View Full Version : Out of his depth?
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 10:34
...I do wonder how many more times that Moxey is going to have to tell us how hard he works....people who usually tell you this sound as if they are trying to justify themselves...but he says it everytime he is involved in a transfer window....out comes the 'we are working hard to bring in....blah, blah, blah'
So to highlight it more he came out with this comment about the Frankowski deal:
"International transfers are, generally speaking, more complicated than domestic ones but this deal has been particularly torturous.
I have been working on this constantly since December 28 and I am pleased we have finally got the man Glenn wanted."
TORTUROUS!!!!!...didn't he say something similar about Camara, why does he find things so complicated, other clubs seem to cope....good job he doesn't work for Arsenal or Bolton then.
Maybe he should give up dealing with transfers if he finds it so hard....maybe we could find someone who can do the job a bit quicker. Is it me, but I hadn't noticed domestic ones being that simple for us either...also note that 'distancing himself from Hoddle remark at the end? 'we have finally got the man Glenn wanted'...notably not ..'who WE wanted'Edited by: SOA Wolf
Slagged off when we don't buy / slagged off when we do. Oh, the joy of MM.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 10:44
I would assume that he'll stop telling us how hard he works when mongs on message boards stop slagging him off for supposedly taking holidays.
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 10:44
Slagged off when we don't buy / slagged off when we do. Oh, the joy of MM.
So have you been happy with the way we conduct our transfers in? Just because we managed to sort out 2 new transfers (plus 3 re-signs, before anyone starts) in this window does not mean we are some sort of superstars....I have never questioned how much money we put in, but I have always questioned how much we pay for players....I can barely think ofmore than a couple(other than frees...which all clubs get) which has been 'value for money'...can you. Jury is out yet on Gyepes, but may be a good one...but on the opposite side we have paid over the odds on plenty....and usually after spending an age sorting them out, as well as missing out on a fair few too.
Moxey is not the reason that Wolves are currently eighth in the league.
I still don't understand why he gets so much hate directed at him.
Do you even believe in the things you have just written or do you think like most of the people on here think that if you say something bad about Moxey people will join in.
The only thing I have against him is rise in ticket prices in the last few years but I have accepted the fact that this is necesary if we are to get to where we want to be.
Ultimately Moxey is a business man and you cant deny that the business side of the club has improved dramatically since he has been at the club.
You criticise his transfer dealings but we have spent 1.5million on an international striker that the Manager singled out and as Moxey has stated he has delivered. Where was the praise when we signed McNamara in the summer? Where is the recognition for wolves getting the deal they did for Camara?
I know im not going to be the most popular person for saying this but get of the $$$$$$$ing band waggon and if you want to direct your frustration at someone direct it at the right person not everybodies favourite scape goat!
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 10:52
Imv SOA Moxey is a very very lucky man that Wolves got promoted once in his 5 year tenure - whithout that promotion - I for one believe that SJH would have had to put up alot more money and imv the promotion was down to the players and the manager and imv it wasunexpected by Moxey - If the club expected the promotion - we would have prepared better for the Prem and as we all know we did'nt - the other view I suppose is that Moxey doesnt know what he's doing because most of the stuff with international transfers is a new learning curve to him - he never did any of that at Stoke City and he was involved in scratch cards in Scottish football before that! A syndicate I believe he sold at a profit
And I totally agreee that Moxey spends alot of his time looking for photo opportunities to make himself look good ala - the media spin about Wolves being the tightest in paying fees to agents - when he was being interviewed about bungs- he just had to get that one in! and also as you say the statement about Franky being Glenns choice - ala Dont blame me if it goes wrong! It took Jez almost a month to complete one deal - Why?
Imv Mr Moxey should be pro active in his work as CEO and bring in more companies into the club to attract fresh blood and money that the club could use to work towards becoming self sufficient - not relying on one promotion in 5 years to balance the books!
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 10:54
Moxey is not the reason that Wolves are currently eighth in the league.
He wanted and appointed Hoddle, so he is partly to blame.
I still don't understand why he gets so much hate directed at him.
Do you even believe in the things you have just written or do you think like most of the people on here think that if you say something bad about Moxey people will join in.
yes I do believe them
The only thing I have against him is rise in ticket prices in the last few years but I have accepted the fact that this is necesary if we are to get to where we want to be.
In what way, by reducing crowds by 20%, which means with the loss of ticket revenue plus catering and merchandising income has reduces our potential income base much more.
Ultimately Moxey is a business man and you cant deny that the business side of the club has improved dramatically since he has been at the club.
No I do not, I see some short term measures which I believe are not good for the club..see above
You criticise his transfer dealings but we have spent 1.5million on an international striker that the Manager singled out and as Moxey has stated he has delivered. Where was the praise when we signed McNamara in the summer? Where is the recognition for wolves getting the deal they did for Camara?
See HGW signature, read my posts, I congratulated him on both, oases in a desert of expensive deals.
I know im not going to be the most popular person for saying this but get of the $$$$$$$ing band waggon and if you want to direct your frustration at someone direct it at the right person not everybodies favourite scape goat!
I don't think you could accuse me of 'jumping on a bandwagon' here...be serious.
Del Woppio
27-01-2006, 10:57
no, because you drive the bugger.
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 10:58
no, because you drive the bugger.
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Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 10:59
Imv Mr Moxey should be pro active in his work as CEO and bring in more companies into the club to attract fresh blood and money that the club could use to work towards becoming self sufficient - not relying on one promotion in 5 years to balance the books!
Income in 2000 when Moxey took over: 8m
Income last year: 22m
Even setting aside the fact that 7m of that was parachute money, its still a 100% increase in turnover within 5 years. I'll wager there arent many football clubs that have managed that while staying in the same division....
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:01
Imv Mr Moxey should be pro active in his work as CEO and bring in more companies into the club to attract fresh blood and money that the club could use to work towards becoming self sufficient - not relying on one promotion in 5 years to balance the books!
Income in 2000 when Moxey took over: 8m
Income last year: 22m
Even setting aside the fact that 7m of that was parachute money, its still a 100% increase in turnover within 5 years. I'll wager there arent many football clubs that have managed that while staying in the same division....
and if we do not go up this season, what will it be then? As with any of these figures Vis, you should know that you need a proper breakdown before you can see the full picture to see where that income came from.
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 11:03
[QUOTE=Jamboon]
Ultimately Moxey is a business man and you cant deny that the business side of the club has improved dramatically since he has been at the club.
No I do not, I see some short term measures which I believe are not good for the club..see above
Ultimately Moxey should be part of a management team called a Board who collectively make decisions and then as CEO it is his job to oversee them having the relevant resources to hand. So when Moxey gets stick why is it not levelled at this non existant Board.
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:05
[QUOTE=Jamboon]
Ultimately Moxey is a business man and you cant deny that the business side of the club has improved dramatically since he has been at the club.
No I do not, I see some short term measures which I believe are not good for the club..see above
Ultimately Moxey should be part of a management team called a Board who collectively make decisions and then as CEO it is his job to oversee them having the relevant resources to hand. So when Moxey gets stick why is it not levelled at this non existant Board.
Because it is non existent!
Manduca....where is he? Rick when is he there? Who holds the power? You answer...
I doubt the appointment of Hoddle was souly down to Moxey, and even so you can't blame Moxey for appointing an ex international Manager with proven track record, because he hasn't lived up to his expectations.
Crowds are falling across the board not just at Molineux if it was a case of ticket prices then why do we expect a sell out on sunday?
People will turn up if they are beingentertained by theFootball they watch on the pitch.
Something which has nothing to do with the way Moxey does his job!
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:07
Income in 2000 when Moxey took over: 8m
Income last year: 22m
Even setting aside the fact that 7m of that was parachute money, its still a 100% increase in turnover within 5 years. I'll wager there arent many football clubs that have managed that while staying in the same division....
Hello Vis
Granted - but has the increase in revenue been down to money from increased gates/ prices of tickets?
How much have the cost of tickets gone up over the 5 years? And
How much of that money last year was from players we sold/ loaned?
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:08
Income in 2000 when Moxey took over: 8m
Income last year: 22m
Even setting aside the fact that 7m of that was parachute money, its still a 100% increase in turnover within 5 years. I'll wager there arent many football clubs that have managed that while staying in the same division....
Hello Vis
Granted - but has the increase in revenue been down to money from increased gates/ prices of tickets?
How much have the cost of tickets gone up over the 5 years? And
How much of that money last year was from players we sold/ loaned?
Cost of tickets is irerlevant - people pay the prices. Moxey doesnt force anyone to buy a ticket.
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:16
Cost of tickets is irerlevant - people pay the prices. Moxey doesnt force anyone to buy a ticket.
Yes - Moxey doesnt force anyone but he does force the prices up! Surely the price increases puts up the income in any sales ledger?
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:22
Cost of tickets is irerlevant - people pay the prices. Moxey doesnt force anyone to buy a ticket.
Yes - Moxey doesnt force anyone but he does force the prices up! Surely the price increases puts up the income in any sales ledger?
Yes,m and quite rightly.
WOlves are a bsuiness. They sell commodities - namely match tickets, merchandise, sponsorship and tv rights (collectively in the last case).
Any good business will seek to strike a balance between costs and sales, in order to maximise the product of the two; We could reduce ticket prices to a quid and sell out every week. Alternatively we could make tickets cost 500k, and we would only need to sell one a week to break even.
This season, Wolves have been operating at about a 76% attendance. There's probably a maximum of about 95%, given the fact that away sides rarely sell all their tickets. So we're missing out on 20% of potential sales in terms of numbers.
For JM to fill those remaining seats, assuming an average ticket price of 25 quid, he'd have to still charge AT LEAST 19 quid to fill the seats.
Would anyone suggest that dropping ticket prices by 6 quid would produce an extra 6,000 fans? Given the current level of apathy I struggle to believe that.
Cost of tickets is irerlevant - people pay the prices. Moxey doesnt force anyone to buy a ticket.
Yes - Moxey doesnt force anyone but he does force the prices up! Surely the price increases puts up the income in any sales ledger?
Yes,m and quite rightly.
WOlves are a bsuiness. They sell commodities - namely match tickets, merchandise, sponsorship and tv rights (collectively in the last case).
Any good business will seek to strike a balance between costs and sales, in order to maximise the product of the two; We could reduce ticket prices to a quid and sell out every week. Alternatively we could make tickets cost 500k, and we would only need to sell one a week to break even.
This season, Wolves have been operating at about a 76% attendance. There's probably a maximum of about 95%, given the fact that away sides rarely sell all their tickets. So we're missing out on 20% of potential sales in terms of numbers.
For JM to fill those remaining seats, assuming an average ticket price of 25 quid, he'd have to still charge AT LEAST 19 quid to fill the seats.
Would anyone suggest that dropping ticket prices by 6 quid would produce an extra 6,000 fans? Given the current level of apathy I struggle to believe that.
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Bill McCai
27-01-2006, 11:28
First and foremost, the lantern jawed prat who thinks he is the Championships version of Jose Mourinho should get some stick IMO.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:29
</font></span></font></font>First and foremost, the lantern jawed prat who thinks he is the Championships version of Jose Mourinho should get some stick IMO.</font>
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Exactly. This is what p!$*es me off most about Moxey bashing - it allows the REAL culprit to get away with it.
The only thing I have against him is rise in ticket prices in the last few years but I have accepted the fact that this is necesary if we are to get to where we want to be.
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Charging high prices to feul the huge wage bill is working a treat isn't it?
Take the blinkers off.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:32
The only thing I have against him is rise in ticket prices in the last few years but I have accepted the fact that this is necesary if we are to get to where we want to be.
smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
Charging high prices to feul the huge wage bill is working a treat isn't it?
Take the blinkers off.
I think you have it the wrong way around. Moxey doesnt set prices because its the level he needs to pay wages. He sets the prices at a level which will maximise income. Its that income that allows the club to offer high wages.
I doubt the appointment of Hoddle was souly down to Moxey, and even so you can't blame Moxey for appointing an ex international Manager with proven track record, because he hasn't lived up to his expectations.
Oh yes I can. Moxey's "proven ex-international manager with a proven track record" is my "un-proven Championship manager with a very mixed track record who blew £40m in 2 years at Spurs and has only ever won a play-off final trophy and couldn't get a job for love or money before we offered in 500k for 6 months work".
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:34
Vis Yes I am fully aware of what Wolves do and sell thanks but I asked the following:
1) Has the increase in revenue you mention been down to increased gates/ price increases in ticket sales - over the last 5 years?
2) How much has the cost of tickets gone up over the last 5 years? and
3) How much of the 22m you mention is money from players we sold/ loaned out last season?
nb* I believe that price increases in ticket revenues are relevant as they will show the true amount of any increase in revenue EG: 8M, 5 years ago - Charge double for the same product - ah yes we sell tickets dont we - your words - and that is 16m wow I just did a 100% increase in turnover - Can i have the job Sir Jack? Now - add 7m from Sky and that gives me almost 23m wow!
The only thing I have against him is rise in ticket prices in the last few years but I have accepted the fact that this is necesary if we are to get to where we want to be.
smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
Charging high prices to feul the huge wage bill is working a treat isn't it?
Take the blinkers off.
I think you have it the wrong way around. Moxey doesnt set prices because its the level he needs to pay wages. He sets the prices at a level which will maximise income. Its that income that allows the club to offer high wages.
I think you have it the wrong way round, he sets the prices at the level he needs to keep the books balanced.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:36
The only thing I have against him is rise in ticket prices in the last few years but I have accepted the fact that this is necesary if we are to get to where we want to be.
smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
Charging high prices to feul the huge wage bill is working a treat isn't it?
Take the blinkers off.
I think you have it the wrong way around. Moxey doesnt set prices because its the level he needs to pay wages. He sets the prices at a level which will maximise income. Its that income that allows the club to offer high wages.
I think you have it the wrong way round, he sets the prices at the level he needs to keep the books balanced.
What you're saying is akin to me saying that i'm paid enough to fund my outgoings, when in fact my outgoings have to be tailored to my income.
If what you say is true, Moxey could just buy up Ronaldinho and raise prices to pay for him.
Its the INCOMINGS that are the constraining factor, and it is the OUTGOINGS that need to be matched to it.
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 11:38
[
Because it is non existent!
Manduca....where is he? Rick when is he there? Who holds the power? You answer...
Timmy where are you? Come on out to play. Yes who has been given a lovely toy by daddy? Oh are you fed up with playing with it already.
Seriously is there any doubt that this club is still run in principle by Jackie baby.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:41
1) Has the increase in revenue you mention been down to increased gates/ price increases in ticket sales - over the last 5 years?
I dont know, TBH. Does it matter? Would Moxey be a better.worse CEO if the increase in revenue had come from sponsorship? merchandising or TV rights? He has a commodity to sell, and his ONLY concern should be maximising the revenue from that, through any means necessary.
2) How much has the cost of tickets gone up over the last 5 years? and
Dunno...but see my point above. Would a reduction in ticket prices lead to an increase in attendances large enough to generate a net increase in ticket revenue?
3) How much of the 22m you mention is money from players we sold/ loaned out last season?The 22m is not included profits/losses from player trading. in 2004/2005 we had an estimated net loss of 3.5m on player trading.
Looking at the actual figures, we had a net spend of 2m pounds, plus signing on fees/agents fees etc...
nb* I believe that price increases in ticket revenues are relevant as they will show the true amount of any increase in revenue EG: 8M, 5 years ago - Charge double for the same product - ah yes we sell tickets dont we - your words - and that is 16m wow I just did a 100% increase in turnover - Can i have the job Sir Jack? Now - add 7m from Sky and that gives me almost 23m wow![/QUOTE]
Seriously is there any doubt that this club is still run in principle by Jackie baby.
Yes, but I doubt you'll take any notice.
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 11:46
Seriously is there any doubt that this club is still run in principle by Jackie baby.
Yes, but I doubt you'll take any notice.
Try it. Do you really think we would have Hoddle here if Jack did not want him here. Or if he was concerned about paying the money we are for this Pole.
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:50
Vis in 5 years the cost of ticket prices would force up the income that Wolves have declared from 8m to around 16m or thereabouts - simply by increasing the ticket prices year in year out as Moxey is well known for doing - add the income from the shop sales, the Sky money and any money from the sale of players and you have a figure that amounts to the 22m or thereabouts that you talk of
Imv there is nothing earth shattering about what Moxey has done
I think Jack is less involved in the running of the club than you believe.
And no, that doesn't mean that he doesn't care anymore.
If what you say is true, Moxey could just buy up Ronaldinho and raise prices to pay for him.
That's exactly what he has just done and will do with Franeck. He will raise prices to cover the squad wages next year.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:56
Vis in 5 years the cost of ticket prices would force up the income that Wolves have declared from 8m to around 16m or thereabouts - simply by increasing the ticket prices year in year out as Moxey is well known for doing - add the income from the shop sales, the Sky money and any money from the sale of players and you have a figure that amounts to the 22m or thereabouts that you talk of
Imv there is nothing earth shattering about what Moxey has done
How many other championship teams have doubled their income over the last 5 years?
Essex Wolf
27-01-2006, 11:56
Mutchy, if SJH is not as involved in the running of the club as you say then just maybe as the owner he should be then.
The club lacks professionalism, just my view here before certain posters jump in, and he should oversee more of what goes on.
I think as a shrewd business man he knows very well what's going on but at his age he has lost the passion and interest he once had??Edited by: Essex Wolf
Vis in 5 years the cost of ticket prices would force up the income that Wolves have declared from 8m to around 16m or thereabouts - simply by increasing the ticket prices year in year out as Moxey is well known for doing - add the income from the shop sales, the Sky money and any money from the sale of players and you have a figure that amounts to the 22m or thereabouts that you talk of
Imv there is nothing earth shattering about what Moxey has done
How many other championship teams have doubled their income over the last 5 years?
Off you go and find out then.
welshwolf
27-01-2006, 11:59
I like Vis's idea of selling one ticket at £500000 but do you think the atmostphere will suffer a little bit
also in what part of the ground would they sit?
I like Vis's idea of selling one ticket at £500000 but do you think the atmostphere will suffer a little bit
also in what part of the ground would they sit?
and would he or she boo?
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:02
If what you say is true, Moxey could just buy up Ronaldinho and raise prices to pay for him.
That's exactly what he has just done and will do with Franeck. He will raise prices to cover the squad wages next year.
But thats different. You were suggesting the Moxey decides on a wage bill, then sets ticket prices at a level to cover it.
I like Vis's idea of selling one ticket at £500000 but do you think the atmostphere will suffer a little bit
also in what part of the ground would they sit?
and would he or she boo?
For that money 'I'd think the club could include missiles to throw.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:03
Vis in 5 years the cost of ticket prices would force up the income that Wolves have declared from 8m to around 16m or thereabouts - simply by increasing the ticket prices year in year out as Moxey is well known for doing - add the income from the shop sales, the Sky money and any money from the sale of players and you have a figure that amounts to the 22m or thereabouts that you talk of
Imv there is nothing earth shattering about what Moxey has done
How many other championship teams have doubled their income over the last 5 years?
Off you go and find out then.
None.
How many other championship teams have doubled their income over the last 5 years?
Off you go and find out then.
None.
[/QUOTE]
Prove it.
It's not true because you say it is.Edited by: IMAB
If what you say is true, Moxey could just buy up Ronaldinho and raise prices to pay for him.
That's exactly what he has just done and will do with Franeck. He will raise prices to cover the squad wages next year.
This suggeststhat Frankowski is on more than Miller!?
No chance
welshwolf
27-01-2006, 12:05
I like Vis's idea of selling one ticket at £500000 but do you think the atmostphere will suffer a little bit
also in what part of the ground would they sit?
and would he or she boo?
yes - but only Moxley for the outrageous ticket prices
oh and clarke
and Craddock
and Miller
and mobnet for being so slow
If what you say is true, Moxey could just buy up Ronaldinho and raise prices to pay for him.
That's exactly what he has just done and will do with Franeck. He will raise prices to cover the squad wages next year.
This suggeststhat Frankowski is on more than Miller!?
No chance
No it suggests we are losing £7m parachute payment next season.
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:07
Mutchy, if SJH is not as involved in the running of he club as you say then just maybe as the owner he should be then.
I think as a shrewd business man he knows very well what's going on but at his age he has lost the passion and interest he once had??
Essex - I have said this before, but the season we were in the Prem - SJH - the old man that people refer to did a multi million pound deal to rent out acres of his land in Scotland to a wind power company and yes, if you own a company you should over see it if you want to get the results you desire - otherwise - hire someone and hope they will do it for you! at a price!
NB* I believe that Sir Jack had hoped that his sons would come to love the club as much as he did - and I believe this to be one of the reasons that he has lost some heart apart from the money spent that is! In an ideal world we would all like our children to follow in our foot steps and get disaapointed when it doesnt happen
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:09
If what you say is true, Moxey could just buy up Ronaldinho and raise prices to pay for him.
That's exactly what he has just done and will do with Franeck. He will raise prices to cover the squad wages next year.
This suggeststhat Frankowski is on more than Miller!?
No chance
No it suggests we are losing £7m parachute payment next season.
Which will mostly be catered for by losing 5m quid off the wage bill from players who will leave in the summer.
If what you say is true, Moxey could just buy up Ronaldinho and raise prices to pay for him.
That's exactly what he has just done and will do with Franeck. He will raise prices to cover the squad wages next year.
This suggeststhat Frankowski is on more than Miller!?
No chance
No it suggests we are losing £7m parachute payment next season.
Which will mostly be catered for by losing 5m quid off the wage bill from players who will leave in the summer.
and the rest covered by raising the prices, which is what I said.
He won't maximise the profit then arrange his budget to suit, he can't.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:12
How many other championship teams have doubled their income over the last 5 years?
Off you go and find out then.
None.
Prove it.
It's not true because you say it is.[/QUOTE]
I'm honestly struggling to think of a single other championship club that is likely to have doubled its turnover over the last 5 years. Possibly someone like Luton, I guess, though successive promotions would obviously help.
Any ideas? A championship club that was in this division 5 years ago, is in this division now, and has increased turnover. I'll happily do the research if you can come up with a name. Deal?
They'd have had to have been promoted to the greed league aswell.
So try Palace and Norwich. And the friends from the east figures for the season they were back down.
Lets blame him for that aswell then
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:16
They'd have had to have been promoted to the greed league aswell.
So try Palace and Norwich. And the friends from the east figures for the season they were back down.
Why would they have to have been promoted? The doubling of turnover is excluding parachute payments.
Essex Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:16
Mutchy, if SJH is not as involved in the running of he club as you say then just maybe as the owner he should be then.
I think as a shrewd business man he knows very well what's going on but at his age he has lost the passion and interest he once had??
Essex - I have said this before, but the season we were in the Prem - SJH - the old man that people refer to did a multi million pound deal to rent out acres of his land in Scotland to a wind power company and yes, if you own a company you should over see it if you want to get the results you desire - otherwise - hire someone and hope they will do it for you! at a price!
NB* I believe that Sir Jack had hoped that his sons would come to love the club as much as he did - and I believe this to be one of the reasons that he has lost some heart apart from the money spent that is! In an ideal world we would all like our children to follow in our foot steps and get disaapointed when it doesnt happen
NW, agee with much of what you say here.
You don't get to be a multi millionaire with properties, landand buiness all over the world without being one clever, shrewd and tough character and for me SJH has all of those attributes. His downfal was his love, and therefore IMHOweakness, of Wolves.
None of us can doubt what he has done for the club but instead of having a business plan laid out he just threw money at the problem and when the problem remained just threw more money in. Can't knock him for that but when he got disinterested or bored, call it what you will but that's how I see it, he seemed to turn his back on the club a while when such a decision was needed least of all.
At well over 80yrs old just maybe he is sick and tired of it all but I for one just wish he would let us all know his feelings and intentions.
They'd have had to have been promoted to the greed league aswell.
So try Palace and Norwich. And the friends from the east figures for the season they were back down.
Why would they have to have been promoted? The doubling of turnover is excluding parachute payments.
Prove it
If what you say is true, Moxey could just buy up Ronaldinho and raise prices to pay for him.
That's exactly what he has just done and will do with Franeck. He will raise prices to cover the squad wages next year.
But thats different. You were suggesting the Moxey decides on a wage bill, then sets ticket prices at a level to cover it.
No I wasn't!
I've said
"Charging high prices to feul the huge wage bill is working a treat isn't it?"
Which is what he's doing.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:22
Palace: 2001( the club was refinanced that year, so previous figures arent available)
Turnover £12,205k
Operating expenses £13,153k
Loss before player registrations £948k
Loss on player contracts (the fact that a player’s contract is shorter means his market value is potentially less) £1,729k
Exceptional costs (costs incurred by the company to restructure the club after administration) £1,178k
PROFIT on disposal of players £194k
TOTAL LOSS FOR THE YEAR £3,666k
I'm struggling to find anything more recent....are they privately owned now? Maybe, Simon Jordon owns them outright, and is therfore not obliged to publish accounts....
Onto Norwich...though i might hit similar problems
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:24
They'd have had to have been promoted to the greed league aswell.
So try Palace and Norwich. And the friends from the east figures for the season they were back down.
Why would they have to have been promoted? The doubling of turnover is excluding parachute payments.
Prove it
Turnover in 2000 = 8m
Turnover in 2005 = 22m
Parachute payment = 7m
Change in turnover excluding parachute payment = 15/8 = 1.875
An 87.5% increase. This really is basic maths y'know....
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:29
At well over 80yrs old just maybe he is sick and tired of it all but I for one just wish he would let us all know his feelings and intentions.
I agree Essex - My father was an ex colonial like SJH and also involved in a company abroad - I am the only one of a large family that has gone into business - something my father appreciated my other brothers and sisters did not - it hurts people from the type of back ground SJH is from - an ex colonial - I know how much it meant to my father that I do what I do!
SJH should lay his cards on the table either himself or via Moxey and at least tell the fans what he intends or doesnt intend - not the mushroom treatment that we are beggining to think we are getting at the mo!
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:31
Vis, appreciate what you are trying to do and that is the problem, finding up to date figures that prove one way or another what is the case. It has to be said that there has been such a hike in ticket prices accross the board that most clubs will have seen an increase in their income...butfootball has also been poorly run on the expenses with ludicrous wages being paid.
I don't think our CEO has done anything remarkable in this field...but he has had a lot of luck with our promotion and thatappears to bethe only reason we are showing a profit at present.
It was not, however, what this thread was about...it was the fact that we have paid over the odds for transfers and also have seemed to be very slow at completing them with someone admitting he finds it hard to do....so is he the right person? My feeling is clear....this is not an isolated situation, but seems to have been going on for some time now.
They'd have had to have been promoted to the greed league aswell.
So try Palace and Norwich. And the friends from the east figures for the season they were back down.
Why would they have to have been promoted? The doubling of turnover is excluding parachute payments.
Prove it
Turnover in 2000 = 8m
Turnover in 2005 = 22m
Parachute payment = 7m
Change in turnover excluding parachute payment = 15/8 = 1.875
An 87.5% increase. This really is basic maths y'know....
So the doubling myth has been exposed as Vis spin.
Now there's a shock.
Without me going up the loft how much has my season ticket increased in price in the same timeframe?Edited by: IMAB
Essex Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:38
IMAB, don't expect common sense to prevail.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:39
It was not, however, what this thread was about...it was the fact that we have paid over the odds for transfers and also have seemed to be very slow at completing them with someone admitting he finds it hard to do....so is he the right person? My feeling is clear....this is not an isolated situation, but seems to have been going on for some time now.
I agree with your other points, but in refernce to this; isnt this what Moxey was trying to stop by putting his foot down over the McLeod transfer? That we wont be held to ransom simply because of the preception that we're stinking rich?
ANd comparing us to other clubs, we've probably brought in more players than any other club in the championship. We'd all like a transfer to be wrapped up in a day, but 3 weeks from start to finish (as in the Frankowski deal) isnt that bad.
Think back to the MacNamara deal - he turned down Celtics contract offer on the Friday, and signed for us on the Monday - does Moxey not deserve credit for that?
Essex Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:41
Vis, all joking apart I actually agree with some of what you are saying but you do seem to be selective with certain issues.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:43
They'd have had to have been promoted to the greed league aswell.
So try Palace and Norwich. And the friends from the east figures for the season they were back down.
Why would they have to have been promoted? The doubling of turnover is excluding parachute payments.
Prove it
Turnover in 2000 = 8m
Turnover in 2005 = 22m
Parachute payment = 7m
Change in turnover excluding parachute payment = 15/8 = 1.875
An 87.5% increase. This really is basic maths y'know....
So the doubling myth has been exposed as Vis spin.
Now there's a shock.
Without me going up the loft how much has my season ticket increased in price in the same timeframe?
OK, so 100% isnt 87.5%. Are you saying all my points are invalid? Thats quite pathetic.
And surely the fact that you've continued to buy a season ticket is evidence that the price increases are valid?
If the price increases were unsustainable, why have season ticket numbers remained fairly static over the last 5 years?
Why should Wolves sell 20,000 season tickets at, say 200 quid, when they could sell just as many at 300?
Why should Wolves sell 20,000 season tickets at, say 200 quid, when they could sell just as many at 300?
Cause they don't need the money.
They don't need to pay high wages, it's achieved nothing.
Bill McCai
27-01-2006, 12:47
They'd have had to have been promoted to the greed league aswell.
So try Palace and Norwich. And the friends from the east figures for the season they were back down.
Why would they have to have been promoted? The doubling of turnover is excluding parachute payments.
Prove it
Turnover in 2000 = 8m
Turnover in 2005 = 22m
Parachute payment = 7m
Change in turnover excluding parachute payment = 15/8 = 1.875
An 87.5% increase. This really is basic maths y'know....
So the doubling myth has been exposed as Vis spin.
Now there's a shock.
Without me going up the loft how much has my season ticket increased in price in the same timeframe?
<DIV>
OK, so 100% isnt 87.5%. Are you saying all my points are invalid? Thats quite pathetic.
And surely the fact that you've continued to buy a season ticket is evidence that the price increases are valid?
If the price increases were unsustainable, why have season ticket numbers remained fairly static over the last 5 years?
Why should Wolves sell 20,000 season tickets at, say 200 quid, when they could sell just as many at 300?
</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
I think you'd be better off talking to the wall as far as changing Mr. Angry's stance on Moxey goes!</DIV>Edited by: Bill McCai
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:49
Vis, appreciate what you are trying to do and that is the problem, finding up to date figures that prove one way or another what is the case. It has to be said that there has been such a hike in ticket prices accross the board that most clubs will have seen an increase in their income...butfootball has also been poorly run on the expenses with ludicrous wages being paid.
I don't think our CEO has done anything remarkable in this field...but he has had a lot of luck with our promotion and thatappears to bethe only reason we are showing a profit at present.
It was not, however, what this thread was about...it was the fact that we have paid over the odds for transfers and also have seemed to be very slow at completing them with someone admitting he finds it hard to do....so is he the right person? My feeling is clear....this is not an isolated situation, but seems to have been going on for some time now.
SOA - I have been lambasted by people on here and told that I spout rubbish - but at last someone else sees what I have tried to say for donkeys - Jez Moxey is a limited in business chancer who takes care of Wolves because the Haywards pay him to "front" the business - average in every respect of what he does!
To use Essex Wolfs expression - the "inept" one is Moxey and in answer to your question NO Moxey is not right for Wolves
Because of his lack of positive attitude- talks down at people- business friends of mine declined to invest into a small sponsorship deal - because of Moxey's attitude- pure ignorant and arrogant man - who the year I was talking to him wore the same green suit on every occassion - If he did that to my colleagues - how many other people has he treated in a similar fashion? No flaming wonder Wolves cant attract investors to the club!
Again, I will say this, If Wolves dont make the play offs and the great cull on players wages etc comes about - I hope we do get promoted before anyone starts spouting - i hope we all see Mr Moxey as the first in line for taking a pay cut for failure to deliver - afterall he interviewed Hoddle and appointed him did'nt he?Edited by: Notty Wolf
<DIV>
I think you'd be better off talking to the wall as far as changing Mr. Angry's stance on Moxey goes!</DIV>
Your quite right Pony boy, lying about Moxey in an attempt to disguise his poor performance, is a waste of time.
Bill McCai
27-01-2006, 12:52
What have you got against My Little Pony? Stirring up some long gone memories or something?? If you want to tell us anything just go ahead…….
What have you got against My Little Pony? Stirring up some long gone memories or something?? If you want to tell us anything just go ahead…….
I've nothing against your little pony, everyone needs a hobby. If thats what you like to do in your spare time it's not hurting anyone is it Pony boy?
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:54
It was not, however, what this thread was about...it was the fact that we have paid over the odds for transfers and also have seemed to be very slow at completing them with someone admitting he finds it hard to do....so is he the right person? My feeling is clear....this is not an isolated situation, but seems to have been going on for some time now.
I agree with your other points, but in refernce to this; isnt this what Moxey was trying to stop by putting his foot down over the McLeod transfer? That we wont be held to ransom simply because of the preception that we're stinking rich?
ANd comparing us to other clubs, we've probably brought in more players than any other club in the championship. We'd all like a transfer to be wrapped up in a day, but 3 weeks from start to finish (as in the Frankowski deal) isnt that bad.
Think back to the MacNamara deal - he turned down Celtics contract offer on the Friday, and signed for us on the Monday - does Moxey not deserve credit for that?
Vis, I do give him credit - I did on the MacNamara deal and the Camara deal and the Ackinbiyi sale...I have said many times that when it comes to selling he seems to be reasonable, but it is the negotiations with regard to transfers in and also contracts that have bothered me...if he is so tough why have we got such high wage earners at the club....? The two things do not seem to follow.
Essex Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:56
I say this arguing stuff is all jolly good. Seems Vis has the ability to stir things up with lots of posters.smileys/smiley2.gif
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 12:58
Why should Wolves sell 20,000 season tickets at, say 200 quid, when they could sell just as many at 300?
Cause they don't need the money.
They don't need to pay high wages, it's achieved nothing.
We could put the extra 2m quid a year in the bank, ready for if/when we go up.....
Bill McCai
27-01-2006, 12:58
What have you got against My Little Pony? Stirring up some long gone memories or something?? If you want to tell us anything just go ahead…….
I've nothing against your little pony, everyone needs a hobby. If thats what you like to do in your spare time it's not hurting anyone is it Pony boy?
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>smileys/smiley4.gif</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
Exactly! <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Are you flirting with me?smileys/smiley17.gif</DIV>
They'd have had to have been promoted to the greed league aswell.
So try Palace and Norwich. And the friends from the east figures for the season they were back down.
Why would they have to have been promoted? The doubling of turnover is excluding parachute payments.
Prove it
Turnover in 2000 = 8m
Turnover in 2005 = 22m
Parachute payment = 7m
Change in turnover excluding parachute payment = 15/8 = 1.875
An 87.5% increase. This really is basic maths y'know....
So the doubling myth has been exposed as Vis spin.
Now there's a shock.
Without me going up the loft how much has my season ticket increased in price in the same timeframe?
OK, so 100% isnt 87.5%. Are you saying all my points are invalid? Thats quite pathetic.
And surely the fact that you've continued to buy a season ticket is evidence that the price increases are valid?
If the price increases were unsustainable, why have season ticket numbers remained fairly static over the last 5 years?
Why should Wolves sell 20,000 season tickets at, say 200 quid, when they could sell just as many at 300?
Found my tickets.
2001 was £240
2002 was £260
my 2000 has no price so I'm guessing it was £220
2005 was £414 I think (I paid early bird and the price has gone off the website, so some-one else may have paid full price and know)
That makes an 88% price rise, fantastic skills from Jez then. Raise the prices really skilful work. Lets see how his price rise is taken up next year.
I say this arguing stuff is all jolly good. Seems Vis has the ability to stir things up with lots of posters.smileys/smiley2.gif
Proves he can argue a point without insults though.
Bill McCai
27-01-2006, 13:00
<DIV>I say this arguing stuff is all jolly good. Seems Vis has the ability to stir things up with lots of posters.smileys/smiley2.gif </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
Give it a rest spanner.
</DIV>
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 13:00
It was not, however, what this thread was about...it was the fact that we have paid over the odds for transfers and also have seemed to be very slow at completing them with someone admitting he finds it hard to do....so is he the right person? My feeling is clear....this is not an isolated situation, but seems to have been going on for some time now.
I agree with your other points, but in refernce to this; isnt this what Moxey was trying to stop by putting his foot down over the McLeod transfer? That we wont be held to ransom simply because of the preception that we're stinking rich?
ANd comparing us to other clubs, we've probably brought in more players than any other club in the championship. We'd all like a transfer to be wrapped up in a day, but 3 weeks from start to finish (as in the Frankowski deal) isnt that bad.
Think back to the MacNamara deal - he turned down Celtics contract offer on the Friday, and signed for us on the Monday - does Moxey not deserve credit for that?
Vis, I do give him credit - I did on the MacNamara deal and the Camara deal and the Ackinbiyi sale...I have said many times that when it comes to selling he seems to be reasonable, but it is the negotiations with regard to transfers in and also contracts that have bothered me...if he is so tough why have we got such high wage earners at the club....? The two things do not seem to follow.
The Macnamara deal was a transfer in ;)
Is our wage bill too high? I've posted previously that its been on a downward trend (as a proportion of income) for the last 5 years, and with 5m quids woirth of wages dissapearing in the summer that trend will only continue. Isnt that wat good financial management is all about? Making sure that wages are a sensible proportion of income, and that we only spend what we can afford?
Why should Wolves sell 20,000 season tickets at, say 200 quid, when they could sell just as many at 300?
Cause they don't need the money.
They don't need to pay high wages, it's achieved nothing.
We could put the extra 2m quid a year in the bank, ready for if/when we go up.....
So you think Moxey is doing a bad job and wasting our chances if we go up.
Big Saft Kid
27-01-2006, 13:03
..."International transfers are, generally speaking, more complicated than domestic ones but this deal has been particularly torturous.
I have been working on this constantly since December 28 and I am pleased we have finally got the man Glenn wanted."
TORTUROUS!!!!!...
Didn't he mean 'tortuous', rather than 'torturous'?
What have you got against My Little Pony? Stirring up some long gone memories or something?? If you want to tell us anything just go ahead…….
I've nothing against your little pony, everyone needs a hobby. If thats what you like to do in your spare time it's not hurting anyone is it Pony boy?
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>smileys/smiley4.gif</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
Exactly! <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P>
Are you flirting with me?smileys/smiley17.gif<O:P></O:P></DIV>
No. You stood me up lasttime.smileys/smiley7.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 13:06
[
I agree with your other points, but in refernce to this; isnt this what Moxey was trying to stop by putting his foot down over the McLeod transfer? That we wont be held to ransom simply because of the preception that we're stinking rich?
ANd comparing us to other clubs, we've probably brought in more players than any other club in the championship. We'd all like a transfer to be wrapped up in a day, but 3 weeks from start to finish (as in the Frankowski deal) isnt that bad.
Think back to the MacNamara deal - he turned down Celtics contract offer on the Friday, and signed for us on the Monday - does Moxey not deserve credit for that?
Vis the comparison between the Pole and McLeod's deals I find very conflicting. First with McLeod we had agreed the fee but it was only when they agreed that we changed our mind. So I dont see this as not letting ourselves be overpriced. However the transfer for Pole does show we caved in after many bids were turned down. There was also no signs that anyone else was bidding and the final price that was being quoted then went up to include add ons. If we were to sell Frank tomorrow would we get our money back?
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 13:07
</font>What have you got against My Little Pony? Stirring up some long gone memories or something?? If you want to tell us anything just go ahead…….</font>
I've nothing against your little pony, everyone needs a hobby. If thats what you like to do in your spare time it's not hurting anyone is it Pony boy?
<div> </div>
<div></div>
<div>smileys/smiley4.gif</div>
<div></div>
<div>
Exactly! </font></font></span>
Are you flirting with me?smileys/smiley17.gif</font></font></span></div>
No. You stood me up lasttime.smileys/smiley7.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
You have just been listening to a party political broadcast on behalf of the Liberal Democratic Party.smileys/smiley16.gif
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 13:09
I think Jack is less involved in the running of the club than you believe.
And no, that doesn't mean that he doesn't care anymore.
I never said the running of the club but the decisions that is different. Also I have never accused him of not caring and if anything if you have read any of my posts on this I accuse him too much of caring and using his heart not his head.
Essex Wolf
27-01-2006, 13:16
I say this arguing stuff is all jolly good. Seems Vis has the ability to stir things up with lots of posters.smileys/smiley2.gif
Proves he can argue a point without insults though.
Oh well said Mutchy, so you advocate him calling people a retard then do you?smileys/smiley5.gif
A very strange comment for a moderator because if you are prepared to let that sort of comment go, as the mods did, you leave the board wide open for even more insults and abuse.
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 13:16
[
Essex - I have said this before, but the season we were in the Prem - SJH - the old man that people refer to did a multi million pound deal to rent out acres of his land in Scotland to a wind power company and yes, if you own a company you should over see it if you want to get the results you desire - otherwise - hire someone and hope they will do it for you! at a price!
Exactamondosmileys/smiley4.gifsmileys/smiley4.gif His judgement of hiring the right people for this club leaves a lot to be desired.
As for the deal with the wind company it looks as if he is using them for the comments we hear coming out of the club.
That week of the SOA Challenge sure did fly by quickly! smileys/smiley6.gif
That week of the SOA Challenge sure did fly by quickly! smileys/smiley6.gif
Shame Moxeys tenure at the Wolves hasn't
peckhamwolf
27-01-2006, 14:35
I doubt the appointment of Hoddle was souly down to Moxey, and even so you can't blame Moxey for appointing an ex international Manager with proven track record, because he hasn't lived up to his expectations.
Oh yes I can. Moxey's "proven ex-international manager with a proven track record" is my "un-proven Championship manager with a very mixed track record who blew £40m in 2 years at Spurs and has only ever won a play-off final trophy and couldn't get a job for love or money before we offered in 500k for 6 months work".
$
Blimey you make even me look like an optimist.
scottishwolf II
27-01-2006, 14:45
Slagged off when we don't buy / slagged off when we do. Oh, the joy of MM.
So have you been happy with the way we conduct our transfers
in? Just because we managed to sort out 2 new transfers (plus 3
re-signs, before anyone starts) in this window does not mean we are
some sort of superstars....
Jury is out yet on Gyepes, but may be a good one...but on the
opposite side we have paid over the odds on plenty....and usually after
spending an age sorting them out, as well as missing out on a fair few
too.
gyepes - done well so far. looks a bargain
we probably have paid over the odds before, but this season it looks
for the most part like we are negotiating pretty well. we shall have to
see how franky pans out to make sure that is true of course
as to 5 or even 2 deals not making us superstars. when we did the maths
earlier this week, the average number of signings for a chmpionship
club stood at 0.66r, making us either 1.33r players ahead or 4.33r
recurring players ahead depending on how we are classifying things.
thats pretty good isnt it in terms of the facts?
Bumbamuffin
27-01-2006, 14:55
I say this arguing stuff is all jolly good. Seems Vis has the ability to stir things up with lots of posters.smileys/smiley2.gif
Such is the nonsense he's posting on this thread,he must be a wind up merchant.
Moxey's 'plan' has been largely based on the loyalty of the support in accepting price rise upon price rise even though what they are paying for shows no increase in quality.He seems totally unable to influence thefortunes of the club for the better and his legacy is merely we are paying more for the privelege of watching the same old dross in the same old division.
Problem is Jez my boy is that eventually even us gullible Wolves fans catch on.As IMAB says lets see the take up next season of the latest model of 'bargain' season tickets.Then we will truly see JM's masterplan- a struggling Division 2 side ina half empty stadium as far away from the P/L as when he took over.
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
Stop raising prices to cover a ludicrous not required wage bill.
Ok
Kris Kringle
27-01-2006, 14:59
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
Grow an impressive beard?
Succesfully complete a weight watchers programme?
Look good in a suit?
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:00
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
Stop raising prices to cover a ludicrous not required wage bill.
Ok
He raises prices because he can, as evidenced by the fact that he still sells as many season tickets.
If I sell you a CD for 20 quid, and then a month later ask you if you want to buy another, only this time its 30 quid, and you agree, then who's fault is that? Mine, for simply making the most of what i have, or yours?
Or is it neither, simply that i've given you something at a price i'm prepared to accept and you are willing to pay?
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 15:01
gyepes - done well so far. looks a bargain
we probably have paid over the odds before, but this season it looks
for the most part like we are negotiating pretty well. we shall have to
see how franky pans out to make sure that is true of course
But how do we know we haven't. All these loans could have been expensive and the salaries could be higher than we need to pay. Certainly I would say that in today's climate we have overpaid for this Polish striker.
He raises prices because he can, as evidenced by the fact that he still sells as many season tickets.
So if he doesn't next year, you would agree he is a failure?
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
Stop raising prices to cover a ludicrous not required wage bill.
Ok
Are our players going to play for peanuts then?
In what way is our wage bill ludicrous and in what way is it not needed?
scottishwolf II
27-01-2006, 15:07
gyepes - done well so far. looks a bargain
we probably have paid over the odds before, but this season it looks
for the most part like we are negotiating pretty well. we shall have to
see how franky pans out to make sure that is true of course
But how do we know we haven't. All these loans could
have been expensive and the salaries could be higher than we need to
pay. Certainly I would say that in today's climate we have overpaid for
this Polish striker.
ok OGW, so i say we havent paid over the odds and its wrong, but SOA
says we have paid over the odds and its correct? interesting debating
method
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:08
And as for the wages/turnover argument;
Lets set aside the parachute payment.
in 2000:
Turnover: 10,590
Wages: 8,734
In 2004:
Turnover: 17,622
Wages: 13,781
Now, I'm going to make some educated guesses as to this years figures:
in 2005:
Turnover: 17,000 (slight drop, due to supporter apathy = lower gates)
Wages: 10,000 (big earners leaving in the summer).
SO its not the case that he's had to raise income to meet wages payments:
2000: 82%
2004: 78%
2005(est):58%
Surely if Moxey was raising prices to pay wages that percentage should remain steady, rather than dropping?
Its all well and good coming up with fanciful theories as to Moxey's motivations and intentions, but if they're not backed up by any evidence then they're just theories....
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:09
He raises prices because he can, as evidenced by the fact that he still sells as many season tickets.
So if he doesn't next year, you would agree he is a failure?
If he doesnt raise prices then it will presumably because he realises that it will lead to a drop in revenue. Tickets, like any other commodity have a n optimum value. Increasing the price above that is counter productive.
Bumbamuffin
27-01-2006, 15:10
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
Stop raising prices to cover a ludicrous not required wage bill.
Ok
He raises prices because he can, as evidenced by the fact that he still sells as many season tickets.
If I sell you a CD for 20 quid, and then a month later ask you if you want to buy another, only this time its 30 quid, and you agree, then who's fault is that? Mine, for simply making the most of what i have, or yours?
Or is it neither, simply that i've given you something at a price i'm prepared to accept and you are willing to pay?
So what happens to his approach when people stop buying in numbers finally sick of paying higher and higher prices for the same(drab) 'product'?
He's got nothing else to offer so what will happen is severe cost cutting at team level. Players such a Lescott willdoubtless be sold becausehe has failed at his job and people have voted on how successful old Jez has been with their feet.
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
Stop raising prices to cover a ludicrous not required wage bill.
Ok
Are our players going to play for peanuts then?
In what way is our wage bill ludicrous and in what way is it not needed?
Have you not seen the league table, are any of the teams above us paying over £19m a year?
If not then we are paying out too much in wages as we can achieve better by spending less as evidenced by Reading, Sheff Utd, probably Leeds, Preston, Watford etc.
Therefore a £19m wage bill was not needed this season, and I think £19m a year is ludicrous when we know Ipswich only pay out £6m.
Its all well and good coming up with fanciful theories as to Moxey's motivations and intentions, but if they're not backed up by any evidence then they're just theories....
Like the theory that his great financial management has raised turnover by 87% when ticket prices have risen 88% in the same timeframe?
He raises prices because he can, as evidenced by the fact that he still sells as many season tickets.
So if he doesn't next year, you would agree he is a failure?
If he doesnt raise prices then it will presumably because he realises that it will lead to a drop in revenue. Tickets, like any other commodity have a n optimum value. Increasing the price above that is counter productive.
If he sells less tickets you will agree he is a failure, unless he holds the prices at this years level?
Ipswich such a fantastic example of where we want to be
smileys/smiley32.gif
Bumbamuffin
27-01-2006, 15:15
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
Stop raising prices to cover a ludicrous not required wage bill.
Ok
Are our players going to play for peanuts then?
In what way is our wage bill ludicrous and in what way is it not needed?
Have you not seen the league table, are any of the teams above us paying over £19m a year?
If not then we are paying out too much in wages as we can achieve better by spending less as evidenced by Reading, Sheff Utd, probably Leeds, Preston, Watford etc.
Therefore a £19m wage bill was not needed this season, and I think £19m a year is ludicrous when we know Ipswich only pay out £6m.
Yes,and who brought us to this very position? It's quite ironic that JM continues tocomment onfinancial constraints due to the huge wage bill(and also uses it to justify large rises in S/ticket prices)when he holds almost total responsibility for the negotiating of this wage bill in the 1st place.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:16
Its all well and good coming up with fanciful theories as to Moxey's motivations and intentions, but if they're not backed up by any evidence then they're just theories....
Like the theory that his great financial management has raised turnover by 87% when ticket prices have risen 88% in the same timeframe?
I'm not sure what your point is. Moxey has increased revenue, primarily through increasing ticket prices - prices that supporters have willingly paid out, thus validating the rise. Whats the problem with that?
2000: 82%
2004: 78%
The real figures show 4% difference in 4 years so he has had to keep raising prices to fund that high %age.
I'm glad we agree again
I'm not sure what your point is. Moxey has increased revenue, primarily through increasing ticket prices - prices that supporters have willingly paid out, thus validating the rise. Whats the problem with that?
That any $$$$$$$wit could have done that. Therefore coupled with the failure that high wage policy has been, there is no reason to retain his services.
Ipswich such a fantastic example of where we want to be
smileys/smiley32.gif
Thats where we are heading.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:20
2000: 82%
2004: 78%
The real figures show 4% difference in 4 years so he has had to keep raising prices to fund that high %age.
I'm glad we agree again
I'm not sure what point your making.
The club have reduced the wage bill as a proportion of income year on year.
High wages arent a problem - the club has probably the highest income in the divison and can afford it. Its only when wages become a large proportion of income that we should be worried.
As an example, Manchester Uniteds wage bill is MUCH bigger than ours - should they start selling players to reduce it, or should they be not worried as they have the income to cover it?
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:22
I'm not sure what your point is. Moxey has increased revenue, primarily through increasing ticket prices - prices that supporters have willingly paid out, thus validating the rise. Whats the problem with that?
That any $$$$$$$wit could have done that. Therefore coupled with the failure that high wage policy has been, there is no reason to retain his services.
If its so easy, why dont YOU become CEO of wolves? I'm sure the wage is higher than what Branson's paying you.
2000: 82%
2004: 78%
The real figures show 4% difference in 4 years so he has had to keep raising prices to fund that high %age.
I'm glad we agree again
I'm not sure what point your making.
The club have reduced the wage bill as a proportion of income year on year.
High wages arent a problem - the club has probably the highest income in the divison and can afford it. Its only when wages become a large proportion of income that we should be worried.
By 4 % as turnover has risen by massive ticket rises.
So we have a much larger wage bill, and it has achieved nothing.
It is wasting money on a huge scale, yet you seem to support this.
Oldgold Wolfcub
27-01-2006, 15:23
gyepes - done well so far. looks a bargain
we probably have paid over the odds before, but this season it looks
for the most part like we are negotiating pretty well. we shall have to
see how franky pans out to make sure that is true of course
But how do we know we haven't. All these loans could
have been expensive and the salaries could be higher than we need to
pay. Certainly I would say that in today's climate we have overpaid for
this Polish striker.
ok OGW, so i say we havent paid over the odds and its wrong, but SOA
says we have paid over the odds and its correct? interesting debating
method
I dont know I am just chewing the cud with you. You see at the end of the day Frankoffski may turn out to be a brilliant signing but I think he is overpriced. Now in life we all overpay at some time for something we really want but it is still overpriced. With the loan signings we have no clue what we paid. But we do have a history of paying more than most others would.
I'm not sure what your point is. Moxey has increased revenue, primarily through increasing ticket prices - prices that supporters have willingly paid out, thus validating the rise. Whats the problem with that?
That any $$$$$$$wit could have done that. Therefore coupled with the failure that high wage policy has been, there is no reason to retain his services.
If its so easy, why dont YOU become CEO of wolves? I'm sure the wage is higher than what Branson's paying you.
I don't work for Branson.
Does anything sink in with you?
I'm not sure what your point is. Moxey has increased revenue, primarily through increasing ticket prices - prices that supporters have willingly paid out, thus validating the rise. Whats the problem with that?
That any $$$$$$$wit could have done that. Therefore coupled with the failure that high wage policy has been, there is no reason to retain his services.
Or any $$$$$$$wit would of done that. So theres no reason to replace him.
I'm not sure what your point is. Moxey has increased revenue, primarily through increasing ticket prices - prices that supporters have willingly paid out, thus validating the rise. Whats the problem with that?
That any $$$$$$$wit could have done that. Therefore coupled with the failure that high wage policy has been, there is no reason to retain his services.
Or any $$$$$$$wit would of done that. So theres no reason to replace him.
Yes 5 more years of high wages and failure please, some cocks love it.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:26
2000: 82%
2004: 78%
The real figures show 4% difference in 4 years so he has had to keep raising prices to fund that high %age.
I'm glad we agree again
I'm not sure what point your making.
The club have reduced the wage bill as a proportion of income year on year.
High wages arent a problem - the club has probably the highest income in the divison and can afford it. Its only when wages become a large proportion of income that we should be worried.
By 4 % as turnover has risen by massive ticket rises.
So we have a much larger wage bill, and it has achieved nothing.
It is wasting money on a huge scale, yet you seem to support this.
If it is a waste, then surely that is because the money has been spent on players who are not good enough. Is that Moxey's fault?
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:27
I'm not sure what your point is. Moxey has increased revenue, primarily through increasing ticket prices - prices that supporters have willingly paid out, thus validating the rise. Whats the problem with that?
That any $$$$$$$wit could have done that. Therefore coupled with the failure that high wage policy has been, there is no reason to retain his services.
Or any $$$$$$$wit would of done that. So theres no reason to replace him.
Yes 5 more years of high wages and failure please, some cocks love it.
I'm not sure that abusing people will help you get your point across.
If it is a waste, then surely that is because the money has been spent on players who are not good enough. Is that Moxey's fault?
It a waste because it's a policy that has consistantly failed yet each incoming manager (Jones and Hoddle) has been allowed to continue it.
So yes it's Moxeys fault.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 15:33
So instead of the club earning about 12m quid a year from ticket sales, we should choose to earn less, and sack players in order to fund it?
And then impose a needlessly low wage ceiling, limiting our ability to buy players, because we choose to not maximise our revenue from ticket sales?
So instead of the club earning about 12m quid a year from ticket sales, we should choose to earn less, and sack players in order to fund it?
And then impose a needlessly low wage ceiling, limiting our ability to buy players, because we choose to not maximise our revenue from ticket sales?
Yes.
Only it would never work would it, oh hang on thats exactly what West Brom did, but lets ignore facts.
Notty Wolf
27-01-2006, 16:32
It a waste because it's a policy that has consistantly failed yet each incoming manager (Jones and Hoddle) has been allowed to continue it.
So yes it's Moxeys fault.
I must agree IMAB that this policy of paying higher wages regardless of what division we are in hasnt served Wolves well - Imv it attracts hangers on who are in most cases what we call "journeymen"
I think that the squad doesnt need to have so many high earners and could do well by having a smaller skeleton of key players who earn more because they are a better quality and a selection of "wannabes" who are from our youth and/or lower league teams
Although I've no experience of managing a real team - nearest i got so far was a youth club team for charity - i guess the skill of a good manager is to mix and match a "blend" of players who can work together efficiently - not a bunch of has beens who look clueless every other week!
Moxey is supposedly the man at the helm - So I would agree the buck stops with him!
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 16:35
So instead of the club earning about 12m quid a year from ticket sales, we should choose to earn less, and sack players in order to fund it?
And then impose a needlessly low wage ceiling, limiting our ability to buy players, because we choose to not maximise our revenue from ticket sales?
Yes.
Only it would never work would it, oh hang on thats exactly what West Brom did, but lets ignore facts.
Albion season ticket prices are higher than ours.....
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 16:45
From IMAB's figures:
2000 was £220
2001 was £240
2002 was £260
2005 was £414
Average Albion season ticket prices (taken as an average of the 4 prices...):2001 was 279 ( 16% higher than wolves )
2002 was 301 ( 16% higher than wolves )
2005 was 489. ( 18% higher than wolves )
Edited by: Visage Wolf
So instead of the club earning about 12m quid a year from ticket sales, we should choose to earn less, and sack players in order to fund it?
And then impose a needlessly low wage ceiling, limiting our ability to buy players, because we choose to not maximise our revenue from ticket sales?
Yes.
Only it would never work would it, oh hang on thats exactly what West Brom did, but lets ignore facts.
Albion season ticket prices are higher than ours.....
They aren't in our league, they are miles ahead of us due to not following the Jez model.
Last time they were in this league they were sensible with wages and prices, and p!$*ed over our attempts to get back up.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 16:51
So instead of the club earning about 12m quid a year from ticket sales, we should choose to earn less, and sack players in order to fund it?
And then impose a needlessly low wage ceiling, limiting our ability to buy players, because we choose to not maximise our revenue from ticket sales?
Yes.
Only it would never work would it, oh hang on thats exactly what West Brom did, but lets ignore facts.
Albion season ticket prices are higher than ours.....
They aren't in our league, they are miles ahead of us due to not following the Jez model.
Last time they were in this league they were sensible with wages and prices, and p!$*ed over our attempts to get back up.
Even before they went up they were higher than ours.
But as you say, 'lets ignore facts'.....
So instead of the club earning about 12m quid a year from ticket sales, we should choose to earn less, and sack players in order to fund it?
And then impose a needlessly low wage ceiling, limiting our ability to buy players, because we choose to not maximise our revenue from ticket sales?
Yes.
Only it would never work would it, oh hang on thats exactly what West Brom did, but lets ignore facts.
Albion season ticket prices are higher than ours.....
They aren't in our league, they are miles ahead of us due to not following the Jez model.
Last time they were in this league they were sensible with wages and prices, and p!$*ed over our attempts to get back up.
Even before they went up they were higher than ours.
But as you say, 'lets ignore facts'.....
Payed less than I pay now, but lets ignore facts
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 17:01
I've got better things to do than this. I'm off to the boozer.
I've got better things to do than this. I'm off to the boozer.
Not like you'll be using the money to go to a game, so drink yourself away.
scottishwolf II
27-01-2006, 17:05
that doesnt make any real sense IMAB. your point basically means if you
take no account of inflation at all? the extension of your point is we
should be paying the same price we were paying in the second tier of
football in 1932
Hatch End Wolf
27-01-2006, 17:11
Thank Hod he's gone, although he may be a little young to be out on his own!
Anyone know why VisageMoxey loves Jezza so much? He gets quite demented when anyone critisises his hero. There must be something more toJez than the fat, overpaid, spinmeister he appears to most of us. Then again, love is blind!
that doesnt make any real sense IMAB. your point basically means if you take no account of inflation at all? the extension of your point is we should be paying the same price we were paying in the second tier of football in 1932
No sense to you you mean.
Many other people grasp the simple concept.
1: We are not a successful club
2: we pay big wages.
Therefore we don't need to as we could underachieve on a much smaller budget.
There is no requirement for ticket prices to be so high as they are only so high to pay the huge wages we deon't need.
Our policy of charging high to enable us to pay big wages is down to Moxey as CEO.
The policy has failed,so he has failed.
I want him sacked and a new approach tried.
No matter how much you defend him he is a failure.
Del Woppio
27-01-2006, 17:22
no matter how much you rant,EvilJez has made this club a self-sufficient business. We are no longer going cap in hand to an old man every year. Our wage percentage is excellent. Our tickets are expensive, yes, but so are they for football in general, not just at Wolves. If we were to reduce the wages any more than will be done naturally in the summer we would noot have a squad left.
If we were to reduce the wages any more than will be done naturally in the summer we would noot have a squad left.
smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
Biggest laugh of the day!
All the clubs with no squads that are above us in the league!
From IMAB's figures:
2000 was £220
2001 was £240
2002 was £260
2005 was £414
Average Albion season ticket prices (taken as an average of the 4 prices...):
2001 was 279 ( 16% higher than wolves )
2002 was 301 ( 16% higher than wolves )
2005 was 489. ( 18% higher than wolves )
Spin, spin , spin.
By factoring in the main stands you can push up the friends from the east prices.
My ticket's were in the Southbank
Del Woppio
27-01-2006, 17:44
If we were to reduce the wages any more than will be done naturally in the summer we would noot have a squad left.
smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
Biggest laugh of the day!
All the clubs with no squads that are above us in the league!
look at the players out of contract in the summer...
Kennedy
Anderton
Ganea
Miller
Jones
Postma
Ross
Ince
Cameron
Rosa
N'dah
With those gone, it would leave us with a squad of 17. including 4 goalkeepers. Of those above, 4 may have their contracts extended, giving us a squad of 21 players, including 5 goalkeepers. Not much of a squad...
So where else are we going to trim the wage bill bill to pay for lower ticket prices??
scottishwolf II
27-01-2006, 17:48
that doesnt make any real sense
IMAB. your point basically means if you take no account of inflation at
all? the extension of your point is we should be paying the same price
we were paying in the second tier of football in 1932
No sense to you you mean.
Many other people grasp the simple concept.
1: We are not a successful club
2: we pay big wages.
Therefore we don't need to as we could underachieve on a much smaller budget.
There is no requirement for ticket prices to be so high as they are only so high to pay the huge wages we deon't need.
Our policy of charging high to enable us to pay big wages is down to Moxey as CEO.
The policy has failed,so he has failed.
I want him sacked and a new approach tried.
No matter how much you defend him he is a failure.
once again IMAB, you are (deliberatly?) confusing me saying one of your
points doesn't make any sense with me saying moxey is great. these are
actually two quite different things
i have said before read my posts (go on all of them) and tell me where
i have said that? (bar the camara sale where i gave him a thumbs up)
your point and i was only talking about the last one not your whole argument didnt make sense.
So where else are we going to trim the wage bill bill to pay for lower ticket prices??
The cockney scum boy and fat w!$*er Jez can go and be replaced by much cheaper replacements.
Ticket prices can stay at this years prices (I know this wont effect VW as he doesn't go), and we can take it from there.
Del Woppio
27-01-2006, 17:55
cheaper alternatives like who? Wouldn't the 2 compensation packages negate the difference in expenditure though?
I don't think the ticket price rise will be above inlation this year, because of the amount of players leaving.
scottishwolf II
27-01-2006, 18:02
hoddle is on a 12month rolling contract - easy for us to give him the flick, and easy on the wallet i believe
Del Woppio
27-01-2006, 18:07
but he's on £500k pa
Even if he accepted £300k, we'd have to pay the new manager National Minimum Wage to make a worthwhile saving....
Essex Wolf
27-01-2006, 18:26
I say this arguing stuff is all jolly good. Seems Vis has the ability to stir things up with lots of posters.smileys/smiley2.gif
Such is the nonsense he's posting on this thread,he must be a wind up merchant.
Nothing new though.
Hatch End Wolf
27-01-2006, 18:54
He hasn't come back yet.......perhaps he's got lost.......we can only hope!
I don't think the ticket price rise will be above inlation this year, because of the amount of players leaving.
smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
Even bigger than last time
gaz kford
27-01-2006, 19:31
smileys/smiley7.gifDon't for get he put stoke where their are now !!
SOA Wolf
27-01-2006, 19:53
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
How about allowing a proper board to be set up with at least one person with football expertise and enough people to ensure that the club's decisions are not effectively left to one man and his whims?
We may get someone who negotiate reasonable wages for the players we have and will pay a more realistic price for players...
By the way Vis, sticking an average price for the ground for the Albion against the cheapest price in the ground for us as a comparison does not do you justice, you are capable of better misleading stats than that.
By the way Vis, sticking an average price for the ground for the Albion against the cheapest price in the ground for us as a comparison does not do you justice, you are capable of better misleading stats than that.
No he isn't.
Allow himself to be seen for what he is, an apologist for a failing club.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 20:11
IMAB, SOA, anybody else who hates Moxey, wants him out, thinks somebody can do the Job better.
Answer this question:
If Moxey walks out tomorrow what would his replacement do that Moxey hasn't been able to, or has done poorly?
How about allowing a proper board to be set up with at least one
person with football expertise and enough people to ensure that the
club's decisions are not effectively left to one man and his whims?
We may get someone who negotiate reasonable wages for the players we have and will pay a more realistic price for players...
By the way Vis, sticking an average price for the ground for the
Albion against the cheapest price in the ground for us as a comparison
does not do you justice, you are capable of better misleading stats
than that.
Actually, IMAB didnt say where he sat, so i simply took an average.
Slap the cuffs on, its a fair cop etc.....
Im no Moxey apologist, I just think that he does his job. He messes up
sometimes, but in the main he gets things right. The problems at WOlves
are on the pitch. The real problem with people who have a go at Moxey
is that they miss the REAL person who's $$$$$$$ing up the club.
I think you'll find very few folk having a go at Moxey, who are not also vociferous in critisism of Hoddle.
I want them both out. At the same time, so the next manager is employed under a new way of operating the club, and with new parameters.
BTW, my signature would give you a good idea where I sit, and you could have asked if it's always been that way.
Visage Wolf
27-01-2006, 20:18
From IMAB's figures:
2000 was £220
2001 was £240
2002 was £260
2005 was £414
Average Albion season ticket prices (taken as an average of the 4 prices...):2001 was 279 ( 16% higher than wolves )
2002 was 301 ( 16% higher than wolves )
2005 was 489. ( 18% higher than wolves )
OK...cheapest seats in the ground:
Wolves (assuming IMAB sits in the cheapest seats):
2000 was £220
2001 was £240
2002 was £260
2005 was £414
Albion: (early Bird/Normal)
2001 was 252/266 ( 5%/11% higher than wolves )
2002 was 252 ( 3% lower than wolves )
2005 was 449. ( 8% higher than wolves )
So IMAB...tell me again how albion charge a lot less than wolves?
From IMAB's figures:
2000 was £220
2001 was £240
2002 was £260
2005 was £414
Average Albion season ticket prices (taken as an average of the 4 prices...):2001 was 279 ( 16% higher than wolves )
2002 was 301 ( 16% higher than wolves )
2005 was 489. ( 18% higher than wolves )
OK...cheapest seats in the ground:
Wolves (assuming IMAB sits in the cheapest seats):
2000 was £220
2001 was £240
2002 was £260
2005 was £414
Albion: (early Bird/Normal)
2001 was 252/266 ( 5%/11% higher than wolves )
2002 was 252 ( 3% lower than wolves )
2005 was 449. ( 8% higher than wolves )
So IMAB...tell me again how albion charge a lot less than wolves?
I know you have alot of trouble with the truth but I said
"Payed less than I pay now."
Which is a fact as you proved. Thank you.
Goldwolf
27-01-2006, 23:01
2005 was £414 I think (I paid early bird and the price has gone off the website, so some-one else may have paid full price and know)
The other thing that should be taken into account is that the early bird price for the North and South Banks this season was £345, not £414. Since more than half the fans paid this price, the average price paid will be around £380 for the two ends I guess.
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