View Full Version : It's the fans fault - part 12
Bumbamuffin
28-03-2006, 08:44
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/football/tm_objectid=16870150%26method=full%26siteid=50002% 26headline=cort%2dcalls%2don%2dfans%2dto%2dplay%2d their%2dpart-name_page.html
"we know the fans do get on our backs,sometimes early on in the game"
It must be tough for you Carl.Here's an idea though mate,try to inject some passion from the off - like Cardiff - to actually lift the fans.
Not to worry though, half of you will be playing in front of division 3 crowds next season ,where you belong ,without the pressure.Hope you like the reduction in wages this comes with too.
PREM.L.L
28-03-2006, 08:50
6 of one half dozen of the other imo. Were eachothers worst enemy it seems.
"I wouldn't say the fans affect me."
"We've only got ourselves to blame"
Not exactly saying its the fans fault is he?
Bumbamuffin
28-03-2006, 08:57
"I wouldn't say the fans affect me."
"We've only got ourselves to blame"
Not exactly saying its the fans fault is he?
Then why even make the comments re. the crowd? I'm just sick and tired of seeing these comments from the players & manager in the press-particularly when 12k people have renewed their s/tickets amidst another awful season.If they cannot handle whatever 'pressure' playing at Molineux brings,then they can $$$$$ off to Rushden & Diamonds and play for a fraction of their current wage.
The Bear
28-03-2006, 09:32
I completely agree with him. People don't realise what effect they can have on a players performance whether they deserve to be moaned at or not.
Bumbamuffin
28-03-2006, 09:38
I completely agree with him. People don't realise what effect they can have on a players performance whether they deserve to be moaned at or not.
I'd agree with you if it was Wolves fans alone that are like this.But this is part & parcel of football-fans everywhere demand what they would consider success.It's laughable as far as I'm concerned.Players continually ask more from the Wolves fans but it appears to be such a sensitive issue when the reverse happens and fans complain at the lack of player performance.
On a seperate note,when he makes the comment re. the fans expecting us to go up as champions,he need only look at the bullish comments from the manager pre-season to understand why expectation levels were so high.
I think what he was saying was that he can handle the pressure because he's old and experienced but it may effect some of the younger, less experienced lads. Some of younger players are teenagers - if you think youngsters like Mark Davies should $$$$$ off to Rushden & Diamonds if they can't handle the pressure then fair enough, you pay your money, but I think that's crazy.
And if you think that being booed onto the pitch isn't going to have any effect on Kennedy's game, regardless of how much he earns, then fair enough again, but I also think that's crazy.
Bumbamuffin
28-03-2006, 09:58
I think what he was saying was that he can handle the pressure because he's old and experienced but it may effect some of the younger, less experienced lads. Some of younger players are teenagers - if you think youngsters like Mark Davies should $$$$$ off to Rushden & Diamonds if they can't handle the pressure then fair enough, you pay your money, but I think that's crazy.
And if you think that being booed onto the pitch isn't going to have any effect on Kennedy's game, regardless of how much he earns, then fair enough again, but I also think that's crazy.
Davies won't have to $$$$$ off to Rushden & Diamonds because IMO he will develop into a top player.Part of this will involve handling pressure/expectation like top players do.His performances have been excellent this season-especially for a teenager and he plays in front of the same crowd.We need winners at this club,not shrinking violets who continually use things such as the crowd to help justify below par performances.We currently IMO have too many of the latter.
As for the booing of Kennedy,I completely agree but every crowd across the country has its favourites and it's scapegoats.Whilst not ideal,this is part & parcel of football.I just don't think our players are mentally strong enough to embrace the pressure involved.
I can't think of a time when Wolves have been booed and didn't deserve it. I'm sure Corty and the rest are happy to receive our cheers and encouragement, or would he rather we just didn't care?
Del Woppio
28-03-2006, 10:05
By and large this season, the Wolves fans have been absolutely $$$$e. One occassion springs to mind, where the Northbank started some ironic cheering, which turned to real roaring, and we scored (1st goal against Luton). That proved what can happen when we lift the players, but we havent done it any where near often enough. We have relied on the players to lift the fans, which again, hasn't happened anywhere near often enough. The atmosphere at the mol has been so so flat at times this season, and yes, there are many contributary factors, of which, we (as a collective) are one. We have a responsibilty, and we havent fulfilled our side of the bargain. And yes, I know nobody else has either, but that doesn't make it right. If I wasn't a Wolves fan, I wouldn't want to play for us if I'd seen a game. The stick Kennedy got was extreme, Clarke perhaps deserved, but Cort, our top fricking scorer, getting jeered off the pitch against Stoke? Mark Kennedy having to run half the length of the pitch to pat him on the back of the knees and comfort him (i can just imagine what he said - 'ignore the $$$$ers') !!
It's been a $$$$ season from top to bottom, and we've got to accept our fair share of the blame.
We need winners at this club,not shrinking violets. I just don't think our players are mentally strong enough to embrace the pressure involved.
I agree with you. We haven't got enough leaders with big balls. But what are we going to do? We can't just replace them all. Sitting there booing our shrinking violets isn't going to get us promoted is it? I don't like supporting a team of softies any more than you do but that's the reality we have to deal with and we have to do whatever we can to maximise our chances.
PREM.L.L
28-03-2006, 10:17
"The stick Kennedy got was extreme, Clarke perhaps deserved, but Cort, our top fricking scorer, getting jeered off the pitch against Stoke? Mark Kennedy having to run half the length of the pitch to pat him on the back of the knees and comfort him (i can just imagine what he said - 'ignore the $$$$ers') !!"
Didn't know that. That's a $$$$ing joke.
I've no problem with collective booing of the team at the halftime and/or fulltime whistle.
What I do feel is counter productive is the booing of individuals during the course of the match. Or even the booing of a player as he is coming off the bench to come onto the field of play. We're involved in a game that the players want to win and the fans want to win. What help does it give the team/individual when their every touch is being booed?
I just feel at times that we play too much into the oppositions hands on this score. Plus at times I find it embarrassing to hear players being booed when they have yet to even enter the field of play!!
westlyNTR
28-03-2006, 10:25
By and large this season, the Wolves fans have been absolutely $$$$e. One occassion springs to mind, where the Northbank started some ironic cheering, which turned to real roaring, and we scored (1st goal against Luton). blah, blah....blah...It's been a $$$$ season from top to bottom, and we've got to accept our fair share of the blame.
The atmosphere against C Palace was fantastic.
It was a great game.
Lescott had a real battle on against AJ which he won.
I thought the whole season was going to be like that.
Bumbamuffin
28-03-2006, 10:32
I agree with you. We haven't got enough leaders with big balls. But what are we going to do? We can't just replace them all. Sitting there booing our shrinking violets isn't going to get us promoted is it? I don't like supporting a team of softies any more than you do but that's the reality we have to deal with and we have to do whatever we can to maximise our chances.
Fair comment but I just don't agree with the sentiment that the fans have to share a large part of the blame.I believe that this really is over hyped.Hoddle spoke pre-season about acknowledging the pressure and the players embracing it.I'm afraid they haven't and their 'share' of the blame is far,far higher than the fans'.
My take on the Sheff Weds game was this.We were one down at half time but came out to an ok reception(certainly not negative) and equalised early on.The fans then were relatively positive as they sensed a win.The team then capitulated and,yes, things such as the booing of Kennedy began which was wrong.However,the caving in of the players when we were chasing the win annoys me.They are just too weak mentally and this is the real issue.I'm not sure changing the fans would alter this,they don't seem able to handle the pressure of the situation surrounding the promotion chase.
Templeton Peck
28-03-2006, 10:51
Davies won't have to $$$$$ off to Rushden & Diamonds because IMO he will develop into a top player.Part of this will involve handling pressure/expectation like top players do.His performances have been excellent this season-especially for a teenager and he plays in front of the same crowd.We need winners at this club,not shrinking violets who continually use things such as the crowd to help justify below par performances.We currently IMO have too many of the latter.
As for the booing of Kennedy,I completely agree but every crowd across the country has its favourites and it's scapegoats.Whilst not ideal,this is part & parcel of football.I just don't think our players are mentally strong enough to embrace the pressure involved.
Top post. I'd like to expand on that but I can't. All I will say is that we've had this nonsense for years now and the only way forward is for Wolves to play a season behind closed doors and promotion will be a formality.
wolf of sedgley
28-03-2006, 11:13
The atmosphere against C Palace was fantastic.
It was a great game.
Lescott had a real battle on against AJ which he won.
I thought the whole season was going to be like that.
Yep the wolves fans started off well- when the games were half interesting. Hoddle soon put an end to that with his dire tactics. There is nothing to get excited about. The atomsphere for the most part has been $$$$.
PREM.L.L
28-03-2006, 11:20
Remember watching a programme about Heros of the 70's or something and they had Man City's Dennis Tuart on.
He was a bit of a flair player who liked to try things and he said it was great playing in front of the Main Road fans because if you tried something and it didn't come off the fans wouldn't get on your back, they'd be like "go on do it again, try it again" encouraging him on.
I'm not saying that Edwards should start doing Frank Worthington flick overs in our box or anything but fear of a reaction shackles players, yes they should be tougher, but in some cases they simply aren't and a "get rid of it next time you useless $$$$ing $$$$" hardly lifts the spririts.
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 12:05
Some people will never accept the affect that booing will have on the players. Yet will accept chearing will lift them.
IMHO Any booing of individual players has a detrimental effect on performances.
Especially to the younger players, although there are many an experienced pro who cannot accept / handle criticism, they require an arm round them, they need to feel the crowd/Manager/Club are with them.
Just because someone earns an abscene amount of money does not make them machines who can just perform irrespective of what is going on around them.
The booing of Kennedy as he came on was ridiculous and started several altercations I could see in the Southbank. However I don't think letting the team know the performance is unacceptable at half time and full time is a problem, it happens at most grounds and doesn't bother good teams. Spurs left the field to a chorus of boos at half time last night, it obviously had no negative effect on them.
Templeton Peck
28-03-2006, 12:11
they need to feel the crowd/Manager/Club are with them.
The fact we've turned up should be enough for them to feel that.
Reddish Wolf
28-03-2006, 12:12
The support that Sheff Weds got off their fans on Saturday (even before they scored) was 100 times better than Wolves.
The support that Sheff Weds got off their fans on Saturday (even before they scored) was 100 times better than Wolves.
I don't care how well we do, I ain't taking my shirt off for the wolves!
Essex Wolf
28-03-2006, 12:15
Conflicting views from professionals within the club. Cort blames us whilst Moxey says how great we are because of over 12000 early bird ST purchases.No wonder the club is in such a mess.
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 12:16
Cort blames us
No he doesn't.
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 12:16
The fact we've turned up should be enough for them to feel that.
But it's not. some players need more.
Bumbamuffin
28-03-2006, 12:20
Some people will never accept the affect that booing will have on the players. Yet will accept chearing will lift them.
IMHO Any booing of individual players has a detrimental effect on performances.
Especially to the younger players, although there are many an experienced pro who cannot accept / handle criticism, they require an arm round them, they need to feel the crowd/Manager/Club are with them.
Just because someone earns an abscene amount of money does not make them machines who can just perform irrespective of what is going on around them.
FFS anyone would think that the Wolves fans boo all the players out onto the pitch and then boo every touch thereafter.Taking Saturday for example,yes the booing of Kennedy was wrong,but in general the atmosphere was mildly supportive at best,subdued at worst-certainly not enough to go anywhere near explaining the team's capitulation,yes the TEAM'S capitulation.Yes there was growing(vocal) frustration at the end but the game was lost by then.If you're saying that these players cannot perform against such a backdrop then I'd prefer they went to play elsewhere.
Most get encouragement from large sections of the crowd. The apathy that Glenn has bought to the club with his style of play has had such a negative effect that the boo boys are easily able to made themselves heard. I hope for the sake of the match day atmosphere(as well as the club in general) Glenn is gone soon.
Del Woppio
28-03-2006, 12:22
Conflicting views from professionals within the club. Cort blames us whilst Moxey says how great we are because of over 12000 early bird ST purchases.No wonder the club is in such a mess.
you really do talk some rubbish. Where does Cort say he blames us? Even if he did say/intimate that, it still wouldn't be a conflicting view as they are in reference to different topics. Moxey is refering to the financial support, not the vocal support or patience which Cort would have reffered to had he 'blamed the fans'
Essex Wolf
28-03-2006, 12:22
No he doesn't.
So sorry, must have misunderstood comments such as "and we know the fans do get on our backs, sometimes very early on" and "sometimes I don't think our fans realise how much of an influence they can be".
Only saying it as he sees it I suppose but hardly praise is it?
DW thanks for the stupid comment but it's all about opinion. Support can mean many things and in the world of football vocal, numbers and money are three very important issues I'd say. So two professionals from the same club make comments that are directed at the fans. One gives praise and the other, IN MY VIEW, has a little knock.
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 12:24
I don't see that as "blaming" the fans, merely pointing out the facts. Or maybe you have a different view on how booing Cort and Kennedy onto the pitch affects the team?
Someone mentioned in a post a week ago or so that people in this area like to see a team who play up and at them battling type football. If the team do this the crowd love it and get louder and louder, a few crunching tackles at the start of the game gets everything going.
Thats why players like Bully, Keith Downing, Alex Rae, Paul Ince, and even Ade Akinbiyi to a lesser extent will be remembered at this club because they gave everything in the game.
We don't get that sort of atmosphere with tippy-tappy keep the ball at all costs football.
Most people remember the DJ era pre promotion as the most exciting football we've seen for ages. Getting the ball forward to 2 wingers who get loads of crosses in to the box for 2 strikers, midfielders who get up and down the pitch put in challenges & score goals.
Effort and commitment is all the crowd want to see, they give it, we respond. Simple really.
When was Cort booed onto the pitch?
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 12:31
Bumbamuffin. ANY booing of individual players has a detrimental effect. You do not need to Boo all, you do not need to Boo constant. Individual players have been booed by Wolves fans since we got promoted to the division from hell.
Question
I go back as far as the late sixties 1st gamne Knowles was playing
I cannot remember players beeing booed prior to the our final promotion to the championship.
I was at the club all through the dark days, helping round the ground. I was not at Chorley when we lost, but I was at the Mol for the home game. even in those days I do not remember booing players.
I remember Ray Hankin, so overweight it was untrue, yet he was not booed.
Is it bacause of the salary they get paid now ?
Were we more appreciative, because they were paid a salary closer to us.
Or are we more demanding because it is so expensive to go.
or have our expectations been raised because of the amount of money the club have spent
Nicky Clarke was not a good defender but he was a young kid and we gave him our support no matter how bad he played.
But he certainly was not on the salary;s they are on to day.
What do you lot think are the reasons.....
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 12:32
When was Cort booed onto the pitch?
There were definitely a few boos when he came on against Wednesday. He also got jeered off against Stoke. Pathetic.
Money undoubtedly has an effect on the patience levels of the crowd. People are reluctant to cut people slack who earn such good money yet fail to deliver, work for it. I'm not sure you will ever recover that now.
There were definitely a few boos when he came on against Wednesday. He also got jeered off against Stoke. Pathetic.
I have blanked Stoke from my mind. I heard no boos from where I was when Cort came on on Saturday though. You are correct with the pathetic tag though
Templeton Peck
28-03-2006, 12:36
But it's not. some players need more.
I have never known a player get booed from the very start of his Wolves career be it a youth lad or new signing. People are always very supportive of new faces - even Rob Taylor wasn't booed at first. Players have to earn any abuse they get from what is essentially a benign crowd. The worst thing that can be said about us at the moment is that we are 'subdued'. As Bumbamuffin saiys - not exactly enough to explain a 3-1 defeat to Sheff Wed is it?
HIGHLANDER
28-03-2006, 12:42
What you have to remember is,these players are getting paid more in two years than most of us will get paid in a lifetime, and it's you and I that are paying it.As far as I'm concerned, if they dont like the pressure they can f off.
Underachievers like the bunch we have got at the moment will always try and blame somebody else when they fail,Moxey included.
You have to remember that it is the same fans in the ground that were there three years ago when we were promoted.I don't remember us getting criticised then..The thing that has changed is, that we have a worse team and worse manager now than then.
Question
I go back as far as the late sixties 1st gamne Knowles was playing
I cannot remember players beeing booed prior to the our final promotion to the championship.
I was at the club all through the dark days, helping round the ground. I was not at Chorley when we lost, but I was at the Mol for the home game. even in those days I do not remember booing players.
I remember Ray Hankin, so overweight it was untrue, yet he was not booed.
Not so sure that all of that sentiment is true?
Alan Hinton was booed out of the club and he went on to earn a championship medal with Derby County.
Another example of the club not appreciating what they had.
Jack Bauer
28-03-2006, 13:09
I can't believe we're having this discussion again, are Wolves fans the worst in the country? Course they're $$$$ing not, players deserve to be booed and get booed, like they do at every club up and down the country.
I can't believe we're having this discussion again, are Wolves fans the worst in the country? Course they're $$$$ing not, players deserve to be booed and get booed, like they do at every club up and down the country.
Do they deserve to be booed as they are coming off the bench??
Bearing in mind that they've yet to touch the ball and unless the fans have some kind of sixth sense they can have no way of knowing what kind of game they will have?
Jack Bauer
28-03-2006, 13:24
Do they deserve to be booed as they are coming off the bench??
Bearing in mind that they've yet to touch the ball and unless the fans have some kind of sixth sense they can have no way of knowing what kind of game they will have?
No, but it happens at other clubs as well, that is the point I'm making. Drogba was booed by Chelsea fans on Saturday despite being man of the match.
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 13:24
True Basher Hinton was, Because he wore white boots. Lets just say it is more prevalent these days. There may be other players down the years, but I cannot remember any others
Jack TBH teams are Booed, I am trying to remember seeing individual players booed on SKY by other clubs. I think Wolves fans tend to pick on individual players rather than the team. I would agree with a good surrounding of boos at half time and full time aimed at the team. But booing a player coming on, boing a player having a bad game...
Players do not play poor on purpose they just have games hwre things go wrong. I am not defending the players nor am I saying it is soley our fault.
I am just staing IMHO booing of individual players has a detrimental effect.
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 13:27
Drogba was booed because Chelsea fans are getting a bit tired of his constant cheating and histrionics. I doubt they'd boo a player as he came on.
That's not to say we're the worst fans in the world, but we do have more than our fair share of morons. Out of interest, why do you get so defensive whenever anyone dares to criticise the fans?
Jack Bauer
28-03-2006, 13:27
True Basher Hinton was, Because he wore white boots. Lets just say it is more prevalent these days. There may be other players down the years, but I cannot remember any others
Jack TBH teams are Booed, I am trying to remember seeing individual players booed on SKY by other clubs. I think Wolves fans tend to pick on individual players rather than the team. I would agree with a good surrounding of boos at half time and full time aimed at the team. But booing a player coming on, boing a player having a bad game...
Players do not play poor on purpose they just have games hwre things go wrong. I am not defending the players nor am I saying it is soley our fault.
I am just staing IMHO booing of individual players has a detrimental effect.
See my point above about Drogba.
Jack Bauer
28-03-2006, 13:29
Drogba was booed because Chelsea fans are getting a bit tired of his constant cheating and histrionics. I doubt they'd boo a player as he came on.
That's not to say we're the worst fans in the world, but we do have more than our fair share of morons. Out of interest, why do you get so defensive whenever anyone dares to criticise the fans?
Because i'm fed up of these constant 'Wolves are the worst fans in the world' threads. I boo players, i'm not gonna deny it, i wouldn't boo a player before they'd even come on though.
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 13:31
i wouldn't boo a player before they'd even come on though.
Clearly a sizeable minority of Wolves fans would.
I'm sure there are dozens of clubs who have worse fans than us, but I don't observe them on a weekly basis. In the past four years, our fans have singled out Butler, Andrews, Naylor, Kennedy, Jones, Cort, Miller and Clarke for individual abuse. Whether you agree or disagree that the criticism was merited against those individuals, it does point to a deeper-lying problem.
Jack
Drogba was booed for cheating. Our players are booed(in some cases) for coming off the bench!!
Glasgow
At least we can agree on something!!
Collective booing of the team at halftime/fulltime is fine with me. Booing of individuals during the course of the game is not. It's counter productive and just plays into the oppostions hands!!! We are all striving to win a game of football, the players, the management, and the fans. Although we as fans may not think that they are at times. But during the course of play we should all strive to get the result we all want!
Jack Bauer
28-03-2006, 13:33
Clearly a sizeable minority of Wolves fans would.
I'm sure there are dozens of clubs who have worse fans than us, but I don't observe them on a weekly basis. In the past four years, our fans have singled out Butler, Andrews, Naylor, Kennedy, Jones, Cort, Miller and Clarke for individual abuse. Whether you agree or disagree that the criticism was merited against those individuals, it does point to a deeper-lying problem.
It is true that our fans like a scapegoat, I agree with that. For someone to suggest that we are the worst is stupid and for players or the manager to criticise the fans for doing it is out of order.
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 13:37
Who's saying we're the worst?
All clubs' fans boo players, it's been an increasing trend at Molineux to the point where it's out-and-out nasty at times (cf Kennedy on Saturday and when he scored against Crewe).
wolf of sedgley
28-03-2006, 13:39
The only time we should boo is at fulltime and halftime.
Winelord
28-03-2006, 13:47
Wolves played brilliantly against Cardiff, depite the fact there were riot police and dogs practically on the touchline, and it was possible that fighting could flare up again pitchside. If they can blank that out OK, then I'm sure they can ignore booing during the match. I don't agree with the barracking that the players get, but I'd expect them to cope with it.
Del Woppio
28-03-2006, 13:52
The only time we should boo is at fulltime and halftime.
i'd like to extend on that, and suggest we only do it when we're playing badly, too.
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 13:59
Wine TBH, it is totally different. I daresay if you were at work, and you had some one standing in the office constantly telling you how carp you were etc, your performance would suffer......
DW and Basher A thread where we agree whatever next ;-).....
Essex Wolf
28-03-2006, 14:00
End of the day the players out on the pitch wearing the clubs colours are highly paid professionals. Even the lowest paid player will still be earning far more than most of us for doing less hours, very few unsociable hours and for doing something they enjoy and keeps them fit. Hardly a tough life as I see it and it is very disheartening and disappointing when these so calls professionals just don't seem to be trying or give a stuff.
Whilst I neither agree with booing or heckling of a player I can understand why it happens.
Sadly the days of players playing for their club of choice with pride, passion and commitment have diminished greatly so whilst it may upset and anger most of us should we really be that surprised.
Bumbamuffin. ANY booing of individual players has a detrimental effect. You do not need to Boo all, you do not need to Boo constant. Individual players have been booed by Wolves fans since we got promoted to the division from hell.
Question
I go back as far as the late sixties 1st gamne Knowles was playing
I cannot remember players beeing booed prior to the our final promotion to the championship.
I was at the club all through the dark days, helping round the ground. I was not at Chorley when we lost, but I was at the Mol for the home game. even in those days I do not remember booing players.
I remember Ray Hankin, so overweight it was untrue, yet he was not booed.
Is it bacause of the salary they get paid now ?
Were we more appreciative, because they were paid a salary closer to us.
Or are we more demanding because it is so expensive to go.
or have our expectations been raised because of the amount of money the club have spent
Nicky Clarke was not a good defender but he was a young kid and we gave him our support no matter how bad he played.
But he certainly was not on the salary;s they are on to day.
What do you lot think are the reasons.....
Glasgowwolf, don't know about the sixties cos I'm not old, but I think the reason there was no booing of players in the dark days of the Eighties is because there were only a few thousand loyal supporters going. I'll bet that none of the glory-hunting chavs that were booing Kennedy on Saturday were at the Chorley game.
Essex
What's their salary got to with it?
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 14:07
Essex
What's their salary got to with it?
I'll second that.
Also, I don't think it's fair to criticise the effort of the players on Saturday - the style of play was poor, and we defended abysmally, but all the players gave it their all. I'm interested to know how people define 'commitment' - is Ince exempt from criticism because he shouts and points? Why is Kennedy perceived to be lazy when he does much the same thing?
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 14:15
Glasgowwolf, don't know about the sixties cos I'm not old, but I think the reason there was no booing of players in the dark days of the Eighties is because there were only a few thousand loyal supporters going. I'll bet that none of the glory-hunting chavs that were booing Kennedy on Saturday were at the Chorley game.
OOOOH Fenella That makes me feel old ;-)
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 14:18
I'll second that.
Also, I don't think it's fair to criticise the effort of the players on Saturday - the style of play was poor, and we defended abysmally, but all the players gave it their all. I'm interested to know how people define 'commitment' - is Ince exempt from criticism because he shouts and points? Why is Kennedy perceived to be lazy when he does much the same thing?
DW I think they are perceived as different type of players.
Many times in discussions I have said that a Wolves player will always be exempt from crticism if they are perceived to be a tryer. If a player runs around like a headless chicken but does nothing he will always be better appreciated by the fans than say a Paul Cook, Mark Kennedy type.
Essex Wolf
28-03-2006, 14:18
Essex
What's their salary got to with it?
Professional people, and that's what Wolves players are, get well paid to achieve results. If the aim was to lose and be unsuccessful then maybe they would deserve their vast incomes.Many of Wolves well paid players have, IMV and opinion, failed miserably this season. In many other walks of life people would have been sacked for such poor performance. Just my view.
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 14:19
So you'd accept failure if the players were on £5.50 an hour?
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 14:21
Essex irrespective of salary amount. A player is a human with the same frailties, same ego's same worry's as the rest of us. Just because they get shed loads of money they do not suddenly become some sort of super human.
As I said in me earlier post. It is more prevelant now than it used to be and it does boil down the obscene amounts they get paid.
Sorry Essex but I just dont accept that.
The marketplace decides the level of renumeration that an employee earns. I just dont see how levelling criticism at a players performance and linking it to their salary is making any kind of point??
Lee Naylor is as honest a player that Wolves have on their books. He goes out on to the pitch and always tries his hardest for the club. He is subjected to the boos of the fans because technically he isn't the best. Does the level of pay he gets add to this criticism??
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 14:29
Basher I think Naylor is highly under rated. He may not be the best defensivley, neither is Cole (who IMHO is the best left back in the world).
He is quick and the only times wingers take him to the cleaners is when he has no support, or havs just come back from injury.
You are correct he gives everything he has
Essex Wolf
28-03-2006, 15:03
DW, it's not a case of accepting failure just because of the rate of pay but I expect a damn site more effort than I have seen on far too many occasions this season considering the amount these players get. At least they can try.
GW, yes and I fully agree but again it's not how much they get paid that annoys me it's the lack of effort at times considering the luxury position these people are in.They could earn twice as much for all I care as long as I see 100% commitment, effort, pride in the shirt and desire. I have seen very little of it this season.
Basher, I've given my reasons as above.
Essex
How do you know that the players haven't given 100% commitment?
Aren't you just basing your opinions on the results??
The results and performances have been poor, but I don't feel that is because the players have gone out there trying not to win games.
Templeton Peck
28-03-2006, 15:16
Basher I think Naylor is highly under rated. He may not be the best defensivley, neither is Cole (who IMHO is the best left back in the world).
He is quick and the only times wingers take him to the cleaners is when he has no support, or havs just come back from injury.
You are correct he gives everything he has
Naylor is an average championship level left back at best. He is quick and his commitment can't be faulted but these do not a good player make. His distribution is frequently poor and he is inconsistent. It seems every Wolves manager has a blind spot when it comes to left backs and not one has ever signed any decent competition for him - IMO this has contributed to Naylor's poor form over the years.
Deutsch Wolf
28-03-2006, 15:18
They could earn twice as much for all I care as long as I see 100% commitment, effort, pride in the shirt and desire.
How would you define that?
glasgowwolf
28-03-2006, 15:23
TP true players tend to play well when they have competition. I think Naylor could play at bottom end Prem. He needs a decent left midfielder in front of him. IMHO and I saw very game in the prem (this is the first season I have not had a season ticket.) I may get one for next season long way to com though for every game. Nails was not our biggest problem in the prem. It was down our right hand side, Cradock mainly, and Irwin was caught out a few times. Our Central midfield was ok Ince, and Rae. The wide midfield was very poor. Up front was where we were truly in trouble. Camara missed far to many. none of the others looked like scoring. I would have liked to see Miller up front in every game. I wish he had the op as soon as the play offs had finished.
Essex Wolf
28-03-2006, 16:08
Basher, DW, I can see this debate between us becoming a long drawn out issue that frankly most posters are not the slightest interested in so I'll make this my last post on the matter.
DW, good question as how to define it but for me it is to just try harder, simple as that. If you are happy with some of what you have seen produced/given by some of our players than sobeit but I am not happy with it and expect more. I'd far prefer to have the likes of Downing, Thompson and the like giving their all even if out classed than see players like Anderton prance about at a snails pace looking totally uninterested after less than half hour because he is too knackered. Bet his still pleased to take the wages though, getting my point?
Basher, if you feel players like Anderton, Seol and Kennedy have given of their all/best then you are obviously happy to accept less than I. Not a personel slight on you and maybe I expect too much but after spending a total of sometimes 8 hours driving for a home game and spending a few quid I at least want to see the players representing the team I support give a bit more than I witness.
Sorry Essex but I just dont accept that.
The marketplace decides the level of renumeration that an employee earns. I just dont see how levelling criticism at a players performance and linking it to their salary is making any kind of point??
People see our higher payed players outfought and outplayed by lesser payed players and understandibly become annoyed with them as our players are earning too much, or other sides pay too little.
Carl Cort is possibly payed 4 times as much as Tudgay, did he look 4 times better?
I think most people accept the market place defines salaries, they just can't work out how our lot outmanouvered market forces!
RyanWolf
28-03-2006, 17:38
By and large this season, the Wolves fans have been absolutely $$$$e.
Agree with Del Woppio, we as a group of fans have showed just how bad we can be this season in front of an admittedly uninspiring team. I've never felt more discouraged by our fans than in this campaign. There's always been the pressure and the expectancy, but ususally consistently entertaining matches to go with it. For the most part, we've showed that we don't really instinctively want to encourage the players. We seem to think it's a one-way thing when it blatantly isn't.
Jack Bauer
28-03-2006, 18:56
The players playing badly causes booing, not the other way round.
RyanWolf
28-03-2006, 21:57
There's a saying: "You're not happy unless you're miserable." I believe it applies to 6/10 Wolves fans.
Bumbamuffin
28-03-2006, 22:53
There's a saying: "You're not happy unless you're miserable." I believe it applies to 6/10 Wolves fans.
Based on scientific research I presume.
Nothing changes, Bill Mcgarry blamed the fans too.
Manitoba Wolf
29-03-2006, 05:44
The Shef. Wed fans said how terrible the Wolves fans were, Molineux was quieter than a church. Whether that's b/c the play on the pitch was brutal is up for the fans attending to decide!! They did say though that the atmosphere was terrible right from the get go. Can't you guys just sing songs about players from the past, might embarass our current lot into performing.
Can't you guys just sing songs about players from the past, might embarass our current lot into performing.
Nothing more cringeworthy (with the notable exception of Steve Bull) than hearing fans singing songs about players from yesteryear. It just sums up how distant we are from the current team.
Big Saft Kid
29-03-2006, 07:46
Cort's comments on the crowd are the most pathetic bag of self-serving w*nk I've ever read. The Mol crowd can be the most passionate in the league - if it spots one scintilla of passion in the attitude of the players of the pitch -- players who are paid in a week what some of us are paid in a year. But it doesn't. Most of the time it spots lazy players who don't run and challenge, who don't work for each other, who take the easy way out, who don't take responsibility, and an arrogant know-all of a manager who lets them get away with it (and uses the saem excuses). Eff off Cort, eff right off and don't come back :mad: :mad: :mad:
RyanWolf
29-03-2006, 11:49
Based on scientific research I presume.
Hence the words, "I believe."
The Bear
29-03-2006, 14:36
It's not so much the booing, but the collective groans and shouts when a pass goes astray or we dare pass it backwards that gets the players playing edgy.
Manitoba Wolf
29-03-2006, 15:45
Nothing more cringeworthy (with the notable exception of Steve Bull) than hearing fans singing songs about players from yesteryear. It just sums up how distant we are from the current team.
I'm hoping the current players would find it cringeworthy.
Deutsch Wolf
29-03-2006, 15:46
It doesn't seem to affect Man Utd's players.
derbyrameater
29-03-2006, 20:48
IMO it happens at a hell of a lot of grounds, again IMO i think it could be to do with the wages the playing and manergerial staff are on, the wage is so huge that to justify it they are regarded as super-human and people feel they are owed success for the amount of money they are paying, which on both counts they are obviously not. Perhaps if the amount they were being paid started to go down then some sort of affiliation might start to come back into the game. I don`t particulary like Kennedy but I have never booed him or any other players onto or off the pitch as an individual, it is actually quite rare for me to boo the team off, because normally one or two players might have played well and as it is collective booing they kop it as well which is obviously unfair. This why I have only booed the team off on few occasions, one against Crystal Palace a few years ago when no one could do anything right and a couple of times this year not including one where I left a match early for the first in my life because the football on display was so boring. I am making my displeasure at the prices we are paying be known by not renewing my ST whether we get promoted or not, in fact a promotion would have guarenteed a price increase and I would not have renewed then even if we had been playing good football. While people pay the asking price hikes will continue but the fans who do turn up will be more demanding than ever. I wish I was wrong bit IMO turn the sound up on MOD and other games and you can hear and see it, although the TV companies try to hide it with control of the mikes.
