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Ki-Jana Hoever

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Miss the first half did you when the only one of the back four remotely decent defensively was Ait-Nouri? And where SHOULD Semedo have been then against Albion? He has to cover Maitland-Niles in that instance, absolutely has to - until he's told he can move across (being told is another debate entirely)

Everything gets glossed over in a win and people forget. We looked like conceding every time Brighton got within 30 yards of our goal. We were awful defensively. Fortunately bar that 15-20 min spell we mostly had the ball and Brighton sat off us.
 

WolfInSheep'sClothing

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Miss the first half did you when the only one of the back four remotely decent defensively was Ait-Nouri? And where SHOULD Semedo have been then against Albion? He has to cover Maitland-Niles in that instance, absolutely has to - until he's told he can move across (being told is another debate entirely)
He shouldn't be covering maitland niles in the first place. He is too stuck in the first phase of play. Probably why he was dropped.
And no I didn't. Brighton really didn't create anything other than from set pieces, where we were atrocious. Replace moutinho with donk and podence with adama and they create nothing. We had the right shape. Hoever was nice and predictably in the right place all the time. No getting caught out making overlaps he didn't need to make. No trying to pick up the man in the middle.
 

WolfInSheep'sClothing

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Everything gets glossed over in a win and people forget. We looked like conceding every time Brighton got within 30 yards of our goal. We were awful defensively. Fortunately bar that 15-20 min spell we mostly had the ball and Brighton sat off us.
They had 5 attempts first half. How many were from a corner?
There is a clear agenda here against every other defender that isn't Semedo. People are willing to run everybody else into the dirt just to make the 35 million defender from Barcelona look good. He's an awful defender; we didn't miss him at all.
 

SakosRightFoot

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Absolute nonsense

Hoever had a decent game yesterday but you do yourself no favours with rubbish like that. It's quite clear you have a massive agenda against Semedo and every single one of your posts is laced with huge bias

Why does it have to be an agenda not to rate someone and promote someone else? I don’t know either of them personally, I base my opinions on what I see and what I’ve seen so far is a young hungry player improving very quickly and offering far more to the team
 

Hoganstolemywife

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Thought he played pretty well. Always wanted the ball and made some good runs (in both halves) in behind defenders.

His final ball needs work but I always like what I see from him
 
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They had 5 attempts first half. How many were from a corner?
There is a clear agenda here against every other defender that isn't Semedo. People are willing to run everybody else into the dirt just to make the 35 million defender from Barcelona look good. He's an awful defender; we didn't miss him at all.

Haha. I never said we did miss him, Hoever was sound but as a unit we were a mess. Multiple players losing nearly every tackle, Coady and Kilman in particular letting players run off them and having to make last ditch blocks which led to a series of corners. Rewatch the game you'll see it yourself.
 

Fenrir_

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Why does it have to be an agenda not to rate someone and promote someone else? I don’t know either of them personally, I base my opinions on what I see and what I’ve seen so far is a young hungry player improving very quickly and offering far more to the team
"Hoever was miles better than anything Semedo has done"

It's nonsense, firstly, Hoever yesterday wasn't any better than Semedo has been since about December, let alone miles better than anything, and was way off the level of some of Semedo's better performances. And secondly, you are CONSTANTLY slagging off Semedo, and trying to find the slightest reason to blame him for everything which suggests a massive agenda. Dunno, were you a big Doherty fan and are consequently viewing his replacement as the devil?

You have a dislike that makes your opinion and posts extremely biased
 

goldfish

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Why is it that in the Ait-Nouri thread there’s no mention of Jonny yet in the Hoever thread it’s laced with Semedo knocking and then defending?

Can’t we just discuss Hoever’s attributes on his own merit?
Fair point, well made. I'm excited by our full back depth for next season if Ait-Nouri signs.

Both Semedo and Jonny strike me as the kind of characters who'll really help and be happy for their younger understudies.
 

WolfInSheep'sClothing

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Haha. I never said we did miss him, Hoever was sound but as a unit we were a mess. Multiple players losing nearly every tackle, Coady and Kilman in particular letting players run off them and having to make last ditch blocks which led to a series of corners. Rewatch the game you'll see it yourself.
But we were there to make the blocks. Which is surely what good defending is about? Staying with your man and not letting the attacker get a shot in?
 

cannockwolves

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Can I just chip in,

I think Semedo is a **** poor defender as well, and personally I would not pay him in washers.

And yes, I do have an agenda against him and would get shot if we could get our money back. He offers next to nothing going forward and is a liability in defence.
 

SakosRightFoot

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"Hoever was miles better than anything Semedo has done"

It's nonsense, firstly, Hoever yesterday wasn't any better than Semedo has been since about December, let alone miles better than anything, and was way off the level of some of Semedo's better performances. And secondly, you are CONSTANTLY slagging off Semedo, and trying to find the slightest reason to blame him for everything which suggests a massive agenda. Dunno, were you a big Doherty fan and are consequently viewing his replacement as the devil?

You have a dislike that makes your opinion and posts extremely biased

This is not true, you must have missed the multiple posts where I defended Semedo against those who blamed him for the Albion goal. Even Moxley will back me up on that. I have also not compared him to Doherty either. My dislike of Semedo is based on my assessment of his attributes and backed up by at times lengthy posts explaining why I think how I do.

Heres why I said what I did. Against Albion playing the exact same role Semedo lost possession 26 times, had a pass success of just 62%, attempted just 2 crosses neither of which were successful and made 1 dribble.

Hoever yesterday from almost the exact same number of touches of the ball lost it 20 times, had a pass success of 89%, attempted 8 crosses and made 6 dribbles.

Those numbers do not lie. Hoever had a very good game
 

Derbywolf85

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I was impress with Ki-Jana yesterday in all but one facet - His delivery in to the box was very poor. You can legislate for this with his age and the fact that he hasn't had as much development time on the right hand side as RAN has had on the left.

However you can see that with a proper Pre-Season and some good coaching that he will be much improved next season (a bit like Semedo will be).
 
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But we were there to make the blocks. Which is surely what good defending is about? Staying with your man and not letting the attacker get a shot in?

Not really, we basically put ourselves under massive pressure and exposed our soft underbelly (set piece defending) due to not getting the basics right (positioning, tracking our men, winning tackles) and had to resort the the Richard stearman technique.
 

AndyWolves

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It'll be interesting to see how Hoever does against Spurs.
 

Glow69

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So a 19 year old with a out 1000minutes of first team football to his name has now surpassed a player with over 350 games at the highest level in various European competitions and at international stage after a performance against Brighton. Great stuff
 

Fenrir_

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You really have no clue about football do you
Think he's won the PL five times, CL twice, FA Cup twice and League Cup once

As a manager, like, doesn't have the fast fingers to be a FIFA player
 

SakosRightFoot

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So a 19 year old with a out 1000minutes of first team football to his name has now surpassed a player with over 350 games at the highest level in various European competitions and at international stage after a performance against Brighton. Great stuff

Pedantic point I know but 120 of his games were definitely not at the highest level. At least 60 of them were in the portuguese 3rd and 4th divisions and another 60 were for Benfica B in the Portuguese second division. I mean it’s debatable whether the Portuguese first division is really the “highest level”
 

Glow69

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Pedantic point I know but 120 of his games were definitely not at the highest level. At least 60 of them were in the portuguese 3rd and 4th divisions and another 60 were for Benfica B in the Portuguese second division. I mean it’s debatable whether the Portuguese first division is really the “highest level”

Alright then I'll give you 200.
 

Fifty Niner

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I was impress with Ki-Jana yesterday in all but one facet - His delivery in to the box was very poor. You can legislate for this with his age and the fact that he hasn't had as much development time on the right hand side as RAN has had on the left.

However you can see that with a proper Pre-Season and some good coaching that he will be much improved next season (a bit like Semedo will be).
How the game has changed when we are expecting defenders to ping great crosses into the box. Used to be wingers and or right or left midfielders. Or maybe it shows how Wolves game hasn’t changed a bit in relying on wing backs for crosses despite management recognition of how we need to develop other ways of playing!

The Mouts short corner debacle second half, which even the commentary team throwing their metaphorical hands in air in despair, seemed to catch Hoever out at times. His crosses were not great, will improve as you say but we’re not much worse than anyone else.

I thought he did ok. First start in how long? And how much first team game time before yesterday? If he can play CB try him there, alongside Coady or even Kilman. Worth a punt.
 

OLDGOLD

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I thought he was ok. I think Semedo looks more exciting but sometimes for the wrong reason!
Ait Nouri though, that boy can play.
 

Sammy Chungs Tracksuit

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Can I just chip in,

I think Semedo is a **** poor defender as well, and personally I would not pay him in washers.

And yes, I do have an agenda against him and would get shot if we could get our money back. He offers next to nothing going forward and is a liability in defence.

Controversial but I 100% agree. Weak defensively and offers little going forward. I dont think Hoever is top class but IMHO better than Semedo.
 

92WWFC

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He did well yesterday, good defensively, good pace, got into good positions and his interplay with teammates good. He can't cross but that can be worked on.
 

hollo

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Wow. Great pace when he strode forward and outpaced defenders stretching their legs out to catch him. Hoever has so much potential but needs to cross better.
His defending was great. You remember that moment where the brighton winger couldn't get that cross in because he defended so well. Also he used his body weight between the player and the ball to let the ball roll out for a goal kick when brighton were attacking.
This kid could be great. We need him to grow another inch, fill out and then stick him in central defence.
 

The Clock

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Ok - he hasn’t done anything, but deserves more than total apathy doesn’t he?
Season long loan to PSV doesn’t do much for us
 

Dan G WWFC

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Ok - he hasn’t done anything, but deserves more than total apathy doesn’t he?
Season long loan to PSV doesn’t do much for us

I think the issue is, he has probably lost 70-90% of his value since joining us. A good loan could increase it back up
 

Hoganstolemywife

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I think he's pretty good....plenty of time to develop as well.

Abundantly clear that Bruno doesn't rate him though. With that in mind, no point in keeping him around. He's a saleable asset. Hopefully he either becomes a more saleable asset after a good season at PSV.

Or he has an MGW type season and is re-integrated into the first team next season. Cant see that happening if Bruno stays.

I thought it was very very harsh to call him out in public, and I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as being made out. I understand that I'm in the distinct minority with this
 
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Interesting to read this thread back. People pretending a game against Brighton where he couldn't cross a road meant he was better than Semedo
 

Keyser Soze

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The straight loan and the comments in the OS show that we've not cut all ties with him... so all options still on the table, he could do well at PSV and come back and be a player for us, impress and his value goes up and we sell for a profit, or he flops and comes back to our bench

None of these options help our transfer kitty this summer, but I still think there's a player in there somewhere and if he can't do it at PSV next season we know he's not up to scratch and time to cut our losses

Fair enough for not throwing away the asset just yet as a loan with an option or obligation wouldn't help us until then anyway

Time for Bolla to show he's got what it takes to be back up to Semedo (Jonny) and I'm quite excited about what he can bring
 

Wagstaffe Was Magic

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I think the issue is, he has probably lost 70-90% of his value since joining us. A good loan could increase it back up

He’s a very good prospect, treated appallingly by Bruno.

Bruno executed this young player in public.

He (Bruno) has done the kid and the club a huge disservice here, in the players case by destroying his confidence and in the clubs case by failing to protect the value of one of its assets.

I’ve gone completely off Bruno, in man management skills or lack thereof, in tactics or lack thereof !! Then there’s the bizarre substitutions.

I thought he had completely lost the dressing room towards the end of the season.

Meanwhile I expect Ki to flourish at PSV.
 

DDPPwolf313

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He’s a very good prospect, treated appallingly by Bruno.

Bruno executed this young player in public.

He (Bruno) has done the kid and the club a huge disservice here, in the players case by destroying his confidence and in the clubs case by failing to protect the value of one of its assets.

I’ve gone completely off Bruno, in man management skills or lack thereof, in tactics or lack thereof !! Then there’s the bizarre substitutions.

I thought he had completely lost the dressing room towards the end of the season.

Meanwhile I expect Ki to flourish at PSV.
Let's hope he gets a good run in the team. Do you think it is likely he will play much? I know naff all about the PSV squad
 

Dan G WWFC

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He’s a very good prospect, treated appallingly by Bruno.

Bruno executed this young player in public.

He (Bruno) has done the kid and the club a huge disservice here, in the players case by destroying his confidence and in the clubs case by failing to protect the value of one of its assets.

I’ve gone completely off Bruno, in man management skills or lack thereof, in tactics or lack thereof !! Then there’s the bizarre substitutions.

I thought he had completely lost the dressing room towards the end of the season.

Meanwhile I expect Ki to flourish at PSV.

Is he even a good prospect though. Never had a good game for us. Massively undersized to play centre half and not good enough on the ball to be a wingback.
 

Wagstaffe Was Magic

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Let's hope he gets a good run in the team. Do you think it is likely he will play much? I know naff all about the PSV squad
Me neither DDPP. I know he’s got plenty of talent and in what will be for him a much happier environment close to his home, I expect that talent to return to the surface.

He will be properly managed and coached there and I’m confident we will hear a lot more about him going forward
 

Dan G WWFC

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Let's hope he gets a good run in the team. Do you think it is likely he will play much? I know naff all about the PSV squad

Hard to say with them having a new manager. But they was playing a left back at right back a lot last season, who is a decent player too. With there actually left back being one of there best players.
 

The Wolf In The North

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Some of his cameos have been disastrous, but like all young players there's plenty of room to grow. This will hopefully be the making of him, it will help him mature and learn his trade rather than relying on fluctuating talent.

He's got to want it, though. If he doesn't settle, if he coasts or gets the hump, this essential part of his career will fritter away like it does for so many.

There's a decent player there, he just needs to grow up fast and want to improve, and maybe have a supportive arm around his shoulder, which wasn't happening here you suspect. Hopefully he'll still have value to us at some point.
 

Wagstaffe Was Magic

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Is he even a good prospect though. Never had a good game for us. Massively undersized to play centre half and not good enough on the ball to be a wingback.

He’s very young still. We all saw what he brought to the table when he played for Liverpool against us in the FA Cup. His talent was obvious and the Liverpool fans were quite annoyed when he was sold.

Time will tell
 
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Deleted member 8455jwf

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He's basically meh in every department. Not big enough for CB, not quick or good enough on the ball for wing back. He'd probably be best as a RB in a 4 where he isn't asked to contribute as much.

Defensively he is a bit of a shower as well. Spurs at home in the cup was as bad as it gets defensively
 

Dan G WWFC

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He’s very young still. We all saw what he brought to the table when he played for Liverpool against us in the FA Cup. His talent was obvious and the Liverpool fans were quite annoyed when he was sold.

Time will tell

Liverpool don't sell players they should keep. Can't remember a team buying a player from Liverpool and it working out since Klopp joined
 
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