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Bruno Lage

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I'm veering over the line that Bruno needs to go, he has inherited a squad that many can see have gone stale, he wasn't backed, yes. But he still has enough quality in that squad to get a winning result against -56 goal difference Norwich at least once over the 3 games.

Its evidently clear the players haven't been playing for him for whatever reason, the performances have been dreadful to watch all season, no energy, no threat and we don't really have an identity in our play, seems to be 5 at the back, pass around slowly a bit and then once every 15 mins fire a cross into a box empty of Wolves players. They don't seem like they like him very much, even in interviews you can see he's devoid of any charisma.

His subs make little sense on the whole and he waits too long to do them, finishing with Hwang and Trincao up top against City was criminal when he could of been giving Silva some minutes. When the chips are down at the end of games, he throws on 5 attackers and just hopes for the best and if anything we look worse.

His persistence with Hwang is puzzling as well as everyone and their mums can see he has the footballing ability of a satsuma (who ever signed off on his transfer early needs marching through waterloo road being whipped), playing Donk and Jonny out of position etc etc..

Him and the players have bottled every big game we've had to drag ourselves kicking and screaming into a European spot and our form since Feb is honestly embarrassing, the big thing for me apart from the obvious, swinging it in favour of him going is trust...This summer SHOULD be a big rebuild project, and do we trust Bruno to spend the only money we might have to spend for another 3 seasons on his style of players for him to start the season as he has ended this one, do we trust him to turn it all around and stop the rot, he couldn't at Benfica, do we trust him to go away over the break and come back with players in mind for an all new attacking system...I don't think I do.

Seems like a good coach, not sure he's a good manager.
 

JOSWolf

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is it possible the small squad is the cause of the collapse...just knackered come feb/march...we fell away last season too ?

Then again why hasnt he been using the likes of Toti Gomes and Cundle more? Gomes looked good on Sunday. Where has he been the last couple of months whilst our defence has been falling apart?

Cundle plays a really good game at Spurs and then hardly seen again. Bruno says he trusts him as a member of the first team and didnt sign a midfield player as a result in January as well. Another player I am convinced would have done well playing in a more advanced role in a midfield three.

He also hasnt used Fabio enough or Chiquinho. He has had options he has chosen to ignore for whatever reason and that could be to his cost.
 

Wolf in the sun

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Then again why hasnt he been using the likes of Toti Gomes and Cundle more? Gomes looked good on Sunday. Where has he been the last couple of months whilst our defence has been falling apart?

Cundle plays a really good game at Spurs and then hardly seen again. Bruno says he trusts him as a member of the first team and didnt sign a midfield player as a result in January as well. Another player I am convinced would have done well playing in a more advanced role in a midfield three.

He also hasnt used Fabio enough or Chiquinho. He has had options he has chosen to ignore for whatever reason and that could be to his cost.
yeah fair enough....just trying to decide(in my own head!) whether we should keep bruno or not
 

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is it possible the small squad is the cause of the collapse...just knackered come feb/march...we fell away last season too ?
This hasn't just been going on since Feb/March, this has been going on since September/October but as has been said by many people many times, good results masked the poor performances. It's only since the results dropped off that everyone is now seeing the poor performances more clearly
 

oldgoldheart

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This hasn't just been going on since Feb/March, this has been going on since September/October but as has been said by many people many times, good results masked the poor performances. It's only since the results dropped off that everyone is now seeing the poor performances more clearly
true. i remember the villa away game when we were 2-0 down. we were awful for 80 mins then a miracle happened.
 

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Mighty Thor

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true. i remember the villa away game when we were 2-0 down. we were awful for 80 mins then a miracle happened.
Agreed. That was a pure fluke. It was another game where he watched us being battered and creating nothing all game and would not change the system or make subs.

my position is this guy is here purely because he is Portuguese. If he was from the U.K. and called Brian he would never be the wolves manager. He is uninspiring, unqualified, inept and out of his depth.
 
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Supadavewolf

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Then again why hasnt he been using the likes of Toti Gomes and Cundle more? Gomes looked good on Sunday. Where has he been the last couple of months whilst our defence has been falling apart?

Cundle plays a really good game at Spurs and then hardly seen again. Bruno says he trusts him as a member of the first team and didnt sign a midfield player as a result in January as well. Another player I am convinced would have done well playing in a more advanced role in a midfield three.

He also hasnt used Fabio enough or Chiquinho. He has had options he has chosen to ignore for whatever reason and that could be to his cost.
For a Head Coach with a reputation for bringing on youngsters, he has a record of not selecting ours on a regular basis:

Toti - disappeared after playing well and ignored until Lage had no other choice;
RAN - his attacking instincts have often been ignored at the cost of Marcal's greater experience and defensive nous;
Cundle - very promising debut, then out of the side even when we were struggling for fit CMs;
Chiquinho - he has consistently shown attacking flair in the few minutes here and there, before the last few matches (where he has been very effective down the right);
Fabio - starting to show strength, movement off the ball and an ability to play others in, but left out regularly whilst those out of form (Hwang and - until recently - Raul) play ahead of him.

Disappointing IMO.
 

Fenrir_

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true. i remember the villa away game when we were 2-0 down. we were awful for 80 mins then a miracle happened.
We absolutely were and you can imagine how things would have been had that game not been turned around, people would have been after Lage's head. As it was it bought him time and curried some favour with a lot of people but he got bloody lucky that day. Villa weren't good but we were so abject in everything we did, then he did his usual trick when we're behind and threw on all his attacking players, we scored and Villa went to pieces

Was actually looking through the comms thread for that game the other day, he wasn't winning many friends I can tell you that!
 

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For a Head Coach with a reputation for bringing on youngsters, he has a record of not selecting ours on a regular basis:

Toti - disappeared after playing well and ignored until Lage had no other choice;
RAN - his attacking instincts have often been ignored at the cost of Marcal's greater experience and defensive nous;
Cundle - very promising debut, then out of the side even when we were struggling for fit CMs;
Chiquinho - he has consistently shown attacking flair in the few minutes here and there, before the last few matches (where he has been very effective down the right);
Fabio - starting to show strength, movement off the ball and an ability to play others in, but left out regularly whilst those out of form (Hwang and - until recently - Raul) play ahead of him.

Disappointing IMO.

Exactly what I think Supadave. His use of the younger players has been largely very poor in my opinion. Only seems to select them when he really has to, like he did with Toti on Sunday. I am really unimpressed.
 

KBWWFC

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Why is it unsustainable? He could just be that good a keeper. He was that good at Olympiakos as well by various accounts.

Sort of. I haven't checked the stats recently, but last time I checked the xg/shot saved was quite low. He's saving shots that more often than not would be expected of him.

Ie, we're conceding a large volume of "poor" chances.

It's really unsustainable because: high volume of shots being conceded, and the law of averages eventually equals out.

It's like when we went on that purple patch of scraping wins without creating any decent chance in the middle and relying on Moutinho / Neves to score goals - not sustainable over a long period of time.
 

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Then again why hasnt he been using the likes of Toti Gomes and Cundle more? Gomes looked good on Sunday. Where has he been the last couple of months whilst our defence has been falling apart?

Cundle plays a really good game at Spurs and then hardly seen again. Bruno says he trusts him as a member of the first team and didnt sign a midfield player as a result in January as well. Another player I am convinced would have done well playing in a more advanced role in a midfield three.

He also hasnt used Fabio enough or Chiquinho. He has had options he has chosen to ignore for whatever reason and that could be to his cost.

In fairness to him -though I do agree with you about not using Cundle, Gomes, or Chiquinho enough- he has addressed the Fabio thing in the press, citing the amount of times injuries have forced his hand when it comes to substitutions and saying he wanted to get Fabio on the pitch more. Should Fabio have started more? I believe so. We probably agree on that. But I can also understand the pull to keep giving starts to your number 9 who excelled at this level just 18 months ago.
 

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(Paper) rumours that Newcastle want Jose Mourinho ( Newcastle try to 'tempt' Jose Mourinho into leaving Roma despite Eddie Howe heroics ) as there next manager.
If that's the case i'd be on the blower to Eddie Howe's agent whilst his stock is high and grab Howe's jacket and sell him the challenge here, there's no doubt he's proven some people wrong already in the short time in Newcastle.
Newcastle's Board is still a bunch of idiots then, if that's their thinking, so nothing changes. Unfortunately, however, even if he got shown the door at Newcastle, Eddie Howe isn't Portuguese, so no chance he would get a job with us. He doesn't strike me as a 'yes man' either, which is another reason why there is no chance Shi would appoint him.
 

Fenrir_

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Sort of. I haven't checked the stats recently, but last time I checked the xg/shot saved was quite low. He's saving shots that more often than not would be expected of him.

Ie, we're conceding a large volume of "poor" chances.

It's really unsustainable because: high volume of shots being conceded, and the law of averages eventually equals out.

It's like when we went on that purple patch of scraping wins without creating any decent chance in the middle and relying on Moutinho / Neves to score goals - not sustainable over a long period of time.
Yeah we had that spell of something like nine goals in five games and you get people saying "oh, we've started to score the goals regularly now" but you looked at it and Neves had two, Moutinho had two, Coady had scored one or two. Now it's not so bad if your strikers are getting plenty of chances that they're missing, because they'll start sticking those chances away eventually and it'll balance out, but we were only creating these really low percentage chances, which means the blanks are always around the corner
 

SmokeyGB

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Newcastle's Board is still a bunch of idiots then, if that's their thinking, so nothing changes. Unfortunately, however, even if he got shown the door at Newcastle, Eddie Howe isn't Portuguese, so no chance he would get a job with us. He doesn't strike me as a 'yes man' either, which is another reason why there is no chance Shi would appoint him.
Then I can see ticket holders numbers falling IF we don't rebuild with the right players/manager(could be Bruno) and infrastructure all in place.
'Yes men' will only listen to the same people over and over it' the fans at the bottom that can see the carnage starting to unravel and the men at the top sat looking at the headlights or flame to a moth..
 

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Trouble is with Lage and one of the big reasons he has lost my support is I watch sides below us who have a game plan, have an identity and look like they will probably improve next season. With us I see the exact opposite.

Would you be happy if we had a game plan and identity, but we fell below those sides now below us?

I just think it's "be careful what you wish for..". Can guarantee, game plan and identity count for nothing when you lose a local derby, or when you are at the bottom of the table desperate for every point.

Also, we are all so focussed on one club and perhaps less aware of what fans of other clubs feel. The thing I keep getting from other fans is "what's wrong with your fans? You're comfortable top half , why so much complaining about manager and owners this season? Then they go on about how much worse their club is! I reply that it's the boring football, lack of goals. This is particularly amusing for my Leeds supporting friend who reckons Leeds fans have been moaning that they need to be more boring and grind out results.

If you listen to the typical football fan, all their clubs (with 6 obvious excpetions) are heading for relegation next season. Oh, and Villa another exception as they are going to be in the title challenge. (as we know ,Villa fans are not quite typical)
 

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Sort of. I haven't checked the stats recently, but last time I checked the xg/shot saved was quite low. He's saving shots that more often than not would be expected of him.

Ie, we're conceding a large volume of "poor" chances.

It's really unsustainable because: high volume of shots being conceded, and the law of averages eventually equals out.

It's like when we went on that purple patch of scraping wins without creating any decent chance in the middle and relying on Moutinho / Neves to score goals - not sustainable over a long period of time.
The thing that's getting me is that there's an argument to be made that Sa is playing a level above what could reasonably be expected of him which has contributed to positive results and it's assumed that this must end some time and is therefore unsustainable. That's fair enough.

Surely, by extension, there's an argument to be made that certain players are playing a level below what could reasonably be expected of them which has contributed to the negative results and performances and we can assume that this will end some time and is therefore unsustainable?

It's too simplistic to say that we are where we are because of one perceived positive factor (i.e. good luck), then blame all the bad stuff on the percieved performance of one individual who, although he may ultimately be accountable for the team's performance long term, can't be solely responsible for any particular set of negative results if he's not responsible for the positive ones.
 

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Yeah we had that spell of something like nine goals in five games and you get people saying "oh, we've started to score the goals regularly now" but you looked at it and Neves had two, Moutinho had two, Coady had scored one or two. Now it's not so bad if your strikers are getting plenty of chances that they're missing, because they'll start sticking those chances away eventually and it'll balance out, but we were only creating these really low percentage chances, which means the blanks are always around the corner

A couple of own goals in there, too. :D The only goal scored by one of our forwards, in over 2 months and 9 matches, is the one Trincao scored at Chelsea.

I don't think it has to "either one or the other is the problem" with midfield and attack. It's both of them. We always had a strong defensive midfield, but lacking creativity. That has to come from the forwards. And when they lack it, there's nothing else. Maybe each doesn't trust the other? At times, until the recent slump, we did create chances but were wasteful for a variety of reasons. It's all so frustrating, but I do think there is a big lack of confidence.

We have the forwards who are reluctant to shoot and to take a defender on, so it's often one more pass. And the midfield and wing backs are taking too long to get the ball into the danger area. Maybe a third manager can fix it, but two have failed so far. I think it's incompatibility between these players. Whether they would go up a level playing with different style of players, it's well possible, but is no use to us as we don't have those "different style" players! BAsically, no coaching or tactics is going to fix it without radical squad changes.
 

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Agreed. That was a pure fluke. It was another game where he watched us being battered and creating nothing all game and would not change the system or make subs.

my position is this guy is here purely because he is Portuguese. If he was from the U.K. and called Brian he would never be the wolves manager. He is uninspiring, unqualified, inept and out of his depth.
He doesn’t get your vote, then!? :)

It seems he was brought in because he could possibly turn Wolves into the attacking unit of his Benfica title winning team. And because he gave young players opportunities when he stepped up.

At Wolves, though, the attacking flair disappeared after those first three games and we are mostly exactly the same as last season. Fabio barely gets a full game, young players are in for one or two fames then they are out and he slags off a young player in the media. It seems the pressures of being a no.1 are too much.
 

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Newcastle's Board is still a bunch of idiots then, if that's their thinking, so nothing changes. Unfortunately, however, even if he got shown the door at Newcastle, Eddie Howe isn't Portuguese, so no chance he would get a job with us. He doesn't strike me as a 'yes man' either, which is another reason why there is no chance Shi would appoint him.

TBH I'm expecting Lopetegui to rock up at Newcastle.
 
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Ian C

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For a Head Coach with a reputation for bringing on youngsters, he has a record of not selecting ours on a regular basis:

Toti - disappeared after playing well and ignored until Lage had no other choice;
RAN - his attacking instincts have often been ignored at the cost of Marcal's greater experience and defensive nous;
Cundle - very promising debut, then out of the side even when we were struggling for fit CMs;
Chiquinho - he has consistently shown attacking flair in the few minutes here and there, before the last few matches (where he has been very effective down the right);
Fabio - starting to show strength, movement off the ball and an ability to play others in, but left out regularly whilst those out of form (Hwang and - until recently - Raul) play ahead of him.

Disappointing IMO.
All players who are able to play fast paced attacking football.

It's pretty clear why they've been underused. No need for 'that kind of thing'.
 

SteveBullsKnee

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Newcastle's Board is still a bunch of idiots then, if that's their thinking, so nothing changes. Unfortunately, however, even if he got shown the door at Newcastle, Eddie Howe isn't Portuguese, so no chance he would get a job with us. He doesn't strike me as a 'yes man' either, which is another reason why there is no chance Shi would appoint him.
Evidence any of Shi’s appointments have been “yes” men?
 

JayStringer

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Evidence any of Shi’s appointments have been “yes” men?

MolMix 101. Anyone a poster doesn't like is a yes man. Until a few years down the line when that yes man becomes part of a much better past era.

I submit as evidence Kevin Thelwell. Nothing but an over-promoted yes man in the Mix's eyes while he was here. Now he's gone and Sellars has his job, and the Mix longs for the glory days when we recruited the likes of Neves, Moutinho, Jota, finished seventh and qualified for Europe. All while Thelwell was in the Sellars role. Damn all these yes men.
 

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If you are an international, ambitious player with experience on the world stage like neves, mountinho, Raul, Jonny, Neto etc are you really going to sit in the dressing room or be on the training pitch and give a crap what Bruno lage says about the game?!

He is a total no one with no playing experience and pretty much no managerial experience. You see the way players listen to senior coaches and want to learn from them to get better. There is no way a single player at wolves is thinking “I really want to play for lage and do what he says cos he can help me be a better player”.

We tried it for one year. He ain’t the guy. No one is inspired by this guy. He is a wet lettuce.
 

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If you are an international, ambitious player with experience on the world stage like neves, mountinho, Raul, Jonny, Neto etc are you really going to sit in the dressing room or be on the training pitch and give a crap what Bruno lage says about the game?!

He is a total no one with no playing experience and pretty much no managerial experience. You see the way players listen to senior coaches and want to learn from them to get better. There is no way a single player at wolves is thinking “I really want to play for lage and do what he says cos he can help me be a better player”.

We tried it for one year. He ain’t the guy. No one is inspired by this guy. He is a wet lettuce.
So his record-breaking title win at Benfica was down to what? Fluke?
 

Warrington_Wolf

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MolMix 101. Anyone a poster doesn't like is a yes man. Until a few years down the line when that yes man becomes part of a much better past era.

I submit as evidence Kevin Thelwell. Nothing but an over-promoted yes man in the Mix's eyes while he was here. Now he's gone and Sellars has his job, and the Mix longs for the glory days when we recruited the likes of Neves, Moutinho, Jota, finished seventh and qualified for Europe. All while Thelwell was in the Sellars role. Damn all these yes men.

Are you suggesting that Kevin Thelwell had anything to do with those players joining Wolves?
 

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If you an international ambitious player with experience on the world stage like neves, mountinho, Raul, Jonny, Neto etc are you really going to sit in the dressing room or be on the training pitch and give a crap what Bruno lage says about the game?!

He is a total no one with no playing experience and pretty much no managerial experience. You see the way players listen to senior coaches and want to learn from them to get better. There is no way a single player at wolves is thinking “I really want to play for lage and do what he says cos he can help me be a better player”.

We tried it for one year. He ain’t the guy. No one is on nspired by this guy. He is a wet lettuce.

I think most players are a bit more intelligent than just weighing up how big a "name" their coach is. Who would you listen to - Lage, or Lampard? Wenger or Shearer? Mourinho or Ince?

Obviously if the coaching is crap, that's a different topic entirely.
 

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More to do with having the best squad by a mile and a wonder striker, once he was sold it all went to **** and Benfica went on one of their worst runs ever
Ok. Why had nobody done the same before then?

Bruno had the same squad as his predecessor when he took over. They haven't won the title since he left.

Messi left Barcelona and, oh look, they had one of their worst periods ever and the manager got sacked.
 

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So his record-breaking title win at Benfica was down to what? Fluke?
I know it's mostly heresay but Benfica fans claim he hardly changed anything at all from his predecessor, Rui Vitoria, who was much more successful winning 7 trophies in 3 years.
 

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I think the most significant factors in our slow decline from the exciting pacy team that got to the Europa quarter finals have been the sale of Jota and Doherty and the serious injuries to Raul, Neto and Jonny (probably in that order of importance). How much actual influence Nuno had on the first two I dont know but his luck certainly ran out when they all added up for him. Arguably Bruno was unfortunate to lose Mosquera, Chiquinho and Boly initially and then the likes of Semedo, Kilman and Podence later on plus ofcourse he has had to persevere with a struggling talisman striker and no- one to replace Jota, Doherty and Neto’s goal threat. How we ever managed to get into the too half is actual quite amazing! Thanks largely to Sa and Kilman plus ofcourse our quality but predominantly defensive midfielders.
So for me it is a combination of bad luck and bad transfers in and out and Im not too sure it matters that much who the coach is when such decisions are likely made for him from above.
 

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Ok. Why had nobody done the same before then?

Bruno had the same squad as his predecessor when he took over. They haven't won the title since he left.

Messi left Barcelona and, oh look, they had one of their worst periods ever and the manager got sacked.
What loofah said
 

HowfenWolf

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Our tactics barely changed - teans found out we couldn"t handle speed or a high press
 

Mighty Thor

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I think most players are a bit more intelligent than just weighing up how big a "name" their coach is. Who would you listen to - Lage, or Lampard? Wenger or Shearer? Mourinho or Ince?

Obviously if the coaching is crap, that's a different topic entirely.
I stopped reading at “most players are a bit more intelligent” :0
 

Chris H

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I stopped reading at “most players are a bit more intelligent” :0
You cited Neves, Mountinho, Raul, Jonny and Neto in your original point, so are you suggesting none of those players are intelligent then?
 

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What loofah said
But he must have done something. There's a reason Rui Vitoria was sacked after a bad run of form and the worst Champions League group stage ever.

I'm not buying the fact that the Benfica squad suddenly got it together of their own accord and went on to score over 100 goals and win the league title without losing another game and Bruno had no influence on that whatsoever.
 
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