Ask Wolves

[MattH]

I'm starting to wonder if the football is even relevant at all.

Listening to the Russell Jones one, he said there would be many people in China who wouldn't even know we had a football team, they just know us from eSports.

If that is as massive and important as people at the club are saying, with the brand etc. then what does it matter what division we're in?

We think it does because the Premier League has a global audience but if this eSports is bigger, and Wolves are one of the best, then the brand is established in that sector. Therefore, us being in the PL or the Championship is pretty irrelevant.

To me, it sounds like Fosun are running with this 'brand' and if the eSports is successful, the football is pointless.

Only issue with that is why buy Wolves in the first place? Our history and identity is meaningless to esports audiences and Fosun could quite easily have created their own brand for esports for a fraction of what they paid for the club.

I think the prestige of the brand playing EPL football is important to them.

 

[KnowNuttin]

The fact we even find ourselves talking about esports and developing income streams in Asia is depressing. I have no real issue with the way our club is run, they don't really have much choice. But football itself is broken and this is just a symptom of it.
I think I'll knock it all on the head in the next year or two... Since Leicester won the league, the powers running football have ensured nothing like that can ever happen again... If you can't dream, the game is dead.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

I'm starting to wonder if the football is even relevant at all.

Listening to the Russell Jones one, he said there would be many people in China who wouldn't even know we had a football team, they just know us from eSports.

If that is as massive and important as people at the club are saying, with the brand etc. then what does it matter what division we're in?

We think it does because the Premier League has a global audience but if this eSports is bigger, and Wolves are one of the best, then the brand is established in that sector. Therefore, us being in the PL or the Championship is pretty irrelevant.

To me, it sounds like Fosun are running with this 'brand' and if the eSports is successful, the football is pointless.

This is a key point.


There is a lot of talk about Fosun selling the club (eventually), but if the brand, the Wolf logo, the colours, the name is inextricably linked to all arms of the investment package (music, esports et al) then that would make a sale more difficult and verging on impractical.

Oh well, Amazon were book sellers back in the day. Long live tradition.

We'll raise our hands, salute the fans who rallied round to start the brand.

 

[DanishWolf]

Our league position is mentioned quite a lot when defending Fosun and its true, that finishing 10th is no disaster at all. Neither is 13th.

However I think people would've been more appreciative our style of play hadnt gradually detoriated in the past 2 seasons to a degree now where it was almost unwatchable at times this season.
We're so dull, so predictable, so one paced it hurts.

It's not that this is a new experience for me as a fan. I've watched Wolves since 1989 and seen some dreadful football at times. But back in the Championship the reason for it was quite obvious. Limited funds, limited players...

But now? What's the excuse now?

I don't dream about us crashing into top 4. I dream about shots om target and some attacking intend..

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Only issue with that is why buy Wolves in the first place? Our history and identity is meaningless to esports audiences and Fosun could quite easily have created their own brand for esports for a fraction of what they paid for the club.

I think the prestige of the brand playing EPL football is important to them.

Yeah fair point but was eSports even a big thing then?

Maybe the plan was to make Wolves the 'next Man City', they know that's not possible and now they realised we could become the best another way - eSports?

I obviously don't know, just seemed as though eSports is so important to them but more that it can be so profitable to them.

I don't see how we can help the brand now? And, more importantly, I don't see how us going down impacts anything to the way they're going.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

This is a key point.


There is a lot of talk about Fosun selling the club (eventually), but if the brand, the Wolf logo, the colours, the name is inextricably linked to all arms of the investment package (music, esports et al) then that would make a sale more difficult and verging on impractical.

Oh well, Amazon were book sellers back in the day. Long live tradition.

We'll raise our hands, salute the fans who rallied round to start the brand.

Yeah that is a fear I have as well.

 

[Pessimistic Wolf]

Pretty candid from Shi, excepting a few areas.

To begin with, there is a really salient point here about growing our revenue streams and making us more attractive to investors.

As a city and a club, we can't compete with the likes of Man Utd on the football club brand alone. We don't have the brand recognition, the infrastructure, the sporting success or the population to do that.

Of course, revenue does need to come from other places, and building a global sporting brand is a pretty reasonable way to do that. Commercially, it's a credible way to run a business. Wolverhampton Wanderers FC does not make enough money, independently, to compete at the highest level.

There is the point that we can't spend hundreds of millions on the team without consideration of financial sustainability. That's also really fair, and I'm glad that sustainability is a key factor here.

But there are a few points that really rankle.

The constant reference to FFP and European FFP is deliberate bull****. Shi talks about a spending ceiling, and that does indeed exist - but we've been nowhere near that ceiling for a while. I don't know the exact numbers, but I know that restrictions would permit us a healthy spend this window. Talk of European FFP is totally moot, given the broader picture.

In simplest terms, FFP prohibits us spending £200M this window. It doesn't prohibit £65M net outlay. But I am confident that that is how Shi is trying to spin it. I'd have far more sympathy for Fosun and Shi if they were upfront about the fact that they essentially want to run the club fiscally neutrally. Don't exaggerate the ceilings to imply your hands are tied.

The language around the value of the football club, relative to the broader wolves brand, is totally unconscionable to me.

Shi is persistently patronising and demeaning in his attitude to "legacy fans". He doesn't even bother hiding it in equivocation - new fans from emerging markets are more valuable to Shi than the lifeblood and soul of the club.

This is a leadership that speaks exclusively in terms of profit, and their only interests are corporate. UK based fans who attend matches are not the most profitable consumer demographic, so they are not the most important consumer demographic. Pursuing the aims of legacy fans is, in Shi's view, a hindrance to the profitability of the business.

The argument that a more profitably "Wolves Sporting Brand" means more money going into the club is bull**** too. It's the same deluded logic as trickle down economics. Sellars' comments about having to make a play for any funds generated from sales is testament to that. Revenue generated the football club is available to the entire brand - Fosun will invest that money where they judge it to be most profitable, and that won't necessarily be the squad. Or they'll hold onto it and shift it into another arm of Fosun investments. Premier League football clubs don't operate like independent high street grocers in the 1960s.

The insinuation that it's hard to convince foreign consumers to buy into Wolves unless we have signed one of their compatriots is galling in the extreme. Marketability should have absolutely nothing to do with transfer strategy, and it sickens me to the core that we might have signed Hwang (and persistently play him) because some Korean lads might watch an illegal stream of us.

Thing is, I don't think Shi is much worse than any other Premier league owner. But it's still sickening to see - not just ignorance, but deliberate disregard - for the foundation of the club.

I don't know how to square successful football ownership with the preservation of the soul of a club. Not only does Shi not understand what it is to support a football club, he actively doesn't want to, and seems to resent the notion that he ought to.

Maybe this is part and parcel of the modern game, but it makes me fall out of love with it.

 

[HowfenWolf]

How long before Wolverhampton Wanderers becomes just Wolves for our new supporters??

 

[MattH]

Watched the Jeff Shi episode. In the context of modern football I don't see the problem with what he said. Without an oligarch or a sheikh in charge then I don't see how else smaller clubs like us can compete in the EPL.

Yes the business of modern football is soulless compared to what it used to be, but I'm not sure how we change that and it's a wider problem than Wolves.

What's the alternative anyway, Steve Morgan? Mike Ashley? The chicken farmers at Blackburn?

I can think of a few things I dislike about Fosun and their links to Chinese government but on the basis of league position and running things sustainably we've got pretty decent ownership.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I didn't know this!
I'll leave the finances of the club to people with more understanding on the situation.
So as it stands, If Fosun were to cash in, would they have a better chance of making a profit or taking a loss?
I appreciate the input, these things aren't always black and white.

If they found a buyer now for sure they'd make a profit, finding one difficult though especially one with good intentions.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Pretty candid from Shi, excepting a few areas.

To begin with, there is a really salient point here about growing our revenue streams and making us more attractive to investors.

As a city and a club, we can't compete with the likes of Man Utd on the football club brand alone. We don't have the brand recognition, the infrastructure, the sporting success or the population to do that.

Of course, revenue does need to come from other places, and building a global sporting brand is a pretty reasonable way to do that. Commercially, it's a credible way to run a business. Wolverhampton Wanderers FC does not make enough money, independently, to compete at the highest level.

There is the point that we can't spend hundreds of millions on the team without consideration of financial sustainability. That's also really fair, and I'm glad that sustainability is a key factor here.

But there are a few points that really rankle.

The constant reference to FFP and European FFP is deliberate bull****. Shi talks about a spending ceiling, and that does indeed exist - but we've been nowhere near that ceiling for a while. I don't know the exact numbers, but I know that restrictions would permit us a healthy spend this window. Talk of European FFP is totally moot, given the broader picture.

In simplest terms, FFP prohibits us spending £200M this window. It doesn't prohibit £65M net outlay. But I am confident that that is how Shi is trying to spin it. I'd have far more sympathy for Fosun and Shi if they were upfront about the fact that they essentially want to run the club fiscally neutrally. Don't exaggerate the ceilings to imply your hands are tied.

The language around the value of the football club, relative to the broader wolves brand, is totally unconscionable to me.

Shi is persistently patronising and demeaning in his attitude to "legacy fans". He doesn't even bother hiding it in equivocation - new fans from emerging markets are more valuable to Shi than the lifeblood and soul of the club.

This is a leadership that speaks exclusively in terms of profit, and their only interests are corporate. UK based fans who attend matches are not the most profitable consumer demographic, so they are not the most important consumer demographic. Pursuing the aims of legacy fans is, in Shi's view, a hindrance to the profitability of the business.

The argument that a more profitably "Wolves Sporting Brand" means more money going into the club is bull**** too. It's the same deluded logic as trickle down economics. Sellars' comments about having to make a play for any funds generated from sales is testament to that. Revenue generated the football club is available to the entire brand - Fosun will invest that money where they judge it to be most profitable, and that won't necessarily be the squad. Or they'll hold onto it and shift it into another arm of Fosun investments. Premier League football clubs don't operate like independent high street grocers in the 1960s.

The insinuation that it's hard to convince foreign consumers to buy into Wolves unless we have signed one of their compatriots is galling in the extreme. Marketability should have absolutely nothing to do with transfer strategy, and it sickens me to the core that we might have signed Hwang (and persistently play him) because some Korean lads might watch an illegal stream of us.

Thing is, I don't think Shi is much worse than any other Premier league owner. But it's still sickening to see - not just ignorance, but deliberate disregard - for the foundation of the club.

I don't know how to square successful football ownership with the preservation of the soul of a club. Not only does Shi not understand what it is to support a football club, he actively doesn't want to, and seems to resent the notion that he ought to.

Maybe this is part and parcel of the modern game, but it makes me fall out of love with it.

Agree with every word of this.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Pretty candid from Shi, excepting a few areas.

To begin with, there is a really salient point here about growing our revenue streams and making us more attractive to investors.

As a city and a club, we can't compete with the likes of Man Utd on the football club brand alone. We don't have the brand recognition, the infrastructure, the sporting success or the population to do that.

Of course, revenue does need to come from other places, and building a global sporting brand is a pretty reasonable way to do that. Commercially, it's a credible way to run a business. Wolverhampton Wanderers FC does not make enough money, independently, to compete at the highest level.

There is the point that we can't spend hundreds of millions on the team without consideration of financial sustainability. That's also really fair, and I'm glad that sustainability is a key factor here.

But there are a few points that really rankle.

The constant reference to FFP and European FFP is deliberate bull****. Shi talks about a spending ceiling, and that does indeed exist - but we've been nowhere near that ceiling for a while. I don't know the exact numbers, but I know that restrictions would permit us a healthy spend this window. Talk of European FFP is totally moot, given the broader picture.

In simplest terms, FFP prohibits us spending £200M this window. It doesn't prohibit £65M net outlay. But I am confident that that is how Shi is trying to spin it. I'd have far more sympathy for Fosun and Shi if they were upfront about the fact that they essentially want to run the club fiscally neutrally. Don't exaggerate the ceilings to imply your hands are tied.

The language around the value of the football club, relative to the broader wolves brand, is totally unconscionable to me.

Shi is persistently patronising and demeaning in his attitude to "legacy fans". He doesn't even bother hiding it in equivocation - new fans from emerging markets are more valuable to Shi than the lifeblood and soul of the club.

This is a leadership that speaks exclusively in terms of profit, and their only interests are corporate. UK based fans who attend matches are not the most profitable consumer demographic, so they are not the most important consumer demographic. Pursuing the aims of legacy fans is, in Shi's view, a hindrance to the profitability of the business.

The argument that a more profitably "Wolves Sporting Brand" means more money going into the club is bull**** too. It's the same deluded logic as trickle down economics. Sellars' comments about having to make a play for any funds generated from sales is testament to that. Revenue generated the football club is available to the entire brand - Fosun will invest that money where they judge it to be most profitable, and that won't necessarily be the squad. Or they'll hold onto it and shift it into another arm of Fosun investments. Premier League football clubs don't operate like independent high street grocers in the 1960s.

The insinuation that it's hard to convince foreign consumers to buy into Wolves unless we have signed one of their compatriots is galling in the extreme. Marketability should have absolutely nothing to do with transfer strategy, and it sickens me to the core that we might have signed Hwang (and persistently play him) because some Korean lads might watch an illegal stream of us.

Thing is, I don't think Shi is much worse than any other Premier league owner. But it's still sickening to see - not just ignorance, but deliberate disregard - for the foundation of the club.

I don't know how to square successful football ownership with the preservation of the soul of a club. Not only does Shi not understand what it is to support a football club, he actively doesn't want to, and seems to resent the notion that he ought to.

Maybe this is part and parcel of the modern game, but it makes me fall out of love with it.

Agree with large parts of this, but the 2 bolded parts are simply conjecture added to fluff your argument.

 

[Jayjaywolves]

Pretty candid from Shi, excepting a few areas.

To begin with, there is a really salient point here about growing our revenue streams and making us more attractive to investors.

As a city and a club, we can't compete with the likes of Man Utd on the football club brand alone. We don't have the brand recognition, the infrastructure, the sporting success or the population to do that.

Of course, revenue does need to come from other places, and building a global sporting brand is a pretty reasonable way to do that. Commercially, it's a credible way to run a business. Wolverhampton Wanderers FC does not make enough money, independently, to compete at the highest level.

There is the point that we can't spend hundreds of millions on the team without consideration of financial sustainability. That's also really fair, and I'm glad that sustainability is a key factor here.

But there are a few points that really rankle.

The constant reference to FFP and European FFP is deliberate bull****. Shi talks about a spending ceiling, and that does indeed exist - but we've been nowhere near that ceiling for a while. I don't know the exact numbers, but I know that restrictions would permit us a healthy spend this window. Talk of European FFP is totally moot, given the broader picture.

In simplest terms, FFP prohibits us spending £200M this window. It doesn't prohibit £65M net outlay. But I am confident that that is how Shi is trying to spin it. I'd have far more sympathy for Fosun and Shi if they were upfront about the fact that they essentially want to run the club fiscally neutrally. Don't exaggerate the ceilings to imply your hands are tied.

The language around the value of the football club, relative to the broader wolves brand, is totally unconscionable to me.

Shi is persistently patronising and demeaning in his attitude to "legacy fans". He doesn't even bother hiding it in equivocation - new fans from emerging markets are more valuable to Shi than the lifeblood and soul of the club.

This is a leadership that speaks exclusively in terms of profit, and their only interests are corporate. UK based fans who attend matches are not the most profitable consumer demographic, so they are not the most important consumer demographic. Pursuing the aims of legacy fans is, in Shi's view, a hindrance to the profitability of the business.

The argument that a more profitably "Wolves Sporting Brand" means more money going into the club is bull**** too. It's the same deluded logic as trickle down economics. Sellars' comments about having to make a play for any funds generated from sales is testament to that. Revenue generated the football club is available to the entire brand - Fosun will invest that money where they judge it to be most profitable, and that won't necessarily be the squad. Or they'll hold onto it and shift it into another arm of Fosun investments. Premier League football clubs don't operate like independent high street grocers in the 1960s.

The insinuation that it's hard to convince foreign consumers to buy into Wolves unless we have signed one of their compatriots is galling in the extreme. Marketability should have absolutely nothing to do with transfer strategy, and it sickens me to the core that we might have signed Hwang (and persistently play him) because some Korean lads might watch an illegal stream of us.

Thing is, I don't think Shi is much worse than any other Premier league owner. But it's still sickening to see - not just ignorance, but deliberate disregard - for the foundation of the club.

I don't know how to square successful football ownership with the preservation of the soul of a club. Not only does Shi not understand what it is to support a football club, he actively doesn't want to, and seems to resent the notion that he ought to.

Maybe this is part and parcel of the modern game, but it makes me fall out of love with it.

No truer word on the matter has been spoken.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

I can smell stale Harp, Lambert & Butler and the Gifford bogs on Sellars from here

 

[The Wolf Of Wombourne]

Vinny has come across quite well in his interview, Russell Jones also has the likable gift of the gab backed up by knowledgable facts.

Jeff and Sellars…. well… they wouldn’t be able to give a straight answer if they attended a party during lockdown.

Vinny was much better than last time. One thing that did annoy me was he basically said a lot of aspects of the Steve Bull needed work and weren’t good enough etc.

Why then a price increase for a service they know isn’t up to standard?

 

[manchesterwolf17]

Pretty candid from Shi, excepting a few areas.

To begin with, there is a really salient point here about growing our revenue streams and making us more attractive to investors.

As a city and a club, we can't compete with the likes of Man Utd on the football club brand alone. We don't have the brand recognition, the infrastructure, the sporting success or the population to do that.

Of course, revenue does need to come from other places, and building a global sporting brand is a pretty reasonable way to do that. Commercially, it's a credible way to run a business. Wolverhampton Wanderers FC does not make enough money, independently, to compete at the highest level.

There is the point that we can't spend hundreds of millions on the team without consideration of financial sustainability. That's also really fair, and I'm glad that sustainability is a key factor here.

But there are a few points that really rankle.

The constant reference to FFP and European FFP is deliberate bull****. Shi talks about a spending ceiling, and that does indeed exist - but we've been nowhere near that ceiling for a while. I don't know the exact numbers, but I know that restrictions would permit us a healthy spend this window. Talk of European FFP is totally moot, given the broader picture.

In simplest terms, FFP prohibits us spending £200M this window. It doesn't prohibit £65M net outlay. But I am confident that that is how Shi is trying to spin it. I'd have far more sympathy for Fosun and Shi if they were upfront about the fact that they essentially want to run the club fiscally neutrally. Don't exaggerate the ceilings to imply your hands are tied.

The language around the value of the football club, relative to the broader wolves brand, is totally unconscionable to me.

Shi is persistently patronising and demeaning in his attitude to "legacy fans". He doesn't even bother hiding it in equivocation - new fans from emerging markets are more valuable to Shi than the lifeblood and soul of the club.

This is a leadership that speaks exclusively in terms of profit, and their only interests are corporate. UK based fans who attend matches are not the most profitable consumer demographic, so they are not the most important consumer demographic. Pursuing the aims of legacy fans is, in Shi's view, a hindrance to the profitability of the business.

The argument that a more profitably "Wolves Sporting Brand" means more money going into the club is bull**** too. It's the same deluded logic as trickle down economics. Sellars' comments about having to make a play for any funds generated from sales is testament to that. Revenue generated the football club is available to the entire brand - Fosun will invest that money where they judge it to be most profitable, and that won't necessarily be the squad. Or they'll hold onto it and shift it into another arm of Fosun investments. Premier League football clubs don't operate like independent high street grocers in the 1960s.

The insinuation that it's hard to convince foreign consumers to buy into Wolves unless we have signed one of their compatriots is galling in the extreme. Marketability should have absolutely nothing to do with transfer strategy, and it sickens me to the core that we might have signed Hwang (and persistently play him) because some Korean lads might watch an illegal stream of us.

Thing is, I don't think Shi is much worse than any other Premier league owner. But it's still sickening to see - not just ignorance, but deliberate disregard - for the foundation of the club.

I don't know how to square successful football ownership with the preservation of the soul of a club. Not only does Shi not understand what it is to support a football club, he actively doesn't want to, and seems to resent the notion that he ought to.

Maybe this is part and parcel of the modern game, but it makes me fall out of love with it.

Best post of the forum. Brilliant.

 

[Pessimistic Wolf]

Agree with large parts of this, but the 2 bolded parts are simply conjecture added to fluff your argument.

Concede that it is speculative, but Shi did talk about the difficulty of convincing foreign fans to buy into the brand without the emotional connection of having someone from their country playing for them. Indeed, I believe (and I may be mistaken) he specifically mentioned "Korea". It is also notable the number of East Asian academy/grasshopper players we've signed who are demonstrably below the required level. I don't think it's controversial to suggest that foreign marketability is a powerful consideration in our scouting.

I don't mean this to be a dig at Hwang - I rate him slightly higher than the average on the Mix and if this is the case, I would regard him as a victim of strategy, rather than any kind of fraud.

Regarding the idea of the profitability of the brand being key (or not key) to the financing of the club is central to Shi's entire argument. His whole shtick is that we need multiple revenue streams from across the brand to support the investability of the club.

Sellars' comments very clearly indicate that funds generated from transfers are not automatically immediately available for purchases. That demonstrates that the transfer kitty isn't self-contained.

If we sold Neves for £60M, that's money that Sellars would have to request from the board if he wanted to spend it.

Maybe I'm stretching and it is de facto immediately available transfer money. But in the absence of greater clarity (and this was a great platform to offer it), it's also very plausible that the £60M could be split up into whatever investment across the brand Fosun judge to be most prudent. Maybe that's a £36M signing, £2M eSports, £1M marketing campaign, £1M on a professional services audit, £20M in the bank for a rainy day?

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Concede that it is speculative, but Shi did talk about the difficulty of convincing foreign fans to buy into the brand without the emotional connection of having someone from their country playing for them. Indeed, I believe (and I may be mistaken) he specifically mentioned "Korea". It is also notable the number of East Asian academy/grasshopper players we've signed who are demonstrably below the required level. I don't think it's controversial to suggest that foreign marketability is a powerful consideration in our scouting.

I don't mean this to be a dig at Hwang - I rate him slightly higher than the average on the Mix and if this is the case, I would regard him as a victim of strategy, rather than any kind of fraud.

Regarding the idea of the profitability of the brand being key (or not key) to the financing of the club is central to Shi's entire argument. His whole shtick is that we need multiple revenue streams from across the brand to support the investability of the club.

Sellars' comments very clearly indicate that funds generated from transfers are not automatically immediately available for purchases. That demonstrates that the transfer kitty isn't self-contained.

If we sold Neves for £60M, that's money that Sellars would have to request from the board if he wanted to spend it.

Maybe I'm stretching and it is de facto immediately available transfer money. But in the absence of greater clarity (and this was a great platform to offer it), it's also very plausible that the £60M could be split up into whatever investment across the brand Fosun judge to be most prudent. Maybe that's a £36M signing, £2M eSports, £1M marketing campaign, £1M on a professional services audit, £20M in the bank for a rainy day?

I think for youth players the couple of youngsters they've signed (albeit not that many) they might take a flier on a few in the hope we get a marketing tool out of it but I don't believe for first team recruitment they would.

It isn't particularly plausible because it hasn't happened at all yet, I would suggest it is far more unlikely than likely given there is no evidence of it happening.

 

[Jefe]

So the thrust of Jeff's interview was to pimp eSports every 30 seconds, downplay the grievances of local fans, and blame the lack of squad investment on FFP - even though Wolves reportedly had similar headroom to many of our peers at the start of the season, which be could dramatically extended if Fosun only capitalised on FFP external investment allowances like everyone else. The glass ceiling is self-imposed.

We finished 8 points worse off than our best return of 59 points in 2020, in a weaker league (59 would've secured Europa qualification outright this season). We're seeing a regression within the playing squad, exacerbated by some questionable signings in recent windows. So, all this hype about brands, the global fanbase and eSports will stick in the craw of many people paying ever-inflating ticket prices to actually watch the growth (or lack thereof) on the pitch. The grand strategy is yet to yield substantial fruit, and it feels like the excuses for not adequately replacing our outgoing stars are being laid down already. It's beginning to feel like these extraneous pursuits are actually nothing to do with improving the team.

 

[Padraig]

I'm starting to wonder if the football is even relevant at all.

Listening to the Russell Jones one, he said there would be many people in China who wouldn't even know we had a football team, they just know us from eSports.

If that is as massive and important as people at the club are saying, with the brand etc. then what does it matter what division we're in?

We think it does because the Premier League has a global audience but if this eSports is bigger, and Wolves are one of the best, then the brand is established in that sector. Therefore, us being in the PL or the Championship is pretty irrelevant.

To me, it sounds like Fosun are running with this 'brand' and if the eSports is successful, the football is pointless.

And if the eSports starts doing well and is absolutely raking it in, why on earth would they reinvest it back in the football club? I don’t think they would.

 

[Pessimistic Wolf]

I think for youth players the couple of youngsters they've signed (albeit not that many) they might take a flier on a few in the hope we get a marketing tool out of it but I don't believe for first team recruitment they would.

It isn't particularly plausible because it hasn't happened at all yet, I would suggest it is far more unlikely than likely given there is no evidence of it happening.

For clarity, since the takeover we have signed

Ming Yang Yang
Sang Bin Jeong
Hayao Kawabe
Hwang Hee Chan
Dondga He
Hong Wan
David Wang
Tsun Dai

Clearly the majority are academy players, although I'd raise a question mark over Hayao Kawabe as a pretty perplexing transfer.

On your second point, I will concede that we haven't clearly seen that happen yet. I think I've been rubbed up the wrong way by Sellars' language.

Well argued counters.

 

[Norris]

I know what Scott is trying to do with his modernist rain jacket and madcap barnet

But it doesn’t work. Looks more like a shameless extra than shabby chic

Well his “Auntie hair” certainly hasn’t helped his cause.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

On a more positive note, the eSports kit looks decent

 

[JOSWolf]

And if the eSports starts doing well and is absolutely raking it in, why on earth would they reinvest it back in the football club? I don’t think they would.

Nor do I!

 

[Adrian_Monk]

In all seriousness, what a depressing state of affairs. I've seen some fans heralding Shi as a master strategist and at the other end of the spectrum some complaining that we've turned into a corporate machine that only reports into shareholders on profitability.

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle - the strategy is essentially little different to most clubs: find ways of demonstrating value to stakeholders and diversify as much as possible to capture as many markets as possible without a physical product. That is the norm in any business, there's nothing special or abnormal about that.

Then we turn to Shi partitioning the local fans and what Wolves means as a brand. Unfortunately he's made the mistake of failing to identify that the core fans are the nucleus: without a nucleus no number of protons will influence our atomic number. Period. Local fans will stay with the club regardless - without that affinity through family or heritage, it's nigh on impossible to guarantee any kind of long term loyalty from these revenue streams he goes on about.

English is not his first language and he has every reason not to divulge every strategic element to Wolves enterprise architecture. I get that. But he comes off awfully dismissive of the importance of the team, the squad and the fans. Whether he is actually dismissive of them, only time will tell. To be fair to him, managers have been supported, money has been spent, mistakes have been made, and lessons should have been observed and hopefully learned from.

Interesting, unless I missed it, that he didn't mention Gestifute or Grasshoppers as being part of the strategy.

However going back to why it's so depressing..... on the walk back from Wembley after the semi final, I turned to my dad and said "it probably won't ever get better than that again, will it?". Of course, it did, and we've had highlights since, but the chance to celebrate lifting a trophy that means something? Gone.

eSports ay we

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

For clarity, since the takeover we have signed

Ming Yang Yang
Sang Bin Jeong
Hayao Kawabe
Hwang Hee Chan
Dondga He
Hong Wan
David Wang
Tsun Dai

Clearly the majority are academy players, although I'd raise a question mark over Hayao Kawabe as a pretty perplexing transfer.

On your second point, I will concede that we haven't clearly seen that happen yet. I think I've been rubbed up the wrong way by Sellars' language.

Well argued counters.

Yeah, think we do take a few gambles on Asian players in the academy but they seem to be bombed very quickly if they aren't up to it. Not given lots of chances etc.

Yeah the language throughout the interviews wasn't very good from many of them, just not surprising to me.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

Do you know what - I can accept this whole ' they don't care about real fans' thing, because the reality is very few owners do. So to some extent, at least they're more transparent than others. It infuriated the life out of me when Sky were proclaiming the moral high ground when the Super League BS started. When we all know they'd have been singing a completely different tune had they been given first dibs on TV rights for it.

It's all *******s. It's all false, greedy, over complicated poker face crap.

I couldn't give two ****s whether Jeff Shi appreciates my support. What I care about is watching an entertaining and competitive side on the pitch. If they're incapable of producing that, then admit it and **** off.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

I don't think anyone who watched these videos can now remain unsure of the state of play. There was a cushion of waffle, but the message is consistent and clear.

The following two statements are true. A) This is, by far, the strongest and most successful the club has been for 40 years. B) For the foreseeable future, this is as good as it gets.

From those involved in the running of the club, there was no mention to the quality of football. The football itself doesn't matter. The brand matters. It's about the concept and image, not about the game.

The only people who care about the football are us, and we are a small drop in the ocean compared to the global audience the owners are seeking to entice. We don't matter, really, and if ever there was a pretence that we did, it's all moved on now.

Players are interchangeable in the grand scheme. Recruit/promote, governed by commercial finance, again nothing about the quality or tactical nuances. There's no point in spending if there's a ceiling, because we could spend an extra £50m and not get anywhere. For the club, 10th is success, not failure, and the standard of play and the spirit of competition - the true soul of the game - aren't a part of the conversation.

There's no duplicity here. The club don't care if you don't buy a ticket, someone else will, and they don't care about a fancy dribble or a 30-yard screamer, they care about marketing and global commerciality. The sweetener half-heartedly thrown in is that brand growth may one day mean we can buy better players, but that's not why they're doing it.

And that's what happened to football, and it's sad, but here we are.

Best Wolves team for decades, a top established club, but it's a shiny gold shell with no heart inside.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Do you know what - I can accept this whole ' they don't care about real fans' thing, because the reality is very few owners do. So to some extent, at least they're more transparent than others. It infuriated the life out of me when Sky were proclaiming the moral high ground when the Super League BS started. When we all know they'd have been singing a completely different tune had they been given first dibs on TV rights for it.

It's all *******s. It's all false, greedy, over complicated poker face crap.

I couldn't give two ****s whether Jeff Shi appreciates my support. What I care about is watching an entertaining and competitive side on the pitch. If they're incapable of producing that, then admit it and **** off.

Yep, all about on the pitch the "One Pack" lovey dovey facade has never interested me.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

Yep, all about on the pitch the "One Pack" lovey dovey facade has never interested me.

Exactly man. Same goes for the players. Some seem to think they're actual Wolves fans. As soon as a better offer comes along they'll be off. And fair enough.

Lets not pretend it's anything different.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Exactly man. Same goes for the players. Some seem to think they're actual Wolves fans. As soon as a better offer comes along they'll be off. And fair enough.

Lets not pretend it's anything different.

Seen (mostly on twitter tbf) people absolutely certain that if Fosun put their hand in their pocket a bit more than Neves would stay.

The bloke literally joined in order to leave one day (and we are very lucky he did). Does he love the club/the area? Absolutely. Does that change his grand plan? Very very unlikely.

Same as us fans really, if a £40M offer came in for Raul tomorrow we'd be begging the club to accept. We are just as bad in many ways

 

[WinchWolf]

Exactly that I think he has become complacent about the fans here and if next season thing start to turn negative fans won't forget these type of comments he makes and could turn a bit toxic. Won't be a good look for Fosun for the "new supporters". around the world to see...

Really feel this was a PR own goal from Shi...

I'm already hearing of season ticket holders who sit near me who are deciding they aren't renewing

 

[Hot Fuss]

This whole e-sports thing seems to be getting a ridiculously disproportionate amount of focus. Jeff talks about it as if it’s just as important as football on the pitch.

Used to think it was a nice creative way of increasing exposure, now I think it’s actually taking up too much of the clubs efforts.

The actual football team seems like a bit of an inconvenience to Jeff, he’s far more excited about e-sports.

 

[Bugsy911]

I'm already hearing of season ticket holders who sit near me who are deciding they aren't renewing

I'm actually close to calling it a day now, the last couple of seasons have been awful to watch.

I was hoping to see some early moves in the transfer market with renewal time approaching to give me some encouragement they know what they are doing with this rebuild however the signs for me are already ominous as I expected Bruno to be sacked but cant see that happening now....

 

[Leigh72]

Vinny was much better than last time. One thing that did annoy me was he basically said a lot of aspects of the Steve Bull needed work and weren’t good enough etc.

Why then a price increase for a service they know isn’t up to standard?

Because they don't care

 

[Deleted member sbk12944]

I was hoping for a clear vision / strategy of how he wants to play, what he will be doing to try and get more goals from midfield & the strikers, how he will be utilising subs more effectively to change games, etc

There was no honest assessment of what had gone wrong, what things had gone well, what lessons he had learned, etc

Can’t really come out and say the players here are mainly small and slow as **** so unless we sit deep or keep the ball like man city we are a bit ****ed. I want to play a 4 man defence but I don’t think what we have is good or quick enough, definitely not whilst the season is still ongoing. I’d have thought if the interview was after the season had finished the interviews may have been different.

 

[Stoichkov]

I'm actually close to calling it a day now, the last couple of seasons have been awful to watch.

I was hoping to see some early moves in the transfer market with renewal time approaching to give me some encouragement they know what they are doing with this rebuild however the signs for me are already ominous as I expected Bruno to be sacked but cant see that happening now....

Crack on then chap. Off you pop

 

[Stoichkov]

Because they don't care

Yep they do. Just not how you want them to

 

[Stoichkov]

I'm already hearing of season ticket holders who sit near me who are deciding they aren't renewing

Really? I don’t know of any of the fans who sit near me, outside of Molineux

 

[sc91]

I'm already hearing of season ticket holders who sit near me who are deciding they aren't renewing

Its an odd one, friendship group has about 7 STHs, only 3 have renewed. 3 of them have said they don't want it anymore and 1 has moaned all day that he like he has to but really doesn't want to.

Its strange times.