Maybe. Hoever, they are players they are now because Wolves gave them a chance - it works both ways. Neither were starting for their clubs and even after great season in the Championship for Jota we were allowed to buy him. It demonstrates that, in every league, its a safety first approach taken when it comes to introduction of young players As league position is paramount and the easy way is to go tried and trusted.
“We have been terrible as a club at bringing through young players in recent years and a big part of that is because they are shoehorned into specific roles as part of a rigid formation and style of play, whether it suits them or not”
)
to bring players through, which you say we are terrible at, you have to give them a chance (not sure where you got “at all” from I never said that) and we do give players chances - some work out some dont. Wolves give young players more chances under Fosun, Prior to them it was Murray, Keane Naylor and Lescott over a span of years and years.
Yep, spot on. Blame certainly won't change what was an unfortunate combination of circumstances
Well said!
Again, well said.
www.wolves.co.uk
Great postChanging our style of play is the single most important thing we have to do. The potential knock-on effects are massive.
We have no money so the only way we’re going to ever progress is through sales. We need to sell big maybe every year to properly refresh the squad.
However playing the way we do is a massive hindrance to any good player we have.
Our attackers do not score goals. I mentioned before, Neto’s ‘amazing’ breakthrough season saw him score 5 goals and get 6 assists. This goal return was comfortably beaten by many players including the likes of Matheus Pereira (11G, 6A), Anwar El Ghazi (10G), Jack Harrison (8G, 8A), Bertrand Traore (7G, 6A), Stuart Dallas (8G, 2A). I could go on. A lot of average players outscored him.
Now, as a top club, can you really justify an outlay of £40m upwards on a player who has scored five goals? I don't think so.
In reality, we may want even more for Neto moving forward. We are not getting a substantial fee for him unless he is getting double figures for goals and assists.
Who else is worth a lot in our squad? Maybe Kilman potentially, particularly with the England tax that could come with it.
A top club is not going to buy a defender from us because our players show none of the qualities that they look for. It's about pushing up, defending bravely, nicking in front of strikers etc. The truth is we don't even know ourselves if Kilman can do this at our level, never mind at a top club because he is so well protected.
Brighton sell Ben White for £50m because Arsenal knew he could play in the way they want. Now, he's obviously a good player but surely Kilman could get to that price or near to it. He's English, he's left footed (which is a positive) but we won't attract those bids because they don't know if Kilman can play that way.
We are struggling to sell Ruben Neves in a world where Kalvin Phillips is going for £55-60m to Manchester City.
I don't mind Phillips, he's quite good. However, he is not a patch on Neves as a footballer but he will command a massive fee because he has shown with Leeds he can play in a way that top clubs want. He can screen the defence in an attack-minded side. He can cover holes when the full-backs are up the pitch. He can set the tempo on his own from the deep position. Of course, he has the English tax but the reality is that Leeds are standing to benefit because they try to replicate what the big sides do and they will get a big fee as a result.
Staying with them, Raphinha has given them 6G, 9A and then 11G, 3A over two seasons. The result - they have a £50m player.
I was going to start a thread as this may take away from Vitinha but it was his move to PSG that reinforced this.
I'm not too upset that we didn't sign him because he didn't look great but he clearly is good as he's just won the Portuguese league and is going to PSG! So, you have to ask why didn't he look great? And it comes back to the style of play.
We had a £40m player in our hands but we didn't give him the platform to perform. That's a worry. It's also a collective failing of Shi, Sellars and Nuno.
I look at Morgan Gibbs-White and I see a player that could potentially be worth £40-50m if we get things right. I see Neto who could be worth the same. I see Podence who could potentially play at a higher level even if he doesn't have the ceiling of those two.
We have Silva who in theory should be progressing to become a £50m player minimum but he didn't score a goal. Again, I don't really blame him. None of our attacking players score. Are they all bad? I doubt it.
Ait-Nouri is another but again in the modern game it's likely to be his attacking output that convinces clubs to make the massive bid that we will need. He has two goals and three assists in 44 league games. He should be capable of so much more.
If that means giving less defensive responsibility, it has to happen.
It probably means no more back three, although I accept you can attack with a back three if you want but we need as many of these players on the pitch as possible.
If we have to sacrifice a few league positions, so what? Obviously, relegation would be a disaster but that's the worst case scenario but I actually have faith in our attacking players to make sure that wouldn't happen.
Even so, if it means coming 17th but playing attacking football it will be worthwhile. Leeds may be in the same boat as us when it comes to sell-to-buy but they're having a better summer than us because they have bigger assets to cash in on. We don't, so it becomes a cycle. No big sale means no big investment and things get worse and worse.
We need to embrace the fact we're about to become a selling club because that's our reality but it can still work but to do it successfully we need big sales and changing the way we play is pivotal to making that happen. Dortmund and Leipzig are probably the dream clubs to emulate long-term and guess what, they play all-out attacking football.
The likes of Kilman, Ait-Nouri, Neto, Gibbs-White and Silva are going to determine our future. They need to play in a front foot, attacking team to ensure we can progress in the short-term but also when we sell them.
(Apologies for the very long post & well done if you managed to read it all
I have to admit, I did skim read a bit, but I agree with everything you said.Changing our style of play is the single most important thing we have to do. The potential knock-on effects are massive.
We have no money so the only way we’re going to ever progress is through sales. We need to sell big maybe every year to properly refresh the squad.
However playing the way we do is a massive hindrance to any good player we have.
Our attackers do not score goals. I mentioned before, Neto’s ‘amazing’ breakthrough season saw him score 5 goals and get 6 assists. This goal return was comfortably beaten by many players including the likes of Matheus Pereira (11G, 6A), Anwar El Ghazi (10G), Jack Harrison (8G, 8A), Bertrand Traore (7G, 6A), Stuart Dallas (8G, 2A). I could go on. A lot of average players outscored him.
Now, as a top club, can you really justify an outlay of £40m upwards on a player who has scored five goals? I don't think so.
In reality, we may want even more for Neto moving forward. We are not getting a substantial fee for him unless he is getting double figures for goals and assists.
Who else is worth a lot in our squad? Maybe Kilman potentially, particularly with the England tax that could come with it.
A top club is not going to buy a defender from us because our players show none of the qualities that they look for. It's about pushing up, defending bravely, nicking in front of strikers etc. The truth is we don't even know ourselves if Kilman can do this at our level, never mind at a top club because he is so well protected.
Brighton sell Ben White for £50m because Arsenal knew he could play in the way they want. Now, he's obviously a good player but surely Kilman could get to that price or near to it. He's English, he's left footed (which is a positive) but we won't attract those bids because they don't know if Kilman can play that way.
We are struggling to sell Ruben Neves in a world where Kalvin Phillips is going for £55-60m to Manchester City.
I don't mind Phillips, he's quite good. However, he is not a patch on Neves as a footballer but he will command a massive fee because he has shown with Leeds he can play in a way that top clubs want. He can screen the defence in an attack-minded side. He can cover holes when the full-backs are up the pitch. He can set the tempo on his own from the deep position. Of course, he has the English tax but the reality is that Leeds are standing to benefit because they try to replicate what the big sides do and they will get a big fee as a result.
Staying with them, Raphinha has given them 6G, 9A and then 11G, 3A over two seasons. The result - they have a £50m player.
I was going to start a thread as this may take away from Vitinha but it was his move to PSG that reinforced this.
I'm not too upset that we didn't sign him because he didn't look great but he clearly is good as he's just won the Portuguese league and is going to PSG! So, you have to ask why didn't he look great? And it comes back to the style of play.
We had a £40m player in our hands but we didn't give him the platform to perform. That's a worry. It's also a collective failing of Shi, Sellars and Nuno.
I look at Morgan Gibbs-White and I see a player that could potentially be worth £40-50m if we get things right. I see Neto who could be worth the same. I see Podence who could potentially play at a higher level even if he doesn't have the ceiling of those two.
We have Silva who in theory should be progressing to become a £50m player minimum but he didn't score a goal. Again, I don't really blame him. None of our attacking players score. Are they all bad? I doubt it.
Ait-Nouri is another but again in the modern game it's likely to be his attacking output that convinces clubs to make the massive bid that we will need. He has two goals and three assists in 44 league games. He should be capable of so much more.
If that means giving less defensive responsibility, it has to happen.
It probably means no more back three, although I accept you can attack with a back three if you want but we need as many of these players on the pitch as possible.
If we have to sacrifice a few league positions, so what? Obviously, relegation would be a disaster but that's the worst case scenario but I actually have faith in our attacking players to make sure that wouldn't happen.
Even so, if it means coming 17th but playing attacking football it will be worthwhile. Leeds may be in the same boat as us when it comes to sell-to-buy but they're having a better summer than us because they have bigger assets to cash in on. We don't, so it becomes a cycle. No big sale means no big investment and things get worse and worse.
We need to embrace the fact we're about to become a selling club because that's our reality but it can still work but to do it successfully we need big sales and changing the way we play is pivotal to making that happen. Dortmund and Leipzig are probably the dream clubs to emulate long-term and guess what, they play all-out attacking football.
The likes of Kilman, Ait-Nouri, Neto, Gibbs-White and Silva are going to determine our future. They need to play in a front foot, attacking team to ensure we can progress in the short-term but also when we sell them.
(Apologies for the very long post & well done if you managed to read it all
Vitinha is good though?
Great post.Changing our style of play is the single most important thing we have to do. The potential knock-on effects are massive.
We have no money so the only way we’re going to ever progress is through sales. We need to sell big maybe every year to properly refresh the squad.
However playing the way we do is a massive hindrance to any good player we have.
Our attackers do not score goals. I mentioned before, Neto’s ‘amazing’ breakthrough season saw him score 5 goals and get 6 assists. This goal return was comfortably beaten by many players including the likes of Matheus Pereira (11G, 6A), Anwar El Ghazi (10G), Jack Harrison (8G, 8A), Bertrand Traore (7G, 6A), Stuart Dallas (8G, 2A). I could go on. A lot of average players outscored him.
Now, as a top club, can you really justify an outlay of £40m upwards on a player who has scored five goals? I don't think so.
In reality, we may want even more for Neto moving forward. We are not getting a substantial fee for him unless he is getting double figures for goals and assists.
Who else is worth a lot in our squad? Maybe Kilman potentially, particularly with the England tax that could come with it.
A top club is not going to buy a defender from us because our players show none of the qualities that they look for. It's about pushing up, defending bravely, nicking in front of strikers etc. The truth is we don't even know ourselves if Kilman can do this at our level, never mind at a top club because he is so well protected.
Brighton sell Ben White for £50m because Arsenal knew he could play in the way they want. Now, he's obviously a good player but surely Kilman could get to that price or near to it. He's English, he's left footed (which is a positive) but we won't attract those bids because they don't know if Kilman can play that way.
We are struggling to sell Ruben Neves in a world where Kalvin Phillips is going for £55-60m to Manchester City.
I don't mind Phillips, he's quite good. However, he is not a patch on Neves as a footballer but he will command a massive fee because he has shown with Leeds he can play in a way that top clubs want. He can screen the defence in an attack-minded side. He can cover holes when the full-backs are up the pitch. He can set the tempo on his own from the deep position. Of course, he has the English tax but the reality is that Leeds are standing to benefit because they try to replicate what the big sides do and they will get a big fee as a result.
Staying with them, Raphinha has given them 6G, 9A and then 11G, 3A over two seasons. The result - they have a £50m player.
I was going to start a thread as this may take away from Vitinha but it was his move to PSG that reinforced this.
I'm not too upset that we didn't sign him because he didn't look great but he clearly is good as he's just won the Portuguese league and is going to PSG! So, you have to ask why didn't he look great? And it comes back to the style of play.
We had a £40m player in our hands but we didn't give him the platform to perform. That's a worry. It's also a collective failing of Shi, Sellars and Nuno.
I look at Morgan Gibbs-White and I see a player that could potentially be worth £40-50m if we get things right. I see Neto who could be worth the same. I see Podence who could potentially play at a higher level even if he doesn't have the ceiling of those two.
We have Silva who in theory should be progressing to become a £50m player minimum but he didn't score a goal. Again, I don't really blame him. None of our attacking players score. Are they all bad? I doubt it.
Ait-Nouri is another but again in the modern game it's likely to be his attacking output that convinces clubs to make the massive bid that we will need. He has two goals and three assists in 44 league games. He should be capable of so much more.
If that means giving less defensive responsibility, it has to happen.
It probably means no more back three, although I accept you can attack with a back three if you want but we need as many of these players on the pitch as possible.
If we have to sacrifice a few league positions, so what? Obviously, relegation would be a disaster but that's the worst case scenario but I actually have faith in our attacking players to make sure that wouldn't happen.
Even so, if it means coming 17th but playing attacking football it will be worthwhile. Leeds may be in the same boat as us when it comes to sell-to-buy but they're having a better summer than us because they have bigger assets to cash in on. We don't, so it becomes a cycle. No big sale means no big investment and things get worse and worse.
We need to embrace the fact we're about to become a selling club because that's our reality but it can still work but to do it successfully we need big sales and changing the way we play is pivotal to making that happen. Dortmund and Leipzig are probably the dream clubs to emulate long-term and guess what, they play all-out attacking football.
The likes of Kilman, Ait-Nouri, Neto, Gibbs-White and Silva are going to determine our future. They need to play in a front foot, attacking team to ensure we can progress in the short-term but also when we sell them.
(Apologies for the very long post & well done if you managed to read it all
Good well thought out post.Changing our style of play is the single most important thing we have to do. The potential knock-on effects are massive.
We have no money so the only way we’re going to ever progress is through sales. We need to sell big maybe every year to properly refresh the squad.
However playing the way we do is a massive hindrance to any good player we have.
Our attackers do not score goals. I mentioned before, Neto’s ‘amazing’ breakthrough season saw him score 5 goals and get 6 assists. This goal return was comfortably beaten by many players including the likes of Matheus Pereira (11G, 6A), Anwar El Ghazi (10G), Jack Harrison (8G, 8A), Bertrand Traore (7G, 6A), Stuart Dallas (8G, 2A). I could go on. A lot of average players outscored him.
Now, as a top club, can you really justify an outlay of £40m upwards on a player who has scored five goals? I don't think so.
In reality, we may want even more for Neto moving forward. We are not getting a substantial fee for him unless he is getting double figures for goals and assists.
Who else is worth a lot in our squad? Maybe Kilman potentially, particularly with the England tax that could come with it.
A top club is not going to buy a defender from us because our players show none of the qualities that they look for. It's about pushing up, defending bravely, nicking in front of strikers etc. The truth is we don't even know ourselves if Kilman can do this at our level, never mind at a top club because he is so well protected.
Brighton sell Ben White for £50m because Arsenal knew he could play in the way they want. Now, he's obviously a good player but surely Kilman could get to that price or near to it. He's English, he's left footed (which is a positive) but we won't attract those bids because they don't know if Kilman can play that way.
We are struggling to sell Ruben Neves in a world where Kalvin Phillips is going for £55-60m to Manchester City.
I don't mind Phillips, he's quite good. However, he is not a patch on Neves as a footballer but he will command a massive fee because he has shown with Leeds he can play in a way that top clubs want. He can screen the defence in an attack-minded side. He can cover holes when the full-backs are up the pitch. He can set the tempo on his own from the deep position. Of course, he has the English tax but the reality is that Leeds are standing to benefit because they try to replicate what the big sides do and they will get a big fee as a result.
Staying with them, Raphinha has given them 6G, 9A and then 11G, 3A over two seasons. The result - they have a £50m player.
I was going to start a thread as this may take away from Vitinha but it was his move to PSG that reinforced this.
I'm not too upset that we didn't sign him because he didn't look great but he clearly is good as he's just won the Portuguese league and is going to PSG! So, you have to ask why didn't he look great? And it comes back to the style of play.
We had a £40m player in our hands but we didn't give him the platform to perform. That's a worry. It's also a collective failing of Shi, Sellars and Nuno.
I look at Morgan Gibbs-White and I see a player that could potentially be worth £40-50m if we get things right. I see Neto who could be worth the same. I see Podence who could potentially play at a higher level even if he doesn't have the ceiling of those two.
We have Silva who in theory should be progressing to become a £50m player minimum but he didn't score a goal. Again, I don't really blame him. None of our attacking players score. Are they all bad? I doubt it.
Ait-Nouri is another but again in the modern game it's likely to be his attacking output that convinces clubs to make the massive bid that we will need. He has two goals and three assists in 44 league games. He should be capable of so much more.
If that means giving less defensive responsibility, it has to happen.
It probably means no more back three, although I accept you can attack with a back three if you want but we need as many of these players on the pitch as possible.
If we have to sacrifice a few league positions, so what? Obviously, relegation would be a disaster but that's the worst case scenario but I actually have faith in our attacking players to make sure that wouldn't happen.
Even so, if it means coming 17th but playing attacking football it will be worthwhile. Leeds may be in the same boat as us when it comes to sell-to-buy but they're having a better summer than us because they have bigger assets to cash in on. We don't, so it becomes a cycle. No big sale means no big investment and things get worse and worse.
We need to embrace the fact we're about to become a selling club because that's our reality but it can still work but to do it successfully we need big sales and changing the way we play is pivotal to making that happen. Dortmund and Leipzig are probably the dream clubs to emulate long-term and guess what, they play all-out attacking football.
The likes of Kilman, Ait-Nouri, Neto, Gibbs-White and Silva are going to determine our future. They need to play in a front foot, attacking team to ensure we can progress in the short-term but also when we sell them.
(Apologies for the very long post & well done if you managed to read it all
Yeah none of our CBs would get into any top Prem clubs, outside of Kilman, because they need to play deep with cover in front of them
Nuno bombed him completely randomly mid season.
Thank you for a very thoughtful post. My concern with what you propose is that attempting to beat the big boys at their own game with necessarily less resources is almost inevitably doomed to failure. There is a shedload of relevant predecent with other would-be challengers. What we are trying, and it may well ultimately fail, is something different.Changing our style of play is the single most important thing we have to do. The potential knock-on effects are massive.
We have no money so the only way we’re going to ever progress is through sales. We need to sell big maybe every year to properly refresh the squad.
However playing the way we do is a massive hindrance to any good player we have.
Our attackers do not score goals. I mentioned before, Neto’s ‘amazing’ breakthrough season saw him score 5 goals and get 6 assists. This goal return was comfortably beaten by many players including the likes of Matheus Pereira (11G, 6A), Anwar El Ghazi (10G), Jack Harrison (8G, 8A), Bertrand Traore (7G, 6A), Stuart Dallas (8G, 2A). I could go on. A lot of average players outscored him.
Now, as a top club, can you really justify an outlay of £40m upwards on a player who has scored five goals? I don't think so.
In reality, we may want even more for Neto moving forward. We are not getting a substantial fee for him unless he is getting double figures for goals and assists.
Who else is worth a lot in our squad? Maybe Kilman potentially, particularly with the England tax that could come with it.
A top club is not going to buy a defender from us because our players show none of the qualities that they look for. It's about pushing up, defending bravely, nicking in front of strikers etc. The truth is we don't even know ourselves if Kilman can do this at our level, never mind at a top club because he is so well protected.
Brighton sell Ben White for £50m because Arsenal knew he could play in the way they want. Now, he's obviously a good player but surely Kilman could get to that price or near to it. He's English, he's left footed (which is a positive) but we won't attract those bids because they don't know if Kilman can play that way.
We are struggling to sell Ruben Neves in a world where Kalvin Phillips is going for £55-60m to Manchester City.
I don't mind Phillips, he's quite good. However, he is not a patch on Neves as a footballer but he will command a massive fee because he has shown with Leeds he can play in a way that top clubs want. He can screen the defence in an attack-minded side. He can cover holes when the full-backs are up the pitch. He can set the tempo on his own from the deep position. Of course, he has the English tax but the reality is that Leeds are standing to benefit because they try to replicate what the big sides do and they will get a big fee as a result.
Staying with them, Raphinha has given them 6G, 9A and then 11G, 3A over two seasons. The result - they have a £50m player.
I was going to start a thread as this may take away from Vitinha but it was his move to PSG that reinforced this.
I'm not too upset that we didn't sign him because he didn't look great but he clearly is good as he's just won the Portuguese league and is going to PSG! So, you have to ask why didn't he look great? And it comes back to the style of play.
We had a £40m player in our hands but we didn't give him the platform to perform. That's a worry. It's also a collective failing of Shi, Sellars and Nuno.
I look at Morgan Gibbs-White and I see a player that could potentially be worth £40-50m if we get things right. I see Neto who could be worth the same. I see Podence who could potentially play at a higher level even if he doesn't have the ceiling of those two.
We have Silva who in theory should be progressing to become a £50m player minimum but he didn't score a goal. Again, I don't really blame him. None of our attacking players score. Are they all bad? I doubt it.
Ait-Nouri is another but again in the modern game it's likely to be his attacking output that convinces clubs to make the massive bid that we will need. He has two goals and three assists in 44 league games. He should be capable of so much more.
If that means giving less defensive responsibility, it has to happen.
It probably means no more back three, although I accept you can attack with a back three if you want but we need as many of these players on the pitch as possible.
If we have to sacrifice a few league positions, so what? Obviously, relegation would be a disaster but that's the worst case scenario but I actually have faith in our attacking players to make sure that wouldn't happen.
Even so, if it means coming 17th but playing attacking football it will be worthwhile. Leeds may be in the same boat as us when it comes to sell-to-buy but they're having a better summer than us because they have bigger assets to cash in on. We don't, so it becomes a cycle. No big sale means no big investment and things get worse and worse.
We need to embrace the fact we're about to become a selling club because that's our reality but it can still work but to do it successfully we need big sales and changing the way we play is pivotal to making that happen. Dortmund and Leipzig are probably the dream clubs to emulate long-term and guess what, they play all-out attacking football.
The likes of Kilman, Ait-Nouri, Neto, Gibbs-White and Silva are going to determine our future. They need to play in a front foot, attacking team to ensure we can progress in the short-term but also when we sell them.
(Apologies for the very long post & well done if you managed to read it all
It’s not revisionism at all, stone cold fact is that despite the team being awful, Max got a whopping total of 189 minutes in the last 14 league matches whilst also being linked to moves away in the summer before Bruno came in.
We just tried that with the fella who went to Arsenal, seems like he didn't fancy grasshoppers for a season. A season in Switzerland sounds pretty cool to me.
Changing our style of play is the single most important thing we have to do. The potential knock-on effects are massive.
We have no money so the only way we’re going to ever progress is through sales. We need to sell big maybe every year to properly refresh the squad.
However playing the way we do is a massive hindrance to any good player we have.
Our attackers do not score goals. I mentioned before, Neto’s ‘amazing’ breakthrough season saw him score 5 goals and get 6 assists. This goal return was comfortably beaten by many players including the likes of Matheus Pereira (11G, 6A), Anwar El Ghazi (10G), Jack Harrison (8G, 8A), Bertrand Traore (7G, 6A), Stuart Dallas (8G, 2A). I could go on. A lot of average players outscored him.
Now, as a top club, can you really justify an outlay of £40m upwards on a player who has scored five goals? I don't think so.
In reality, we may want even more for Neto moving forward. We are not getting a substantial fee for him unless he is getting double figures for goals and assists.
Who else is worth a lot in our squad? Maybe Kilman potentially, particularly with the England tax that could come with it.
A top club is not going to buy a defender from us because our players show none of the qualities that they look for. It's about pushing up, defending bravely, nicking in front of strikers etc. The truth is we don't even know ourselves if Kilman can do this at our level, never mind at a top club because he is so well protected.
Brighton sell Ben White for £50m because Arsenal knew he could play in the way they want. Now, he's obviously a good player but surely Kilman could get to that price or near to it. He's English, he's left footed (which is a positive) but we won't attract those bids because they don't know if Kilman can play that way.
We are struggling to sell Ruben Neves in a world where Kalvin Phillips is going for £55-60m to Manchester City.
I don't mind Phillips, he's quite good. However, he is not a patch on Neves as a footballer but he will command a massive fee because he has shown with Leeds he can play in a way that top clubs want. He can screen the defence in an attack-minded side. He can cover holes when the full-backs are up the pitch. He can set the tempo on his own from the deep position. Of course, he has the English tax but the reality is that Leeds are standing to benefit because they try to replicate what the big sides do and they will get a big fee as a result.
Staying with them, Raphinha has given them 6G, 9A and then 11G, 3A over two seasons. The result - they have a £50m player.
I was going to start a thread as this may take away from Vitinha but it was his move to PSG that reinforced this.
I'm not too upset that we didn't sign him because he didn't look great but he clearly is good as he's just won the Portuguese league and is going to PSG! So, you have to ask why didn't he look great? And it comes back to the style of play.
We had a £40m player in our hands but we didn't give him the platform to perform. That's a worry. It's also a collective failing of Shi, Sellars and Nuno.
I look at Morgan Gibbs-White and I see a player that could potentially be worth £40-50m if we get things right. I see Neto who could be worth the same. I see Podence who could potentially play at a higher level even if he doesn't have the ceiling of those two.
We have Silva who in theory should be progressing to become a £50m player minimum but he didn't score a goal. Again, I don't really blame him. None of our attacking players score. Are they all bad? I doubt it.
Ait-Nouri is another but again in the modern game it's likely to be his attacking output that convinces clubs to make the massive bid that we will need. He has two goals and three assists in 44 league games. He should be capable of so much more.
If that means giving less defensive responsibility, it has to happen.
It probably means no more back three, although I accept you can attack with a back three if you want but we need as many of these players on the pitch as possible.
If we have to sacrifice a few league positions, so what? Obviously, relegation would be a disaster but that's the worst case scenario but I actually have faith in our attacking players to make sure that wouldn't happen.
Even so, if it means coming 17th but playing attacking football it will be worthwhile. Leeds may be in the same boat as us when it comes to sell-to-buy but they're having a better summer than us because they have bigger assets to cash in on. We don't, so it becomes a cycle. No big sale means no big investment and things get worse and worse.
We need to embrace the fact we're about to become a selling club because that's our reality but it can still work but to do it successfully we need big sales and changing the way we play is pivotal to making that happen. Dortmund and Leipzig are probably the dream clubs to emulate long-term and guess what, they play all-out attacking football.
The likes of Kilman, Ait-Nouri, Neto, Gibbs-White and Silva are going to determine our future. They need to play in a front foot, attacking team to ensure we can progress in the short-term but also when we sell them.
(Apologies for the very long post & well done if you managed to read it all
Superb post, one of the best in many a month.Changing our style of play is the single most important thing we have to do. The potential knock-on effects are massive.
We have no money so the only way we’re going to ever progress is through sales. We need to sell big maybe every year to properly refresh the squad.
However playing the way we do is a massive hindrance to any good player we have.
Our attackers do not score goals. I mentioned before, Neto’s ‘amazing’ breakthrough season saw him score 5 goals and get 6 assists. This goal return was comfortably beaten by many players including the likes of Matheus Pereira (11G, 6A), Anwar El Ghazi (10G), Jack Harrison (8G, 8A), Bertrand Traore (7G, 6A), Stuart Dallas (8G, 2A). I could go on. A lot of average players outscored him.
Now, as a top club, can you really justify an outlay of £40m upwards on a player who has scored five goals? I don't think so.
In reality, we may want even more for Neto moving forward. We are not getting a substantial fee for him unless he is getting double figures for goals and assists.
Who else is worth a lot in our squad? Maybe Kilman potentially, particularly with the England tax that could come with it.
A top club is not going to buy a defender from us because our players show none of the qualities that they look for. It's about pushing up, defending bravely, nicking in front of strikers etc. The truth is we don't even know ourselves if Kilman can do this at our level, never mind at a top club because he is so well protected.
Brighton sell Ben White for £50m because Arsenal knew he could play in the way they want. Now, he's obviously a good player but surely Kilman could get to that price or near to it. He's English, he's left footed (which is a positive) but we won't attract those bids because they don't know if Kilman can play that way.
We are struggling to sell Ruben Neves in a world where Kalvin Phillips is going for £55-60m to Manchester City.
I don't mind Phillips, he's quite good. However, he is not a patch on Neves as a footballer but he will command a massive fee because he has shown with Leeds he can play in a way that top clubs want. He can screen the defence in an attack-minded side. He can cover holes when the full-backs are up the pitch. He can set the tempo on his own from the deep position. Of course, he has the English tax but the reality is that Leeds are standing to benefit because they try to replicate what the big sides do and they will get a big fee as a result.
Staying with them, Raphinha has given them 6G, 9A and then 11G, 3A over two seasons. The result - they have a £50m player.
I was going to start a thread as this may take away from Vitinha but it was his move to PSG that reinforced this.
I'm not too upset that we didn't sign him because he didn't look great but he clearly is good as he's just won the Portuguese league and is going to PSG! So, you have to ask why didn't he look great? And it comes back to the style of play.
We had a £40m player in our hands but we didn't give him the platform to perform. That's a worry. It's also a collective failing of Shi, Sellars and Nuno.
I look at Morgan Gibbs-White and I see a player that could potentially be worth £40-50m if we get things right. I see Neto who could be worth the same. I see Podence who could potentially play at a higher level even if he doesn't have the ceiling of those two.
We have Silva who in theory should be progressing to become a £50m player minimum but he didn't score a goal. Again, I don't really blame him. None of our attacking players score. Are they all bad? I doubt it.
Ait-Nouri is another but again in the modern game it's likely to be his attacking output that convinces clubs to make the massive bid that we will need. He has two goals and three assists in 44 league games. He should be capable of so much more.
If that means giving less defensive responsibility, it has to happen.
It probably means no more back three, although I accept you can attack with a back three if you want but we need as many of these players on the pitch as possible.
If we have to sacrifice a few league positions, so what? Obviously, relegation would be a disaster but that's the worst case scenario but I actually have faith in our attacking players to make sure that wouldn't happen.
Even so, if it means coming 17th but playing attacking football it will be worthwhile. Leeds may be in the same boat as us when it comes to sell-to-buy but they're having a better summer than us because they have bigger assets to cash in on. We don't, so it becomes a cycle. No big sale means no big investment and things get worse and worse.
We need to embrace the fact we're about to become a selling club because that's our reality but it can still work but to do it successfully we need big sales and changing the way we play is pivotal to making that happen. Dortmund and Leipzig are probably the dream clubs to emulate long-term and guess what, they play all-out attacking football.
The likes of Kilman, Ait-Nouri, Neto, Gibbs-White and Silva are going to determine our future. They need to play in a front foot, attacking team to ensure we can progress in the short-term but also when we sell them.
(Apologies for the very long post & well done if you managed to read it all
