWolf

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One simple question.

The Fosun fan-boys say "The club is investing in other revenue streams so they can put more money into the football club." Where is the evidence that money from other revenue streams will go into Wolverhampton Wanderers FC - and not into yet more 'revenue streams?'

There isn't any
It could be spent on anything they want but that’s always been the case.

What I’d like to see is what kind of money would that be in, say……two years. Anybody got any idea of possible returns from esports, music and fashion?
 

wolfgar

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Speaking purely in football terms, If we don’t add some real quality at CM and CB in the coming weeks, I’m not really sure we’ll going much of anywhere next season. There is plenty of talent in our squad, but it clearly has its limitations and must be bolstered. I think they will, but I’d be lying if I said I had total confidence in the club to pull off anything that will blow anyone away?

If this ends up being another poor window, then at best we likely stagnate. At worst e.g. any continuation of the dismal form we showed in the last 3 months of last season, and we might well find ourselves in a spot of bother and lots of people getting very ****y.

I imagine this window will tell us quite a bit about fosuns intentions moving forward? Are they happy for us to tread water, or are the committed to seeing us move forward where it really counts?
 
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Don Corleone

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"Playing time at a financially stable Premier League club, with exposure leading to a lucrative move to a bigger club if you perform well."

May not be the trumpet call we want as fans, but it will appeal to a certain bracket of young players, especially foreign players looking for a stepping stone move for a couple of years.

For Fosun, so long as we remain a financially healthy PL club and they can continue to grow the brand image, that's enough.

It's not romantic or aspirational, it just is what it is.
I can’t disagree with any of this tbh.
But we need to freshen up the squad and our recent transfer windows don’t inspire me we’ll get that right at all. Hoping I’m wrong of course.
UTW!
 
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