Welcome Notice

Hello and welcome to Molineux Mix a forum for Wolves fans by Wolves fans.

Register Log in

The happy days are here again, hopefully no more repeated arguments, transfer thread

sc91

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
16,725
Reaction score
17,962
So, our future spend is now reliant on how well some spotty faced South Korean gimp gets on in a computer game?

Jesus Christ, we are ****ed.
The western market isn't as interested in eSports as they are the personalities of the online individuals, unless they possess a bit of charisma most of the 'names' fade away and earn little after 3 to 5 years, it's an eastern endeavour with the western face, it won't work.
 

NJWolves69

Groupie
Joined
Jun 3, 2021
Messages
234
Reaction score
434
Any funding is welcome but we need to get real here if we think that this may be anything but a very, very long term contributor to our income as it appears, currently, we are funding esports. The positive is it gets Wolves name into a new arena but in footbal terms we are currently Bloxwich Combination Sunday league... will anyone be interested?

The thing is, whilst we may be amongst the first football teams to show an interest in esports we aren't at the forefront of e-sports we are very much catching up. The real ramp in e-sports started in 1999 and the top ten teams began from that point onwards - the top ten teams have have 700,000+ followers and some very nice sponsors. The top several teams have won prizemoney totalling 30,000,000 + each in the entire years they have been in existence (as far as I can see).

The top teams seem to be competing in non football related games such as Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Dota 2, League of Legends, and Overwatch so I quite wonder how interested gamers will be in football. Their sponsors are huge names such and Honda, BMW etc, etc and if they wanted to pore money into football then they could.

I think Wolves FC are funding the e-sports venture and it spreads the brand and Fosun name, quite how much we get out of it over and above publicity I struggle to see.

This is like joining the football league
Understood - that's essentially what I figured. Unless we're going to spend a ton of money to recruit top level gamers with massive fan bases to join the esports team, this feels like nothing more than getting young people with existing ties to Wolverhampton more excited about the brand (i.e. a kid who isn't interested in football but his father is a huge Wolves supporter). Which isn't a bad thing at all! Just wouldn't get our hopes up with this making a significant difference in our financials.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
4,132
Reaction score
7,253
. That's a very cynical point of view.

I guess you're right though, I'd guess the bigger it gets the bigger the need would be for regulation
Not really, I just read a KPMG report into the eSports market. The gambling aspect is a real concern given the age of the audience, so too is match fixing.
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,951
Reaction score
33,233
We're operating at 72 percent wages to turnover currently. That needs to come down to 70 percent or below to comply with uefa's new ffp rules.

The money is there for transfers but wages have to come down first.

You can blame uefa for that.

I don’t see lots of other PL clubs with higher ratios to ours aggressively cutting their wage bill. It’s also worth remembering that those rules don’t kick in over night, they are being phased in over a few seasons.
 
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
201
Reaction score
470
I’m pretty sure your wrong on this. That money will never show in WWFC’s accounts. It will not benefit us in one bit or help our FFP etc. It’s a nice little spin off for Fosun using the Wolves brand to push another revenue stream for Fosun sports group. Happy to be proved wrong.
I'll be happy for you to be proved wrong too ;)
There you go...

Thank you :)
 

Mark Rankines Lovechild

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
13,658
Reaction score
10,880
Understood - that's essentially what I figured. Unless we're going to spend a ton of money to recruit top level gamers with massive fan bases to join the esports team, this feels like nothing more than getting young people with existing ties to Wolverhampton more excited about the brand (i.e. a kid who isn't interested in football but his father is a huge Wolves supporter). Which isn't a bad thing at all! Just wouldn't get our hopes up with this making a significant difference in our financials.

Agreed. When you consider a "new-born" team is one that started in 2017 has earned a total of 3.5million is considered to have performed well... it doesn't seem like a great cash generator.

Genuinely surprised (or naive / old - delete as applicable) that the games quoted as generating the cash are not football games or motor racing / sport games it seems.
 

Mighty Thor

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
2,725
Reaction score
4,719
I can't see how Lage is sanctioning this without having a plan in place? Surely he must be apprised of the outgoings as much as having input for the incomings.

Read this morning that Ten Hag only has £100M to spend. ONLY!!!! Imagine what Wolves could do with that.

100m?! We could buy cutrone, hwang, silva, hoevre, jordao, sang-bin joeng and still have a few million left for Willian Jose’s loan fee.
 

Fenrir_

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
6,689
Reaction score
14,156
With respect, just like the rest of us, I don't think you know how any profits from eSports is going to find its way into the books of the football club.

If Fosun, the investment company, want to bankroll Wolves they will. But for whatever reason the evidence of the past 3 years shows that they won't.
No I don't. But as it stands everything linked with that emblem links to the club and as WWFC are the official owners of that emblem, WWFC should be getting rights whenever and wherever it's used - which is where it could be extremely beneficial

My own fear is that Fosun buy the rights to the emblem when Fosun Sports is flying and then stick us up for sale having separated us from the brand they're building, no sign of it as yet though. Other side of the coin is they build it like the Red Bull model which is practically everywhere and the football club always remains part of that model - which could be very exciting!
 
Last edited:

Alex Rae The Substitute

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
7,444
Reaction score
9,045
Why? Look at the bright side.

Starting 5th. Pl season. Finished top ten 3 out of 4 times.
Got some great players. Bruno now has a season’s PL experience.
Bruno and Jeff have said that if the right player is available for the right money, they’d try to get him.

Respect the positivity, but what about this sentence really gives you much optimism?

What’s the right price in this current market? Plus it’s a big difference between ‘try’ and ‘will’ get him.

Trying my best to not get worried about our transfer activity. But my hunch is we’ll sign nobody of note, as per the last 3 windows. I will however reserve judgment until the window closes.
 

Hot Fuss

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
5,694
Reaction score
13,943
Are you saying that eSports might one day be bigger than football? Are you suggesting that fosun might one day see eSports as a more important investment? Sorry, just trying to understand your point better.


Fosun are not diverting Funds from the club in any way shape or form though as far as I can see, quite the opposite in fact.
I think the point is this-

The esports branch of Fosun sports is apparently going to be hugely profitable.

The Wolverhampton Wanderers FC branch isn’t.

Which area would you, as an investment company, put your money and time into?
 
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
201
Reaction score
470
I don’t see lots of other PL clubs with higher ratios to ours aggressively cutting their wage bill. It’s also worth remembering that those rules don’t kick in over night, they are being phased in over a few seasons.
Which teams?

There are quite a few teams just looking at premier League survival. We have European aspirations.

I know it's a catch 22 situation, without more investment and bigger wages we have less chance of qualifying for Europe. But likewise with bigger investment increases the likelihood of us not being allowed to participate in Europe if we do then qualify.
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,951
Reaction score
33,233
I’m pretty sure your wrong on this. That money will never show in WWFC’s accounts. It will not benefit us in one bit or help our FFP etc. It’s a nice little spin off for Fosun using the Wolves brand to push another revenue stream for Fosun sports group. Happy to be proved wrong.

If it’s successful, and I stress ‘if’, then it will definitely help Wolves the club. An example. The value of our shirt and other sponsorship deals is directly linked to the visibility and reach of the Wolves brand. So if Wolves are a recognised brand beyond our team’s footballing activities, then those sponsorship deals will be more valuable, and that money will be Wolves club income. That will directly affect our FFP position, ability to borrow money, and total club income.
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,951
Reaction score
33,233
Which teams?

There are quite a few teams just looking at premier League survival. We have European aspirations.

I know it's a catch 22 situation, without more investment and bigger wages we have less chance of qualifying for Europe. But likewise with bigger investment increases the likelihood of us not being allowed to participate in Europe if we do then qualify.

 

MutchAdo

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
844
Reaction score
1,231
I think the point is this-

The esports branch of Fosun sports is apparently going to be hugely profitable.

The Wolverhampton Wanderers FC branch isn’t.

Which area would you, as an investment company, put your money and time into?
Personally I'd go for the one that would leave you with a crippling wage bill and massive loss of revenue if it got relegated.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
4,132
Reaction score
7,253
If it’s successful, and I stress ‘if’, then it will definitely help Wolves the club. An example. The value of our shirt and other sponsorship deals is directly linked to the visibility and reach of the Wolves brand. So if Wolves are a recognised brand beyond our team’s footballing activities, then those sponsorship deals will be more valuable, and that money will be Wolves club income. That will directly affect our FFP position, ability to borrow money, and total club income.
I don't know the answer to this one, but if someone buys merchandise from an outlet in South East Asia, does that money go to Wolves, or Fosun sports or some other business?

I ask because I know there are a few cheaper outlets in China or online, and I am not sure WWFC get any benefit from this.
 

Rhyl Wolf

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2021
Messages
846
Reaction score
1,245
Imagine having this little beauty zooming around your Scaletrix track. The Adama model would probably go flying off the corner and head straight for the goldfish bowl. I understand the financial value of e-sports et al, but it says little to me about my life. In this instance, the luddite I am, will have to trust in Fosun. Game of 'jumpers for goalposts' anyone?
 

Attachments

  • rocket-league.jpg
    rocket-league.jpg
    179.3 KB · Views: 66

Mile End Wanderer

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
17,380
Reaction score
16,575
Fosun / Wolves could easily take out a 60m bank loan and pay it back over 3 years. Short term pain long term gain.

Looks like the MGW rumours to forest are hotting up
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,951
Reaction score
33,233
I don't know the answer to this one, but if someone buys merchandise from an outlet in South East Asia, does that money go to Wolves, or Fosun sports or some other business?

I ask because I know there are a few cheaper outlets in China or online, and I am not sure WWFC get any benefit from this.

If the product is licensed, then the brand owner, Wolves benefits. If it’s a knockoff then clearly not from the clothing sale, except indirectly by further brand exposure.

But irrelevant to the general point about sponsorship deals. A sponsor pays to have their brand on the shirt, ground, etc and the amount they pay Wolves, will be directly influenced by the exposure of the Wolves brand. If eSports, music and fashion gets the brand more widely known than just our footballing exploits, then the football club gets more income.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
4,132
Reaction score
7,253
Why throw millions at the football team? What’s the point from Fosuns point of view?
It was an investment. We made a £20m profit last year, would have been more but for covhd, and the value of the club has increased significantly.

I can't remember how much but WWFC is now worth, but I reckon am someone on here has the figures. So, when we are sold to a texan oil billionaire they can get that money back.
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,951
Reaction score
33,233
Why throw millions at the football team? What’s the point from Fosuns point of view?

Because their initial investment of around £120m, spent buying the club and funding the initial squad building, has now bought them an asset worth more than 3x that on their books. Now, it’s a different question if you’re asking why throw millions more at the club. For that, the payback is less certain or quick. As Jeff said just after the takeover, that’s why Fosun purchased Wolves rather than an established PL team.
 

MutchAdo

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
844
Reaction score
1,231
I get that, which is why in their eyes they’ll spend enough to keep us up. Doubt Jeff gives a **** if we finish 8th or 16th.
Agree 100%. I've been on Fosun's side for quite a while always prepared to give them 'one more window' but it's becoming pretty clear where we lie in their list of priorities these days. They bought our identity (that's fine to some extent I suppose) but the outright idiocy of promising new stadiums and challenging for CL places was too much to back out of. They put their money where their mouth was for a while but now we are where we are it's like they're using us to fund the other stuff. I've never considered myself to be completely stupid but they suckered me to be honest, how long it's taken me to realise has made me turn a lot sharper than I thought I would.
 

Hot Fuss

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
5,694
Reaction score
13,943
It was an investment. We made a £20m profit last year, would have been more but for covhd, and the value of the club has increased significantly.

I can't remember how much but WWFC is now worth, but I reckon am someone on here has the figures. So, when we are sold to a texan oil billionaire they can get that money back.

They bought the club for 30-40 mil, pumped in 200 odd mill to get us to and keep us in the premier league.
It’s now worth around 300 mil. Good investment that gives them exposure to a brand to make more money in other avenues.

There’s no way they are going to start chucking 40-50 million at players in an attempt to finish a few places higher or provide better entertainment for us fans they are ripping off. The financial risk is too high. It’s buy to sell from now on.
 

Hot Fuss

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
5,694
Reaction score
13,943
Because their initial investment of around £120m, spent buying the club and funding the initial squad building, has now bought them an asset worth more than 3x that on their books. Now, it’s a different question if you’re asking why throw millions more at the club. For that, the payback is less certain or quick. As Jeff said just after the takeover, that’s why Fosun purchased Wolves rather than an established PL team.
Yes I meant spend more now.
 

L78

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
509
Reaction score
310
Maybe we should start a new Sunday Market on the carpark molineux market raise some extra funds
 

WolfInSheep'sClothing

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
12,809
Reaction score
14,994
I get that, which is why in their eyes they’ll spend enough to keep us up. Doubt Jeff gives a **** if we finish 8th or 16th.
I don't understand where this idea comes from. We earn considerably more the higher up we finish. Europe is achievable, we weren't that far away last season
Think the hard truth to accept is that the players that can bridge the gap between us being top 4 and the rest of the league want to play elsewhere. Throwing more money at it won't solve that problem.
 

Hot Fuss

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
5,694
Reaction score
13,943
Agree 100%. I've been on Fosun's side for quite a while always prepared to give them 'one more window' but it's becoming pretty clear where we lie in their list of priorities these days. They bought our identity (that's fine to some extent I suppose) but the outright idiocy of promising new stadiums and challenging for CL places was too much to back out of. They put their money where their mouth was for a while but now we are where we are it's like they're using us to fund the other stuff. I've never considered myself to be completely stupid but they suckered me to be honest, how long it's taken me to realise has made me turn a lot sharper than I thought I would.
Exactly the same, I remember actually contributing to the “who will be the first marquee signing” threads and looking forward to the 10000 south bank. Mug.
 
Back
Top Bottom