Stadium Plans

[kiddywolves26]

I would imagine any drawings are already drawn up (employed an architect a few years back) and the application process wouldn’t take long as the club is already in consultation with the council in regards to the stadium plans.

It would make perfect sense to develop the stadium using money from the uefa2028 pot- UEFA loves legacy. And if we fail at that then I’m sure fosun sports would generate enough in shares, so maybe they could use that? No loans at all then

 

[wolvesjoe]

They've run the numbers on that and it doesn't make financial sense. They have an army of business analysts who will have assessed data you can't get your hands on.

The financial and football advantages are obvious. That is not why any stadium expansion has been put on hold. Only the
dim-witted would think that.

It is the extreme uncertainty that surrounds international economic and political relations, which makes any substantial investment
highly risky. Worst case scenarios that Fosun have to take account for are major sanctions against Chinese companies, a proper and deep
depression in the UK and elsewhere, which radically reduces families' purchasing power, and even the chaos of power cuts and popular unrest.

Against such a cataclysmic backdrop, Fosun's policy unfortunately makes perfect sense.

 

[LythamWolf]

3,000 posts on something unlikely to happen. They can’t even be bothered with the SE quadrant with the planning permission deadline rapidly approaching.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

3,000 posts on something unlikely to happen. They can’t even be bothered with the SE quadrant with the planning permission deadline rapidly approaching.

I did say after the recent statement that I can see the sense in not doing that if it doesn't work with remodelling the Steve Bull lower.

Fully accept that the most likely is that none of it is happening any time soon though.

 

[Berlin Wolf]

3,000 posts on something unlikely to happen. They can’t even be bothered with the SE quadrant with the planning permission deadline rapidly approaching.

Could well be the new plans, which include a 10k South Bank and re-profiling the Steve Bull Lower, have superseded the SE Quadrant temp stand plan.

 

[Lou Pine]

Could well be the new plans, which include a 10k South Bank and re-profiling the Steve Bull Lower, have superseded the SE Quadrant temp stand plan.

I’m not sure that you’re allowed to be optimistic on here.

 

[Bugsy911]

Ultimately even though its a long return on investment we will fall further behind other clubs who are increasing capacity and growing revenue with increased capacity.

Even more short sighted is the inability to bring in the next generation of fans due to us being sold out most games, live football is what the next generation need to be hooked on and we are way short on that front.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Agreed. But most of work internal so no planning for that part. Just the re profile of lower tier which should be a formality as it already exists. The roof profile as well if included.

The financial and football advantages are obvious. That is not why any stadium expansion has been put on hold. Only the
dim-witted would think that.

It is the extreme uncertainty that surrounds international economic and political relations, which makes any substantial investment
highly risky. Worst case scenarios that Fosun have to take account for are major sanctions against Chinese companies, a proper and deep
depression in the UK and elsewhere, which radically reduces families' purchasing power, and even the chaos of power cuts and popular unrest.

Against such a cataclysmic backdrop, Fosun's policy unfortunately makes perfect sense.

Wow. I think we swerved into a dystopian future there, but I think I agree, Fosun either are not allowed or don't want to invest in rebuilding Molineux.

They might be tempted if someone else pays a substantial sum towards it, but no-one wants to so given the risk/return, they could probably do better putting their money elsewhere.

 

[LythamWolf]

Could well be the new plans, which include a 10k South Bank and re-profiling the Steve Bull Lower, have superseded the SE Quadrant temp stand plan.

My wife has been nagging me for some time to put some shelves up in the lounge so I have now told her that I’m going to completely redecorate the room so the shelves will now be part of this new project. Unfortunately we don’t yet have the money for the full project so it’s been kicked into the long grass

 

[Olivergoldblack]

I wonder if they'll build the new Steve bull lower parallel and closer to the pitch and connect to the Stan cullis and south bank. And then later on demolish the upper tier of the Steve bull and build off the back off the new lower teir?
Can't see how they can connect a new lower teir to the existing Steve bull Upper teir. The rake angle would be really shallow and look odd, and there's 3 different angles of the Upper teir to connect to. Wouldn't make sense.

 

[Macman]

I wonder if they'll build the new Steve bull lower parallel and closer to the pitch and connect to the Stan cullis and south bank. And then later on demolish the upper tier of the Steve bull and build off the back off the new lower teir?
Can't see how they can connect a new lower teir to the existing Steve bull Upper teir. The rake angle would be really shallow and look odd, and there's 3 different angles of the Upper teir to connect to. Wouldn't make sense.

This is what ive been wondering. Build a brand new Steve Bull lower tier that will be part of the long-term rebuild, rather than bodge a new Steve Bull lower tier to gain the extra seats on the cheap. Sadly, and for the same reasons you mention re-the angle and rake of the existing upper tier, it will probably be the latter.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

This is what ive been wondering. Build a brand new Steve Bull lower tier that will be part of the long-term rebuild, rather than bodge a new Steve Bull lower tier to gain the extra seats on the cheap. Sadly, and for the same reasons you mention re-the angle and rake of the existing upper tier, it will probably be the latter.

That is what they said they were doing. The SB stand is in 2 pieces. Lower and upper.

 

[Timberwolf]

Don't disagree with Brum doing the Commonwealth games on the cheap and sustainably. Sheffield hosted a Student Games in the 90s and is still paying for the debt it took on.
Would've been good to get extra facilities for the population, like Manc did with the Velodrome. not sure if the new swimming pool etc is new or upgraded??
Lots of investment around Perry Barr for after the games, shows the city off, gives us something local to do, and taxpayers not stung for a decade. Guess the government could've helped and put their hands in their pockets?

You shouldn’t use the Student Games in Sheffield as an example. The issue wasn’t the initial cost which was just over £110m, but with onward financial mistakes and missteps, the loans were renegotiated four or five times so as a city we’ll have ended up paying back nearly £700m by the end date of 2024.
Then there is the city-wide investment since 1991. I moved to Sheffield for university in ‘92. As good a choice for ‘student reasons’ as it was, the city was a ****-hole with the traditional industries in drastic decline. 30 years later and it’s really quite strikingly modern, welcoming, friendly and developing into a commercial powerhouse. Quite a way from the levels of Manchester and Leeds but whatever we have, it all started with the Student Games.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I wonder if they'll build the new Steve bull lower parallel and closer to the pitch and connect to the Stan cullis and south bank. And then later on demolish the upper tier of the Steve bull and build off the back off the new lower teir?
Can't see how they can connect a new lower teir to the existing Steve bull Upper teir. The rake angle would be really shallow and look odd, and there's 3 different angles of the Upper teir to connect to. Wouldn't make sense.

The cost of rebuilding the upper tier would be prohobitive though and it's clearly structurally fine whatever some people think. The point of the rake is that it starts closer to the pitch and reaches the height of the bottom of the upper tier, infront of the boxes. Fair point on the angles, but surely not insurmountable. I honestly don't think an upper tier rebuild is on the cards now, but an increase in the concourses would solve some problems (not leg room obviously!)

 

[wolvesjoe]

 

[Coshamwolves]

In regards to timescales for the Steve bull and SB, plans have to be drawn up, reports commissioned (ie transport strategy, design and access statement) and planning applications submitted to the Council. If approved, tenders have to be drawn up for the approved works, then go out to tender and finally contracts signed for when works could begin.
If I have missed out a process that would increase the timescale. What I am saying this is not a quick process - don’t expect works to start soon, they haven’t even submitted a planning application yet.

Yes, any redevelopment now comes under the Molineux norther quarter regeneration scheme, where the Uni carry much more clout than the club, Things are now much more complex, which i think suits Shi and Fosun.
3 year planning consent was given for the temp stand in the other South Bank corner and we now have now less than a year left of it. They can`t even sort that out and i`ve heard the reason is because of the forthcoming Internationals that we`re staging. Its excuse after excuse. Nothing is happening.

 

[JohnB]

My wife has been nagging me for some time to put some shelves up in the lounge so I have now told her that I’m going to completely redecorate the room so the shelves will now be part of this new project. Unfortunately we don’t yet have the money for the full project so it’s been kicked into the long grass

Can’t afford a lawn mower either?

 

[stuj4z]

They should never have mentioned the South Bank expansion. That is never being done.
The Steve Bull renovation at the cost of £1m a year for 16 years seems to be a remarkably sensible idea and maybe a reason why the corner bit hasn't happened.
Portsmouth are doing a similar thing with 2 stands at Fratton Park right now, reprofiling and remodeling the existing stands to create more space and better experiences within the existing framework.
In that case for £11m

 

[JayStringer]

They should never have mentioned the South Bank expansion. That is never being done.
The Steve Bull renovation at the cost of £1m a year for 16 years seems to be a remarkably sensible idea and maybe a reason why the corner bit hasn't happened.
Portsmouth are doing a similar thing with 2 stands at Fratton Park right now, reprofiling and remodeling the existing stands to create more space and better experiences within the existing framework.
In that case for £11m

I think anything that Jones mentions about Molineux is more likely than not to happen, simply because he mentions it, and has previously given very little away, while a source of tension between Shi and Dalrymple was how much info LD gave out. Jeff will have signed off about Jones giving this info out. And while it IS a significant downscale from the "we want a fifty k stadium and might change the footprint" dream that was peddled a few years back, it does seem a more realistic and achievable approach. Agree with you fully re the Steve Bull remodel being sensible. I take from it all -just IMO- that they are closing in on a timeframe for this work.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

I think anything that Jones mentions about Molineux is more likely than not to happen, simply because he mentions it, and has previously given very little away, while a source of tension between Shi and Dalrymple was how much info LD gave out. Jeff will have signed off about Jones giving this info out. And while it IS a significant downscale from the "we want a fifty k stadium and might change the footprint" dream that was peddled a few years back, it does seem a more realistic and achievable approach. Agree with you fully re the Steve Bull remodel being sensible. I take from it all -just IMO- that they are closing in on a timeframe for this work.

Really? What decade do you think they are closing in on?

 

[JayStringer]

Really? What decade do you think they are closing in on?

Well...2028 is this decade...

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

They should never have mentioned the South Bank expansion. That is never being done.
The Steve Bull renovation at the cost of £1m a year for 16 years seems to be a remarkably sensible idea and maybe a reason why the corner bit hasn't happened.
Portsmouth are doing a similar thing with 2 stands at Fratton Park right now, reprofiling and remodeling the existing stands to create more space and better experiences within the existing framework.
In that case for £11m

Upgrading the southbank sounds much more cost effective.
16 mil to get 1100 extra seats or
30 mil to get 5000 extra seats.


No brainer.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Upgrading the southbank sounds much more cost effective.
16 mil to get 1100 extra seats or
30 mil to get 5000 extra seats.


No brainer.

Except that the Steve Bull work includes replacing the decrepit hospitality offering which will generate a lot more money. If you look at what Liverpool have done at Anfield, that’s what’s really driving a big increase in their matchday revenue, not the extra seats for regular fans.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Except that the Steve Bull work includes replacing the decrepit hospitality offering which will generate a lot more money. If you look at what Liverpool have done at Anfield, that’s what’s really driving a big increase in their matchday revenue, not the extra seats for regular fans.

Would it work for us though? It's all very well paying corporate rates to impress people with incredible winning football at Anfield. As I understand it they can't sell out WV1, there are empty boxes in the Steve Bull and most of the boxes at our end of the Billy Wright have players' families in. Is the market for expensive hospitality there in Wolverhampton?

 

[Stoichkov]

So that's where it becomes unavoidable to question Fosun, imo.

These are low level investments for a cash-rich company of Fosun's size. These are investments that increase
the equity value of the club. Why would Wolves be scratching around for good loans?

Remarks like this do push me towards thinking there is a Fosun plan to sell or dilute their holding position.

Because wolves and even Fosun sports are separate from Fosun

 

[WickedWolfie]

Would it work for us though? It's all very well paying corporate rates to impress people with incredible winning football at Anfield. As I understand it they can't sell out WV1, there are empty boxes in the Steve Bull and most of the boxes at our end of the Billy Wright have players' families in. Is the market for expensive hospitality there in Wolverhampton?

They can't sell out WV1 because they turned it into a poor replica of McDonalds while also raising prices..... The empty boxes in the Bully reflect how crap the current facilities are.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Would it work for us though? It's all very well paying corporate rates to impress people with incredible winning football at Anfield. As I understand it they can't sell out WV1, there are empty boxes in the Steve Bull and most of the boxes at our end of the Billy Wright have players' families in. Is the market for expensive hospitality there in Wolverhampton?

As @WickedWolfie says, the Steve Bull boxes are really not an attractive offering for any corporate or hospitality customer. Those in the BW and NB should be better, and frankly if they can’t make them attractive enough to get decent usage for hospitality then the club would be stupid to spend even more building new corporate in the Steve Bull. If it were my money being invested in Molineux, I’d make that the challenge to the commercial team - if you want the club to borrow millions for the Steve Bull, then show you can generate healthy income from the better facilities we already have.

 

[WickedWolfie]

As @WickedWolfie says, the Steve Bull boxes are really not an attractive offering for any corporate or hospitality customer. Those in the BW and NB should be better, and frankly if they can’t make them attractive enough to get decent usage for hospitality then the club would be stupid to spend even more building new corporate in the Steve Bull. If it were my money being invested in Molineux, I’d make that the challenge to the commercial team - if you want the club to borrow millions for the Steve Bull, then show you can generate healthy income from the better facilities we already have.

Oh, and if they can't we ought to get rid and bring in better replacements!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

As @WickedWolfie says, the Steve Bull boxes are really not an attractive offering for any corporate or hospitality customer. Those in the BW and NB should be better, and frankly if they can’t make them attractive enough to get decent usage for hospitality then the club would be stupid to spend even more building new corporate in the Steve Bull. If it were my money being invested in Molineux, I’d make that the challenge to the commercial team - if you want the club to borrow millions for the Steve Bull, then show you can generate healthy income from the better facilities we already have.

I don't really know about the facilities beyond second hand stuff. I've never been in a box at Wolves, or the NB bar. The impression I get though is that the BW boxes are bought by companies to host clients. I don't know how big the market is, but I suspect barely enough for what is there. WV1 seems to be more to do with individuals having a special day out. That's definitely a pretty limited market and massively overpriced from what I've seen. I imagine the Steve Bull stand hospitality is very run down if you look at the rest of the stand! Those boxes where your cut off from the atmosphere, watching over the heads of the away fans are a terrible idea. This makes a plan to rip them out, provide food and drink etc and then just let people sit in the prime seats is good. That's pretty much the same market as WV1 though.

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

I don't really know about the facilities beyond second hand stuff. I've never been in a box at Wolves, or the NB bar. The impression I get though is that the BW boxes are bought by companies to host clients. I don't know how big the market is, but I suspect barely enough for what is there. WV1 seems to be more to do with individuals having a special day out. That's definitely a pretty limited market and massively overpriced from what I've seen. I imagine the Steve Bull stand hospitality is very run down if you look at the rest of the stand! Those boxes where your cut off from the atmosphere, watching over the heads of the away fans are a terrible idea. This makes a plan to rip them out, provide food and drink etc and then just let people sit in the prime seats is good. That's pretty much the same market as WV1 though.

Me and my son won a day in a box in the Steve bull in our league 1 days. At half time we asked if we could go to our seats in the south bank.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I don't really know about the facilities beyond second hand stuff. I've never been in a box at Wolves, or the NB bar. The impression I get though is that the BW boxes are bought by companies to host clients. I don't know how big the market is, but I suspect barely enough for what is there. WV1 seems to be more to do with individuals having a special day out. That's definitely a pretty limited market and massively overpriced from what I've seen. I imagine the Steve Bull stand hospitality is very run down if you look at the rest of the stand! Those boxes where your cut off from the atmosphere, watching over the heads of the away fans are a terrible idea. This makes a plan to rip them out, provide food and drink etc and then just let people sit in the prime seats is good. That's pretty much the same market as WV1 though.

There is a sizeable market for corporate hospitality and it’s generally tied to the event more than the location. So if Wolves play Man Utd say, then a hospitality vendor should be able to market that easily. That’s very different from a company taking a box for the season, which as you say would be limited to firms in the area. The Steve Bull boxes are clearly not attractive for this market but WV1 and BW boxes should be fine. If they have not been able to market them successfully in the PL outside of the pandemic then something. Is wrong. Liverpool is hardly a better city for demand for such business but clearly Liverpool FC provides a greater draw for all their home games.

If the club can demonstrate demand for hospitality in the BW stand, then it should be possible to partner with a hospitality vendor(s) to have them commit to taking parts of a rebuilt Steve Bull offering for a number of years, thereby guaranteeing a certain amount of revenue for the club to help underpin the capital investment. If a vendor took a large share of the facilities for an extended period, then they could also be invited to help design the facilities to maximise its attractiveness to their clients.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

There is a sizeable market for corporate hospitality and it’s generally tied to the event more than the location. So if Wolves play Man Utd say, then a hospitality vendor should be able to market that easily. That’s very different from a company taking a box for the season, which as you say would be limited to firms in the area. The Steve Bull boxes are clearly not attractive for this market but WV1 and BW boxes should be fine. If they have not been able to market them successfully in the PL outside of the pandemic then something. Is wrong. Liverpool is hardly a better city for demand for such business but clearly Liverpool FC provides a greater draw for all their home games.

If the club can demonstrate demand for hospitality in the BW stand, then it should be possible to partner with a hospitality vendor(s) to have them commit to taking parts of a rebuilt Steve Bull offering for a number of years, thereby guaranteeing a certain amount of revenue for the club to help underpin the capital investment. If a vendor took a large share of the facilities for an extended period, then they could also be invited to help design the facilities to maximise its attractiveness to their clients.

Yes, well let's hope so. As I say, not my area, you'd imagine a company that had a big slice in Thomas Cook, who I think were the biggest sellers of PL hospitality packages might have some idea how to do this.

 

[Me Babbies]

I don't really know about the facilities beyond second hand stuff. I've never been in a box at Wolves, or the NB bar. The impression I get though is that the BW boxes are bought by companies to host clients. I don't know how big the market is, but I suspect barely enough for what is there. WV1 seems to be more to do with individuals having a special day out. That's definitely a pretty limited market and massively overpriced from what I've seen. I imagine the Steve Bull stand hospitality is very run down if you look at the rest of the stand! Those boxes where your cut off from the atmosphere, watching over the heads of the away fans are a terrible idea. This makes a plan to rip them out, provide food and drink etc and then just let people sit in the prime seats is good. That's pretty much the same market as WV1 though.

With the main difference being your sat higher up on the side of the pitch.
Generally for corporate your not wanting a sing-song so being behind the goals isn't the best. The current SBS boxes as you said are effectively like watching on TV as your behind the glass being abused by away fans, so hardly a place to bring high paying guests.
Really WV1 needs to be in the SBS

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

The financial and football advantages are obvious. That is not why any stadium expansion has been put on hold. Only the
dim-witted would think that.

It is the extreme uncertainty that surrounds international economic and political relations, which makes any substantial investment
highly risky. Worst case scenarios that Fosun have to take account for are major sanctions against Chinese companies, a proper and deep
depression in the UK and elsewhere, which radically reduces families' purchasing power, and even the chaos of power cuts and popular unrest.

Against such a cataclysmic backdrop, Fosun's policy unfortunately makes perfect sense.

That's part of it, but part of it is that the ROI just isn't high enough over short to medium term for an investment group to sanction taking on

 

[SanFranWolf]

It's good to see so much discussion on this topic again.

Can someone clarify what the club have said please - I think it's 'we have a 9 point plan but we have zero concrete plans to actually do anything' - do I have it right?

 

[lostwolf]

That's part of it, but part of it is that the ROI just isn't high enough over short to medium term for an investment group to sanction taking on

You're right there, no argument.

For those us who love the club (I'm including you here btw in case that gets lost), especially those who saw how we stalled in the 90s when there was an opportunity to take the Black Country and half the West Midlands thus establishing ourselves as a regular 35-40+k club, the opportunity being spurned here is frustrating. You're right, short- and medium-term the current policy makes sense, it's just a shame we have such prudent (I've never used that in the pejorative before) owners who clearly have little interest in the long term interests of the club.

 

[Minimalist]

You're right there, no argument.

For those us who love the club (I'm including you here btw in case that gets lost), especially those who saw how we stalled in the 90s when there was an opportunity to take the Black Country and half the West Midlands thus establishing ourselves as a regular 35-40+k club, the opportunity being spurned here is frustrating. You're right, short- and medium-term the current policy makes sense, it's just a shame we have such prudent (I've never used that in the pejorative before) owners who clearly have little interest in the long term interests of the club.

Could argue Morgan, with his development of the stadium and high investment in the academy, was a great owner for having a long term plan...
Didn’t make him much loved by fans though...

 

[lostwolf]

Could argue Morgan, with his development of the stadium and high investment in the academy, was a great owner for having a long term plan...
Didn’t make him much loved by fans though...

I mean, you could...

I think if you're compartmentalising and ignoring the team (!), then he was okay, he didn't saddle us with debt, built a stand (which I ****ing hate: who puts the luxury seats in the most atmospheric part of an end stand, the ****ing joker), and sold us to our currently revered owners.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Could argue Morgan, with his development of the stadium and high investment in the academy, was a great owner for having a long term plan...
Didn’t make him much loved by fans though...

Probably something to do with the double dip relegation, walking into the changing rooms post Liverpool defeat, etc.

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

Never knew the SB was build in 2 almost independent sections.

Looks like we do do the lower part first. Makes sense and we can move the away fans to the quadrant.