Against lesser sides, should we play this line up?

[manchesterwolf17]

I find it difficult to believe, playing a side and formation like this against opposition who come to frustrate us wouldn't serve us far better.

I just cannot picture this line up not creating chances. Yes, they'll be debates on whether Coady can play in a 2 at the back, but when the ball is up the other end, who cares?

You cannot tell me, this side would have struggled to barely create a chance against Newcastle a few weeks ago?

Horrendous VAR calls and daft penalties are far less significant when you're already 3-0 up and out of sight.

Far too many draws cost us last season against the sort of teams we know we're better than. I'd really like to see us develop and adapt to such obstacles by showing a bit of versatility with our set up.

That front 4 will cause any side in the league problems, not least the sides we've been dropping 2 points against on a regular basis.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Against a weak side that play 3 at the back and 1 up front I agree

against teams that play 4 at the back - I expect us to play any weak team that does that off the park this season like palace

 

[manchesterwolf17]

Against a weak side that play 3 at the back and 1 up front I agree

against teams that play 4 at the back - I expect us to play any weak team that does that off the park this season like palace

I agree. Just a bit of versatility in terms of being able to play what I suppose is considered a standard back 4 like that in certain fixtures.

The Newcastle game stands out as the prime example. Why we needed 3 CB's that day against their totally non existent threat is beyond me. It's a total waste of an attack minded player.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

I agree. Just a bit of versatility in terms of being able to play what I suppose is considered a standard back 4 like that in certain fixtures.

The Newcastle game stands out as the prime example. Why we needed 3 CB's that day against their totally non existent threat is beyond me. It's a total waste of an attack minded player.

agreed . I hope nuno will see it this way one day but I don’t expect him to soon. Sure he will find a way somehow though

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Yes, or drop Coady.

I was adamant he wouldn't be able to play in a back four but he was excellent for England against Denmark in that role.

Not that he can definitely do it now from that one game but I thought it was a complete no-go but he was actually assured.

In certain games we should play a back four though. It will only be needed about 8-10 times a season but it could make a big difference to our overall position.

There seems to be a reluctance with managers to not adapt now. It's seen as a real negative if you go away from Plan A but I don't know why. I remember reading about Nuno at Valencia in the year they did well, it was how he switched to a back three for games against Madrid and they won.

It's good to be able to adapt and again, it's not like we desperately need a fundamental change. It's making changes for certain games and when we're losing.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

With Marcal at left back who is defensively switched on I think he'd be disciplined enough so we aren't exposed on the counter, Semedo on the other side would be the more attacking fullback.
The only problem, though we haven't seen much of it and its early days but I think Semedo finds it arkward having Traore ahead of him

 

[waggys left foot]

I would rather see 433 but can't see Nuno doing it this season -we need to buy an aggressive box to box midfielder imo.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

I would rather see 433 but can't see Nuno doing it this season -we need to buy an aggressive box to box midfielder imo.

I think that should definitely be an option if/when we do get the type of midfielder you reference. One in which we've required for 2 or 3 seasons now. But until then, I almost feel like we should have as least amount of emphasis on our MF as possible. We lack creativity. Therefore adding another attack minded player feels like the solution. Instead of alternating between Neto/Podence/Traore with a 2 out of 3 system, just have them all on for certain games. It's hardly madness.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

1 question, barring Tesco and Fulham who are these "weak" sides in the premier league?

 

[manchesterwolf17]

1 question, barring Tesco and Fulham who are these "weak" sides in the premier league?

Lesser sides rather than weak. Teams that we were and should be finishing quite comfortably above again.

Just when I look at last season's results. For example - We drew 6/6 games with Burnley, Brighton and Newcastle. All three most would consider as mid to lower table teams? Those games are the ones I'm referring to more than anything. Did we really deserve to win any of those fixtures last season? I don't think we did. And for me, it's turning those points into 3 by being more attack minded that would have been the difference then, and probably will be again.

 

[reanswolf]

Good thought-provoking OP.

 

[WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax]

I can’t remember where I saw it, but there was some tactical video about Nuno’s time at Valencia or Porto where he dabbled in 3-5-2 or whatever but generally played 4-whatever-whatever, but he had really good centre backs to do it. I think Otamendi was one prior to his Man City move so must have been Valencia
I’d agree that watching the three centre backs pass it around when there’s 11 men behind the ball seems frustrating at times. The versatility of Saiss and Dendoncker to play either CM or CB should even allow this change midgame on occasion.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I totally understand what people are saying but we generally got a lot of points against the so called lower teams last season...... No system will be 100% proof and at times it may not work but this expectation that we should just blow teams away is totally un realistic.... The reason we didn't finish top 6 was just as much our results against our immediate rivals.. Man utd Chelsea Leicester (or be it VAR affected) and our last minute goal at home to spurs.... I don't think going to a back 4 guarantees to change those results at all..... Said last season I don't think we will get results against the top teams playing 3-4-3.....we was better the previous season 3-5-2 against the better teams.... I think that's what we need to perfect more a switch between the two not the drastic switch to 4......although I do understand what people are saying..... But I think a change to a 4 is more a last 15/20 mins approach not from the off......

 

[Kebab Warrior]

I think the days of a true box to box midfielder are done for now, not just at Wolves.
It’s not lack of ability, it’s tactical setup, with much more specialisation into DMs, AMs etc. Back in the days of 4-4-2 box to box midfielders were required, often with one going and one sitting... but these days it leaves the sitting player too exposed and either too big a gap between defence and midfield or alternatively too high a line.
We rarely / never see our midfielders break forward in our system except maybe Donk in a counter. I feel this is because we don’t want to get caught in transition with one of two CMs upfield and get countered.
I don’t think the answer is a box to box midfielder, it’s to play a back four and move Coady forwards as the holder in a midfield 3 in possession. Then push Neves & Mouts further up the pitch so they can actually influence the attack by and in Neves case - shoot.

4-1-2-3

 

[waggys left foot]

It's not just about effectiveness is it -I want fans who paid pre virus substantial sums to watch both at home and away to be entertained .

Now it's very entertaining when we get points against the top teams however we do it.

But when did we really put on a show and actually get three against any of the lesser lights

 

[WalsallWolf]

I honestly never see a situation in which Nuno sets us up with a back four.

There are two games I can think of when we desperately, desperately needed a goal. We all out went for it. Those two games are when we were behind against Watford and Sevilla in needing to get to the Final and Semi Final. We finished both of those games higher up the pitch, committing more men forward, more width - however, both of those, we still had three at the back, two wing backs.

I don't think we will ever switch from a back 3.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

The biggest issue IMHO is our predictability to the opposition.

They can work on tactics and set up all week knowing what to expect.

Rodgers changed his Leicester side as an example and it worked beautifully for him.

 

[OLDGOLD]

It's not just about effectiveness is it -I want fans who paid pre virus substantial sums to watch both at home and away to be entertained .

Now it's very entertaining when we get points against the top teams however we do it.

But when did we really put on a show and actually get three against any of the lesser lights

Agreed Waggy. On the whole this season we have been bring to watch.

 

[OLDGOLD]

I think that should definitely be an option if/when we do get the type of midfielder you reference. One in which we've required for 2 or 3 seasons now. But until then, I almost feel like we should have as least amount of emphasis on our MF as possible. We lack creativity. Therefore adding another attack minded player feels like the solution. Instead of alternating between Neto/Podence/Traore with a 2 out of 3 system, just have them all on for certain games. It's hardly madness.

2 to 3 seasons...try decade's. A rare type of player for sure. Maybe Vitinha can do it. It is an old boring drum of mine that I like to bang, but it is why I like Guedioura..direct. a direct run through the middle midfielder.....wold give Waggys left foot for it!

 

[paulhick]

I love the total arrogance of some of our fans - formation against lesser teams!! We ain’t world beaters yet

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

The biggest issue IMHO is our predictability to the opposition.

They can work on tactics and set up all week knowing what to expect.

Rodgers changed his Leicester side as an example and it worked beautifully for him.

Worked beautifully for them? We kept them at arms length for the entire game and they won with a dodgy penalty.

I don't buy predictable bit. All top teams play a certain way and rarely alter. Do city change? Do Barcelona? You find a style and you coach the hell out of the players until it becomes second nature to them

 

[Minimalist]

View attachment 18458


I find it difficult to believe, playing a side and formation like this against opposition who come to frustrate us wouldn't serve us far better.

I just cannot picture this line up not creating chances. Yes, they'll be debates on whether Coady can play in a 2 at the back, but when the ball is up the other end, who cares?

You cannot tell me, this side would have struggled to barely create a chance against Newcastle a few weeks ago?

Horrendous VAR calls and daft penalties are far less significant when you're already 3-0 up and out of sight.

Far too many draws cost us last season against the sort of teams we know we're better than. I'd really like to see us develop and adapt to such obstacles by showing a bit of versatility with our set up.

That front 4 will cause any side in the league problems, not least the sides we've been dropping 2 points against on a regular basis.

I’ve had the exact same idea for a formation and line up.
Crucially it still looks defensively sound and suitable for counter attacking.
There are other personnel options too. Killman in the back 2, Saiss or Moutinho in the midfield, Vitinha or mgw as the 10.

Ain’t gonna happen though.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I think a lot of our fans have never really liked 3/5 at the back despite the success it has brought us.
That said 4-2-3-1 could work for us. I guess I always have liked the way we've had our own style and not just tried to ape the big sides, albeit with weaker players.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

It's not just about effectiveness is it -I want fans who paid pre virus substantial sums to watch both at home and away to be entertained .

Now it's very entertaining when we get points against the top teams however we do it.

But when did we really put on a show and actually get three against any of the lesser lights

Villa at home was brilliant last year.
As was Norwich.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

Worked beautifully for them? We kept them at arms length for the entire game and they won with a dodgy penalty.

I don't buy predictable bit. All top teams play a certain way and rarely alter. Do city change? Do Barcelona? You find a style and you coach the hell out of the players until it becomes second nature to them

Leicester played Maddisson in the hole, cut off Coady with Vardy, targeted our left back and then shifted the left hand side for the expected introduction of Traore.

We kept them at arms length, they were in the lead by 15 minutes. I think the consensus is they kept us at arms length and scuttled away with the 3 points after their 3rd game in 8 days.

What did Wolves do or set up in that game that you didn't expect to see? What caught Leicester or Rodgers out in our display that day?

 

[manchesterwolf17]

I love the total arrogance of some of our fans - formation against lesser teams!! We ain’t world beaters yet

When did I say we were? Every single league in the world has lesser teams, otherwise every single game would end in a draw. I'm referring to sides in comparison with others. E.g. Brighton are a lesser side compared to Liverpool.

If that's arrogance, I apologise.

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

For teams that park the bus against us (Fulham, Newcastle, ,etc.) and we have to break them down, I’ve been playing with the idea of using Saiss more fluidly as the LCB when we don’t have the ball and tucking into the DM role when we have the ball in the final third of the opposition.

So, in essence we look like a team with a back four in attack where Coady and Boly serve as a back two and Ait-Nouri/Semedo are pushed up. This also allows Neves and Moutinho/Vitinha to be much higher on the pitch, occupying spaces just outside of box. Saiss can clean up any loose balls that come his way and he can cut out any quick counters to the opposition’s strikers, while also serving as a pivot to move the ball to the other flank in a switch of play.

I think Arsenal does something like this at times in order to get more bodies attacking the goal.

Defensively:
Rui
Semedo-Boly-Coady-Saiss-Ait-Nouri
Moutinho/Vitinha-Neves
Podence-Jimenez-Neto

Offensively:
Rui
Boly-Coady
Saiss
Semedo-Moutinho/Vitinha-Neves-Ait-Nouri
Podence-Jimenez-Neves

 

[Narfolk Wolf]

Would a change of system actually make much difference? The issue seems to be allowing players forward when opportunities are there. I've been pleased to see Coady venture past the half way line with the ball. Just think players need to play with more freedom and trust a team mate to cover when they do go forward.

 

[Direwolf]

I may not have any real life football manager experience but I am a tactical genius because I have watched a video of football manager 2021 on Youtube. Clearly Nuno should play a diamond for offence with Adama in the hole and drop back into a parallelogram formation of three defensive midfielders and 3 defenders for defence. The wingbacks of course should be overt and perpendicular to the edge of the defensive outside linebox to maximise the counter attacking threat.

 

[Ponty]

Against a weak side that play 3 at the back and 1 up front I agree

against teams that play 4 at the back - I expect us to play any weak team that does that off the park this season like palace

Not every team that play four at the back will give our wingbacks 15 yards of space. Palace defended very narrowly and it played into our hands and every team will have seen it and most will learn from it.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Not every team that play four at the back will give our wingbacks 15 yards of space. Palace defended very narrowly and it played into our hands and every team will have seen it and most will learn from it.

You say that we showed teams how to beat Leeds .

the week after villa played 4 at back right into Leeds hands and lost 3 0.

there’s a number of really poor managers in this league

 

[Ponty]

You say that we showed teams how to beat Leeds .

the week after villa played 4 at back right into Leeds hands and lost 3 0.

there’s a number of really poor managers in this league

I didn't even mention Leeds?

Yes there are managers that will plough their own furrow but to ignore the impact of Palace giving our wingbacks so much space would be the equivalent of putting the plough on backwards!

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

I didn't even mention Leeds?

Yes there are managers that will plough their own furrow but to ignore the impact of Palace giving our wingbacks so much space would be the equivalent of putting the plough on backwards!

You’ve missed the point

you mentioned teams will watch us and know how to play against us

But villa didn’t take tips when we beat Leeds , and they lost 3 0. Clearly didn’t pay attention to any of Leeds previous fixtures before playing them

a number of teams will come to Molineux and play as badly as palace did

 

[Kebab Warrior]

I may not have any real life football manager experience but I am a tactical genius because I have watched a video of football manager 2021 on Youtube. Clearly Nuno should play a diamond for offence with Adama in the hole and drop back into a parallelogram formation of three defensive midfielders and 3 defenders for defence. The wingbacks of course should be overt and perpendicular to the edge of the defensive outside linebox to maximise the counter attacking threat.

GERRIMIN!!!

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Is there a problem against these so called lesser teams? Our record against the teams in the bottom third was good last year. Ultimately you cant win every game especially in the current football climate that is throwing up some bizarre results.

 

[Contrarian]

Yes there are managers that will plough their own furrow

Nuno, prime example!