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Flump

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The argument that a more profitably "Wolves Sporting Brand" means more money going into the club is bull**** too. It's the same deluded logic as trickle down economics. Sellars' comments about having to make a play for any funds generated from sales is testament to that. Revenue generated the football club is available to the entire brand - Fosun will invest that money where they judge it to be most profitable, and that won't necessarily be the squad. Or they'll hold onto it and shift it into another arm of Fosun investments.

I'd have more sympathy with such pessimistic views if Fosun had taken even a penny out of Wolves. But they haven't.
 

Stoichkov

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Fosun joined with gestifute before finding a suitable club

Then it went surprisingly well with Nuno

But now. Are we really surprised considering what we signed up to?
 

Mugwump

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If we are going to sell to buy, you have to be better at recruitment and know when to cash in on players. Hwang and Adama are two areas where we stuffed this up. We kept one when we should have sold him ages ago when his value was higher as we could have replaced him reasonably easy, and we signed one who had proved nothing.

We can't be a club who sells to buy if we don't invest in quality young talent and mostly these days we aren't.
 

Hot Fuss

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Only watched the Jeff one so far, my now annual reminder that I’m not remotely important to the club. I must admit the **** in me grudgingly admires the way he doesn’t even try to hide the fact he couldn’t give a **** about the great unwashed of Wolverhampton anymore.

Jeff still believes we will get a world wide fan base while averaging one goal a game and finishing mid table because we have a recognisable badge. I’d question this. I notice he mentioned American and Chinese Wolves fans this year, can only assume the millions of Mexican fans he reckons we had in last year’s video have ****ed off to support someone else.

His face actually lights up when he talks about esports.

Pretty dull interview but raised a chuckle when he said this squad could make top 4.

All in all we know where we are with sell to buy and I understand it. Just ask that they at least try to make the team more entertaining and stop taking the **** with price rises.
 

freezin

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Only watched the Jeff one so far, my now annual reminder that I’m not remotely important to the club. I must admit the **** in me grudgingly admires the way he doesn’t even try to hide the fact he couldn’t give a **** about the great unwashed of Wolverhampton anymore.

Jeff still believes we will get a world wide fan base while averaging one goal a game and finishing mid table because we have a recognisable badge. I’d question this. I notice he mentioned American and Chinese Wolves fans this year, can only assume the millions of Mexican fans he reckons we had in last year’s video have ****ed off to support someone else.

His face actually lights up when he talks about esports.

Pretty dull interview but raised a chuckle when he said this squad could make top 4.

All in all we know where we are with sell to buy and I understand it. Just ask that they at least try to make the team more entertaining and stop taking the **** with price rises.
I've not seen it.
I nearly dropped into a coma with the Bruno interview so much that I couldn't handle any more.

Ask Wolves what?
How to put a glass eye to sleep?
 

Mugwump

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I'll hold off from getting too worked up about this lot until I've watched them after work this afternoon, but this thing about Jeff being fed up with old fans is interesting. Not sure what it's all about at the moment, but he had better be careful that he doesn't alienate the old fans who are the core of this club.
 
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JayStringer

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I'll be honest, I don't see any issue with what he says. He's saying Wolves are run as a business, which we knew. He's saying FFP places a ceiling on what we can spend, which we knew. He's saying we need to think more of branding opportunities and ways to bring in revenue to raise that FFP ceiling, which we knew. He's saying the club need to look beyond having just a local fanbase and find ways to build a global one, which we knew.
 

SydneyWolf

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For the most part I get what Jeff is saying. You just have to look at the Deloitte report and the commercial revenue earned by the top 12-14 teams in Europe and the drop off after that. The top 7 are way out sight (>$250m per year) but Juventus, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Dortmund occupy the 8-13 spots with commercial revenue between $150m and $180m per year. Then Atletico with $98m. Next in line are Leicester ($46m), West Ham($36m) and us ($27m). That drop off is massive, and it's what Fosun is trying to bridge. It takes a long time which is why Jeff talks about long-term projects. Fosun just isn't going to tip in that $100m per year difference, even if it could. Everton, Villa and Newcastle might try for a few years, but they can't all expect to succeed long term.

The two things that Jeff didn't really acknowledge are 1. Falling out of the Premier League would completely undo this project and would wipe $100m in TV revenue at a stroke, so some investment in the team is unavoidable to ensure that doesn't happen; and 2. If you don't care about the local fanbase, stop asking the 20,000 season ticket holders that are contributing $600-700 each per season to pay more every year. Since commercial revenue is the key to long term success, concentrate on monetising the million new global fans by finding a way to get another $10 from each of them instead.
 

JayStringer

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Since commercial revenue is the key to long term success, concentrate on monetising the million new global fans by finding a way to get another $10 from each of them instead.

A fair point. One that TBH I think we will start to see more of. But in advertising income. The value of the other kinds of fans coming to Fosun Sports will, in turn, drive up the size of advertising and sponsorship revenue. Might not be seen in the incoming new shirt sponsorship deal, but I think it is a benefit we'll start to see soon.
 

VancouverWolf

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Watched the Jeff Shi episode. In the context of modern football I don't see the problem with what he said. Without an oligarch or a sheikh in charge then I don't see how else smaller clubs like us can compete in the EPL.

Yes the business of modern football is soulless compared to what it used to be, but I'm not sure how we change that and it's a wider problem than Wolves.

What's the alternative anyway, Steve Morgan? Mike Ashley? The chicken farmers at Blackburn?

I can think of a few things I dislike about Fosun and their links to Chinese government but on the basis of league position and running things sustainably we've got pretty decent ownership.
Links to the Chinese government? Obviously didn’t help Guo when he ‘disappeared’ for 4 days and ‘helping ‘ the police with their inquiries.
 

VancouverWolf

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Nor do I!
why not?

indulge me for a moment, sir, and this is not aimed at you per se but to some of the negativity from others.

Nearly every window they’ve brought in new players…….didn’t have to but I bet you weren’t surprised….right?

But yet you don’t trust them to invest any money they make from esports into the football side of things. Seems a tad incongruous and unfair. Example, if they sell Neves for £60m, do you expect them to reinvest the money into the footballing side or do you think they’ll move the money over to their esports? Is your answer the former or the latter?

They have a history of investing in the club. Here’s a big example…….they bought Silva for £35m , ( putting aside whether it was a good investment). That was a BIG gamble and a sign of commitment to the future football side of things. They didn’t have to but they did it all the same. Could have spent the money on hookers, cocaine, a Rolls for all the ground staff and a sumptuous villa for Shi in Spain.
Credit where it’s due.

Yes we’re all a tad impatient for success and at at 68, I know that death could come fast and soon, hey…that’s reality) but I hope to see Wolves lift a trophy before I die.

For fans who don’t trust our owners, at the very least be glad that they haven’t run up massive debts against the club like the Glaziers did.
 
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Ercall Wolves

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Jeez don’t think I’ve ever been so underwhelmed and depressed
Really not looking forward now to next season
Im normally a positive and optimistic person but I see nothing but a long hard season of misery ahead with owners not caring one bit for the fans who will be spending a lot of money following the team around the country
Really can’t see what there is to look forward to
 

Hoganstolemywife

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The fact we even find ourselves talking about esports and developing income streams in Asia is depressing. I have no real issue with the way our club is run, they don't really have much choice. But football itself is broken and this is just a symptom of it.
I think I'll knock it all on the head in the next year or two... Since Leicester won the league, the powers running football have ensured nothing like that can ever happen again... If you can't dream, the game is dead.
Well said sir.

Couldn't agree more.
 

Hoganstolemywife

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Just finished off the Bruno one.

I like him. We were TERRIBLE in the last 10 games of last season but I think he deserves backing. It's not his fault the squad was allowed to go stale.

I've gone from being 'meh' back to give the man a proper shot.
 

Boss Hogg

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Watching the Russell Jones one it’s clear that there won’t be any stadium development anytime soon despite all the guff he comes out with.

Interest rates were at their cheapest ever, they are now rising, if it’s such a big risk getting any external borrowing to fund the build, Fosun themselves are sat on hundreds of millions in cash which they could lend off their own balance sheet to Wolves.

The overall impression is that they’ve given up on the club as it’s too expensive to take it any further, it will now be self funded and they’ll just hope we won’t get relegated. They will now **** about with esports and record labels, etc so they can earn some chicken feed in the vain hope of building a brand.
 

inaglasshouse

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I get all that Jeff says with the long term corporate strategy providing stability and safety for the investment.
But I can't help thinking they are taking our survival for granted, based on previous results. Its not a corporation in that sense, it means nothing in football. We start with zero points and need a drastic, miraculous even, turnaround from our recent form.
This is made more unlikely with the departures of proven players live Ruben, João, Romain, Adama, John and the best hope from the youth in many many years Morgan.
I'm afraid too many players that we have invested in are like the emperors new clothes, nice for the brand but ultimately useless. We can't go on like that we have the get it right, I'm fairly sure Bruno and his top staff know what is required, I hope it's not filtered out by the corporate machinery.
 

Redrockwanderer

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I have to admit I’m impressed with what the club have put out. They didn’t have to and could have just remained in the dark.

What Shi has said is spot on. FFP does limit the club spending £100mil each year. Therefore the club have to be clever, they are already proving to be. It’s great to see that Fosun have a long term plan. With each season, growth being evident.

Wolves will be a mid table side for a few years, with the hope they’ll grow each time. Look at the likes of West Ham, Leicester etc it all takes time. Leicester even had a great year, but have tailored off again because they didn’t have the financial clout to keep it up! Hence why they’ve sold their best players over the years… N‘Kanye, Chillwell etc. therefore, if Neves leaves and we sign two quality signings in exchange then so be it. It’s all about growth…

Newcastle and Villa will struggle… unless they don’t want to get into Europe!? However, they’re also behind Wolves, so they’re playing catch up.

Fosun have done an amazing job so far, after all look how far we’ve come in 5 years! Keep the faith!
 

kiddywolves26

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I’ve watched all of them other than Jeff shi so far. Many haven’t bothered looking at the numbers who have watched them on YouTube. It seems many have only watched Jeff Shi.

Now I get certain things annoy people and I’m sure he will annoy me with something he says also but do we really expect the club to spend 100m net every season. How is that sustainable.

From watching all of the videos I believe fosun are doing it correctly. The structure of this club is being built up from the bottom. Academy/womens/first team all working together. Improves science teams. Talk of redeveloping the training ground and eventually stadium. Making a better environment to work to attract better players and greater performance. Building the brand world wide.

I personally thought the videos were positive and gives me great confidence with the direction this club is going. If fosun were to sell up they would be leaving us in a very healthy position, a club that can sustain itself in the top flight. A million miles a way from what they bought.

And for everyone who talks about relegation etc, we are an investment. Do you really think they would sit and do nothing? They blew 200+ Million to get us here, I’m sure they would spend again to keep us here if they really had too.
 

kiddywolves26

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Watching the Russell Jones one it’s clear that there won’t be any stadium development anytime soon despite all the guff he comes out with.

Interest rates were at their cheapest ever, they are now rising, if it’s such a big risk getting any external borrowing to fund the build, Fosun themselves are sat on hundreds of millions in cash which they could lend off their own balance sheet to Wolves.

The overall impression is that they’ve given up on the club as it’s too expensive to take it any further, it will now be self funded and they’ll just hope we won’t get relegated. They will now **** about with esports and record labels, etc so they can earn some chicken feed in the vain hope of building a brand.
I actually think the opposite. I can see redevelopment in the next couple seasons, especially with talk they want to host 2028 games.

I think the Steve bull will be done during the season with fans still attending, by completing in phases. He even touches on this.

Under redevelopment conditions- wolves can give away fans less than 3k. So they give them the 1.8k in corner only. Remove the bottom steve bull tier, rebuild closer to pitch adding the 1.5k he stated. Move fans from top tier into the lower tier and close the top, redevelop top tier.

This of course means a remodel of current stand rather than a whole rebuild. But once complete you wouldn’t even know the difference. Hardly any revenue lost in process and at a cost of 20m only.
 

theweave

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Just finished all 11 and found it really interesting. Credit to the club for doing this, liked the new format with each section of the club getting it's own section.

The steve bull lower stuff sounded good, won't hold my breath on it but the level of detail he went into sounds like it is at least being seriously discussed.

Bruno seems to want pace and height in his team this summer.

Esports etc whilst I don't play games I can see how it could bring big revenue to the club with the number of players and the in game purchases, problem will be if the top 6 cotton on and get involved.

Whilst FFP might not be a problem for us as the european limits we had have now passed, it will always be a problem until our revenue increases should we get in europe again. Hopefully with the increased brand exposure we can get some new sponsors on board to increase 'our ceiling'
 

Adrian_Monk

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Whilst Shi doth protest too much, I was a bit more comfortable with Vinny this time around. He's a money man, a pen pusher, but he at least sounded a bit more humble this time
 

Summer_Wolf

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What the hell is a legacy fan?? We are all supporters for a long time
The real local Wolves fans, as opposed to the plastics in Mexico, China etc that didn't know who we were a few years ago that Jeff ridiculously refers to as 'fans'. Some esports fanatic is apparently more important than a proper fan who pays good money to go to games according to our Jeffery!
 

VancouverWolf

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The real local Wolves fans, as opposed to the plastics in Mexico, China etc that didn't know who we were a few years ago that Jeff ridiculously refers to as 'fans'. Some esports fanatic is apparently more important than a proper fan who pays good money to go to games according to our Jeffery!
Don’t think he actually said that or even implied it.
 

Mile End Wanderer

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The real local Wolves fans, as opposed to the plastics in Mexico, China etc that didn't know who we were a few years ago that Jeff ridiculously refers to as 'fans'. Some esports fanatic is apparently more important than a proper fan who pays good money to go to games according to our Jeffery!
Ah he wants those to pay more than us
 

CodsallWolf

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I think the whole of the Jeff interview is epitomized in one of the first questions Johnny asks. The question of what the Fosun’s vision is for the club should be bread and butter and should be answered with simple, precise and concise clarity conveying what the aspiration is, and providing the strategic plan in place to pursue that vision. This is a basic leadership necessity to provide clarity and through that align everybody around that vision and strategy. He butchered the answer completely....something about ‘always to be the best’.... and then...... ‘if we have any chance, we should compete with the best’.

What I think he should have said is something like:

‘our vision is for Wolves to regain its place as the very pinnacle of the global footballing pyramid’

How we will pursue that vision?

- By executing multiple commercial and investment strategies that will leverage the Wolves name in order allow the club to increase its global reach, drive its revenue growth and ultimately its ability to invest more directly into the first team within the constraints of FFP, which will in turn drive revenue and bottom line growth.

- By relentlessly pursuing continual improvement in all aspects and outcomes of the footballing side of our operations within necessary financial constraints, with particular focus in excelling at identifying, attracting and developing young talent and providing them a tangible opportunity to fulfil their own goals by playing football for Wolves.

- Continuing to embrace the values that underpin the culture of Wolves by constantly ensuring engagement with our loyal supporter base is maintained and leveraged in order to serve the city of Wolverhampton and its people and to grow the visual and vocal support required to help the team drive on-field performance and results.

I am sure that is not the vision and strategy but something along those lines is what I would expect - something structured and clear, without alienating the people the club will still expect to shell out huge amounts of money directly on the club.
 
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DanishWolf

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I think the term "Legacy fan" is well described by The Atletic here.
It doesn't necessarily have to do with geography. I'd be labelled a legacy fan too, even though I live in Denmark.
New fans of course could of course become legacy fans in due time (We were all new fans at one time).
However from a marketing perspective we aren't (according to Perez) and others worth much attention. We'll be supporting the club no matter what. Temporary supporters (or customers if you like) wouldn't. They need the buzz of seeing their national players play for the club, or in Real Madrids case, sign super stars. Or other consumer designed ventures to get them excited for a while.
Then they'll buy the merch, maybe even go to a game.
They'll not stay loyal of course. But from a marketing perspective that's unimportant, as long as for a period of time, they put money into the "brand."

As for Shi? I think its quite clear what he and Fosun thinks. They don't dislike legacy fans. But our opinion or dissatisfaction is certainly less important. Because we'll stay no matter what..
 

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wwbug

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I am sure one of Jeff Shi’a priorities was to stop any runaway expectations.
Particularly this summer . And he seems to have achieved that goal.
 

HowfenWolf

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I think the whole of the Jeff interview is epitomized in one of the first questions Johnny asks The question of what the Fosun’s vision is for the club should be bread and butter and should be answered with simple, precise and concise clarity conveying what the aspiration is, and providing the strategic plan in place to pursue that vision. This is a basic leadership necessity to provide clarity and through that align everybody around that vision and strategy. He butchered the answer completely....something about ‘always to be the best’.... and then...... ‘if we have any chance, we should compete with the best’.

What I think he should have said is something like:

‘our vision is for Wolves to regain its place as the very pinnacle of the global footballing pyramid’

How we will pursue that vision?

- By executing multiple commercial and investment strategies that will leverage the Wolves name in order allow the club to increase its global reach, drive its revenue growth and ultimately its ability to invest more directly into the first team within the constraints of FFP, which will in turn drive revenue and bottom line growth.

- By relentlessly pursuing continual improvement in all aspects and outcomes of the footballing side of our operations within necessary financial constraints, with particular focus in excelling at identifying, attracting and developing young talent and providing them a tangible opportunity to fulfil their own goals by playing football for Wolves.

- Continuing to embrace the values that underpin the culture of Wolves by constantly ensuring engagement with our loyal supporter base is maintained and leveraged in order to serve the city of Wolverhampton and its people and to grow the visual and vocal support required to help the team drive on-field performance and results.

I am sure that is not the vision and strategy but something along those lines is what I would expect - some thing structured and clear, without alienating the people the club will still expect to shell out huge amounts of money directly on the club.
I agree with most of what you are saying .Unfortunately Jeff or whover is advising him don"t appear to have given much thought as to the target audience or how the messages would be interpreted by sections of the future/present fanbase

Its difficult to please everyone, but sending out mixed messages will make the problem worse. People rightly or wrongly bought into the "onepack" vision, only to be told thats not quite what he meant. As Wolves fans (many of us as legacy fans) we only want to know about football.Thats what we pay our hard earned money to watch. (Money that many cannot afford to waste in these hard times) We expect to see a decent football team, striving to be up with the best. We expect to see good football & some goals for our cash. We didn"t want to hear that our team would receive little or no investment or that certain other sections of the business would be the main focus of Fosun

Its going to be a massive season for Wolves as the team is gutted. Our play is stale & predictable, our flaws exposed for everyone to exploit, the goals have dried up & we"ve become a hard watch

Shiny new fans around the world are great, but very fickle.They won"t be there when the going gets tough (as it will next season)

** message to Jeff - New fans (wherever they are, won"t want to watch a midtable team playing mind numbing boring football football. Simplify the vision before its too late - focus on whats in front of you - everyone else can see it - surely you aren"t that stubborn to change??
 
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Deleted member drgr12429

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I think the whole of the Jeff interview is epitomized in one of the first questions Johnny asks The question of what the Fosun’s vision is for the club should be bread and butter and should be answered with simple, precise and concise clarity conveying what the aspiration is, and providing the strategic plan in place to pursue that vision. This is a basic leadership necessity to provide clarity and through that align everybody around that vision and strategy. He butchered the answer completely....something about ‘always to be the best’.... and then...... ‘if we have any chance, we should compete with the best’.

What I think he should have said is something like:

‘our vision is for Wolves to regain its place as the very pinnacle of the global footballing pyramid’

How we will pursue that vision?

- By executing multiple commercial and investment strategies that will leverage the Wolves name in order allow the club to increase its global reach, drive its revenue growth and ultimately its ability to invest more directly into the first team within the constraints of FFP, which will in turn drive revenue and bottom line growth.

- By relentlessly pursuing continual improvement in all aspects and outcomes of the footballing side of our operations within necessary financial constraints, with particular focus in excelling at identifying, attracting and developing young talent and providing them a tangible opportunity to fulfil their own goals by playing football for Wolves.

- Continuing to embrace the values that underpin the culture of Wolves by constantly ensuring engagement with our loyal supporter base is maintained and leveraged in order to serve the city of Wolverhampton and its people and to grow the visual and vocal support required to help the team drive on-field performance and results.

I am sure that is not the vision and strategy but something along those lines is what I would expect - some thing structured and clear, without alienating the people the club will still expect to shell out huge amounts of money directly on the club.
Remember he said in his first interview that he wanted to be bigger than Man City? Fans and media have been beating him with that stick ever since. So asking him to say the former is just something to keep beating him with it again, and he clearly isn't going to do it.
The rest of what you are asking him to do he is doing, but he's not saying it how you want him to. You are a fan talking, and he is a business man. The way he explains it will not be how you do down the pub, or on here.

I'll say it again, you cannot ask him to spend millions on players, but not grow the revenue of the club outside of Wolverhampton. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. I guess they could put season tickets up 300 quid each season, and double the price of shirts. Even if the local fan base gave all their spare money to Wolves it still wouldn't raise the revenue enough, and we'd see even more moaning from sections of the fans.
What he is saying, and the local fan base should be happy about, is he wants "fans" from around the world to be buying into the brand, which means the fanbase grows to a point that big sponsors and investors see that they can sell their products to much more than 200k fans. That in turn brings more money into the club, which allows more money to be spent on the team as our FFP restriction becomes higher. So basically the "fans" that people so despise are actually helping the local fans see their team grow! I'm stunned that some people refuse to see this as it's absolutely what the club should be trying to achieve.
And if 11 videos from all aspects of the club isn't fan engagement then i really don't know what people want. Maybe go round to everyone's house and chat about club matters over a pot of tea?
No other PL club engages the fans like Wolves do with these videos. The only problem is sometimes they just don't tell you what you want to hear. They just tell the truth.
 
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