Oh Adama Traore!

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

What about the numerous matches he played where we didn't win? Where he achieved nothing at all? He was also key in those 3 early 0-1 defeats and the 0-2 against Brentford. A key factor in us having no end product, no goals, because he has close to zero actual end product. Remember earlier this season, some point pre-Xmas, commentators saying all of our goals had been scored with Adama off the field.

Selecting matches we lost where he didn't play seems real stat twisting! He had game after game at season start (and last season) and rarely does anything. Fine as a luxury player for a club who can afford the occasional passenger. All 9 teams who finished above us managed to do it without Adama. They didn't need him and neither do we.

What do you mean what about the matches we didn't win? I included them. 34 points from 21 games with Adama, although in fairness he didn't feature at all against Everton (H) so 31 points from 20 with Adama, 17 points from 17 without him.

So I wasn't twisting anything. I offered my opinion on why our results are so drastically different with and without him, which I believe is down to the way we can play.

My whole point was that he does do things, but because they aren't goals or assists you discount them.

You may point to injuries to others for the massive difference between our results with and without Traore, fair enough, your opinion. However, I believe we won tight games like Brentford, Southampton, Brighton, United etc. because we had him available to us. Since then, we've mainly come out the wrong side of those tight games and my opinion is that he's the main reason why.

 

[Contrarian]

People go on about Adama as tis star.

He's got 12months left on his deal. Let's see how many of these big clubs are actually interested in him.

I think he ends up at Leeds or Everton. He's no Better then us, if anything he's not good enough.

Might be a bit of "The missing man will save us", too. Wouldn't be the first player who improved simply by not playing! Isn't that how Dendonker became "Our Most Important Player"?

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

People go on about Adama as tis star.

He's got 12months left on his deal. Let's see how many of these big clubs are actually interested in him.

I think he ends up at Leeds or Everton. He's no Better then us, if anything he's not good enough.

It doesn't really matter what big clubs are after him. It's what he means to us.

If he is going, then hopefully Chiquinho can be the replacement but the reality is that, IMO, we have missed him massively. Whether he does well anywhere else is irrelevant.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

I'd agree, teams can't suffocate us with a high line or as big a press when they're one ball away from having a sprint dash against the fastest player on the planet.

He completely changes the dynamic, we don't have any other players who are 'quick'.

I would totally agree but apart from vs Fulham a couple of seasons ago I can’t think of many occasions where he has anticipated a through ball to run onto. He likes ball to feet, which he then controls, stops then tries to beat the opposition who have now got back into position. To be honest Chiquinho looks more direct.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

It doesn't really matter what big clubs are after him. It's what he means to us.

If he is going, then hopefully Chiquinho can be the replacement but the reality is that, IMO, we have missed him massively. Whether he does well anywhere else is irrelevant.

And I don't think he means very much. We didn't miss him when he played. I think we overpaid when we brought him and if we ever turned down a profit for him sombody needs sacking.

Chiq for me is already a much better player. He might not be to the extreme with his speed, power and dribbling but more importantly he's still a threat with that, but he can actually deliver crosses into the box that's threatening.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

And I don't think he means very much. We didn't miss him when he played. I think we overpaid when we brought him and if we ever turned down a profit for him sombody needs sacking.

Chiq for me is already a much better player. He might not be to the extreme with his speed, power and dribbling but more importantly he's still a threat with that, but he can actually deliver crosses into the box that's threatening.

Fair enough, the results suggest the complete opposite though.

 

[wolfslair]

Netos lost a yard of pace post-injury.

Podence - don't think I've ever seen him burn past anybody, doesn't take people on and run in behind that often - progressing us downfield, that said he's good with his feet and creating his own space.

Raul isn't quick.
RAN isn't massively quick and doesn't start with the ball too high up the field, so can't help us escape a suffocating press.

Podence and Neto are both very quick!

Raul is also quick, he has run past many players with the ball at his feet. Look at the winning goals against city in Adama’s only productive season in his career…. The goal against Liverpool and also Southampton. He needed to be “quick” for those goals.

Remove the adama blinkers that only he is “quick” in the squad and look objectively at those players rather than using Adama as the benchmark of what is “quick” and what isn’t.

Your arguement that Neto has lost a yard of pace is poor…. It is clear he isn’t close to fully fit judge him on next season when he has a preseason under his belt. Returning after a year out during a season is well known to be a massive challenge for a player.

He also was no slouch catching up with raul and getting to that pass ahead of the Liverpool defence, who none of whom are slow either.

Fall of his “quick” attributes adama is very wasteful when he gets key opportunities to help the team.
So it doesn’t all fall on others that his stats for assists are poor as so many of his crosses are frankly very easy for a keeper to deal as they are too slow and close to the keeper with or float away to nothingness.

Chiqinho is younger, far less experienced to senior football let alone the demands of English football and he he has a way better cross than adama and he is no slouch either.
For all people talk about losing Adama cost us points, there is not an ice cubes chance in hell adama plays a cross of any quality close to the ones that came in against Chelsea…..
Out of chiqinho or adama in the last second of the game needing to put a cross in to win a game, my money is on the £3m 22 year old and not adama.

Adama is only a badly torn hamstring affecting his speed away from being a busted flush and a waste of a squad place so quickness isn’t everything.

 

[Tojo the grass]

I would totally agree but apart from vs Fulham a couple of seasons ago I can’t think of many occasions where he has anticipated a through ball to run onto. He likes ball to feet, which he then controls, stops then tries to beat the opposition who have now got back into position. To be honest Chiquinho looks more direct.

One of the things I like about Chiquinho is his willingness to get into the penalty area; I think he should have featured a lot more last season than he did.

 

[arctic rime]

I have 3 premier league defenders as friends, all of them say Wolves are better team with him in the side and that his presence occupies more players and restricts their attacking intent.

Just a comment fwiw.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

Fair enough, the results suggest the complete opposite though.

That's because the whole team struggled. Statistically even the first half of the season we should've had form similar to the end.

Difference is we was getting results against the run of play.

We couldn't make it last, Podence was a bigger loss, players loss confidence, Kilman form dropped and so did João Moutinho. Going forward it was too predicable, nothing in behind, get the ball wide, overload the wide space to create a crossing position but then nobody was in the box.

 

[Chris H]

Don’t think your point is relevant.

A main argument people put up for years was that he helps the team, regardless of what his individual contribution is.

So this season we’ve had the perfect opportunity to check that, over a prolonged period so a big enough sample size.

34 points from 21 games with Traore involved.
17 points from 17 games without him.

Unfortunately for us it shows just how important he is, meaning those people were right. He brought so much to the team that couldn’t be measured in simple goals and assists, as we’ve seen.

Saying we scored more points whilst he was here seems a bit of an over simplification. He only started 9 games for us in the league this season and our best runs of form have generally been when he hasn’t started.

Of the 10 games he started we picked up 0.8ppg (8 points), of the 10 he was on the bench we picked up 2.3ppg (23 points) of the 18 he didn’t play (Everton at home + when he left to Barca) we picked up 1.11ppg (20 points).

Our best run of form (over 6 games) was actually as he left when we picked up 2.5ppg from 3 games he was on the bench and 3 he was gone. After that we had a few runs where we picked up 2.17ppg and the most he started of any of those was 4 games (we won 4 drew 1 lost 1, with 2 of the 4 wins being when he was on the bench).

Our best form came when Podence was in the team, not Traore and given we played with inside forwards when we played inverted both would come off the left meaning Podence would be the better option ahead of him.

The stats suggest his best role for us is off the bench which is what a lot of people have suggested. If that’s the case, you don’t pay top level wages for someone who isn’t a starter if you’re working to a budget.

I like Traore, when the football has been dull he’s the only player to consistently get you off your seat. However I’d suggest the way to fix that isn’t to go back to relying on Traore to run us up the pitch, it’s to fix the underlying issues and not need him to be our only outlet.

 

[wolfslair]

It doesn't really matter what big clubs are after him. It's what he means to us.

If he is going, then hopefully Chiquinho can be the replacement but the reality is that, IMO, we have missed him massively. Whether he does well anywhere else is irrelevant.

Chiqinho has produced more than Adama….

Hwang for all his sins, produced more than yet gets vitriolic levels of hate on this board.

Adama isn’t the fraction of the player people believe him to be on here because he gets them excited. His failure at Barca surrounded by better players in a poor Spanish league should tell anyone that he isn’t the player to break the bank for as he is just far too inconsistent and only had one good season for us.

 

[Contrarian]

What do you mean what about the matches we didn't win? I included them. 34 points from 21 games with Adama, although in fairness he didn't feature at all against Everton (H) so 31 points from 20 with Adama, 17 points from 17 without him.

So I wasn't twisting anything. I offered my opinion on why our results are so drastically different with and without him, which I believe is down to the way we can play.

My whole point was that he does do things, but because they aren't goals or assists you discount them.

You may point to injuries to others for the massive difference between our results with and without Traore, fair enough, your opinion. However, I believe we won tight games like Brentford, Southampton, Brighton, United etc. because we had him available to us. Since then, we've mainly come out the wrong side of those tight games and my opinion is that he's the main reason why.

Agreed, we could hardly do worse in the last third of the season and he would have been a good option to have. But we may have been a bigger mess sooner if we'd carried on how we were at season start, being the definition of "no end product".

And it hardly matters anyway when he wanted to leave.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Saying we scored more points whilst he was here seems a bit of an over simplification. He only started 9 games for us in the league this season and our best runs of form have generally been when he hasn’t started.

Of the 10 games he started we picked up 0.8ppg (8 points), of the 10 he was on the bench we picked up 2.3ppg (23 points) of the 18 he didn’t play (Everton at home + when he left to Barca) we picked up 1.11ppg (20 points).

Our best run of form (over 6 games) was actually as he left when we picked up 2.5ppg from 3 games he was on the bench and 3 he was gone. After that we had a few runs where we picked up 2.17ppg and the most he started of any of those was 4 games (we won 4 drew 1 lost 1, with 2 of the 4 wins being when he was on the bench).

Our best form came when Podence was in the team, not Traore and given we played with inside forwards when we played inverted both would come off the left meaning Podence would be the better option ahead of him.

The stats suggest his best role for us is off the bench which is what a lot of people have suggested. If that’s the case, you don’t pay top level wages for someone who isn’t a starter if you’re working to a budget.

I like Traore, when the football has been dull he’s the only player to consistently get you off your seat. However I’d suggest the way to fix that isn’t to go back to relying on Traore to run us up the pitch, it’s to fix the underlying issues and not need him to be our only outlet.

There is little doubt in my mind that the injuries to Neves, Podence, Semedo and Kilman were more impactful on our form than Traore leaving. It’s true that we lost an option which would have helped when he went to Barca, but had we kept those other players fit, we would likely have qualified for Europe in some capacity.

 

[Chris H]

There is little doubt in my mind that the injuries to Neves, Podence, Semedo and Kilman were more impactful on our form than Traore leaving. It’s true that we lost an option which would have helped when he went to Barca, but had we kept those other players fit, we would likely have qualified for Europe in some capacity.

@WeAreTheWolvesII is right when he says that keeping him could only have been a good thing. He’d not have made us worse would he, even if he didn’t positively influence things.

Going forward though, relying on Traore as our only outlet shouldn’t be what we revert to, it should be fixing the underlying issues in our squad. If Traore is part of that squad (but perhaps not our first XI as the stats seem to suggest) then great, but bringing him back in and giving him top earner status doesn’t fix the issues that have been there for 2 years including the majority of that time that he was with us.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

There is little doubt in my mind that the injuries to Neves, Podence, Semedo and Kilman were more impactful on our form than Traore leaving. It’s true that we lost an option which would have helped when he went to Barca, but had we kept those other players fit, we would likely have qualified for Europe in some capacity.

Maybe we should've played Chiq more.

Was we ever really good enough for European football?

When we was winning it was more smash and grab. SA have a worldwide then us dominating teams.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Maybe we should've played Chiq more.

Was we ever really good enough for European football?

When we was winning it was more smash and grab. SA have a worldwide then us dominating teams.

Before those injuries, we were looking solid at the back, and starting to increase our goal scoring rate. Other teams around us like Leicester were hardly setting the league on fire, so while I don’t think we would have been fighting for a CL spot come the final week, I do think we’d have been in the mix with Utd and West Ham for Europa League.

Agree on Chiq, for the exact same reason Traore would have been useful to have on the bench.

To be fair, when Semedo was playing alongside Trincao, with Kilman behind, we were getting some nice attacking play on the right. Semedo was a big loss going forward, Kilman at the back with his growing confidence carrying the ball forward. Jonny looked to have Semedo covered when he came back firing, as did Boly for Kilman when he appeared back to his best, but it didn’t work as a unit as well as it had before the enforced change in players.

Losing Podence was just as important, although Neto gradually started to regain his form as the season drew to a close. Again we were damned unlucky to lose him so early against Liverpool, when he was running them ragged.

For fairly obvious reasons, losing Neves and then having him back but not at his best, really added to the mess. Any team losing a player of his quality and importance would have struggled to adapt.

But, back on topic. In hindsight letting Traore go took away a key option when we needed to mix things up, and yes Chiq perhaps should have been used more in his absence.

 

[WickedWolfie]

You wouldn't, because you only think stats are revelant to your side of the argument. Are you trying to tell me the only factor in our form slump was Adama leaving? So Saiss and Coady dropping in form and injuries to Neves, Semedo, Podence and Kilman had nothing to do with it?

Let's face it, he isnt worth a big contract, his output proves that. He doesn't add goal contributions. He never really has in his time here either even in his best season. Even players who have been as ineffective as Trincao and Hwang have bettered his output here, and Chiquinho has been a lot more effective in his few appearances.

I don't necessarily agree your whole argument, and clearly rate Adama more than you do, but l absolutely agree with your first para. In a situation where there have been multiple variations there can be no clear cause and effect.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Adama has an xG of 3 and xA of 2 this season for us. 1 goal and 0 assists.

Slightly harsh given that several sitters which he set up were missed.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Stats bloody hell indeed as you could twist what you said to rightly state we lost 5 of the first 7 without Traore (inc Norwich). I’d say that was falling of a cliff immediately when compared to 5 wins, 1 draw & 1 defeat in Traore’s last seven games!!

Of course those injuries had an impact but we regularly came on the good side of tight games when Traore played a part. Even as a sub he was key to wins over United, Southampton, Brighton & Brentford.

As soon as he goes we lose all those tight games - Burnley, Newcastle, Norwich, Arsenal, West Ham.

Many of those included second half goals as well.

My theory is the longer the game went on we would be pinned back or under more pressure than usual and concede. Traore gave us an outlet and meant in the second half when the game naturally becomes more stretched, we actually had someone to do something. Giving him away to Barcelona changed the dynamic of our team massively.

Balanced.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

Slightly harsh given that several sitters which he set up were missed.

I can't remember any of these sitters.

 

[OLDGOLD]

I have 3 premier league defenders as friends, all of them say Wolves are better team with him in the side and that his presence occupies more players and restricts their attacking intent.

Just a comment fwiw.

Yeah, well Coady, Saiss and Boly would say that wouldn't they,

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

I have 3 premier league defenders as friends, all of them say Wolves are better team with him in the side and that his presence occupies more players and restricts their attacking intent.

Just a comment fwiw.

Now hang on. Don't be bringing Pro players views in here! It ruins people's arguments.....
Btw, i said exactly the same about him.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

What do you mean what about the matches we didn't win? I included them. 34 points from 21 games with Adama, although in fairness he didn't feature at all against Everton (H) so 31 points from 20 with Adama, 17 points from 17 without him.

So I wasn't twisting anything. I offered my opinion on why our results are so drastically different with and without him, which I believe is down to the way we can play.

My whole point was that he does do things, but because they aren't goals or assists you discount them.

You may point to injuries to others for the massive difference between our results with and without Traore, fair enough, your opinion. However, I believe we won tight games like Brentford, Southampton, Brighton, United etc. because we had him available to us. Since then, we've mainly come out the wrong side of those tight games and my opinion is that he's the main reason why.

That's stat twisting of the highest order. Adama played 20 times for Wolves this season, not 21. We accrued 31 points with him playing, not 34.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

That's stat twisting of the highest order. Adama played 20 times for Wolves this season, not 21. We accrued 31 points with him playing, not 34.

Which I said in the post you highlighted lol...

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

The Adama debate is almost like a political debate now where it’s either far left or far right and not enough down the middle.

The reason our season went downhill after Xmas wasn’t solely down to Adama going to Barca in the same way the points haul before he went wasn’t solely down to him either.

He’s an enigma. On his day he’s easily the most exciting player I’ve seen in a wolves shirt (and by some distance!), unfortunately those days are few and far between.

To add some context I was devastated when Bully had to retire, devastated when Robbie Keane left, saddened when Jota left and the idea of Neves going makes my eyes sting. however when Adama goes I think I’ll go “oh well, never mind”

 

[wolfslair]

The Adama debate is almost like a political debate now where it’s either far left or far right and not enough down the middle.

The reason our season went downhill after Xmas wasn’t solely down to Adama going to Barca in the same way the points haul before he went wasn’t solely down to him either.

He’s an enigma. On his day he’s easily the most exciting player I’ve seen in a wolves shirt (and by some distance!), unfortunately those days are few and far between.

To add some context I was devastated when Bully had to retire, devastated when Robbie Keane left, saddened when Jota left and the idea of Neves going makes my eyes sting. however when Adama goes I think I’ll go “oh well, never mind”

And in one post the adama debate is well summed up!!

 

[Contrarian]

The Adama debate is almost like a political debate now where it’s either far left or far right and not enough down the middle.

The reason our season went downhill after Xmas wasn’t solely down to Adama going to Barca in the same way the points haul before he went wasn’t solely down to him either.

He’s an enigma. On his day he’s easily the most exciting player I’ve seen in a wolves shirt (and by some distance!), unfortunately those days are few and far between.

To add some context I was devastated when Bully had to retire, devastated when Robbie Keane left, saddened when Jota left and the idea of Neves going makes my eyes sting. however when Adama goes I think I’ll go “oh well, never mind”

99.99% sure that is exactly what he will do elsewhere. Will have days when he astounds, followed by lots of nothing, other than demonstrating a total lack of awareness of what's going on around him. Whichever club he is at, he will polarise the fans, while neutrals go "but he's great to watch", as all they see are the cherry-picked highlights.

The main problem for me, is that Traore's finishing is as shockingly bad for a professional footballer, as Hwangs control is. Even some of his classic goals, he scuffed it really and was lucky it crept in nowhere near where he was aiming.

Anyway, I literally *have* to disagree as I'm in the middle on Traore.

 

[The Clock]

I’ve been critical of Traore because he frustrates me.
But stats aren’t everything.
Regardless of the money generally floating around it is an entertainment business.
For me, despite my frustrations, Traore has done something that I can’t really remember any Wolves player doing for donkeys years.
Just by being there he has raised expectations. He’s got people instantly to the edge of their seats, he’s provided thrills and entertainment.
I’d be happy to see him do the same again for Wolves.
More entertaining than the predictable dross of the past 3 months

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Which I said in the post you highlighted lol...

Fair enough. Another stat here, 17 goals in 20 matches with Adama (although we scored most of them with him getting splinters in his ****) and 21 goals without Adama.

There are no stats that back up the idea we were better with Adama, only opinions that we were.

The stats all point to lots of running and penises for toes.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

99.99% sure that is exactly what he will do elsewhere. Will have days when he astounds, followed by lots of nothing, other than demonstrating a total lack of awareness of what's going on around him. Whichever club he is at, he will polarise the fans, while neutrals go "but he's great to watch", as all they see are the cherry-picked highlights.

The main problem for me, is that Traore's finishing is as shockingly bad for a professional footballer, as Hwangs control is. Even some of his classic goals, he scuffed it really and was lucky it crept in nowhere near where he was aiming.

Anyway, I literally *have* to disagree as I'm in the middle on Traore.

Pretty much my feeling on him.

It’s a cliche but for me he just doesn’t have a football brain. Both Bruno and Nuno seem to constantly be telling him where he should or shouldn’t be. Lacks awareness and intelligent running off the ball. At his age now I’m not sure anyone can coach those attributes into his game.

An aside but the amount of times a player gets the ball and looks at him to make a run so they can pass it into space for him to run onto, only for him to stand still frustrates the living hell out of me. Without the ball he uses his exceptional pace woefully. Far too static.

 

[JadeWolf]

Our form after Traore moved was much worse but I don’t think you can really say that was because he left. Injuries to Neves, Semedo, Kilman and Podence were more significant, as well as poor team selections and tactics.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Pretty much my feeling on him.

It’s a cliche but for me he just doesn’t have a football brain. Both Bruno and Nuno seem to constantly be telling him where he should or shouldn’t be. Lacks awareness and intelligent running off the ball. At his age now I’m not sure anyone can coach those attributes into his game.

An aside but the amount of times a player gets the ball and looks at him to make a run so they can pass it into space for him to run onto, only for him to stand still frustrates the living hell out of me. Without the ball he uses his exceptional pace woefully. Far too static.

And the other players must get fed up or resentful with his lack of awareness. They’re not blind. The PL is no place for passengers…….every player has to pull his weight for the team.

Also, when Bruno is choosing the team or about to bring on a sub, he shouldn’t have to wonder will Adama be a wise choice or instead go with somebody who is consistent. He should be able to expect that every player will give 100%. …….but with Adama there’s always a doubt.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

With Traore I will say again I mainly judge by what the opposition do to counter us. Adama would mostly have two or three players on him. Often they would be fouling him to try to stop him. If he was as poor as some make out the oppos would not need to bother.
]If we could not make use of his play as a tactic then there is something wrong with our coaching for a match.
Also dont forget one more thing if you have a player who is rapid you need other players to be good enough and pacey enough to get iinto good positions to be effective.

 

[Wolf316]

And the other players must get fed up or resentful with his lack of awareness. They’re not blind. The PL is no place for passengers…….every player has to pull his weight for the team.

Also, when Bruno is choosing the team or about to bring on a sub, he shouldn’t have to wonder will Adama be a wise choice or instead go with somebody who is consistent. He should be able to expect that every player will give 100%. …….but with Adama there’s always a doubt.

What a load of nonsense. For all his faults he always gives 100% and pulls his weight. Other players get resentful? Did you see the message our Captain sent him when he went on loan? What might make players resentful is liking a Twitter post slagging off one of their teammates.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Before those injuries, we were looking solid at the back, and starting to increase our goal scoring rate. Other teams around us like Leicester were hardly setting the league on fire, so while I don’t think we would have been fighting for a CL spot come the final week, I do think we’d have been in the mix with Utd and West Ham for Europa League.

Agree on Chiq, for the exact same reason Traore would have been useful to have on the bench.

To be fair, when Semedo was playing alongside Trincao, with Kilman behind, we were getting some nice attacking play on the right. Semedo was a big loss going forward, Kilman at the back with his growing confidence carrying the ball forward. Jonny looked to have Semedo covered when he came back firing, as did Boly for Kilman when he appeared back to his best, but it didn’t work as a unit as well as it had before the enforced change in players.

Losing Podence was just as important, although Neto gradually started to regain his form as the season drew to a close. Again we were damned unlucky to lose him so early against Liverpool, when he was running them ragged.

For fairly obvious reasons, losing Neves and then having him back but not at his best, really added to the mess. Any team losing a player of his quality and importance would have struggled to adapt.

But, back on topic. In hindsight letting Traore go took away a key option when we needed to mix things up, and yes Chiq perhaps should have been used more in his absence.

We weren't that solid at the back though outside of Sa, our defence early in the year was a myth as i pointed out after Leicester game and got panned. We gave up way to many big chances

 

[Sussex Wolf]

We weren't that solid at the back though outside of Sa, our defence early in the year was a myth as i pointed out after Leicester game and got panned. We gave up way to many big chances

Sky comms at the time talked about how few attempts on goal against us were happening inside our box. Our defence at the time was one of the best in England, statistically and by independent observation. I agree that Sa was a big part of that, but as it’s been shown in more recent times, he’s not a super hero. If the defence ahead of him allows players free headers inside the box or unchallenged shots outside, he lets some in like any decent keeper would. In the weeks since Kilman’s form dropped off even before his injury, I lost count of the number of times it was commented that our defence looked shaky, comments which were relatively limited before then.

So for me, we were solid at the back by any objective definition. We weren’t later in the season, and the same keeper played almost every game throughout. It actually started to fall apart when Saiss went to Afcon. He wasn’t the same when he returned, and neither was our defence.

Defensively, Wolves have never had it so good

Wolves don't score, but they don't concede either, and are one of the hardest teams to beat in Europe - that should be celebrated

theathletic.com

Quote from that article back in January…

The three centre-backs of Saiss, Coady and Maximilian Kilman have started every league game this season, as has new goalkeeper Jose Sa behind them.

Without Saiss last weekend, for the 3-0 home win over Sheffield United in the FA Cup, Wolves looked more vulnerable at the back against a side in the bottom half of the Championship than they had done against either Liverpool and Manchester City, allowing three or four clear-cut chances. Fernando Marcal filled in for the first half, then Leander Dendoncker the second. Both are competent defenders, but the rhythm, the synchronisation and the near-flawless positioning of Lage’s ever-present first-choice trio was gone.

 

[lostwolf]

Traore, like Jota and Neves, is too good for us at this point in time. Trust me, he'll eventually be used as the weapon he is at some top club and people will wonder why Boro, Villa and us didn't: you need a proper centre forward or two with him and then you'll reep the benefits.

That said, I really like what I've seen of Chiq', I reckon he could be some player for us, better than Traore in our situation, and with Neto and Pod (possibly RAN too) we're doing very well in those wide attacking positions.

IT'S THE MIDFIELD STOOPID. Yes we've got some class players there but not the right combination for us, they're all too defensively minded.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Traore, like Jota and Neves, is too good for us at this point in time. Trust me, he'll eventually be used as the weapon he is at some top club and people will wonder why Boro, Villa and us didn't: you need a proper centre forward or two with him and then you'll reep the benefits.

That said, I really like what I've seen of Chiq', I reckon he could be some player for us, better than Traore in our situation, and with Neto and Pod (possibly RAN too) we're doing very well in those wide attacking positions.

IT'S THE MIDFIELD STOOPID. Yes we've got some class players there but not the right combination for us, they're all too defensively minded.

Totally disagree on Traore..doesn't compare Jota n neves at all.....if anybody had offered anywhere near a decent fee for him over the last 3 season we would have sold him.....they didn't so we are left trying to scrape 15/18m for him , more or less what we paid....

 

[lostwolf]

Totally disagree on Traore..doesn't compare Jota n neves at all.....if anybody had offered anywhere near a decent fee for him over the last 3 season we would have sold him.....they didn't so we are left trying to scrape 15/18m for him , more or less what we paid....

That's my point. People don't see him as on a par. We're scraping that money because we leant him to the biggest club in the world, in a shady deal that saw us take a crap player in exchange, who had Dembele coming back: that's why he's flopped, not because of any fault of his own...